Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

[Rix]

Damn, you HR got up to 188 BPM! That's some intense cardio there. Yah, a lot of people have to go up hill wind sprints to those numbers, but riding a high powered ebike in a race gets you there as well. That's outstanding. Very nice write up QR. I am with you, can't be taking the risks we took back in our youth.

 

[Hyena]

Nice write up Brian. Your digs are noted

Do you reckon your HR signals were accurate ? Your resting HR before the race seems a little high too (anticipation perhaps?) but your peak HR is really up there! As we know the old general rule of thumb for max HR being 220-age that makes 188 a bit high for even me, let alone yourself that has a few years on me. Presumably the peak HR was when you were chasing me down and it dropped a little after I burned out and the race would be clearly yours ?
It would have been interesting to compare your performance in the practise where there was no pressure vs the main event.
I didnt notice a huge HR leap when out there ( other than the usual anticipation on the start line) but then my usual HR and fight or flight response is buggered after the radiotherapy to my chest.

Speaking of post race stuff, I just pulled apart both my motors to start work on repairs (new axle for the TC and stator swap for the H40.
Check out the difference between the TC and the H40 stators.
The TC did 10 laps at a time in practise sessions running flat out with sealed side covers and looks like new. The H40 had drilled covered and riding more conservatively thoroughly smoked itself after 7 laps. Both have 40mm wide stators and discounting the slightly deeper slots on the TC, the rest comes down to the extra heat sinking of the solid TC stator. Really impressive and the difference is more pronounced that I'd have thought.

 

[Architectonic]

And how do they compare with the croclones?

 

[Hyena]

I haven't baked one of them yet
I have 2 lots of cro-clones, the 'batshit' motor is crazy fast but has the stamped stator. I've gotten it so hot it melted to solder out of the bullets and when the bike stopped and I wiggled the wires to see see if they were loose a bullet dropped off into the dirt :lol:
The other cro style motor I have here has the solid stator so no doubt it'll be more heat resistant.
On the topic of converted e-scooter motors I'm also going to get another one to trial soon but it's too big for ebike use, it'll go on my madass for street use. It is rated to handle 400A, is around the size of the magic pie but 50mm thick and weighs a whopping 22kg!! The biggest challenge will be finding a controller powerful enough to use it to full potential.

I've just finished editing the first days footage from the Hunter EV festival, I'll upload it tonight so check back tomorrow morning.

 

[Samd]

Awesome data man. Reckon there'd be an easy way to upgrade the tinny stators?

Science FTW.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Nice stuff Jay...very interesting info on the stator differences.
This...

Both have 40mm wide stators and discounting the slightly deeper slots on the TC, the rest comes down to the extra heat sinking of the solid TC stator. Really impressive and the difference is more pronounced that I'd have thought.

Is why I did this:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=56965#p905707

I'm still yet to do more conclusive testing for proof, but riding it regularly for the last month both commuting and bashing around the bush like this has been good. I can safely dump 80+ amps into the motor up hills repeatedly without breaking 80C if it's given a chance to cool in between. The fans don't decrease heat build up much, but rather allow much more rapid cooling when I back off the power, or coast downhill. Previously without the fans (but still with vented side covers) the heat dissipation seemed about 2-3 times slower when backing off the power.

This is also on a repaired motor with 2 strands missing from one phase since they previously shorted to the stator. Details here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55486&start=50#p930558 If anything should mean it gets hotter than a normal HS40xx.

Cheers

 

[Hyena]

Awesome data man. Reckon there'd be an easy way to upgrade the tinny stators?

You could probably replace the stator core with a solid or more fancy one but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort. I may still do my dual air / oil cooled idea one day.
The thing is under normal circumstances and with thermal monitoring the H40s are a really solid performer. Not much chop for racing at silly power levels but you dont need to be a rocket scientist to know that! What I should have done was have a water bottle on the side of the track and stopped mid race to spray the motor down, then continue on :lol:

Interesting use of internal fans CD, I would have thought they'd melt in short order. I suspect when the ambient temp in your neck of the woods isn't around 0 they unfortunately will


Here's the first vid from the EV festival and the first vid of the raptor actually. The sinewave silence is great. Some of frame mounts amplify the noise a little but you get an idea for just how much noise they bike is (isn't) making at 2:37 when you can hear the sound of my hydraulic brakes activating from half a track away!!

[youtube]LvtkUVJgnVc[/youtube]

 

[Allex]

Nice power overtakes Jay, but what happens at 1:10, looked too funny.

 

[Rix]

Nice write up Brian. Your digs are noted

Do you reckon your HR signals were accurate ? Your resting HR before the race seems a little high too (anticipation perhaps?) but your peak HR is really up there! As we know the old general rule of thumb for max HR being 220-age that makes 188 a bit high for even me, let alone yourself that has a few years on me. Presumably the peak HR was when you were chasing me down and it dropped a little after I burned out and the race would be clearly yours ?
It would have been interesting to compare your performance in the practise where there was no pressure vs the main event.
I didnt notice a huge HR leap when out there ( other than the usual anticipation on the start line) but then my usual HR and fight or flight response is buggered after the radiotherapy to my chest.

