Aptera is gone for good. :'(
- Thread starter liveforphysics
- Start date
Harold in CR
100 kW
Been reading some more on the Aptera Forum. According to one of the original partners, all that body work being crushed was the ORIGINAL prototypes. They were completely stripped from all parts and safety roll bars, then crushed, and adding comments like, " Glad I wasn't riding in that unsafe bodywork. There was NO frame or anything in there.
This is stuff that was NOT patented or copyrighted. That GM Exec, was a real asshole. He even had a woman as CFO, that was in deep shit with the SEC, and, between the 2 of them, they helped Bankrupt DELPHI. That was a major contributor to supply GM with OEM parts.
They were hired by another outfit, that the original partners hired to help them get to market.
This whole thing smells like a cesspool.
I believe the original guys might be looking to restart the Aptera, under another spinoff name, Aptera 2E. That would be an all electric vehicle. The original was never intended to be a car. It was a gosiline powered motorcycle, then, went to a Hybrid, then, the asshole took over.
This is stuff that was NOT patented or copyrighted. That GM Exec, was a real asshole. He even had a woman as CFO, that was in deep shit with the SEC, and, between the 2 of them, they helped Bankrupt DELPHI. That was a major contributor to supply GM with OEM parts.
They were hired by another outfit, that the original partners hired to help them get to market.
This whole thing smells like a cesspool.
I believe the original guys might be looking to restart the Aptera, under another spinoff name, Aptera 2E. That would be an all electric vehicle. The original was never intended to be a car. It was a gosiline powered motorcycle, then, went to a Hybrid, then, the asshole took over.
USAEBIKECO
10 kW
I wanted one of those aptera cars. They should have been on display at auto shows across the world. Then Aptera should have kept their costs low to stay afloat. $150 million is a ton of cash to blow through.
Im very dissapointed they went under. Lessons learned!
Im very dissapointed they went under. Lessons learned!
bigmoose
1 MW
lester12483 said:
Not by GM (Government/General Motor's) standards, where a fully burdened engineer would cost $300 to $350 K/year! Now add in a handfull of croney "directors" getting $5 Mil/year and look at the outcome:
$150M - 6 execs@$5Mea = $120Mil = 342 engineering years... WOW that IS a lot, even at GM rates to blow through! Yikes! Where did it all go? ... ah forgot the private plane and the hunting lodge... and the drinks at the "marketing gatherings..." Oh and of course the entourage that likely did multiple China trips to "coordinate technology transfer..." Then there are the boxes of cookies for the staff at Christmas time... Oh, that's right, they declared bankruptcy before Christmas...
We should have a look at history to see what happens when a "new" industry forms (although Electric cars have been around for over 100 years).
Look at the dot com era. There were a lot of businesses that formed and many of them went bust and the internet industry shrunk before gaining momentum again that today it is bigger than the dot com era.
A similar thing is happening with the electric car industry although I do also believe that there are some out there who do not want to see the Electric Vehicle Industry succeed.
I also believe the other problem is that a number of the established auto makers have spent too much Research and Development (R&D) dollars on Internal Combustion Engines and getting them to be more fuel efficient that they want to seen a Return On Investment (ROI) on those R&D dollars.
When some of them do release an Electric Car, it seems to have a limited range and it is noticeable more expensive than the Internal Combustion Engine equivalent model. I get the feeling many established auto makers feel they are in a situation where they don't want to take a leap of faith and rather stick to what they are comfortable with or if they do release an Electric Car, they want to make a massive profit. This risk adverse thinking may work out for them, but if there is a sudden oil shortage, then this thinking could back fire.
I can't really speak for the established car makers, but that is my guess of what could be going on in their minds. There could be more. I wouldn't know.
With these factors in mind, I believe the Electric Vehicle Industry being propelled by EV enthusiasts and people who MUST have one, which will in my opinion keep the Electric Car Conversion and Electric Vehicle Conversion industries (suppliers, consultants, engineers etc) occupied for a few years to come.
Look at the dot com era. There were a lot of businesses that formed and many of them went bust and the internet industry shrunk before gaining momentum again that today it is bigger than the dot com era.
A similar thing is happening with the electric car industry although I do also believe that there are some out there who do not want to see the Electric Vehicle Industry succeed.
I also believe the other problem is that a number of the established auto makers have spent too much Research and Development (R&D) dollars on Internal Combustion Engines and getting them to be more fuel efficient that they want to seen a Return On Investment (ROI) on those R&D dollars.
