An Advanced Friction Drive System

tritonwow said:
Do you know if this show airs on the internet for those of us without Aussie TV?
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I dunno..i recorded the last one Carvin Marvins (tilting trike) and upped it too youtube, will do the same for Keplers.

KiM
 
rodgah said:
hey kepler been watching for a while now,
I like the concept its always great to see something that isnt a hub :wink: .

As refers to waterjet vs laser, laser in theory/generally should be atleast 1/3 the price of water due to complexity and speed of cut between the 2, this depends alot on type of material though.

*warning kim...science lesson*
Even though aluminium is weaker than steel, biz, titanium for that matter it is almost twice as hard to cut with a laser because instead of absorbing all of the light energy(leading it to vapourise) it instead reflects a decent percentage back, sometimes as much as 50%, same with stainless to a lesser extent. For example on a 5KW CO2 laser you can easily cut 20mm mild or high carbon steel, but you are really struggling to cut 5-6mm aluminum even with >300psi of high pressure nitrogen, and maybe 12mm 304 or 316. Copper is almost completely reflective, it is used as mirrors inside of a laser to bounce the light around and down to the head and to the material.

A water jet takes a hell of alot longer to setup, and cut say a piece of 12mm black than a laser would, hence a laser is more cost effective, but give a laser a piece of 120mm aluminum and you will have alot of work ahead of you replacing mirrors and lenses due to reflection....oh and it wont cut lol. But a WJ will just chew away at it till its done.

Another option is High Density plasma cut. In most circumstances a laser is just way too much over kill on precision for what is really needed ( i dont really know in keplers case since i cant see an exploded diagram). People have a little wank over it being cnc laser cut when in real life a monkey with a file could have made a perfectly usable part. HD plasma kills in speed on most things, at the expense to a bit of precision. If you havnt had a quote done yet, I would look into it kepler, you might find it very different.

Im all for using higher strength plastic for things like you have already done kepler. Is it HDPE?? very very durable. Cuts like butter on a laser, up to 10mm even a very modest (low power) laser could cut at about 4-5m/min.......making 1 part might take 20secs to do including traversing, it works out very cheap, most work is done around the $200-300 / hour mark of machine time.

Hope it all works out for you though kepler,

Cheers
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Thanks for the info and advice. I presume this is a type of business you have been involved with professionally. Laser cutting is reasonably economical for what i am doing and having the precision ensures the mated edges give little chance of moisture entering the electronics compartments.

I will investigate the HDPE. Do you know if it comes in a gloss or satin finish? Done quite a bit of prototpying with Acrylic using the 4.5mm thick sheet. Dispite a bit of negitive comment on this product, it sure has proven to be more then strong enough and provides a great finish. Very cheap to cut also as you know.(just expensive to buy)

Sticking with Aluminium for now but will continue to test the viability of these other options.
 
Kepler said:
Where did you read that? How can a show posted on the internet not be available to anyone in the world to view?
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That's a common thing to do with web-based video (and radio) shows. Sometimes even entire sections of a website may not be available to people outside a certain area (typically determined by IP range). Most of the broadcast networks do it, and other sources of entertainment.

Why? Because that way they can make money by charging *other* TV broadcasters or websites for the privelege of rebroadcasting those programs, while those others try to make their money back by including local advertising in place of what had been in it originally.

That advertising is the key to the "region licensing" that's done on so much media. There is no monetary point in including ads for Aussie stuff here in the USA, for instance. Most of the products aren't available to buy on the shelf in the USA, and would cost too much to buy via internet, so *very* few sales would be generated by it, and thus not pay for the advertising itself.

The same is true of the shows advertised within other shows--many only have a local interest, though there would be some with worldwide appeal. Local news and talk shows are one example. So advertising those shows outside their local region is (to the advertisers) pointless, as they figure no one will watch those just because they saw an ad within a show they did watch. If they don't watch the second show, then they aren't going to see the ads within that show, and thus having advertised within the first show to them is pointless.

It's all about advertising, marketing, and "knowing" your market's limits. Shows aren't made to entertain. They're made to sell things. Entertainment (and information) happens to be a byproduct of the sales process. ;)
 
Gotta be a way to "You Tube" the show so the rest of us can get a glimpse !!

First post on this thread was February 26, 2010, roughly 4-1/2 months ago? Kepler, soon you'll be on TV and in magazines !
 
spinningmagnets said:
Gotta be a way to "You Tube" the show so the rest of us can get a glimpse !!

First post on this thread was February 26, 2010, roughly 4-1/2 months ago? Kepler, soon you'll be on TV and in magazines !
Click to expand...

I have already said in my above post I recorded the last show an ES member was on and put it on youtube and will also be doing Keplers so people outside of OZ can view it.

KiM
 
Kepler said:
rodgah said:
hey kepler been watching for a while now,
I like the concept its always great to see something that isnt a hub :wink: .

