Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

[waynebergman]

PARAJARED ASKED...........
1) does the display that comes with it limit the amperage? (keep me from accidentally sending 100 amps down the thing)
2) how does the thing do on ridiculous steep hills, hills so steep your tires can barely hang on? (I don't care about top speed, I need torque)
3) stock chainring vs bling ring?
4) that plastic gear is going to wear out, how easy is it to swap? Can I buy a replacement gear?
5) waterproof? how stupid can I get with the water?

Hey parajared......
1.Amperage is only set from controller. default is 25 amps and 30 is better with a program cable
2.With gearing set to one to one you can outclimb your grip with tires and not even heat her up.
3. Go with one to one gearing if you want single track fun.....anything else is not full torque out of this motor
4. Lots of info out there on this one. I dont know but LUna sells them for cheap
5. from what I read things are pretty water resistant.

 

[gman1971]

keyword: water resistant, not submersible

G.

 

[rs4race]

42 mph on flats? headwind? downhill?

I can certainly tell the difference between my 14 lbs carbon road bike and my mtb prior to electrifying it; on human power there was a 5 mph difference on the same hilly commute to work between the two: 12.5 mph on the MTB vs 17.8 mph on the road bike so I certainly believe its possible to achieve 42 on ~1500 watts with the right conditions but you'll be operating at the ragged edge of the system. However, your post is giving me hope that I'll be able to shatter the 60 mph barrier on my tadpole trike, since recumbents do have a much lower air drag at speed than uprights...

Very nice ride, BTW.

G.

Thanks! It's a work in progress, a good intro electric bike. I'm already thinking about my next, but should finish this first.

42mph, flat, no wind, and throttle only. The cadence is way too high for human input, and pedal assist cuts out at about 37 (still really high cadence) unless you set it up so km/h reads mph. I emailed lectric cycles earlier about their 130 bcd adapter. My hopes are to reuse my 42t and 52t chainrings that were on the bike originally. Then at least I could get some human input at higher speeds, maybe eek out a few more mph, and make hills a little better if I want to keep a good power consumption.

 

[rs4race]

60mph would be outstanding.

 

[gman1971]

60mph would be outstanding.

Indeed, I would still cruise at 30mph as I do now, but have extra 30mph to keep up with traffic or get out of sticky situations where you need speed.

G.

 

[Alan B]

I have some questions about the bbshd
1) does the display that comes with it limit the amperage? (keep me from accidentally sending 100 amps down the thing)
2) how does the thing do on ridiculous steep hills, hills so steep your tires can barely hang on? (I don't care about top speed, I need torque)
3) stock chainring vs bling ring?
4) that plastic gear is going to wear out, how easy is it to swap? Can I buy a replacement gear?
5) waterproof? how stupid can I get with the water?

To reinforce and add to earlier comments:

2 I've got 42:36 gearing and it climbs till I can't keep the wheel down. This is the Luna aftermarket chainring.

4 Reportedly the Nylon gear takes about an hour to change, and is available. At the 25 or 30 amp limit it will last a long time.

 

[gman1971]

42 mph on flats? headwind? downhill?

I can certainly tell the difference between my 14 lbs carbon road bike and my mtb prior to electrifying it; on human power there was a 5 mph difference on the same hilly commute to work between the two: 12.5 mph on the MTB vs 17.8 mph on the road bike so I certainly believe its possible to achieve 42 on ~1500 watts with the right conditions but you'll be operating at the ragged edge of the system. However, your post is giving me hope that I'll be able to shatter the 60 mph barrier on my tadpole trike, since recumbents do have a much lower air drag at speed than uprights...

Very nice ride, BTW.

G.

Thanks! It's a work in progress, a good intro electric bike. I'm already thinking about my next, but should finish this first.

42mph, flat, no wind, and throttle only. The cadence is way too high for human input, and pedal assist cuts out at about 37 (still really high cadence) unless you set it up so km/h reads mph. I emailed lectric cycles earlier about their 130 bcd adapter. My hopes are to reuse my 42t and 52t chainrings that were on the bike originally. Then at least I could get some human input at higher speeds, maybe eek out a few more mph, and make hills a little better if I want to keep a good power consumption.