When some of them do release an Electric Car, it seems to have a limited range and it is noticeable more expensive than the Internal Combustion Engine equivalent model. I get the feeling many established auto makers feel they are in a situation where they don't want to take a leap of faith and rather stick to what they are comfortable with or if they do release an Electric Car, they want to make a massive profit. This risk adverse thinking may work out for them, but if there is a sudden oil shortage, then this thinking could back fire.
I can't really speak for the established car makers, but that is my guess of what could be going on in their minds. There could be more. I wouldn't know.
With these factors in mind, I believe the Electric Vehicle Industry being propelled by EV enthusiasts and people who MUST have one, which will in my opinion keep the Electric Car Conversion and Electric Vehicle Conversion industries (suppliers, consultants, engineers etc) occupied for a few years to come.
John in CR
100 TW
They crushed the body shells they had??? Regardless of the stage of completion that's absolutely disgusting.
Harold in CR
100 kW
No, they completely disassembled the PREVIOUS cars that the original partners had built, then, crushed THOSE bodies. ALL the original Apteras were NOT connected to the "NEW" company. That's why they were crushed. The "NEW" management never completed their first car.
Go to the Aptera Forum and read all this, posted by the original partner.
Go to the Aptera Forum and read all this, posted by the original partner.
j3tch1u
10 kW
quite a shame. i loved that car. it was ahead of its time. i smell something fishy behind the scenes. hope a phoenix may rise from the ashes.
I think you mean an entire trawler full of rotting aquatic life.j3tch1u said:
disgusting
crowd of jerks, re tar ds and moral de gene rats
ones who been executing and ones who been taking it on camera (and on youtube)
...
smashing Aptera prototypes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGGhH1LlUUE&feature=BFa&list=ULyGqhKLFS62k&lf=mfu_in_order
not even speaking of everything else...
crowd of jerks, re tar ds and moral de gene rats
ones who been executing and ones who been taking it on camera (and on youtube)
...
smashing Aptera prototypes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGGhH1LlUUE&feature=BFa&list=ULyGqhKLFS62k&lf=mfu_in_order
not even speaking of everything else...
Jason27
10 kW
Aptera just mismanaged their capital. They should have taken it slow and build on the momentum. I would have loved seeing those cars on the highways.
Harold in CR
100 kW
How can you possibly state this ?? That GM stoolie and his female counterpart, Bankrupted DELPHI, before they went in and took down Aptera.
Since they came into Aptera, not 1 single car was built, and, they destroyed all the prototypes, to boot ??
Have you been to the Aptera 2E forum, and read all this ???
Lock
100 MW
http://www.torquenews.com/1075/apte...d-zaptera?goback=.gde_147033_member_112625315
Full article in the link...
From here, a scene at the Beijing Motor Show:
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/3...2e-resurfaces-in-china-as-zap-jonway-product/
Lock
Full article in the link...
From here, a scene at the Beijing Motor Show:
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/3...2e-resurfaces-in-china-as-zap-jonway-product/
Lock
Zaptera USA only $20k more than chinese ver.
http://www.gizmag.com/aptera-independent-production-us/27868/
the added cost goes toward paying high american wages needed for breakthru hi-tech r&d to solve that tricky door latch problem that's been plagueing mankind.
good thing it didn't go the way of an 'elch test'
and maybe a few bux thrown towards increasing range beyond 34 real-world miles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jbVvK2bKz0k#t=111
http://www.gizmag.com/aptera-independent-production-us/27868/
the added cost goes toward paying high american wages needed for breakthru hi-tech r&d to solve that tricky door latch problem that's been plagueing mankind.
good thing it didn't go the way of an 'elch test'
[youtube]uPhXMGI3EKA[/youtube]
and maybe a few bux thrown towards increasing range beyond 34 real-world miles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jbVvK2bKz0k#t=111
Dauntless
100 TW
Wow, just think of all the people who are going to DIE because of the fantasy of the Aptera as a good thing. If only someone would show the good sense to take the upside down Gurney Flap off the back. But NOOOOOOOOO, they won't take the upside down Gurney Flap off the back. . . .
