Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

[byebyepetrol]

I won't break any land-speed records but the 48T chainwheel arrived from http://www.emax-ebikes.com.au/ and it's raised top speed
to 38-40kmh.

It used to be 35-37kmh.

I'll look at getting an 11T on the cluster now.

Programming cable arrived in the same delivery so I'm looking forward to tweaking settings. I'm after
more urge at low rpm like the Dillenger 250w front hub system. I find at the moment I'm using a lot of throttle
from standstill AND up hills. The throttle lag is uncomfortably long; only a split-second and most noticeable when under heavy load.

It sounds like battery voltage sag. I hope it's not, it's a brand new pack.

 

[friendly1uk]

One thing to note
I charged the battery using their fan-cooled changer. The cooling fan works, the charger stays cool but it's noisy.
There's an on-off switch on the pack and you'd think pushing it in would activate the pack.

This isn't the case, pushing it turns it off.

Anyone else experienced similar?

My other pack which is identical apart from cell capacity works as you'd expect it to. You push the button to activate it.

My guess is the switch has been wired back to front.
If this is the case it doesn't say much about their "Quality Control" process.

I have also had two. Both power switches are off when pushed in.

Quality control? lol One of my battery meters wouldn't work. Upon examination, the board was fitted upside down. QC didn't even involve pressing the battery meter button to clarify power was present. Look at the stickers used. They have orientation marks that show they are just slapped on stickers from some other production line. All their QC does is clarify there was no QC. Just someone with a roll of stickers and no guidance how to use them.

Very good weighing procedure. I see a kg went missing when the BB and chainring were changed. I think that is what cwah wanted to know. The kit was like 7.5kg but adds 6.5kg to the bike. Maybe...

 

[Tats]

I too have throttle lag when I swap from PAS to throttle and its a bit too long, but my torque is fine. To me it doesn't sound like sag, it sounds like a 'feature' of either programming or design by Bafang. I've been playing with a tap on the throttle to cut the PAS to ease the gear changes exploiting the 'cut-out' while the system figures out what to do - but I think a very short back-pedal is probably the smoothest way for gear changing so far with my coordination.

I have an 11T on the rear and can move along easily in this high 30s to low 40s depending on wind. Have a look at sheldon brown's gear inches calculator for speed, teeth and cadence to get an indication of what you'll get.
80 RPM, 175mm crank, 48 / 11, 700cc x 38 = 45.7 km/h and with a 26 x 1.9 tyre = 43 km/h -> http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

 

[byebyepetrol]

Thanks for the calc link Tats.

I had to use a company car for a 500km jaunt yesterday and got stuck in traffic entering Hobart. A car had broken down during rush hour causing bumper to bumper crawl for 10 mins.
I slowly lost the will to live for while.

I just cringe thinking about the emissions from the millions of idling vehicles globally, 24/7/365 and we've been using this system blissfully unaware of the consequences
for the past 40-50 yrs.

We're a bunch of dickheads.

I just hope the rapid widespread adoption of electric propulsion for transportation and solar/wind/wave renewable energy sources is enough to have a planet-saving restorative impact.

Hi friendly1UK
As for the battery switch, any idea how to fix it? I've yet to sort mine out. Sorry to hear your meter is faulty.

The BBS01 all-up was 8462g (see caption last photo on page 1).

I didn't weigh the replaced components; front derailleur, bb assembly or cranks.

Overall it's 390g heavier than the Dillenger front hub system. It's got a 14.5AHr battery however which may account for the difference.
The Dillenger battery was 10.5Ahr which I didn't weigh either.

There's not much in it in terms of weight between the two systems.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Road Report
With 889km under its belt the bike still performs like a swiss watch.

40kmh is a very comfortable top-speed on the flat no wind assistance.

I left work a bit early yesterday and zoomed past the longest traffic jam I've ever seen in Launceston.

It''s a shame there were only two other cyclists enjoying the bike track. Launceston is still very car-centric.
Trying to wean the Mums and Dads off cars is going to take a petrol price hike or an em pulse.

Rubber
I've settled on these for tyres; cheap, very low rolling resistance thanks to the rounded profile and so easy to fit
compared to the others I've tried.

 

[2old]

Thanks for the update, and wish more individuals reported their experiences.

 

[Scotty T]

Yeah this is looking like the upgrade of choice and the carbon mudguards are just dreamy!

 

[zan5hin]

Thanks for the writeup. Great to get the info here from ByeByePetrol and also Tats who I sent a few PM's to.

I am going to order the BBS01 from Emax Ebikes, for this bike, in a few weeks: http://www.bikeshed.com.au/pages/products/bikes/giant/giant_2005/comfort/05_innova.html

I was reading your other thread about the Dillenger because I was originally looking at the new Dillenger 250W front hub with bluetooth, but when I started reading about mid drive kits, my plans changed.

I was planning on swapping out my tires for those Shwalbe one's you used to like, but now you have switched to Maxxis and I already have Maxxis overdrive tyres so there ya go

I seem to have made a good choice when I bought this bike, even though it has been sitting in the garage for six years (I went backpacking and living overseas). So looking forward to fixing it up.