Aerobars will snatch a few mph due to lower resistance...

G.

 

[waynebergman]

60 is too fast my man! Behave yourself now

 

[gman1971]

60 is too fast my man! Behave yourself now

Oh behave... (while biting his pinky finger)

 

[Chalo]

Don't worry about him getting 60mph. It's not going to happen unless he uses a fully faired, expertly designed and constructed HPV. Power required rises exponentially with speed, and aero drag alone consumes more than 1500W at 60mph unless your vehicle is built like a sailplane.

 

[gman1971]

Don't worry about him getting 60mph. It's not going to happen unless he uses a fully faired, expertly designed and constructed HPV. Power required rises exponentially with speed, and aero drag alone consumes more than 1500W at 60mph unless your vehicle is built like a sailplane.

I will get to 60 Chalo, just so I can say it "in your face".... but I won't be doing 1500 watts... I'll use a Flux capacitor with 1.3 GigaWatts...

I will be running more like 5kW, but not out of a Bafang HD, thats for sure. And if I don't go to 60, so be it, I'll be close to it. I can do already 40 mph on my current upright MTB ebike on 2.3-2.3 kW on flats... and 50 with a 3 or 4% downhill on motor alone... I run out of gears before I run out of top end with a slight downhill.

G.

 

[rs4race]

Don't worry about him getting 60mph. It's not going to happen unless he uses a fully faired, expertly designed and constructed HPV. Power required rises exponentially with speed, and aero drag alone consumes more than 1500W at 60mph unless your vehicle is built like a sailplane.

I will get to 60 Chalo, just so I can say it "in your face".... but I won't be doing 1500 watts... I'll use a Flux capacitor with 1.3 GigaWatts...

I will be running more like 5kW, but not out of a Bafang HD, thats for sure. And if I don't go to 60, so be it, I'll be close to it. I can do already 40 mph on my current upright MTB ebike on 2.3-2.3 kW on flats... and 50 with a 3 or 4% downhill on motor alone... I run out of gears before I run out of top end with a slight downhill.

G.

I think it will help a lot to gear the motor down to a more reasonable cadence. It will be beneficial for human input. My top speed with the bbshd is probably around 140 rpm, I don't think I can pedal that cadence, but if I can I'm not really putting any good human power to the system.

 

[gman1971]

I would if I was building something as light and nimble as yours, but remember my next project is going to be a leadsled 90 lbs trike, human cadence I am afraid is out of the question; I will probably keep crank RPM up to 250 or 300 RPM to keep the drivetrain from self destructing after 500 miles...

I am glad to see someone managed to crack 40 out of 1500 watts... so there are three ways of doing it:

Either you torque your way into 40,
Either you spin your way into 40,
Or you simply make getting to 40 real easy. (smartest way IMO)

G.

Don't worry about him getting 60mph. It's not going to happen unless he uses a fully faired, expertly designed and constructed HPV. Power required rises exponentially with speed, and aero drag alone consumes more than 1500W at 60mph unless your vehicle is built like a sailplane.

I will get to 60 Chalo, just so I can say it "in your face".... but I won't be doing 1500 watts... I'll use a Flux capacitor with 1.3 GigaWatts...

I will be running more like 5kW, but not out of a Bafang HD, thats for sure. And if I don't go to 60, so be it, I'll be close to it. I can do already 40 mph on my current upright MTB ebike on 2.3-2.3 kW on flats... and 50 with a 3 or 4% downhill on motor alone... I run out of gears before I run out of top end with a slight downhill.

G.

I think it will help a lot to gear the motor down to a more reasonable cadence. It will be beneficial for human input. My top speed with the bbshd is probably around 140 rpm, I don't think I can pedal that cadence, but if I can I'm not really putting any good human power to the system.

 

[parajared]

Thanks!

 

[phild]

I am amazed at how efficient this is ... I have a GT Power meter on a 14S pack charged to 57 volts - my commute is 30.6kms I am looking at 4.58 AmpHrs - 5.7Amp Hours worst case. OR between 235 Watt Hours and 293 Watt Hours. That is 9.6 Watt hours per km or 15.3 per mile.
I am on a lightish, 29er MTB with 11-32 cassette and a stock 46T chainwheel - I go 40-48 kmph on the flat - with as much manual assist as I can keep up with in PAS level 3. But there are some pretty nasty hills in the way (some 15% but a couple of km ~ 8-10%) so average speed is 33 kmph. There appears to be plenty left with the throttle though and 2 more levels of PAS which I have not explored as mid 40s kmph feels pretty quick on a bike to me!

