Another No Solder/Weld 18650 Build (Updated 03/09/2014)
- Thread starter snath
- Start date
agniusm
1 MW
Regarding foam. Snath gives a link to McMaster Polyurethane rubber that lists 25% deflection at 13-23psi. i was looking to source the material locally but here material hardness is classed in Shore Hardness scale. After some digging i found a sheet that lists Compression Force Deflection Range 15 to 40psi as ShA34. I hope thats right 
Attached the data sheet i used:
View attachment mtrl selct.pdf
Attached the data sheet i used:
View attachment mtrl selct.pdf
snath
100 W
ShA 34 sounds about right.
Just remember that ability to "bounce back" is just as important as hardness. The Rogers Poron products have that property.
Just remember that ability to "bounce back" is just as important as hardness. The Rogers Poron products have that property.
agniusm
1 MW
I thought that is a property of polyurethane or is it? I had a glimpse of term open cell and closed cell. I know that poron is with open cell but what about other polyurethane? Sadly only stuff I can get is 70 to 90 ShA, far to hard. Need some further digging.
snath
100 W
Just use office-type rubber bands.... 107s are about .625 in. wide. You can trim them to width. Will work fine and you can change them out once a year. You may have to adjust (reduce) the spacer bar and side/bottom lengths a little; but not much because they are a little more dense than the poron.
BYqSXt8Z
100 W
Seems to me like the toughest part would be to make the dimpler; I would love to get my hands on a strip with 48 dimples so I can cut/fold/assemble as I need! Looking at making a tiny 18650 or 26650 pack soon.
Any chance you can sell those strips with the dimples? (or a dimpler, but that seems like it would be pricey)
Any chance you can sell those strips with the dimples? (or a dimpler, but that seems like it would be pricey)
jayx
10 mW
My version of dimpling tool. Now once I’m fully set up I can make strips if anyone needs them
snath
100 W
jayx said:My version of dimpling tool. Now once I’m fully set up I can make strips if anyone needs them
View attachment 1
View attachment 2
very good job! no CAD drawings, no XsSp descriptions. just plain dimples in a strip.
All that's left to make a case are sides/bottom/top of polycarbonate, PVC, etc.cut to cell length plus some for compression and ditto for spacers, and ends.
Again, my compliments for a job well done.
Looks like you can make strips for anyone any S, any P. Six P is good. I would suggest leaving the ends a little longer to fold over the ends of the spacer blocks (for positioning when inserting the cell assembly into the case) and to make the "flag ends" for serial connection.
BYqSXt8Z
100 W
jayx said:My version of dimpling tool. Now once I’m fully set up I can make strips if anyone needs them
View attachment 1
View attachment 2
Ah, so jealous! really making me want to build my own
How did you get such nice indents in the metal? Flat bottom carbide bit?
jayx
10 mW
BYqSXt8Z said:Ah, so jealous! really making me want to build my own
How did you get such nice indents in the metal? Flat bottom carbide bit?
That would be too complicated
It's simply thin metal shim with through holes, picture should explain better:
BYqSXt8Z
100 W
jayx said:BYqSXt8Z said:Ah, so jealous! really making me want to build my own
How did you get such nice indents in the metal? Flat bottom carbide bit?
That would be too complicated
ahhh! much smarter than what I thought. I thought it was a solid block... one mess up and it would be useless! Your way is much better
jayx
10 mW
BYqSXt8Z said:ahhh! much smarter than what I thought. I thought it was a solid block... one mess up and it would be useless! Your way is much better
All credits should go to Snath, I've just copied his design
cwah
100 MW
How is it holding up? And where did you get your compression strip and cooper strip?
snath
100 W
cwah said:
Happy New Year!!
Both batteries are holding up well but I have to say, that I haven't a lot of cycles on them yet.
Here's where I get the foam: http://www.mcmaster.com/#poron-urethane-foam/=vam1d3
And, here's where I get My copper: http://basiccopper.com/10-mil-010-inch-.html . You can probably find it in smaller quantities at hobby and/or art stores.
Good luck.
cwah
100 MW
Thank you so much Snath.
I've been looking around and there is also another member that create 18650 pack via magnets:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60517&start=125
It doesn't look as neat as your one, but it does look like a very quick and simple way (no tools required) to create a pack. Rather than creating a punch tool and attach it to a compression band, just use magnets on each cell to insure good connection between the copper strip and the cell.