I am a bike fixing newbie so I hope I can muddle my way along with some help from a few co-op bike shops in Melbourne, and some Youtube videos to service my bike and get the kit put on.

I want to get the top speed possible, so that 48T chainring looks like the way to go, but this bike is already a nine speed, so I don't think I need the 11T?

I really look forward to riding all over Melbourne and through all the 40km/h zones which now includes schools, every strip with retail shops and the entire CBD. Lol.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Welcome to the forum zan5hin.
That bike should be a good fit for the mid-drive.

FYI
Bafang make a 52T chainwheel too. I only found out after I ordered the 48. Ewan at emax has them.

Kit vs eBike
The advantage of a conversion kit over an "eBike" is you can remove the kit and revert the bike back to original
then fit your kit to something else.

So down the road if you want to upgrade to something lighter and more bling it's a relatively cost-effective pathway.

 

[byebyepetrol]

1128km in and all is well.

The motor / battery / controller are still stock and working AOK.

I had a minor incident hitting some poorly repaired shoulder doing 65-70kmh trying to beat my previous 69kmh. I'm ok and the bike's ok too.

I was in a crouch and didn't see it until too late. The battery liberated itself and disappeared down the road like a heavy plastic tumbleweed. No cars around thankfully despite being peak hour.

It's my fault since the battery lock wasn't engaged (the steel anti-theft pin). I've never had a problem before however the impact was pretty extreme this time.

Credit to the battery's durability; it still works despite lots of abrasions. I thought I might have to limp the 12km home but I plugged it back in, dusted myself off, took some photos
using snapsendsolve (a council reporting app) and went home.

That's the battery in gutter in the second photo.

 

[Simonism]

I had a minor incident ...

Really glad you're OK. You are more resilient than I think I would be! Thanks for the report.

Simon

 

[zan5hin]

Glad to hear you are ok! Speaking of the lock on the battery pack, I assume you wouldn't trust it to be secure in a high risk part of the CBD?

I was just reading reviews on Amazon for these special "security skewers" (Pitlock, etc) you can purchase and install on wheels and seatpost to prevent a thief taking stuff off your bike, and even they are fallible to being disabled with enough brute force, I assume the lock on the battery pack is not the best system seeming it is from China....

I just wish there was some way to lock the battery, it would be nice if there was a hole you could pass through a U-Lock or metal chain. I just bought a Giro Sutton MIPS helmet which has a U-Lock pass through and I can just keep it locked with the bike, it is a great idea....

I have paid for my Bafang kit, with a 48T chainring included (thanks for the tip) and will get it delievered as soon as I land back in Melbourne in about three weeks

The price is just awesome, for the whole kit including battery, can't be beat, with the forum discount through emax-ebikes. I keep finding prices for the BBS-01 and a similar 13AH battery pack online and add shipping and it seems Ewan is practically giving the kits away, for the price, haha

 

[byebyepetrol]

Thanks Simonism, Zan5hin.

My anti-theft solution is to park it in the office at work. I don't trust any lock.

Anti-Theft Sensors
I do however have faith in radio-based trackers. If manufacturers embedded (like chips for dogs) a solid-state device in the bike and bike parts obviously where the carbon / metals wouldn't suppress the signal too much
then that might be some deterrent and be a terrific way to bait thieves.

All it needs then is a sensor pad under a bikeway/ road that receives a lot of bike traffic and when a "stolen" bike is detected it alerts the authorities or triggers a camera or a drone that tracks 'em.

Zan5shin; good luck with your kit and hope it's as much fun as mine.

 

[Scotty T]

I'm going to test the theory on stealing as my son is going to ride it to school and lock it inside the school but it is a college (Yr 11 and 12 in Canberra is a college setup) so it's a little more open than a typical school with fencing etc.

I think unless you had the same carrier already, or are prepared to stay there long enough to unbolt a battery carrier after you broke it getting the battery off, there aren't a lot of practical reasons to steal it. Next unless you are a pro bike thief you're not going to get through a lock, and you will need four foot long bolt cutters to do so. My total bike is $1000 down. If it was sitting next to a more expensive more attractive looking bike I doubt it would go if a thief with serious intentions came along. I guess the next thing is to look at insuring it.

It actually rained this arvo and severe storm warning so my bike is currently in the bike cage at work with the battery on my desk. It's great having a bike cage, most of the bikes in there aren't even locked to the rails. Canberra is a pretty lax bike friendly city so mostly the ones that get nicked are not locked up from what I hear.

On the main topic I was looking at a rear wheel over this kit. It would mean I can easily convert the bike back to an MTB. The donor bike is back, my old bike I sold years ago to a bloke I am still in contact with:

 

[Scotty T]

Also this, if you haven't seen it.

https://tigrlock.com/

 

[byebyepetrol]

Hi Scotty,
150 bonus parent points for trusting your son with your pride n' joy.


Tigr locks might do it for some peeps:= but titanium? The cost and complication could be displaced with some cunning silicon logic chippery.

