Anyone have Lectric XP 3.0 Battery/motor experience?

[Talzoid]

I am trying to figure out a few longevity/range issues and Lectric doesn't have great documentation on their bikes/batteries/motor readily available. My main issue stems from the fact they have the cutoff on their battery 2v higher then the display shows in settings (locked value at 40v but cuts out at 42.5) The first long ride I had this presented an issue and I had to bike 6 miles on a 75Lb bike (bike weighs 62ish with locks, saddle bags, back rack and my 185lb self (not counting the fact i was 200lb at the time, It's amazing how fast you can lose extra weight once you start biking again after 15+years) Anyway Back to the details I need help with.
I have come up with two scenarios as to why I only got 24 miles out of a fully charged 48v 14ah battery on pedal assist 2 (site claims 50 at this level and I understand weight is a factor.... but 50%?) Scenario #1.) I have a 48v nominal battery that max charges to 4.2v (per cell) and safety cuts out with each cell at 3.23 to prevent damage to the cell causing me to lose approximately 40% of the battery. Now I deem this as the "best case scenario" for the company because that means even though I'm unhappy, I will run the battery down faster and have to buy a new battery sooner (as the high end discharge of a battery cycles faster.)
Scenario #2.) I have a 50v nominal battery and am instead under charging the battery to 3.92v per cell losing ~17% on the top end and discharging it to 3v losing ~25% on the bottom for safety still losing over 40% of my battery range but instead causing the battery to last up to twice as long. This is the one I am hoping more for because this is one I can fix should I decide to completely Void warranty and upgrade with a better bms, controller and potentially display (depending on compatibility.)
Since I am fairly new in the e-bike area I am wondering if anyone on here has tinkered with the stock battery, bms, or motor to get more detailed info on exactly what is inside and if it is advisable to go ahead and start meddling with the components. I really enjoy having a working e-bike that has been filling my needs for transportation BUT the range is SEVERLY lacking on the stock battery, so any help would be appreciated. (Also I know of adding a second battery but this also voids warranty and is the other option I am looking at)

 

[amberwolf]

You could have something as simple as a failing / defective cell(group), or several; it's pretty common for even "good quality" ebike batteries to not be identical in characteristics when new (not built from sets of well-matched cells), and that only grows worse with age.

If the system actually turns off, no power, then this is probably what is happening.

If the system remains powered on, but no longer runs the motor, then the battery has simply emptied enough to be below the controller's LVC (which is higher than that of the BMS, because the BMS is a last-ditch emergency protection to prevent cell damage that can lead to a fire, and isn't intended as an everyday shutdown mechanism).



To answer the questions of what your battery actually is, you'd have to do some tests:

Install a wattmeter (or coulometer) that you can install between the battery and the system, so you can find out:
--what your actual capacity is (Ah and Wh) from full down to empty
--what your actual Wh/mile power usage is

Open the pack and measure:
What voltages do you actually measure at each cell(group) at full charge?
What voltages do you actually measure at each cell(group) at system shutdown?


Regarding adding a second battery--how will they know you've done this?


Regarding range--what you actually get out of any system depends on the specific usage and riding conditions. Almost always, range estimates provided are extremely generous (to use nice terminology), and are for perfect riding conditions on flat terrain with zero winds and gentle usage (perfect gear shifting to keep as much of the load on the rider as possible and as little as possible on the motor and battery), and may even include using "jockey" type riders (as light as possible), riding continuously with no stops, and riding in as much of a tuck as possible with "slick" clothing for best aerodynamics.

If your riding style, usage, and conditions aren't those or better, it's likely you won't get that range, and if you have sufficient hills and/or wind and/or a lot of stops and starts (especially with higher weight) then you could indeed get a very low range compared to advertised. Poor road conditions (or offroad) and/or poor tire condition/type/pressure also decrease range.

If you won't / don't want to install a wattmeter to measure your real usage, you could guesstimate the usage by using Strava or similar to map your routes / terrain, making your own notations about wind and road conditions, and input that into the trip simulator at ebikes.ca with a guesstimate of the system parts of your ebike (controller, motor, battery) to get estimated power usage over distance.

