How fast would you go before considering wearing protective gear?

Granted crashing at 40 on one bike won't be much different than crashing at 40 on another But I broke 40 for the first time the other night drafting a car on my cheapo bargain basement carbon bargain basement bbs02 full rigid bike. I literally built this thing with almost all parts bin inventory, The frame I got used but never built for 75 bucks and Weighs under 3 pounds. Generic carbon fork is a little over a pound. 27.5x2.3 vee speedsters. Grip is good, geometry is a little bit outdated and not that slack. Brakes are parts bin Shimano hydraulics- 160 mm rotors 2 piston not the four piston. They feel nice but sort of suck.
Anyway the combination of factors- the questionable Chinese carbon especially the fork, The steeper geometry Just scares the crap out of me at speed
It got me thinking I may want to consider a full face helmet for days I plan on going out in hooligan mode, not to mention that for builds that are more powerful than this in the future it probably wouldn't be a bad thing to do along with some more protective gear

I mentioned this to a friend who's into motorcycles and he told me any speed like that I should definitely go full face because at a minimum I'd be missing teeth.
What is the consensus on this? Do I want to consider some dirt bike style gear or do I just have to take it easy on this thing and build something better suited to that type of riding like an old downhill bike. When I built it I was thinking it would top out in the high 20s or maybe hit 30 but I seem to be hitting speeds in the mid 30s on throttle only even with just a 48 V battery
I was actually considering switching to a smaller chain ring just to limit the top speed a bit

Yes I know I am posting in off-topic, this is really more about whether or not I need a full face helmet riding above certain speeds but I went off on a tangent

Everything is a gamble and it depends if you want to stack the odds in your favor. It is dangerous in a car above 35 mph.

The head is most important and then there is road rash. Going full head gear might as well get some leathers too.

My last tumble. got knocked off my trike above 20 mph, cracked my ribs where I got hit and road rash on elbows and knees.
Was in shorts but had my bicycle helmet on. No head injuries that i'm glad of. Still ride in shorts, no padding but i'm more careful.

I like speed too. Just don't think it is safe going to fast on a bike. Watch the Tour de France. Them guys break hips, arms and legs. :lol: going like 50 mph at times.

Safety if the smart thing to do, not the fun or comfortable thing.

Given that i still have injuries from my crash at 20mph from 10 years ago, i'd say 20mph is where i'd be looking for a helmet or other safety measures, yup.

Thanks guys, that is good advice. Last year I crashed and broke a couple of ribs around 20 miles an hour too. Granted it was an almost worst case scenario where I hit a wooden skid in the road and went to a standstill While I was still clipped into the pedals.

Think I'm going to invest in a little bit of safety gear and try to make it a point to wear it Whenever I plan on doing anything beyond commuting or mild recreation

If I don't wear it, I'll make it a point to dial it back a little. I was wondering if I was on some thing with slacker geometry and suspension that felt safer if I would be better off, but I feel like it would just encourage me to ride faster

Still clipped in the pedals..... ouch.
I have always had a real aversion to pedal clips because they can prevent you from using your legs to alter how the fall happens.

Good suspension WILL encourage you to go faster, but you don't have to. Also, it will ensure that your wheels have a contact patch to the ground, instead of one wheel going airborne and potentially landing in a place you don't expect after hitting a bump. That happened enough times at speeds beyond 25mph on my ebikes that i swore to myself that for the sake of my own safety, i would never ride a bike without full suspension again.

In the motorcycle world there are many designs that have bars and such built into the frame that take a hit to the ground before your body does. I think if we want to improve the safety of a bicycle or recumbent, we should experiment with implementing such things ourselves rather than just relying on helmets and pads for the knees and elbows.

That's true, come to think of it I have friends who raced Ducatis And they lean into turns so hard sometimes that the frames are scraped. Not going to lean into a turn like that on a bike, but falling down I would imagine that most of the time's the bike would take the brunt of the impact If you can't safely abandon ship

Manbeer said:

I broke 40 for the first time the other night drafting a car on my cheapo bargain basement carbon bargain basement bbs02 full rigid bike.
[...]
Grip is good, geometry is a little bit outdated and not that slack.

Click to expand...

Because of course you need slack geometry for that, right?



Fashions come and go. That doesn't mean fashionable things are always the right things.

Ive been experimenting at 28-MPH, because that is currently the speed cap to legally run an ebike in many places.

Ive crashed before, and its not fun. I always ride with a helmet, usually a skaters helmet or bicycle helmet, not a full face.

I wear sport glasses because Ive been hit with gravel by passing cars.

I wear leather gloves because Ive crashed without them in the past. One thing thats worse than a broken hand bone is...a broken hand bone with deep road rash and missing skin.

Manbeer said:

That's true, come to think of it I have friends who raced Ducatis And they lean into turns so hard sometimes that the frames are scraped. Not going to lean into a turn like that on a bike, but falling down I would imagine that most of the time's the bike would take the brunt of the impact If you can't safely abandon ship

Click to expand...

