Anyone used the 1500w ebay hub motor?

markz said:
Hummina Shadeeba said:
i got 233mm for the flange from hole to hole. i'll look for the thread and see what others got. but should i do 1x or radial you think and 12 or 13 gauge ok?

also i have two 20" rims and one says its 390mm ird but i line it up with the other rim that's written up as 388 and it's got a greater distance not less. Envy rim at 390 and the Promax claims 388. i see the Promax at at least 400mm assuming the envy is even 390

1X is ideal, but smaller rim 20" may need a radial lace. I would start off with a 1X and see how it goes with a dry run and if its too tight go for a radial. Looking at spoke angle from hers://ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html?pair=false&rim=20P17
Spoke Angle: This is the angle between the spoke and the tangent line of the rim. Generally speaking, if the angle is more than 80 degrees then it can be laced with relative ease. If the angle is less than 75 degrees, then the spoke nipples will have some difficulty in angling in the same direction as the spokes, and you may need to either put a bend in the spoke so that it enters the rim a bit more radially, or drill out the rim holes slightly larger so that the nipples have more freedom to pivot. Angles less than about 70 degrees are quite problematic and best avoided.


Two rims that close you wont notice any difference and its measured from just beyond the spoke hole inside the rim to the other side.

wow great link thanks. seems 1x is too sharp an angle and i'll do radial. just seems weird as its a big no-no on a front wheel with disk brakes and would be probably applying the same torque. you think 12 or 13 gauge?

15mm length difference between radial and 1x.
it shows 79.9mm with radial. bit different than what this shows https://spokelengthcalculator.com/
 
I would go with 13g from these guys
https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/spokes/spcust13b.html


Hummina Shadeeba said:
you think 12 or 13 gauge?

15mm length difference between radial and 1x.
it shows 79.9mm with radial. bit different than what this shows https://spokelengthcalculator.com/
 
markz said:
I would go with 13g from these guys
https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/spokes/spcust13b.html


Hummina Shadeeba said:
you think 12 or 13 gauge?

15mm length difference between radial and 1x.
it shows 79.9mm with radial. bit different than what this shows https://spokelengthcalculator.com/

alright thanks. i'll get them there and about time i spend some money at grin
 
markz said:
I would go with 13g from these guys
https://ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/spokes/spcust13b.html


Hummina Shadeeba said:
you think 12 or 13 gauge?

15mm length difference between radial and 1x.
it shows 79.9mm with radial. bit different than what this shows https://spokelengthcalculator.com/

wow just over 50$ less to get four wheels worth from grin than this place i was about to order from:
https://sunnyspokes.com/cart

thanks for all your help. done.
 
999zip999 said:
I would add torque arms and norlock washers.

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/reference/nord-lock-user-manual.pdf?nv=res
surprised to see norlock washers perform better with wd40 than bare.

but they're designed to not loosen, how about trying to fix the motor axle so it doesnt move at all? since will use regen I dont want to be rocking back and forth braking and accelerating. I assume you cant get enough friction between the motor and the dropout with the bolted down m14 nuts for that to happen right? yes very unlikely. be nice though.
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
I assume you cant get enough friction between the motor and the dropout with the bolted down m14 nuts for that to happen right? yes very unlikely. be nice though.
Friction will only help keep the axle nuts from loosening relative to the dropouts. It will have no effect on keeping the axle from twisting back and forth. The only thing keeping the axle from twisting are the soft aluminum dropouts, which is why torque arms are a necessary component unless you are running low power. I was reminded how soft aluminum is when I was filing my dropouts last week. Even with a super fine toothed jeweler's file, it cut the aluminum like butter with a few light strokes.
 
Always use torque arms on steel frames but especially so on aluminum frames. The last thing you want to happen is the axle to spin and damage wires and leave you stranded with 'the long walk home'
 
I only have steel frames and getting some other torque arms made that I’ll glue into the frame and are very tight fit on the motor axle, but still I’d like to have the motor axle not rock at all if u have any ideas. Be nice if the motor was ridged or something like the norloc washers.

A tapered shim maybe that was clamped in by the axle nut.
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
I only have steel frames and getting some other torque arms made that I’ll glue into the frame and are very tight fit on the motor axle, but still I’d like to have the motor axle not rock at all if u have any ideas. Be nice if the motor was ridged or something like the norloc washers.

A tapered shim maybe that was clamped in by the axle nut.

I hammered in a piece of razor blade between the torque arm hole and the axle flat so there is zero movement. Took extra time to get the torque arm off the other day when fixing my tire, but at least I know the axle won't move even with regular accelerating and regenning.
 