Speaking of post race stuff, I just pulled apart both my motors to start work on repairs (new axle for the TC and stator swap for the H40.
Check out the difference between the TC and the H40 stators.
The TC did 10 laps at a time in practise sessions running flat out with sealed side covers and looks like new. The H40 had drilled covered and riding more conservatively thoroughly smoked itself after 7 laps. Both have 40mm wide stators and discounting the slightly deeper slots on the TC, the rest comes down to the extra heat sinking of the solid TC stator. Really impressive and the difference is more pronounced that I'd have thought.

Wow, what a huge difference. I think I will get my the TC4080 when they become available with the regular spoke flange. Light weight like the 40xx, more tolerant to higher current like the 54xx, even though not quite as much. I noticed the TC80 you have has 14mmx1.5 pitch axles, like the 54xx. Is crystalyte using the same diameter axle as the 54xx? If not, I will have to contact Tench and have him Tenchalize me an axle.

 

[QuietRush]

Thanks Jay. It's clear from looking at the 2m10s mark when you overtake that you've got some serious power there..lets hope it hangs together for you next year.

I plotted HR last year as well, logged it at http://store.quietrush.com.au/blog/adrenaline-and-biostream-data where the peak HR wasn't as high. It might be giving a false reading, but the sensor is the same. I do get HR that high under full effort when pedalling hard on the MTB - whilst I'm 46 the maxHR calculation of 220-(age) is only a rough guide to help determine training zone HR ranges, other methods also can be considered: http://www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm. Nothing determines maxHR like full scale effort. Same applies to motors I guess, here's hoping my ticker holds up better than your motor! The peak corresponds to either the pre-overtake, overtake or when I pushed harder to create some air gap whilst I had the chance (in case your motor came good). HR during practice would have been low as I only had a t-shirt on with elbow guards, had loaned my other rider my armoured jacket whilst he had a demo ride, so was definitely taking it easy.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Nice vid Jay. If we get more people along next year (myself included potentially) it would be awesome to pool our recording resources for some track level footage.

Interesting use of internal fans CD, I would have thought they'd melt in short order. I suspect when the ambient temp in your neck of the woods isn't around 0 they unfortunately will

No issues so far, and I've pushed the stator up past 110C a couple of times up a long steep hill. Once with the fans running, once without. I think the fans being epoxied to the stator by the plastic shrouds means there is far less thermal conductivity into the fans internals themselves. That, and they are sucking in cool air from one side past one side of the windings, then through the fans, and then out the other side past the other side of the windings. So the fans only ever see half of the total heat being removed...if that's how it works. I'm no fluid dynamics engineer so a few assumptions there.

Cheers

 

[Cowardlyduck]

BTW Jay, you should change your avatar now you don't have that Fighter any more...unless it's a nostalgic notion for how awesome it was and how much you miss it.

 

[Hyena]

Thanks Jay. It's clear from looking at the 2m10s mark when you overtake that you've got some serious power there..lets hope it hangs together for you next year.

Thanks. Yeah it's disappointing I had that random axle issue because the TC80 was solid and as above didn't bat an eyelid at much harder riding during the practice sessions. If you listen to the rear facing footage you can hear it clunk as the axle shifts every time I back off the power.

Nothing determines maxHR like full scale effort.

True, I guess I'm used to assessing older or sick patients so I'm a bit more cautious about ballpark max HR figures (largely when doing cardiopulmonary exercise tests)

Same applies to motors I guess, here's hoping my ticker holds up better than your motor!

If you want a more impressive spectacle then smoke coming out of your chest is just the ticket :lol:
I reckon your ticker will be right, I'd put my money on thousands of years of (recent) human evolution over a hastily thrown together chinese motor made to the cheapest price point :lol:

Nice power overtakes Jay, but what happens at 1:10, looked too funny.

You know 3 people stacked right in front of my that day! I think he was one of the stragglers coming back from the school kids division.

CD, yeah pooling footage would be good. Quietrush will have the different perspective for the main race which I'm yet to edit but the more the merrier. Likewise it'd be good to have more people on the field. Being the fastest is all well and good but when you zip straight to the front of the back it makes the race less interesting when you dont have other bikes to chase down.
And yes, I guess a new avatar is in order. The question is do I go with the new Hyena logo or a picture of the beast ?
I know I'm not in a hurry to wheelie this one again after last time! Did I mention it turns out I actually have a minor fracture of one of my lower vertebrae ? No wonder it's still giving me grief 2 weeks later...

 

[Hyena]

Avatar changed for the duck
Also in keeping with documenting my injuries here's my fractured lumbar spine.
Introducing the new 12kw Raptor from Hyena Industries - AKA, "The Back Breaker"
I need to find a better way to do my R&D, my bike continues to write cheques my body can't cash... :lol:

 

[pendragon8000]

Is it just me or does that look sickeningly bad?

How's this? I stuffed my back this morning taking off my back pack in class at tafe. Bloody massive text books grrr.!

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Avatar changed for the duck

Nice...now I'm just jealous of those forks...I missed the boat when they were $400.