 

[E-HP]

Their cutoff settings will provide longer battery life so that you don’t have tp replace the battery as often, Nice to see they’re doing that.
The battery is likely cutting out due to voltage sag when you’re around 42.5v, but hard to tell since you didn’t provide much about your riding style, terrain, etc. I could have missed it, since it was a pretty big wall of text, and I almost gave up after digressing about having to pedal home. The fat tires were probably a bigger factor than the weight though.
24 miles may be a little low, but on the other hand, expecting 29 miles seems a bit optimistic. Can’t say without the riding conditions. I see a lot of those bikes around. If you keep your riding radius to 10 miles, you can still have lots of fun, and not have the range anxiety. If you’re going to replace everything, then chuck the bike and build one with non fat tires, if you really want more range.

 

[docw009]

24 miles on a full charged Lectric 3.0 with a 48V14.5AH battery? It's only a 14.5AH battery in the test labs. In real life, on an ebike, I'd call it a 12AH battery, That's still 600 WH. Divide by 24 milesfor 25WH.mile. That is pretty high, unless you're at 20 mph. Are brakes dragging or is the rear tire rubbing the frame? Only running 8 PSI for a soft ride? I agree with amberwolf im that you might have a somewhat unbalanced battery, but if it runs down to 42 volts, that's not unusual.
.
I had a similar 20" fat tire folding bike to the Lectric and that was around 12 wh/mile at 12 mph. My other bikes are around 8-10 WH/mile, while my wife who weighs 60lb less than me is at 6 wh/mile, I derive the WH by measuring how much it takes to recharge my batteries, so it's a repeatable test, I also own test gear that can drain my ebike packs and measure the AH. I never get the advertised AH even at low current drains, Always at least 10% less. Often more on older batteries.

I tjonls it's common for batteries to wink out at 3.2V/cell, They're at 30% capacity and unless you have a good number of cells in parallel, a little added throttle may cause them to temporily sag .2V. High quality cells, like Samsung, Panasonic, or LG will not sag as much either.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the 80%-20% charge philosophy.

 

[Talzoid]

To Amberwolf: While I would love to take the measurements you suggested I regularly have less then $20 spare cash every month to purchase the needed equipment so guesstimations are the only way (my bike was a gift from my son to increase my job searching/employability radius off the bus line which is terrible) The system remained on but the motor cut out, as I said when I went into the settings to see what the cutoff value was it was set to 40v, however this value was locked so I assume the bms in the battery is actually what was set to 42v.

To E-hp and docw009: Additional information I did not add due to my wall text is the trip was an average of 14mph over the 30 total mile trip and only coasting down as many hills as I could. Tire psi was set to 30 and Here is the elevation changes of the rout as well and added to this I knew I might run low so I did bring my charger and did a 1 hour charge (2 amp charger that gained me another 1.8 volts between 48-49.8) as I ate lunch knowing I'd have to stop and eat as well for the 3+ hour trip

P.S. from start to the center of the second big lump on the left equates to about 5 miles of the trip. Also that is the elivation change TO my destination and reverse it for the trip home.

 

[E-HP]

To Amberwolf: While I would love to take the measurements you suggested I regularly have less then $20 spare cash every month to purchase the needed equipment so guesstimations are the only way (my bike was a gift from my son to increase my job searching/employability radius off the bus line which is terrible) The system remained on but the motor cut out, as I said when I went into the settings to see what the cutoff value was it was set to 40v, however this value was locked so I assume the bms in the battery is actually what was set to 42v.

To E-hp and docw009: Additional information I did not add due to my wall text is the trip was an average of 14mph over the 30 total mile trip and only coasting down as many hills as I could. Tire psi was set to 30 and Here is the elevation changes of the rout as well and added to this I knew I might run low so I did bring my charger and did a 1 hour charge (2 amp charger that gained me another 1.8 volts between 48-49.8) as I ate lunch knowing I'd have to stop and eat as well for the 3+ hour trip

P.S. from start to the center of the second big lump on the left equates to about 5 miles of the trip. Also that is the elivation change TO my destination and reverse it for the trip home.

If the system remained on, then it wouldn’t be the BMS, since everything would be dead if it tripped. I think it’s voltage sag causing the controller to cutout. Factory range estimates assume ideal conditions and flat ground so you lose more up hill and without regen you don’t recover any of that except by coasting.