TBH I've made some really half ass torque arms for my ebikes with 1/4" x 1" x 5" flat steel from HD/Lowes and took an angle grinder to it. No matter what, they would always work. Some of the worser(sp?) t.a.'s would always work, with an ever so slight angular movement of the axle. My old blue Townie Electra was a good example, after a few t.a.s cut with the worse one on that bike, the actual dropout of the bicycle where the bicycle wheel slides onto the frame, the aluminum of the flats on the dropout really wasnt that bad. Mind you I wasnt using much power, I'd say 1500W.

Making a notch for the hose clamps and a notch for the axle to sit in.

The axle notches were never very accurate but they were close enough. Sometimes only half the notch would fit snug, the notch would have been 2cm deep and the width is whatever the axle width is.

I always found it better to use a wider cut off wheel but only did that once in my half dozen pairs of t.a.
but my grinder would always have a thin blade so thats what I'd use.

I'd cut the two sides (where the axle flats snug up on) and try to grind away between them with V cuts, angle cuts to clear out the middle.

I'd always cut the axle width to short having to use the side of the cutoff wheel to widen ever so slightly. And often just seeing if the steel would go in all the way. Mind you the third surface was really bumpy from the cutoff wheels (aside from the sides and open end)

Half the time I'd scribe using a caliper, other half a ruler. It'd always be to short.

My test to see angular movement of axle under power, would simulate by using an adjustable wrench, on the axle flats and see how much movement there was of the axle. If it seemed like yeah sure it was aight, done deal and ride. Even with movement, and 3 or 4 of them always had some slight movement. But like I said the frames dropout flats werent that bad, I could probably even literally take a picture for you if you'd like of the frames d.o.'s. The movement, would be adjustable wrench with handle 4-5" would be 1-2cm at the end of the wrench. For all the technical peeps out there in ES world.
 
Fuuuuuck!!! Seems 13 gauge nipples don’t fit in standard rims. I got spokes for four wheels cut and none will fit the four rims or any rims I have. What the hell do they make 13 and 12 gauge spokes and nipples for....I guess not standard rims. Damn and custom cut spokes aren’t returnable. 250$ for nothing.

Half the rims have eyelets and I can’t drill them wider. Don’t want to be doing that anyway.

If ur interested ill sell u:
(75) 186mm spokes
(75) 78mm spokes.
Black Sapim 13g.
And nipples
 
markz said:
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Fuuuuuck!!!

What do the holes measure on the rim?
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-digital-caliper-63711.html

looks like 4 mm. maybe i should drill the rims that dont have eyelets and save some money?


ive built at least 10 wheels in my life and never thought twice about if the nipple would fit the rim. 260$!! so annoyed.
 
It's not a hard problem to prevail over. If you use bicycle rims, use 14 gauge or thinner spokes.

Thicker spokes are for motorcycle rims, or for people who don't understand things.

P.S. - maybe look for some thinner 13ga nipps? Most of the 13 ga spokes I've worked with have normal bicycle sized nipples that fit in eyeleted rims.
 
Balmorhea said:
It's not a hard problem to prevail over. If you use bicycle rims, use 14 gauge or thinner spokes.

Thicker spokes are for motorcycle rims, or for people who don't understand things.

P.S. - maybe look for some thinner 13ga nipps? Most of the 13 ga spokes I've worked with have normal bicycle sized nipples that fit in eyeleted rims.

getting spokes at a bike store i doubt i could even get 12 or 13 gauge spokes but i got them at Grin.

I got all this money from being bought out by my landlord in san francisco and it's flying towards stuff that's a waste. i have that hub you sold me sitting here as well. someone somewhere wants these spokes. i bought new spokes. 14 gauge.


14 gauge is strong enough with 36 spokes and this hub and 20" bmx rims right? will use the vesc which can do 150amps and ...i dont know what kv the motor is but i think maxes out at like 35mph
 
Torque doesn't stress spokes much at all because it's distributed among all of them. If there's enough spoke tension, and a large enough quantity of spokes, normal riding loads don't cause any problems either. The most challenging forces they deal with are side loads on the wheels. That's exaggerated when the hub flanges are closely spaced, as with most hub motors. So for these forces, thicker spokes can have some limited benefit. But if you're side loading your wheels that much, you're doing it wrong.

I've said it before, and I'll probably have to say it more: The thinner the spokes, the greater the load a wheel can carry reliably with a given rim. The strength of the wheel is in the rim, not the spokes.
 
E-HP said:
Maybe something like this?

https://wheelbuilder.com/sapim-brass-reduction-nipple-13g/

I've used those many times. They work fine; they are easier to round off than regular 14ga Sapim nipples, because they're thinner-walled.
 