Also in keeping with documenting my injuries here's my fractured lumbar spine.
Introducing the new 12kw Raptor from Hyena Industries - AKA, "The Back Breaker"
I need to find a better way to do my R&D, my bike continues to write cheques my body can't cash... :lol:

Ouch! What ever you do...don't try riding on a trampoline...it doesn't help. I know from experience. :lol:

Cheers

 

[Hyena]

Is it just me or does that look sickeningly bad?

Spinal injuries are always scary. If I knew this earlier I wouldn't have raced last weekend. As it was I had trouble walking but if I had have come off I would have been in REAL trouble.

How's this? I stuffed my back this morning taking off my back pack in class at tafe. Bloody massive text books grrr.!

Ouch. Why are we still lugging heavy text books in this day and age ? I guess there's still something to be said for pictures and paper in your hands but I would have thought most stuff would be available electronically now and you could just carry around a tablet. I've had a bad back ever since I threw it out trying to lift a treadmill out of the back of a car once. It was fairly heavy and I had back straight and my knees bent but something just went snap as I went to lift it and it's never been the same since. That said this fracture is not in the expected place for the sort of fall I had so I'm off to do some other tests and bone mineral density scans to see what's going on. I've broken a lot of bones over the years, most from pretty trivial crashes
Maybe I just need to have a spoon of cement with my cereal every morning

Nice...now I'm just jealous of those forks...I missed the boat when they were $400.

If there's alot of interest in them for the raptor frames I may get a bunch in direct from DNM. That was pretty much cost price though, at least for the quantity I'd be looking at.

What ever you do...don't try riding on a trampoline...it doesn't help. I know from experience. :lol:

Yeah I got on a trampoline after my kids begged me about a year ago and I rapidly found out how little fun that is with a bad back

 

[Rodney64]

Yes rest up Jay. Are you back at work. Yes I managed to get one of those forks at 450 not 399 but that how it rolls.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

If there's alot of interest in them for the raptor frames I may get a bunch in direct from DNM. That was pretty much cost price though, at least for the quantity I'd be looking at.

Awesome - Keep me in the loop, I would definitely be interested if you do. I'm assuming in all this that one of them would fit my Fighter...I can't see why not, but I'm clueless on steerer length's sizes etc.

Yeah I got on a trampoline after my kids begged me about a year ago and I rapidly found out how little fun that is with a bad back

Yeah that's bad to...not what I meant though.
I was actually stupid enough, a great number of years ago, to take my dad's mountain bike onto a trampoline and attempt to bounce around on it and 'jump' off...needless to say it didn't end well. :lol:

 

[Sigmacom]

Interesting pic of the stators from those motors Jay. Apart from the better heatsinking ability of the TC its also a lot to do with just how efficient those TC motors are compared to the rest - as per the ebikes.ca simulator.

That rattling sound from my Sony Actioncam in the video is a design fault in the camera - have already had it back to Sony and although they improved it it is still really annoying!

 

[TheBeastie]

Also in keeping with documenting my injuries here's my fractured lumbar spine.
Introducing the new 12kw Raptor from Hyena Industries - AKA, "The Back Breaker"
I need to find a better way to do my R&D, my bike continues to write cheques my body can't cash... :lol:

Well I have the surgeon for you! I was just watching on FourCorners last night about this neurosurgeon Dr Suresh Nair who works on spines in the NSW and is in need of work.
He tends to walk right into delicate spine surgery straight from 2 day cocaine binges with hookers, he has tended to operate on completely the wrong part of the patients spine but hes due for success next time around.

Go on, give him ago

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/08/25/4071837.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-24/cocaine-addicted-surgeon-linked-to-deaths-continued-operating/5691768

 

[Architectonic]

Um no, just say no to crack addict surgeons.

 

[Hyena]

Yeah but he got his surgeries done in record time
Speaking of doctors and things going to shit, it seems that damage on the xray I posted above is the tip of the ice berg...
A spinal fracture from such a trivial fall sets off warning bells and I've been for a string of tests in the last few days. My back pain is getting worse rather than better and the concern is possible secondary bone cancer after my earlier issues. I had a full body bone scan today and it turns out not only is my coccyx also fractured (in addition to the known fracture above) but also several of my vertebrae right up my back! It seems my previous chemo has caused the calcium to be leeched from my bones and I have what looks like advanced osteoporosis which is just bullshit in a 35 year old.
Given the amount of damage caused by a fairly minor fall on my bum (on grass no less) it's scary to think the damage I could do with a proper stack at speed. As such the doctors have advised I give away riding bikes to which my first thought was "pft, ain't gonna happen" but I'll see how things progress and what wonders modern medicine has to offer. Anyone know where I can get some adamantium ?

At the least I think my days of high speed, balls out riding are over. Needless to say it has me feeling pretty emo right now.

Apologies to those still waiting on raptor frames, this drama has had me tied up the last few days but I'll get them out with the courier tomorrow.

 

[PRW]

Sheesh - I don't even know what to say. Take care, and all the best...

 

[Rodney64]

Jay, my thoughts are with you and your family. Perhaps we can catch up when im in Sydney.



Rod