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083141_ex-aptera-founder-reveals-new-electric-sports-car-torq-roadster
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083141_ex-aptera-founder-reveals-new-electric-sports-car-torq-roadster
Harold in CR
100 kW
USAEBIKECO
10 kW
dnmun
1 PW
Aptera had to go three wheel so they did not get bashed with the EPA rules as i understand why they designed it that way.
the stability problem is because of the three wheel arrangement.
what if someone came up with an aftermarket modification where you could add some outriders, some stabilizing wheels that would prevent the excessive lean, kinda like training wheels for kids bike. if they are aftermarket mods then maybe the EPA could not stop them from being used and the stability problem could be mitigated somewhat. except who is gonna carry the liability insurance for the company that makes them.
the stability problem is because of the three wheel arrangement.
what if someone came up with an aftermarket modification where you could add some outriders, some stabilizing wheels that would prevent the excessive lean, kinda like training wheels for kids bike. if they are aftermarket mods then maybe the EPA could not stop them from being used and the stability problem could be mitigated somewhat. except who is gonna carry the liability insurance for the company that makes them.
Dauntless
100 TW
The stability problem was bad aerodynamics that created lift instead of downforce. Sounds as though these copycats incorporated the dangers into the knockoff version.
Chalo
100 TW
Dauntless said:
The angle of attack on their "airfoil" looks to me like it wouldn't create any lift at all.
For what it's worth, downforce results in drag plus additional rolling resistance, wake turbulence, and other efficiency losses. The most efficient way to go is to generate neither lift nor downforce, and move slowly enough that downforce-enhanced traction is not a safety requirement.
Wasting a lot of energy to increase safety because you're moving dangerously fast is stupid. Just slow down and stop being stupid.
USAEBIKECO
10 kW
The Aptera design is nothing more than a cool looking car. Jay Leno has one, and a demo video on youtube.
If Zaptera can keep the price around $30k then if could possibly be profitable. They should form a strategic alliance with Tesla for charging and battery swapping.
If Zaptera can keep the price around $30k then if could possibly be profitable. They should form a strategic alliance with Tesla for charging and battery swapping.
Hillhater
100 TW
lester12483 said:
:lol: Why would Tesla want to do that ??What have Zaptera got to offer Tesla in exchange for use of their charge network ?
Dauntless
100 TW
Chalo said:
HUH???? Name one thing about it that doesn't look it's intended to be a flying car? (Take this 'Enough Rope' while I catch my breath.) Why did you say "Airfoil" if you didn't think it was generating lift? Wouldn't you have said "Diffuser?"
Oh, well, maybe it won't be necessary for you to explain anything, that last part spoke volumes.
I'd say I'm a dilettante in the area of aerodynamics, but then we'd have a big discussion of what 'Dilettante' means, beyond that I know some from racing and from aviation. The fact is I'm often in discussions with instant experts where I don't want to play expert myself but I'm obviously so far out front of someone who speaks so boldly with no knowledge. Dangerously fast in the Aptera is 25mph, that's not counting whether there's any crash safety in the design, which I doubt because the 3 wheel design lets them off the hook for any. The aerodynamic design increases its' function as the car goes faster, at freeway speed all cars have aerodynamics hard at work. The classic example is that you hold your hand out the window on the freeway and you'll see how much lift or downforce can be at work. The body IS generating grip, it's just a question of how much. There would be no DRAFTING at freeway speeds if there wasn't.
https://www.llnl.gov/str/May03/pdfs/05_03.pdf#page=26
A really spot on link would have been short and talked of countering other forces with downforce, but they're never around when I need them.
(And we have to go freeway speeds to get anywhere. If going half that was practical the cheap electric scooters would be a much easier sell.)
Back in the 1970's the racing world had the 'Flying Club.' If your car, for no apparent reason, left the ground and flipped or did other silly things you were a member. Many of the well known names of the time had the experience. A friend of my Father's died that way in testing, as did Bruce McLaren a few years later. The 70's had been a time where the aerodynamics were in fast forward, the wind tunnel had come into use in car design. They thought this was how racecars should and would look.
Computer simulation changed aerodynamic design dramatically. A lot of experts had "Looks to me. . . ." statements in print that came back to haunt them.
Oh, the Cessna 172 Skyhawk is designed to takeoff and climb out at 75 knots, but when you learn to fly in one they teach you how to get it in the air at under 50 knots, just in case you ever need to. Under 50 knots that particular plane cannot stay in the air, you fly over the numbers on approach at 63 knots and you're descending around 700 feet per second for sheer lack of lift. once your wing is less than it's own span from the ground the lift increases due to ground effect so you sort of level off, as you slow under 50 knots it'll settle to the runway. You don't force it down without an emergency, or even in one if you can avoid it. But you can force it into the air at 50 knots if you have to. Isn't Bernoulli interesting. . . .