E-HP said:
Maybe something like this?

https://wheelbuilder.com/sapim-brass-reduction-nipple-13g/

thanks. nice find. im getting the thinner spokes anyway. these 13 gauge with 36 of them seems insanely overbuilt at least on the front wheels especially with a these little rims.
so a waste of money. if anyone wants these spokes and nipples let me know and give them cheap


so with the thinner spokes being a stronger wheel than with the thicker...how would that work? I guess the thinner spoke is more likely to break, and I've done that, but its not a big deal to fix, verse i guess the thin spoke stretches or something allowing more even weight distribution and better loading of the rim?
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
so with the thinner spokes being a stronger wheel than with the thicker...how would that work? I guess the thinner spoke is more likely to break, and I've done that, but its not a big deal to fix, verse i guess the thin spoke stretches or something allowing more even weight distribution and better loading of the rim?

The strength of the wheel comes from the rim, not the spokes. Read it as many times as necessary. Go ahead and read it again.

The job of the spokes is to support the rim, which they can only do by being stretchy enough to follow it and stay taut as it flexes under load. Thinner spokes are stretchier, so the rim can be loaded up more heavily before spokes go slack. (A slack spoke is the same as no spoke, in terms of supporting the rim.)

Spokes very rarely break from overload. Mostly they break from fatigue. That's preventable by proper stress relieving when you build the wheel. Sometimes they break from penetrating corrosion, which happens to stainless steel when it's exposed to free chlorine, like when bikes are stored near pool chemicals or bleaches. So don't do that. The only times I see spokes break from overload is when a foreign object poked into the wheel, or the bike was hit by a car. As often as not, the spoke tears through the rim or the hub flange before it breaks.

So if your bike is being constructed for the purpose of demolition derby, or jamming things into the spokes while you're riding, then by all means use nice thick spokes (and rims). But if you want the most reliable wheel that will tolerate the largest possible loads without trouble, then use thin spokes.

Because... the strength of the wheel is in the rim, not the spokes.
 
Maybe. But for the sake of not talking trump ..surely they don’t use bike spokes on motorcycles and instead use those huge spokes for a reason. What ft/lbs will snap a 36 spoke 20” rim? If the esc is programmed to 150 motor amps and say 20 kv what is ideal? I imagine bmx rims are pretty overbuilt.


And how to know the spoke tension and what’s ideal on the rear radial 36 spoke 20” rim ?
 
People use thicker spokes for looks.

As you can tell by my builds I've never been a fan of fancy looking ebikes. TBH I am very hesitant to swap everything over to a brand new Trek 700X50C cuz the current frame is bad, busted seat tube, mis-threaded bb cup, and a funky 3rd bar in the triangle messing up my battery placement.

https://www.parktool.com/product/spoke-tension-meter-tm-1
Might not fit on the spokes with 20" bicycle rim.

The smaller diameter the wheel the stronger it is. Ultimate durability comes from using motorcycle and moped rims which come at the cost of they are heavy. You will get less flats as the tires are thicker then bicycle tires. Motorcycle rims are smaller then bicycle rims.
https://www.electricbike.com/moped-rims-tires-hubmotors/

Go for ultimate durability which means buy good quality components no matter which way you go.
 
Chalo helped LFP with his drive wheel problems on his bike with the monster motor mid drive that could power wheelie at any speed despite his long wheelbase and forward CG. After snapping thick spokes and rim problems, the solution ended up being quality double butted 14ga spokes.
 
markz said:
People use thicker spokes for looks.

As you can tell by my builds I've never been a fan of fancy looking ebikes. TBH I am very hesitant to swap everything over to a brand new Trek 700X50C cuz the current frame is bad, busted seat tube, mis-threaded bb cup, and a funky 3rd bar in the triangle messing up my battery placement.

https://www.parktool.com/product/spoke-tension-meter-tm-1
Might not fit on the spokes with 20" bicycle rim.

The smaller diameter the wheel the stronger it is. Ultimate durability comes from using motorcycle and moped rims which come at the cost of they are heavy. You will get less flats as the tires are thicker then bicycle tires. Motorcycle rims are smaller then bicycle rims.
https://www.electricbike.com/moped-rims-tires-hubmotors/

Go for ultimate durability which means buy good quality components no matter which way you go.
I once had that spoke tension tool but no longer. What tension would be right though? Doubt I could even fit that tool on the little spokes

Thanks for this link and great info. Got me worried my standard 20” bmx rims aren’t going to survive 150 motor amps.

The bend of the spoke in the hole of the flange doesn’t look secure. The head doesn’t sit flush.
 
Moto rims have holes that are angled for better alignment.

20" bicycle/bmx rim can be as strong as anything out there, using quality parts. Check out Chalo's posts through the search feature.
 
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