An Interesting Dilemma I Need Your Input

dumbass

100 kW
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Apr 25, 2008
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Chicago Western Sub.
MY bike has twin 24v brushed motors. Until today I have only run both motors at the same time once. At that time I used 2 24v controllers with 1 throttle. Really didn't like the setup so I installed a single 48v controller and 48v throttle. Today was my first ride with the new setup.

In the shop without the drive chains dis-connected one motor runs at 475rpm and the other runs at 500rpm (no load). The motors are wired in series to the single 48v 50a controller. I use the red controller wire to motor #1 red wire. The black wire of motor #1 is connected to the red wire of motor #2 the black wire from motor #2 is then connected back to the controllers black wire. Like I said in series. So like a string Xmas lights they are sharing the voltage/amperage. I took a test ride of about a block yesterday and everything ran great. So to day I took my first long ride. Had I finised it it would have been about 20 miles. About 6 miles on roadway and 14 miles in the forest preserve.

On my way home motor #1 through a chain. Eack motor has it's own freewheel so if one motor craps out the other can keep going. Nice idea if it only worked. As soon as the one motor had no load the second motor stopped pulling too. It would try to nudge the bike but that was all it could do...just no power. I couldn't move the bike even if it was on the kickstank and no one holding it. It was that bad.

Once I got home I checked the motor RPMs. First the motor without the chain. Holly crap it was running at 950 rpm (sounded really cool though). But the second motor with the chain still connected could only try to move but could not even turn 1 rpm. So I removed the second motor's chain and retested both motors. Motor #1 (the one with the missing chain that was running at 950) now pulled 475rpm again and the second motor (that had the chain) could now pull 500 rpm.

Why? Is there a load balance issue? Both motors have to have the same load to truely share the voltage/current? I am guessing the voltage/current goes to the motor with the least load. So as long as they are both under the same load everything is fine. But when the load shifts to one motor that also shifts the voltage and current. I'm not sure this is a good thing or not. While the chains were bot hconnected it seamed like both motors ran fine together. Not as fast as I had expected though but still Ok. I check both motors after about 10 miles of full speed running and I could hold my hand on them both. they were barely warm (outside temp 70F. Thoughts please........

Bob
 
Bob, nice test and thanks for posting those results. The discussion about running two brushed motors from one controller comes up quite often. I have run several setups with either two or three brushed motors from one throttle, but always with multiple controllers.

So when two motors are in series, each pulls half the voltage, as long as they both have equal loads, but when only one motor has a load, the unloaded motor takes all the voltage and spins about double it's normal RPM. Not quite what I would have expected, but then motors don't know anything about their rated voltage, they just try to run at a speed relative to the voltage available to them.

I'm surprised no one has reported this before, such as when running two hub motors from one controller. Everything would seem to be fine until one motor started spinning on ice or something like that.

Guess when someone asks if they can run two motors from one controller, I'll be inclined to recommend against it until I learn more.

Thanks
 
The motor with no load spins at low current and develops back EMF that drops the entire supply voltage. Both motors are getting equal current which is equal TORQUE, but with no load on one that torque level is very low. Actually, all you need to do is stall the "free" motor to get all the torque into the other motor. It is essentially the electrical equivalent of an open differential.
 
Rassy, No that sure wasn't what I expected ether and now I almost wish I had stayed with the 2 controllers. But I don't waht to jump tothat conclusion just yet. As I said it ran great until the chain came of the one motor. So if I can figure out why it came off I think it will be a good setup. The chain was tight when I started out and look ok after the chain came off. But then again the chain was off so I really can't say it didn't slip a little. I will be doing something to ensure it doesn't happen again. This is a temp setup on this bike. As soon as I have time I am going to duplicate it on my old bike. Then install a new brushless motor with belt drive. I think for this setup I might look into elinating the independent freewheels (they won't work this way). Or as I said just eliminate the problem of the chain coming off.

Alan B » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:52 pm

The motor with no load spins at low current and develops back EMF that drops the entire supply voltage. Both motors are getting equal current which is equal TORQUE, but with no load on one that torque level is very low. Actually, all you need to do is stall the "free" motor to get all the torque into the other motor. It is essentially the electrical equivalent of an open differential.

Yeah, the same thinking I was thinking. Of course i couldn't have explained it that way though..LOL

Bob
 
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