Thanks for the clarification, a lot of my planning towards a build using these motors has been based off of what you posted originally on the UK forum and also on that motor performance test table that has been posted on some of the listings for this motor on alibaba.com and I'm hoping I'll be able to at least push this motor up into the 60+ volt range to get the kind of speed I want with a front and rear double motor build. Would really like to see if it could handle the voltage of a 20s Li-Poly pack with an amp limit no less then 10-amps and not losing more then an amp or two to core heating but not so sure I'll be able to push it that far.
Xiongda 2-speed motor
- Thread starter d8veh
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markz
100 TW
d8veh said:
135kg is 300lbs, Wow thats amazing. Maybe they make a higher wattage motor then the nominal 400W/250W whatever it is.
Wow I am interested in this motor, and its only $100 WOW!!!!!!!
I will put this on my list, next to the MAC. I know its no comparison.
markz
100 TW
WOW! They sell a 48V 15A Xiongda. Well low gear winch, is hill climbing monster.
750W Xiongda, is how much?
750W Xiongda, is how much?
Pics, or it didn't happen!...
The 48v one is very cheap. Something like $300 including shipping for the motor, controller, LCD and PAS.
The 48v motor is identical to the 36v one on the outside. I didn't count the gear teeth, so I can't say whether the difference is in the winnding or the gears. The speed is more or less the same, but it has a lot more torque.
The 48v motor is identical to the 36v one on the outside. I didn't count the gear teeth, so I can't say whether the difference is in the winnding or the gears. The speed is more or less the same, but it has a lot more torque.
endlessly_ending
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d8veh said:
at more or less comparable wattage?
markz
100 TW
d8veh said:
How many amps could you put through that motor? 15A to me seems wimpy.
endlessly_ending
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d8veh said:
Thanks, that makes all lot of sense to me!
Very interesting.
Is that 48V version also available as a front motor version with 100mm (possibly without disk brake)?
endlessly_ending
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Great, thanks for sharing the good news!
slowhands
100 W
A youtube video of the motor disassembled shows how it works. For me this explained it better than still pictures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzw8MKvErtw
I totally love this motor. I would never have thought of reversing the motor direction to change to different freewheels inside, but I see somebody thought of this 135 years ago. So elegant.
Spinning Magnets was right, the motor is too wide, 132mm for the front version, more for the rear with cluster. It could easily be made narrower to fit standard front 100mm and rear 135mm hub spacings. The inner hub could hold the mechanical gears and freewheels as they are, while the outer portion could hold the stator and rotor.
I don't think this change would cost much more if the present magnets and coils were used, but it would be simple to go to much wider magnets and coils to increase efficiency and power at slightly higher cost. Sounds like a win to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzw8MKvErtw
I totally love this motor. I would never have thought of reversing the motor direction to change to different freewheels inside, but I see somebody thought of this 135 years ago. So elegant.
Spinning Magnets was right, the motor is too wide, 132mm for the front version, more for the rear with cluster. It could easily be made narrower to fit standard front 100mm and rear 135mm hub spacings. The inner hub could hold the mechanical gears and freewheels as they are, while the outer portion could hold the stator and rotor.
I don't think this change would cost much more if the present magnets and coils were used, but it would be simple to go to much wider magnets and coils to increase efficiency and power at slightly higher cost. Sounds like a win to me.
Consider the stack height of all the essential components, which account for the total width of the motor, since there are no gaps:
Left bearing
Stator/rotor
Primary gears
Gear bearing plate
Secondary gears
Clutches
Right side bearing.
The only way to reduce the overall motor width is to reduce the width of one or more of those in the list.
Left bearing
Stator/rotor
Primary gears
Gear bearing plate
Secondary gears
Clutches
Right side bearing.
The only way to reduce the overall motor width is to reduce the width of one or more of those in the list.
The motor section could be made a larger diameter. The Stromer motor and the BionX both place the controller in the center of the hub. Give me enough money and I could make it happen...
I have been corresponding with Bonnie (friendly Xiong rep)on a 100mm, (front hub), 48 volt app. But she has yet to send me a table of rpm, torque, watts out, amps, volts, etc for that app. The 48 volt table she DID send me made it look like motor saturated at ~215 rpm. She says that "they will be testing a motor soon, and will provide ma a table then". Seems like she (they) should have this info at their fingertips, so I'm kind of skeptical. Any such tables, or real world experience? Also, good or bad experience with wither of the available controllers?
Thanks all
Thanks all
skoleskibe
100 mW
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Lucky owner of a XIONGDA 48v rear motor with Kunteng controller. 28"rim. Asked Bonnie to send me a motor that would do about 30km/h. It does about 34km/h on a 12s lipo. Rather great.
Only downside i can think of is the dishing, which makes the wheel less strong as i had hoped.. Clearly the wheel feel softer when leaning the bike to the right than to the left side.
