AM dual motor = bafang middrive + rear hub motor

[John Bozi]

The spoke cutter measures to the nearest mm so I've cut just shy of 74mm and with the longer threads as requested.

If I had known this I would have requested 73mm as Pendragon said earlier that they will stretch and I dont want them puncturing the tubes.

anyway way,

the hookworms look expensive in the above link when you factor shipping. I got 3 a while back when they were on sale for about $100 I think(I think pushys) waiting for sales or just buying in advance is cheaper but at the same time you change your preference...
This place has got highrollers for $30 24" http://www.velogear.com.au/bike-parts/bike-tyres-bicycle-tubes/tyres/24-tyres/maxxis-holy-roller-24.html

thanks drew - but recording this way is a huge pain, takes the fun out of it when you got to stop set up fly by go back and get the camera...

Cheese:

Until I know what exactly the inside of the cover looks like I plan to do a hole between each imagined line from each spoke end toward the axle. This rudimentary image is just a quick sketch. The inner holes will be about half the size and go every second space between the imagined holes.

If there is a fin or skeletal line I wont being drilling that out but will opt to do more holes either side of it.

 

[trevc2]

The spoke cutter measures to the nearest mm so I've cut just shy of 74mm and with the longer threads as requested.

If I had known this I would have requested 73mm as Pendragon said earlier that they will stretch and I dont want them puncturing the tubes.

anyway way,

the hookworms look expensive in the above link when you factor shipping. I got 3 a while back when they were on sale for about $100 I think(I think pushys) waiting for sales or just buying in advance is cheaper but at the same time you change your preference...

thanks drew - but recording this way is a huge pain, takes the fun out of it when you got to stop set up fly by go back and get the camera...

Cheese:

Until I know what exactly the inside of the cover looks like I plan to do a hole between each imagined line from each spoke end toward the axle. This rudimentary image is just a quick sketch. The inner holes will be about half the size and go every second space between the imagined holes.

If there is a fin or skeletal line I wont being drilling that out but will opt to do more holes either side of it.

Did you get 26" or 24" hookworms? 2-ply? They stopped making the 24's a while ago, they're becoming very rare. Best bicycle tires I've used, but I'll be sticking to motorcycle rubber and tubes from now on.

The crappy thing is that 24" downhill tubes are also becoming rare. Much of the existing stock is old and getting brittle. I had one Maxxis DH tube randomly explode on me, failed at the valve (it tore clean off).

 

[voicecoils]

The spoke cutter measures to the nearest mm so I've cut just shy of 74mm and with the longer threads as requested.

If I had known this I would have requested 73mm as Pendragon said earlier that they will stretch and I dont want them puncturing the tubes.

The stretch length is proportional to spoke length and your spokes are extremely short. You might get 1mm stretch on a 300mm 14g spoke at 100kgf tension. On a 73-74mm spoke that'd be 0.25mm stretch but your spokes are butted and the 13G section will stretch even less. Also, you've got a double wall rim so unless the spokes are far too long for the rim & hub combo, the spokes should not stick out through the second skin of the rim. In short, no need to worry yet! 8)

 

[pendragon8000]

Sorry . didn't mean to lead you astray. Re spoke stretch.

Re drilling:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47452&start=200#p763023

 

[John Bozi]

Thanks Abraham at setting my fears aside "for now" lol.

I worry a million things won't fit as I have been building long enough to know that's bikes and ebikes are even harder. I am not sure if the tyre will rub, chain line will be clear, bb will fit together, derailleur will not hit the tyre or ground.

There's only so much measuring you can do but I still wonder and worry if this is going to fall together.

Trev, that's the pain too. 24" is going out like everything else that suited us. The other one is high quality bikes with vertical dropouts. brittle rubber sounds freaky.

Bit like that pend - but possibly only 9 holes depending how it looks inside. Between each screw.