It's simpler and faster to create.
What do you think?
I've been looking around and there is also another member that create 18650 pack via magnets:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60517&start=125
It doesn't look as neat as your one, but it does look like a very quick and simple way (no tools required) to create a pack. Rather than creating a punch tool and attach it to a compression band, just use magnets on each cell to insure good connection between the copper strip and the cell.
It's simpler and faster to create.
What do you think?
parabellum
1 MW
It is just polite to mention the tread and member. :wink:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60517&p=990679#p990679
TheBeastie
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60517&p=990679#p990679
TheBeastie
snath
100 W
It's been a while since I posted anything but I'm building a couple of 10s4p batteries and another 10s10p (as soon as the cells I ordered from Tumich ( http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608 get here). So far, I've been very pleased with the builds Ive made.
I've gotten a lot of requests for more information on the dimple block so I've attached a PDF of the layout.
View attachment Dapping Block 5 mm.pdf
To use it:
- Cut out a copy and use it to center punch your holes.
- The top block gets all the holes (I'd try some PVC or acrylic about 8mm thick).
- Spacer gets all the holes (Spacer needs to be 1mm thick and the holes need to be 6mm).
- Bottom gets all the holes except the five down the middle (use the same stock as for the top).
- Bottom corner holes get drilled and tapped for 5mm bolts.
- Punch and guide rods are 5mm you may have to ream the holes a little larger or polish the 5mm stock for a sliding fit.
- The punch face and the tops of the holes on the spacer need to have the corners broken slightly so you are making dimples and not discs, ask me how I know .
- Remember, the copper is .25mm (.010 in or 30 B&S gauge) and should be cut into strips ~8mm wide.
I've gotten a lot of requests for more information on the dimple block so I've attached a PDF of the layout.
View attachment Dapping Block 5 mm.pdf
To use it:
- Cut out a copy and use it to center punch your holes.
- The top block gets all the holes (I'd try some PVC or acrylic about 8mm thick).
- Spacer gets all the holes (Spacer needs to be 1mm thick and the holes need to be 6mm).
- Bottom gets all the holes except the five down the middle (use the same stock as for the top).
- Bottom corner holes get drilled and tapped for 5mm bolts.
- Punch and guide rods are 5mm you may have to ream the holes a little larger or polish the 5mm stock for a sliding fit.
- The punch face and the tops of the holes on the spacer need to have the corners broken slightly so you are making dimples and not discs, ask me how I know
.- Remember, the copper is .25mm (.010 in or 30 B&S gauge) and should be cut into strips ~8mm wide.
snath
100 W
A Gaffer Tape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape build.
This is the most simple build that I've made yet. It's taped together....... Well, the box (sides 093, ends and top and bottom .062 polycarbonate) joints are taped up but the cell holder matrix, spacer bars, bus bars, and Poron foam compression strips remain the same.
Here are some pictures.
View attachment 2
Final dimensions: 8.125"x4.5"x3".
This is the most simple build that I've made yet. It's taped together....... Well, the box (sides 093, ends and top and bottom .062 polycarbonate) joints are taped up but the cell holder matrix, spacer bars, bus bars, and Poron foam compression strips remain the same.
Here are some pictures.
View attachment 2
Final dimensions: 8.125"x4.5"x3".
IdleMind
100 W
Thanks for posting in such detail. I have recently built a few small solderless packs myself and they function great. However, some of your techniques look especially clever and I might use them when I do a bigger pack. You have been very helpful.
Mammalian04
100 kW
I'm also enjoying the creativity, but more importantly, the practicality you are bringing! Nice Work!
snath
100 W
Hi all,
I'm about to begin my 4p batteries but I think I'll make a couple of changes to the materials I use. First, I'll use 3/16 inch PVC (I used nylon on the last one and didn't like the way the holes tapped out) rod for the spacers and 2-56 screws to hold everything together. I think this will place fewer demands (via smaller holes) on the cell holders..... they're kind of fragile.
I will also provide picture(s) of the spacers that i put in the top of the battery to lock the bent over bus bar tabs in place and to provide clearance for the wires and Andersons.