As refers to waterjet vs laser, laser in theory/generally should be atleast 1/3 the price of water due to complexity and speed of cut between the 2, this depends alot on type of material though.

......

Hope it all works out for you though kepler,

Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and advice. I presume this is a type of business you have been involved with professionally. Laser cutting is reasonably economical for what i am doing and having the precision ensures the mated edges give little chance of moisture entering the electronics compartments.

I will investigate the HDPE. Do you know if it comes in a gloss or satin finish? Done quite a bit of prototpying with Acrylic using the 4.5mm thick sheet. Dispite a bit of negitive comment on this product, it sure has proven to be more then strong enough and provides a great finish. Very cheap to cut also as you know.(just expensive to buy)

Sticking with Aluminium for now but will continue to test the viability of these other options.
Click to expand...

Yeah everything from maintaining lasers, programming for them, operating them, and the business side of things. Every day was a struggle to keep a constant work flow because plasma and water are 2 very good alternatives, just depends on what you need to cut. Typically (depending on how lazy the operator is) you can get a tolerances smaller than 0.05mm on a laser, and around 0.5mm on a plasma. Appart from that the parts look identical, cut finish is very much the same, same amount of divergence etc. Keep in mind, cut hole diameters usually cant be smaller than the thickness of the plate, and cutting on both types usually hardens the surface a bit making it hard to tap. Some places offer drilling and tapping aswell, just depends on the machine.

HDPE usually only comes in cutting board white and black. I have only ever seen it in a raw satinish kind of finish but i guess they may make it gloss. I have seen acrylic do some pretty amazing things, theres a crazy old guy around here(where i live) that makes all kinds of inventions out of it. I think even though you would use thicker material to keep the same strength it would still be cheaper than aluminium, and the cutting definitly cheaper.

cheers.
 
spinningmagnets said:
Gotta be a way to "You Tube" the show so the rest of us can get a glimpse !!

First post on this thread was February 26, 2010, roughly 4-1/2 months ago? Kepler, soon you'll be on TV and in magazines !
Click to expand...

4 1/2 months to get to this stage. No wonder the garden is overgrown and jobs around the house are backing up. Got to have your priorities though(ebiking :mrgreen: )
 
Kepler said:
No wonder the garden is overgrown and jobs around the house are backing up. Got to have your priorities though(ebiking :mrgreen: )
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Sheesh man :shock: ... you haven't got the ole' ball and chain very well trained, best get onto her about those lawns and odd jobs mate you have better things to do than wiminez work damnzit!!! :mrgreen: :lol: :p

KiM
 
rodgah said:
Yeah everything from maintaining lasers, programming for them, operating them, and the business side of things. Every day was a struggle to keep a constant work flow because plasma and water are 2 very good alternatives, just depends on what you need to cut. Typically (depending on how lazy the operator is) you can get a tolerances smaller than 0.05mm on a laser, and around 0.5mm on a plasma. Appart from that the parts look identical, cut finish is very much the same, same amount of divergence etc. Keep in mind, cut hole diameters usually cant be smaller than the thickness of the plate, and cutting on both types usually hardens the surface a bit making it hard to tap. Some places offer drilling and tapping aswell, just depends on the machine.

cheers.
Click to expand...

0.5mm wouldnt be acceptable for this device. I need 0.1mm or better to meet the quality I am looking for.
 
AussieJester said:
Kepler said:
No wonder the garden is overgrown and jobs around the house are backing up. Got to have your priorities though(ebiking :mrgreen: )
Click to expand...

Sheesh man :shock: ... you haven't got the ole' ball and chain very well trained, best get onto her about those lawns and odd jobs mate you have better things to do than wiminez work damnzit!!! :mrgreen: :lol: :p

KiM
Click to expand...

I dont want to push my luck too hard. Little matter of having 11 year old tripplets to take care of too :mrgreen: :lol:
 
Kepler said:
I dont want to push my luck too hard. Little matter of having 11 year old tripplets to take care of too :mrgreen: :lol:
Click to expand...

haha fair nuff... my best mates twin girls just turned 17

DSC00338.jpg

he ain't half got his hands full with this pair, you can
just about see his hair going grey right in front of your eyez LoL...

KiM
 
Kepler said:
Wow, gorgeous looking girls. 2 of my 3 are girls too. Scary
Click to expand...

Oh man, enjoy it while they still listen to your LoL... My mates two
are typical teenages know it all can't be told anything anyone older than 21 knows nothing
and know they are lookers on top of it, his words "they are a pair of bitches" said in a
loving way of course...LoL

In regards to the New Inventers, how does this work as far as the filming goes
pre-show, with Carvin Marvin's
appearance on the show they had a nice segment shot down in Tassie at his house
showing his invention in use etc...so i'm guessing there is a camera man and sound
man and producer that show up at your doorstep interview you work out some dialogue
etc? I guess this is still to be done for your appearance? I have been present on set
for filming of 'soapy' type show and its very interesting to watch how they shoot it and then seeing the
final product, scene aren't even shot in order its all willy nilly, actually looks like
organised chaos haha

KiM
 
Done in 2 sections. A days filming locally showing some of your other interests then some bike stuff. This is done in Melbourne. Then go to Sydney the week after for studio shooting.