 

[John Bozi]

I thought I better copy this information here somewhere if it ever gets taken down (as much info has often vanished that I needed before)
http://www.crystalyte.com/h40%20series.htm

The H40-Series base on the H35 series but the stator and magnet + 5mm width. In order to increase the motor power and torque.
Usually it is hoop up with 48V or 72V battery system. The controller with min. 48V 50A or 72V 50A
Standard model : H4065 and 4080
　
General Information :
Motor Model H4065 H4080
72V Speed 65km/hr 80km/hr
Torque Nm 60.26Nm at 48V 25A 66.80Nm at 48V 25A
Weight 9.0 kg
Wheel Laced Size 20" ~ 28"
Voltage range 36V ~ 72V 36V ~ 72V
Freewheel 1 speed 1 speed
Front Axle Dropout (mm ) 135mm 135mm
Rear Axle Dropout (mm ) 135mm 135mm
Part No. H4065 H4080
　
* Nm = Newton meter
* Motor speed record base on 72V system with 26" wheel, While motor hookup with 48V the speed will decrease.
- Motor test base on 40A controller. While controller's current increase the torque will increase. Max. current 60A
- Motor Color : Black

Remark on H40 series motor :
- Permanent magnet direct driver / gear less hub motor
- High grade NdFeB Magnets
- Sheet type lamination with deep slot
- High quality hall effect sensors
- NSK sealed bearing
- Cover with stainless Torx screw
- Plug in hall effect hall effect and motor phase connector
- Dia. 2.5mm2 motor phase wire
- Spokes with G12 available
- Motor wire length : 30cm

 

[TotalConfusion]

Hey John,
I was wondering what sort of Throttle your running and are you running a CAV3 with it also?

Just having a few problems with mine.

 

[John Bozi]

Hey John,
I was wondering what sort of Throttle your running and are you running a CAV3 with it also?

Just having a few problems with mine.

yes cav3 and ebikes.ca half twist with green regen

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49136&p=866378&hilit=throttle#p865944

On another note, newb, sent me some pics of gcdc's venting.
To report there are no fins or other things to consider:

so
This is pretty much what I was thinking although I am not sure of the size of drill bit:

-I got a hole saw from dad but not big enough and it looks a bit worn.

with holes that big do I really need the little ones down lower? I really don't think so.

-I can't find bloody 13g spokewashers anywhere but in the UK - thats too far and costly shipping...

http://www.unicycle.uk.com/spoke-washers-option-13g.html

Also I am considering changing my battery set up.
I can use my current batteries on my old bike and make them 3p

I really want to get this pvc thing happening under the down tube.

 

[John Bozi]

This is a little older this video, shot by newb. This is unusual terrain around my trails. Most my stuff is rocky gravel mountainous stuff, but this is quite flat grassy and moist, next to the dam. I wonder how my vented hub and more so rear derailleur will handle the 19" rear. I suspect the derailleur will get smashed off. At which time I will buy a yes single speed system.

Part 3 heading home via the dam
[youtube]koNs29eE0zQ[/youtube]

Either looking at 20s2p (or temporarily 21s)
I can buy a couple of these to take me up to the 88v regen limit.

or go to 5s x 8 = 20s2p neat and tidy.

Maybe samd can come with some nice battery boxes?

for these:

least sag ever @ 156x46x42mm

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=53897

or maximum capacity @ 194x45x47mm

Its a hard call with 4cm and $20 difference

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__35545__Turnigy_nano_tech_8000mAh_5S_25_50C_Lipo_Pack_AUS_Warehouse_.html

 

[John Bozi]

Everytime I put foot down going up hill was another reason I need to vent and drop wheel size.

This part one to the previously posted video which was part 3 of our ride.

[youtube]79uAkntrsww[/youtube]

The terrain in this video sums up what most of my riding is. Lots of mountains, no mud, lots of little rocks and twigs. I am currently researching the best front 24" maxxi tyre.

I think the high roller is the one.

24X2.50 55-507 60 WIRE 1,080 SINGLE 65

 

[John Bozi]

would this clear the fully compressed suspension and how many batteries would fit there Samd? (creator of the image file).

 

[Samd]

Interesting project.

I generally use these - how far are you riding John?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14653

The nanotech is nice but wow - the price!