Love the tyres on your Mongoose rig. If you're going electric that'd be a great frame. It's got front disc mounts too. What's the rear derailleur ? It looks very French.

 

[Tats]

My Dillinger battery did the slide of shame too - unlocked over a speed bump at 30kmh. Scuffed case but battery was fine.

 

[Scotty T]

I agree on the chip concept, but it's not gonna happen soon because of the infrastructure required. It would have to happen at the manufacturer so the only way to remove was to destroy the bike frame.

Oh the TiGr at least in the thin model is not so good BTW:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb8YoT9Q9VA&feature=youtu.be

Those white tyres are the old Panaracer Smoke/Dart "Magic" combo. They've turned brittle so they are gone. When it goes electric I'll put some Maxxis slicks on and yeah was thinking about a disc front. The derailleur is a Sachs DIRT Plasma.

 

[Scotty T]

My boy took e-bike 1 on the commute today, did really well, found a great route with 150m of road in 11.5km, such is Canberra. He got a locker for the battery, locked the bike in the school rack and all was fine. He's keen to ride it again, so all good.

Even more exciting for me is e-bike 2 is coming! It will be a different config to both talked about in this thread, a 350w Bafang rear wheel motor kit, with 11.6Ah 48v battery pack, from E-Max Bikes. Can't wait, but it's back order as I want a 350w cassette hub which he doesn't have.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Range

Did a 100km loop on the weekend; tyres upped to 65psi, single pannier carrying 2Kg of stuff on the way out and return with 2 bottles of Tasmania's finest.
I charged at the vineyard for about 1/2 hr. The 10.5 pack on the 250w Dillenger could just manage 60km.

Brutal headwinds on the way out so average speed 25-30kmh (guesstimate) and around 35-45kmh on the wind-assisted return leg.

The route is very popular with competitive cyclists since it offers a mix of hills and flats away from busy weekend traffic and I happened across a few of them
but was running late so didn't offer any of them a draft.

The new 52T chainwheel currently en route will be fun I expect. The 48T x 12T offers 40kmh max comfortable pace, I expect the 52 to offer around 42-43kmh.

Lekkie make a 42T ring which is a direct fit but I'd like a 52. The 42 might be good for a 29er.

..and speaking of 29er; this arrived today:

 

[Tats]

V. Nice looking frame dude... I need a better front shock on mine - the Suntour pogo doesn't have enough damping.

Been giving a few roadies a draft on the commute recently, been fun, although strava keeps saying "ride flagged, you look like you're in a vehicle so you can't appear on any leaderboards" lol

 

[byebyepetrol]

Thanks Tats.
I wonder how Strava works out that you're a vehicle?

For the Weight Weenies Among Us

48T

52 T

430g for a chainring is a chunk of weight.

Anyone with an adapter and alloy chainring care to chime in with their weights? I wouldn't be surprised if the adapter and alloy 'ring is a tad lighter.

Check out the teeth profile for the worn chainring. It's only done 1000km. I'm certain it's made from cheese.
That might explain how, in the last week or so, why the chain has been coming off under load and road bumps.

I'll fit the 52T tonight and report back tomorrow.

 

[byebyepetrol]

The Bafang ate my chainring

I couldn't help myself; had to duck down to Bunnings to buy some T handled allen keys (made from cheese and only $23) and my suspicions are confirmed; the new chainring made a significant difference; the extra diameter helped chain tension for a tired old XT derailleur and the tooth profile helped too I reckon.

The chain stayed on despite my flailing limbs.

The higher gear ratio might be the "sweet spot" for me and this 26" bike. I can see a 40kmh + top-end as an easy target.

 

[byebyepetrol]

1700km elapsed and the only bits wearing out aren't the Bafang bits.
The motor/battery/ drivetrain still perform with low noise and efficiency.
I haven't had to pull anything apart yet. I simply clean the bike and lube the chain/ derailleur cogs.
This is definitely a superior mode of transport to the fossil-fuel car and riding it, I can't help feeling superior too.

Shimano Saint pedals look great but I won't buy another pair. They weigh 500g which is a lot.
I've worn the bearings out after two years of light commuting.
I pulled them apart and they're all lubed but the design seems wrong; there's 2 races at one end (furthest from the crank) but
just a plain bearing and token rubber oil seal at the other. Am I missing something here?

My next pedals will likely be these. They're cheap and light.
http://www.xpedo.com/products/pedals/platform/144/spry

Bigger Chainring
The 52T chainring is great. With a full charge it does 51.2Kmh un-loaded. The higher gearing doesn't seem to have stressed the
system; at least the range and heat is the same and it's not making any new noises. If you have a light 26" wheeled bike running low drag
high-pressure tyres then it's worth getting one. I guess I spend a little more time in the next cog up then I used to but even so I leave it in
top gear for 90% of most journeys.

In the real world it tops out at 41-42kmh on the flat no-wind-assist. If there's a hint of a tailwind it's 45-50kmh.

 

[Scotty T]

Those pedals look great!

MkII bike parts arrive next week. Meanwhile I am defeating petrol on all fronts, I have just removed the ICE from my old BMW. So stoked. BYE BYE PETROL!