The torque is about the same as my heinzman 24v 400w motor (drawing in excess of 50amps from 8s).
Just saw the 36v xiongda motor incl rim spokes 36v 10ah battery etc at a staggering price of only 270$ from alibaba. Seller is Hangzhou BTN Ebike technologies
Only downside i can think of is the dishing, which makes the wheel less strong as i had hoped.. Clearly the wheel feel softer when leaning the bike to the right than to the left side.
The torque is about the same as my heinzman 24v 400w motor (drawing in excess of 50amps from 8s).
Just saw the 36v xiongda motor incl rim spokes 36v 10ah battery etc at a staggering price of only 270$ from alibaba. Seller is Hangzhou BTN Ebike technologies
skoleskibe said:
Maybe the 28" wheel makes it seem less "strong". Separately, you validated my concern for 48 volt rpm v torque relationship. 30 kph is ~202 rpm and 34 kph is ~229 rpm, right? I want at least 300 rpm for my 16" app or the big boys will be kicking sand in my face even more than now.....
skoleskibe
100 mW
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Think the motor is available in several different kv, thus probably also available in higher speeds.
By the way the alibaba seller: when i study the add, the battery is optional!! Sorry, my fault.
By the way the alibaba seller: when i study the add, the battery is optional!! Sorry, my fault.
skoleskibe said:
Thanks skoleskibe. I'll be patient until I hear back from Bonnie. Ignorance admission, what is "kv" in this context? "Kilovolt" I know, maybe "kilowatt"? If so, I could have sworn that Bonnie told me that a motor with a voltage rating was the same, no matter what they screwed on the sides to make it fatter. But I might have misconscrewed her......
skoleskibe
100 mW
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kv is the number of rews/minute the motor runs when supplied 1volt.
bigoilbob said:
Those figures are way off. My 48v one does about 23 mph no-load speed, which is 308 rpm at about 52v. My 36v one has about 25% higher kV, so it's 10% slower with a 36v battery. On the road, the 48v one with 48v battery will give reasonable power up to 21mph. The 36v one with a 36v battery has good power up to about 19mph on the road. There's no saturation. Only the back emf stops it from going faster.
I prefer the KT controller. It works perfectly - smooth and quiet. I use them on my other bikes too. I rarely use the auto gear change. I prefer to force it to change when I want it. With the KT it changes to low gear when you go one level above 5 on the display. The throttle control is interesting. It took me a while to figure out what happens. The throttle is normal (proportional) when you don't pedal. When you pedal, it goes immediately to maximum power, which is sort of logical.
d8veh said:
Agree. Bonnie sent me another table this AM. NO idea what the old one was about. At 48 volts, efficiency starts to drop at ~276 rpm. I asked her if there was a higher spinning 48 volt motor (with correspondingly good efficiencies), but I suspect not, and WYSIWYG. Separately, thanks for the 52 volt info. Would you please tell me more about your high volt power pack? Also, thanks for the controller info. How would it work if you skip the PAS altogether? And what is the "5 on the display" measuring? Finally, thanks for the tech on back emf. I was using the wrong term, "saturation".
It would be stupid to skip the PAS function. That's the best thing about the control system. I guess you've not used one before.
The LCD has 6 levels, each one gives a different current when you pedal. Level 0 gives no power with PAS or throttle. Level 1 about 60w, level 2 about 130w, 3 about 230w 4 about 350w and 5 gives maximum up to about 750w. Go up one more level and the display changes to "L", the motor reverses and the winch is engaged with maximum power, which you get at speeds up to about 5 mph, then the back emf starts to reduce the current, so you typically see 350w to 600w when climbing depending on how fast you're going.
When you use the throttle, without PAS, it works normally, except on level zero, when you get zero power.
Here's the battery I use:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/684-48v116ah-bottle-09-panasonic-battery-charger-battery.html
The LCD has 6 levels, each one gives a different current when you pedal. Level 0 gives no power with PAS or throttle. Level 1 about 60w, level 2 about 130w, 3 about 230w 4 about 350w and 5 gives maximum up to about 750w. Go up one more level and the display changes to "L", the motor reverses and the winch is engaged with maximum power, which you get at speeds up to about 5 mph, then the back emf starts to reduce the current, so you typically see 350w to 600w when climbing depending on how fast you're going.
When you use the throttle, without PAS, it works normally, except on level zero, when you get zero power.
Here's the battery I use:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/684-48v116ah-bottle-09-panasonic-battery-charger-battery.html
d8veh said:
Respectfully disagree on PAS. Don't want it, don't need it. Unneeded complexity IMO. My app will be on a tandem recumbent, and the Captain will command the throttle. You disagree, but don't think it makes either of us stupid. Many thanks for the battery info though. Again admitting my ignorance, how do you get 52 volts out of it?
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