 

[Samd]

Oh and your Hasa seems to have M5 rivnuts in the underside of the downtube to hang a waterbottle cage from - could actually be a cool feature. You could put a couple further up also to hang the battery box from....

http://www.carolinarovers.info/croc-stuff/tips/259-make-your-own-rivnut-tool

From your local nut and bolt shop:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/M5-Nutserts-Steel-Splined-Riv-Nuts-Rivnuts-Rivets-Nutsert-Qty-10-/300854270773?pt=AU_Fasteners&hash=item460c4fdb35

You'd want some sort of a secondary catch such as a few straps in case the battery box ever tried to drop off. But the rivnuts would do a lot of the work.

 

[John Bozi]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=35316&start=175#p905217 The rides get longer and longer, but I refuse to go over 88v 2p the bikes at the limit of what I find comfortable to pick up and carry over those horse entry gate thingos at national parks.

currently I ride around 30km trips with lots of pedalling, and I know I could stretch that to 40km as my limit.

I'd be happy with those cheap batteries and smaller size if they could all fit tidilly into one area. Otherwise I want to either limit sag or extend range, and have the messy modular style of a batteries mounted all over the place as my only solution.

This is how the bike looks as I ride it now:

and this video gives some idea of where its headed
[youtube]xG4oIebZFQI[/youtube]

 

[Samd]

Here's what I'd do. 20S 10ah in an underbelly. And hang your controller off the underneath door.

100mm wide internal with a bit of room up top of the box for connectors.

 

[John Bozi]

I'll have to measure up the clearance of the fully compressed front wheel in particular, thanks Samd - love the graphics. Here is an unmeasured wheel version which I am only using what I expect the wheels will be near.


I need to put out a whole heap of info here before it gets lost in pages of pms.

Bearings
oldhaq

ive been using 6304's from repco, about $5 ea

controller

Well yes to both, in a sense. The controller will do regen up to a bus voltage of 88V, beyond that it will no longer do regen.

This behavior is execeedingly important, without a limit then if the battery is disconnected during regen, the voltage will keep going up and up until it blows either the mosfets or the controller bus capacitors.

-Justin


John Boz:
Hi Justin,
Not sure on one point,

If I run over 88v, I can not use regen at all
or
If I run over 88v, regen will be limited to 88v.

I think it is the second...
Thanks again.


Hi John, the controller mosfets and bus capacitors are all 100V rated. The battery range refers to nominal, so 72V nominal is either a 20S lithium or 24S LiFePO4, and hence why the max regen was set to 88V, so above this there is no regen current and you don't risk overcharging the packs.

It's nice to have some headroom, but strictly speaking you won't have an avalanche breakdown of the fets until 100+ V.

Notice that even though the electrical parts in principle are all rated for these voltages, we don't provide warranty above 48V nominal because fundamentally they are not controller boards designed and engineered for these voltage levels, even if they seem to work just fine once they key elements (fets and caps) are upgraded.

-Justin


John Bozi:
Hi again,
Justin and co,

I would like some clarification about the controller I bought regarding maximum voltage. I have the far right one on your table.

infineon Maximum 72v, regen to 88v 12 fet.

I have been running 18s lipo up to 75v hot off the charge.

I 'd like to know why it is called maximum 72v and maximum regen 88v, or more specifically what is the true maximum voltage I can run through it. (I suspect 72v is recommended but not sure why? - safety buffer?)

Not that I run to 4.2v a cell but just for illustration...

Basically I would like to run 20s (or even 21s) 20x4.2=84v or 21x4.15=87.15

I am suspecting that if I kept it under 88v there would be no problems...

thanks again.

Infineon 40A
Battery Range 36 - 72V
Current Limit 40 Amps
Low Voltage Cutoff 29V
Waterproofing Good
Ebrake Function Regen to 88V
Mosfets 12x IRFB4110
Dimensions (mm) 151 x 86 x 42

Motor Spray

Our price for Elmotherm VA00 is $21.50 plus GSt per can. We are open from 7.30am to 4.30pm Mon-Fri
Associated Gaskets
97 Commercial Rd
Fortitude Valley QLD 4006
(07) 3257 1144
http://agaus.com.au/product/elmotherm-0 ... y-varnish/
http://agaus.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Elmotherm-009-0008-Air-Dry-Varnish-Information-Sheet.pdf

 

[John Bozi]

She really didn't me to strip her back, so attacked me.

I let her sit in the front seat while the wife and daughter were in the back.

She wouldn't even let me get a screw out of her without clamping the beegeesus out of her.
Had a couple of grapas with the head mechanic boss = dad.