I'm trying to come up with a way to easily make the spacer bars. They are perhaps the hardest part to make without a lathe. Hopefully, I'll have something soon.
snath
I'm about to begin my 4p batteries but I think I'll make a couple of changes to the materials I use. First, I'll use 3/16 inch PVC (I used nylon on the last one and didn't like the way the holes tapped out) rod for the spacers and 2-56 screws to hold everything together. I think this will place fewer demands (via smaller holes) on the cell holders..... they're kind of fragile.
I will also provide picture(s) of the spacers that i put in the top of the battery to lock the bent over bus bar tabs in place and to provide clearance for the wires and Andersons.
I'm trying to come up with a way to easily make the spacer bars. They are perhaps the hardest part to make without a lathe. Hopefully, I'll have something soon.
snath
snath
100 W
Ok,
Here's a way to make bus bars without much tooling. Alls required is an embossing die from a craft store like, in the US, Michaels or Joann Fabrics. The one we want comes in a package of 3 and looks like this:
The dimples are spaced about 10mm apart so we want to cut off every other male part of the die like so (I ground mine down so it was smooth).
View attachment 2
Make a Gaffer tape hinge and stick a strip of .010 copper between the two halves (the bumps adjacent will position everything nicely) and squash it in a vice.
Here's a 4p bus bar. It can make 7p.
I promised a way to make spacer bars so tomorrow when I get my 3/16 inch PVC rod, I'll try something that's been rattling around in my head for the last couple of days. I think it will work and with that, the Gaffer tape assembly technique, and the busbar method described above, anybody should be able to make a snathpack. Oh, and don't let the lack of Poron foam deter you, just use size 107 office rubber bands and cut them down to size. They'll probably last as long as the cells.
snath
Here's a way to make bus bars without much tooling. Alls required is an embossing die from a craft store like, in the US, Michaels or Joann Fabrics. The one we want comes in a package of 3 and looks like this:
The dimples are spaced about 10mm apart so we want to cut off every other male part of the die like so (I ground mine down so it was smooth).
View attachment 2
Make a Gaffer tape hinge and stick a strip of .010 copper between the two halves (the bumps adjacent will position everything nicely) and squash it in a vice.
Here's a 4p bus bar. It can make 7p.
I promised a way to make spacer bars so tomorrow when I get my 3/16 inch PVC rod, I'll try something that's been rattling around in my head for the last couple of days. I think it will work and with that, the Gaffer tape assembly technique, and the busbar method described above, anybody should be able to make a snathpack. Oh, and don't let the lack of Poron foam deter you, just use size 107 office rubber bands and cut them down to size. They'll probably last as long as the cells.
snath
drbenjamin
10 mW
Any progress on a simple approach to the spacer bars? I'd love to build one of these, and may try hand tapping some holes in the end of 1/4" rods if needed! Also, you indicated in your OP that the Poron foam is compressed 25%, and later on in the thread linked to a McMaster part number that is 1/16" thick foam. So does the box need to be cut and assembled with a tolerance of 1/64"? For us mortals would it work to use the 1/4" firm foam and have more leeway? Or am I misunderstanding the dimensions and compression?
Thanks so much, this is really a remarkable design and addresses my main complaint w/ battery packs, having to toss the whole pack when 1 or 2 cells go bad.
Thanks so much, this is really a remarkable design and addresses my main complaint w/ battery packs, having to toss the whole pack when 1 or 2 cells go bad.
snath
100 W
Hi,
The previous poster asked about compression strip thickness/amount of squeeze. Here's my take after some half dozen batteries: It's not critical but you do want a definite amount of squeeze so that you make good contact. I would shy away from thick rubber/foam and stick with the 1/6" Poron or 107 office rubber bands. Again, what you are looking for is 10 to 15 thousands of compression per side for good contact.
Now. a few weeks ago, I'd promised a way to make spacer bars that wouldn't require much in the way of exotic tools. So, here goes.
View attachment 1
The previous poster asked about compression strip thickness/amount of squeeze. Here's my take after some half dozen batteries: It's not critical but you do want a definite amount of squeeze so that you make good contact. I would shy away from thick rubber/foam and stick with the 1/6" Poron or 107 office rubber bands. Again, what you are looking for is 10 to 15 thousands of compression per side for good contact.
Now. a few weeks ago, I'd promised a way to make spacer bars that wouldn't require much in the way of exotic tools. So, here goes.
View attachment 1