I am interested in other reports about efficiency. Is this typical?

 

[Woodytx]

Finally had a chance to test my hybrid on a flat surface with no wind. It went 30 mph on both throttle-only and PAS 5-only. Using throttle and PAS 5 together, with enough runway and some effort I could get to 35 mph. Only time I surpassed 40 mph was on a good downhill.

I'm very satisfied with the BBSHD's performance (not to mention how quiet it is), I just can't understand how anyone gets 40+ mph on throttle alone even with a road bike. You could put my unit on Lance Armstrong's bike and it wouldn't go that fast. Am I missing something?

 

[lonespin]

I need a 100mm BB30 bottom bracket for my Surley Moonlander fatbike to install a edrive,Isis cranks
Is that possible??

 

[tychay]

Finally had a chance to test my hybrid on a flat surface with no wind. It went 30 mph on both throttle-only and PAS 5-only. Using throttle and PAS 5 together, with enough runway and some effort I could get to 35 mph. Only time I surpassed 40 mph was on a good downhill.

I'm very satisfied with the BBSHD's performance (not to mention how quiet it is), I just can't understand how anyone gets 40+ mph on throttle alone even with a road bike. You could put my unit on Lance Armstrong's bike and it wouldn't go that fast. Am I missing something?

My thinking is either they have the wrong setting for wheel circumference, their controller has been reprogrammed to allow a higher current, they are using a higher voltage, they have higher gearing, or a combination of any of the above.

Every mph at the top end requires an enormous amount more power on the same bicycle. Personally, I've never tried a combination on the cycle simulator that goes to 40mph, nor did I read a report of the BBSHD getting that fast (until the lemond comment above) even crazy tricked-out builds. I did read somewhere that the built-in speedometer has limited circumference settings, and I did see one YouTube video where the person installing a BBS02 or BBSHD was clearly confused about what diameter settings to apply (they were measuring outer tire diameter instead of inner rim diameter). Entering a 700c wheel for a 26" one alone will cause a nearly 7 mph over-reporting at those speeds.

BTW, I'm not saying it isn't possible. If a MTB with 26" wheels and a 52W/50A battery/controller with a 42/12T gearing can get to 36mph top speed, it's certainly believable that a road bicycle with 700c and a similar/same battery/controller with a 46(or 52)/11T and an aerodynamic position could do 40mph. Also, a stock BBSHD is way overbuilt for the current that it is limited to when it comes out of the factory. For instance, Lunacycle has a line saying that the one they sell is "hot rod programmed" so I imagine different dealers have placed different limits into what the same kit is capable above. My guess is that when a controller is pushing a lot of amps through it, heat is going to be a big issue, especially since it is a geared motor and the controller and motor are part of the same package. This is why the person who wrote the article linked above opted for an external controller that has a temperature-limiting sensor (well that and 10 more amps!).

 

[Woodytx]

Finally had a chance to test my hybrid on a flat surface with no wind. It went 30 mph on both throttle-only and PAS 5-only. Using throttle and PAS 5 together, with enough runway and some effort I could get to 35 mph. Only time I surpassed 40 mph was on a good downhill.

I'm very satisfied with the BBSHD's performance (not to mention how quiet it is), I just can't understand how anyone gets 40+ mph on throttle alone even with a road bike. You could put my unit on Lance Armstrong's bike and it wouldn't go that fast. Am I missing something?

My thinking is either they have the wrong setting for wheel circumference, their controller has been reprogrammed to allow a higher current, they are using a higher voltage, they have higher gearing, or a combination of any of the above.