So 2 days for about 5 minutes air time.

Interesting industry to work in. I worked in the film industry in the late 90s /early 2000's. Had a company called Birdseye Films. We used big remote control helicopters and carried $70,000.00 35mm motion picture cameras. I custom built much of the helis and rigs and shared piloting duties with a work partner. We had 2 cinematographers in the business also. Great business while it lasted. Insurance ended up killing us after 9/11. :cry:
 
In regards to acrylic, I retract my earlier comments re: suitability.

As I pointed out, it's hard to make good comments when information is lacking. This is one of those times. After taking a very close look at the production piece with acrylic side covers, I see that it is quite obvious that the acrylic is not taking any load.

They are taking the place of a paintjob or anodizing. They are completely non-structural. Now that I understand that, I see that my diatribe was unwarranted. You had the right idea, with which I heartily exhort you to carry on.

humbly,

Katou
 
so be sure to tell us when the show is airing keppler, ill watch it for sure, assuming it airs in canberra...

so how long until you are ready to roll out some systems? i found an old racing bike in the garage from previous housemates, just fixed it up to sell, and thinking i could get a system from you, test it out, then sell the bike as electric bike and it wouldnt cost me a thing :D a professional, Australian designed system fully mounted on a bike ready to go, as seen on TV!!! already have some batts ordered that i will not be using, so i might not cancel that order and chuck em in with this bike...

you got a price on the system yet, or not until the parts are cut? also, what voltage does it run?
 
Kepler said:
know the one you mean. It was a good design for the 90's but probably held back by technology. I think evtodd's thread has a bit on it. It used either one or two brushed motors with a roller in the centre. Don’t know how many different types of bikes you could get to fit but was a commendable setup all the same.
Click to expand...

thanks for the tip,
you meant EV Warrior ?
that's not the one I was refering to.
this is between the seat tube, seat stay and the rear wheel.
meant for road bikes only.
very compact unit.

not sure how it engages...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9652&start=60


btw, I am still not clear on how your motor engage the wheel... :?:
mechanical or electrical...?

oh and i used to have an Dimension Edge ICE motor unit/ friction drive using this big ugly lever mounted on the stem.
i did remember the urethane roller wore quickly..
 
found it !

chronos hammer

in this power biking article from PM 1995!

http://books.google.com/books?id=NGYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=chronos+hammer&source=bl&ots=o6L8V6LD3t&sig=5TAzOQFGm4H3-HvS9fJ4ZlupGtU&hl=en&ei=l8Q9TP3mL4PQsAO855zaCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDwQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=chronos%20hammer&f=false
 
bandaro said:
so be sure to tell us when the show is airing keppler, ill watch it for sure, assuming it airs in canberra...

so how long until you are ready to roll out some systems? i found an old racing bike in the garage from previous housemates, just fixed it up to sell, and thinking i could get a system from you, test it out, then sell the bike as electric bike and it wouldnt cost me a thing :D a professional, Australian designed system fully mounted on a bike ready to go, as seen on TV!!! already have some batts ordered that i will not be using, so i might not cancel that order and chuck em in with this bike...

you got a price on the system yet, or not until the parts are cut? also, what voltage does it run?
Click to expand...

I will definitely let eveyone know when the show is on. Its a national show so you do get in Canberra.

I have used the drive on a few race bikes now and it suits them really well. Only thing to consider is the standard drive doesnt suit the really tall frame bikes as the lowest part of the seat post is too high for the drive to make contact with the tire. these are the 60cm plus frames designed for people 6' 2" plus. All is not lost though as I can make stepped side plates to suit these very tall frames if the demand is there. I will be proving a guide for people to do a few quick measurements just to make sure their bike is suitable but so far, it fits about 90% of bikes.

Very close to releasing pricing but still a few items to finalize. I can tell you it will be priced to be an easy decision to buy.

Design votage range is dependant on what ESC and motor you choose. Recomended voltage is 5S 18.5V and 6S 22V. However I am sure some will want to try higher voltages with lower kV motors. The drive is very strong and should handle the stress of a higher voltage setup. However, this is not the recomended setup.
 
sk8norcal said:
found it !

chronos hammer

in this power biking article from PM 1995!

http://books.google.com/books?id=NGYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=chronos+hammer&source=bl&ots=o6L8V6LD3t&sig=5TAzOQFGm4H3-HvS9fJ4ZlupGtU&hl=en&ei=l8Q9TP3mL4PQsAO855zaCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDwQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=chronos%20hammer&f=false
Click to expand...

Yes, thats the one I meant. Great design for its day but looks to be fairly bike specific. I dont think they are made anymore though
 
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