Even my dad banged her..

After ages she finally let us see her naked

she needs new bearings from repco so I bought her some new balls.

Will start drilling her soon
but she looks nice after a hard day

 

[Samd]

Hi John, still tinkering away with a design for a downtube box.

Any idea what the diameter of your downtube is? Looks about 50mm from the pics....

 

[John Bozi]

Hi John, still tinkering away with a design for a downtube box.

Any idea what the diameter of your downtube is? Looks about 50mm from the pics....

she's an organic shape bit like an oval or egg cross section in parts, flatter underneath ... hard to describe.

its like 4cm vertically -5cm horizontally toward the chainring, and the other direction toward steering 5 horizontally -6cm vertically.

its quite a pain.

Drilling
Day two of having bike pulled apart. Well friday half day.

problem 1 dads arbour connection thing didnt work, raced to supercheap auto - not they are crap and only big sets of sizes I dont want or will ever use. Lucky got in the last minute to russ all. bought a new arbour there -

drilled one hole well, second hole bent the drill totally and broke half the teeth on the hole saw!

I thought that was the end of it, but dad proved me wrong - straightened the drill enough, and drilled 18 holes with a super frocked hole saw.

In the mean time I got to spray the motor a couple of coats.

That's all the time for today.

Edit: Just bought a couple of these to take me up to 88v. Just need another parallel harness..

Will run this until some batteries start failing and then look at 8x5s... and possibly what samd might come with...

 

[pendragon8000]

check Keplers video. how to open hubs. after playing with a gaer puller, i have used this method of slaming it down to open it, no issues so far.
[youtube]eQHz3eAh9SE[/youtube]

 

[John Bozi]

Unfortunately he didn't show us how he actually put the bearings in.

I know you can't hit the middle of the bearings, mine take a lot of force to get them in, and already stuffed two new ones. It basically blew off my whole weekend, I would have been laced by now otherwise. So frustrating there were no bearing shops open.. Now I have to wait till wednesday just to try to get them in again.

Although one bearing may have been defective, I doubt two were even though they were cheap repco ones.

Quite sad... sick off set backs - 4 free days for building so far to just get the motor and bearings apart.

I wish I had one of those big press devices to push it in evenly....

I want to give my bike a name:
What do you get when you cross a penny farthing and a billy goat?

I'd like to make a nice sticker for the swing arms Penny Goat 200w.

 

[pendragon8000]

Bummer man. I suggest getting a dye grinder like Kepler has in the video. "Dremel" or similar. Very handy. Could have taken off that tiny bit to make the bearings slide in.

Edit
Sorry . he scraped them. But I would have used a sanding bit and taken off .1mm or so with my dremel tool.

 

[John Bozi]

thanks, had a chance to watch again - with sound now ...

would hand sand work as I dont know if we have either tool...

 

[Kepler]

Nice to see that video is still around being used as a ghetto reference for removing bearings.

Kind of showing my age with using the bearing scraper to open up the bearing housing slightly. It's an old school tool used to level the high spots on white metal bearings. Custom engine builders still tend to use them though.

Sanding will do the job if you are careful but the problem with sandpaper is that it's really hard to get to the inside of the bearing housing and you can easily end up with a taper from front to back.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Bearing install on that motor is actualy easy, without sanding.

I cleaned the inside up with an SOS pad, basically fine steel wool and soap. Then I put the cover out in the hot Texas sun, and the bearing in the freezer for a couple hours. The cover got up to 140f, the bearing was around 10f.

Then I set the bearing in the hole, and passed through a thick bolt from the cover side, with a thick washer on both sides. the washer needs to be wider than the gasket of the bearing. The wider the better. Then I added a nut, stuck the head of the bolt in a table vice, and cranked down on the nut until it squeezed in the bearing.

The bolt should be as close to the thickness as the hole in the bearing. the thinner it is, the more easily it will be off center and pull the bearing in crooked. That's not a problem as long as you stop and reset the bolt so it pulls the bearing straight each time. But it's just easier with a thicker bolt.

Just for pics, Here's someone pressing BB bearings with a similar idea. http://twobit.us/blog/2009/11/new-macneil-cranks/