Yes, i've been thinking about that, especially on my semi recumbents:


On a bike like mine, the fall is shorter, which is good, but the potential for road rash is high. Bars protruding out the side could help dissipate the momentum before i hit the ground. I could also very easily shield my body from an impact and let that shield take the road rash instead of me.

I think the resulting crash would be very low impact on the body.

On an upright bike, you can fall in many different directions. But the most likely fall is to the sides, so the same thinking applies.

You could perhaps build an aerodynamic fairing that doubles as something to blunt a side-fall, which wouldn't enclose your legs, but take the hit before your legs do. Like that on a motorcycle:




Personally i think the ideal ebike still needs two things:
1) a longer range so you can enjoy it more, ride faster, etc. ( li-metal and solid state are on the way! )
2) some sort of safety mechanism so that the damage that can come from a higher speed crash is lessened. ( nobody's invented, nor have i heard anyone discussion this idea - we're at ground zero )

I don't think it would be all that hard to incorporate air bags in an ebike design.

In fact it's probably already been done.

i was drafting behind a semi trailer on my way to work doing about 70km/h, wondering if i should try to touch that low metal bar with my toe then i realised i didnt have my gloves on. normally its bike helmet, glasses and gloves and steel toes

I was testing some tires and found out the hard way they sucked in tight turns. My platform pedals loaded with grub screws tore a section out of my ankle that looked like a 2 1/2" x 1" map of New Jersey. Mooshed a knee, road rash on shin, calf. Grit dug into my palms. Cracked a rib or two. Missed bouncing my face off the ground so that was a plus.

I was right in front of my house, testing in a circle in my cul-de-sac. Wearing shorts, house slippers, no helmet or gloves. Approximate speed was ... 5 mph? Just rolled out of the driveway, a dab of throttle, a turn back to the house and WHAM.

Speed doesn't kill. Stupid kills. Bad luck kills. You gotta just wear the gear and forget about needing it because of speed.

Unfortunately, riding every day in summer heat I can't tolerate the armor jackets I have. 106 fahrenheit today. But no matter what I do the full finger leather gloves, downhill helmet with chin guard, wraparound sun- or amber eyeglasses. never flip flops.

nicobie said:

I don't think it would be all that hard to incorporate air bags in an ebike design.

In fact it's probably already been done.

Click to expand...

Someone designed an airbag based helmet. That's all i know about.

MoneyPit said:

Unfortunately, riding every day in summer heat I can't tolerate the armor jackets I have. 106 fahrenheit today. But no matter what I do the full finger leather gloves, downhill helmet with chin guard, wraparound sun- or amber eyeglasses. never flip flops.

Click to expand...

This is why most people 'forget' to equip their protection. It's either thermally or physically uncomfortable.

Nobody forgets to protect themselves in a car because the protection is built into a vehicle. You might forget your seatbelt, but a bazillion air bags will step in. Then there's all sorts of features built into the frame of the car as well. Every part of the car is designed to collapse in a particular way.

On an injury per mile basis, compared to a car, bicycles are shockingly unsafe. I think the answer is to implement some ideas from the car world. Because our thinking is not working.

How fast would you go...

To me it's not simply a matter of speed. Amount and type of traffic, road conditions, weather, lighting, my own level of alertness, all factor into the crash danger quotient.

Part of my commute takes me thru a busy shipping port area with crazy semi-truck traffic, busted up potholed roads, R/R tracks at all angles, etc. Knowing the roads, sometimes it feels safe cruising thru there mid 20s MPH say on a weekend with little port activity. Other times (in wet dark conditions for example) 15 MPH seems dangerous.

On the other hand, all other things being equal, higher velocity usually means worse crashes.

I have crashed enough to have started to be able to control the effects sometimes. Placement/posture of my body and its parts during the crash to minimize the worst effects. My last crash actually cured a nagging backache I had been suffering on the right side. Cheap chiropractic! Lol. But it could have easily gone the other way.

Always wearing a good bike helmet, protective glasses (mostly for bugs), gloves for hand protection. Never sandals or flip-flops. If I was able to cruise up into the 30s MPH I would start looking at a lightweight full-face helmet.

neptronix said:

This is why most people 'forget' to equip their protection. It's either thermally or physically uncomfortable.

Click to expand...

Well, speaking personally I am not forgetting anything. I know the gear is there. Its just that trying to ride with it on is not feasible. Worth mentioning is I ride the bike as a pedelec for exercise. I more or less have to; Keeping my cardiovascular system from deteriorating is the point of the ride. If I was riding it throttle-only I'd be a lot more able to tolerate a 15-mile ride in a sweatbox/armored jacket.

I ride with either a Bell Super3R or a Super DH - both have chin guards/full face, but those helmets have vents galore which is essential to not cook your noggin. Thats a real concern in high heat where you are exerting yourself. the full finger leather gloves I can live with. But one look at the sweatstains that come with an evening commute home gives a good idea of the toll it takes to ride in this kind of weather. Try adding a padded armored jacket in this kind of heat - coupled to exercise - and you are talking heat exhaustion.



Not complaining. I just think there are issues inherent in riding that aren't going to be easily overcome. (a coolshirt setup like I had auto racing would be a start, but is impractical).