Every mph at the top end requires an enormous amount more power on the same bicycle. Personally, I've never tried a combination on the cycle simulator that goes to 40mph, nor did I read a report of the BBSHD getting that fast (until the lemond comment above) even crazy tricked-out builds. I did read somewhere that the built-in speedometer has limited circumference settings, and I did see one YouTube video where the person installing a BBS02 or BBSHD was clearly confused about what diameter settings to apply (they were measuring outer tire diameter instead of inner rim diameter). Entering a 700c wheel for a 26" one alone will cause a nearly 7 mph over-reporting at those speeds.

BTW, I'm not saying it isn't possible. If a MTB with 26" wheels and a 52W/50A battery/controller with a 42/12T gearing can get to 36mph top speed, it's certainly believable that a road bicycle with 700c and a similar/same battery/controller with a 46(or 52)/11T and an aerodynamic position could do 40mph. Also, a stock BBSHD is way overbuilt for the current that it is limited to when it comes out of the factory. For instance, Lunacycle has a line saying that the one they sell is "hot rod programmed" so I imagine different dealers have placed different limits into what the same kit is capable above. My guess is that when a controller is pushing a lot of amps through it, heat is going to be a big issue, especially since it is a geared motor and the controller and motor are part of the same package. This is why the person who wrote the article linked above opted for an external controller that has a temperature-limiting sensor (well that and 10 more amps!).

Thanks tychay. Those were my thoughts exactly. Above 30 mph, you can feel the wind and tire friction rise exponentially. So the difference between 30 and 42mph top throttle speed is enormous and I don't see how a road bike vs. hybrid could cause that gap. My BBSHD is from Luna, so that's not it either. That Project X article shows Luna getting 35-40mph with a massive 3000W and 50A; yeah it's a MTB, but still...

I am not being critical of the BBSHD - it is a great system, quiet and fast. But when newbies (like me) first look at e-bikes, they want to know two basic things: how much does it cost and how fast does it go? Just like the Project X article started with: "Lets cut right to the meat. It goes 35-40 mph and it cost 4k USD to build." That's what everyone wants to know before anything else. If this industry wants to go mass market, I don't think it's helpful to disappoint new riders on their most basic expectations. I'm very happy with my BBSHD but there are a few areas where it fell short such as power on steep hills - expectations I got from all the high speed claims.

 

[gman1971]

Finally had a chance to test my hybrid on a flat surface with no wind. It went 30 mph on both throttle-only and PAS 5-only. Using throttle and PAS 5 together, with enough runway and some effort I could get to 35 mph. Only time I surpassed 40 mph was on a good downhill.

I'm very satisfied with the BBSHD's performance (not to mention how quiet it is), I just can't understand how anyone gets 40+ mph on throttle alone even with a road bike. You could put my unit on Lance Armstrong's bike and it wouldn't go that fast. Am I missing something?

The tour de france guys are 30mph average pedaling over one hour, so adding 1500 watts on top of their 450-500 average would probably make them go at ~45 mph on the flats...

Do not underestimate air drag on these things, some velomobiles with low Cd can go 80 mph on human power alone... once you get past 10 mph your air drag becomes the dominant force against your pedaling effort.

G.

 

[Woodytx]

Finally had a chance to test my hybrid on a flat surface with no wind. It went 30 mph on both throttle-only and PAS 5-only. Using throttle and PAS 5 together, with enough runway and some effort I could get to 35 mph. Only time I surpassed 40 mph was on a good downhill.

I'm very satisfied with the BBSHD's performance (not to mention how quiet it is), I just can't understand how anyone gets 40+ mph on throttle alone even with a road bike. You could put my unit on Lance Armstrong's bike and it wouldn't go that fast. Am I missing something?

The tour de france guys are 30mph average pedaling over one hour, so adding 1500 watts on top of their 450-500 average would probably make them go at ~45 mph on the flats...

Do not underestimate air drag on these things, some velomobiles with low Cd can go 80 mph on human power alone... once you get past 10 mph your air drag becomes the dominant force against your pedaling effort.

G.

Very true although I was crouched pretty low when testing speeds. I think 30mph is top speed for throttle on a hybrid.

 

[tychay]

The tour de france guys are 30mph average pedaling over one hour, so adding 1500 watts on top of their 450-500 average would probably make them go at ~45 mph on the flats... .

Isn't that in a peloton which negates most of the air resistance? Also, the previous poster was asking throttle only, not throttle plus pedals. I do agree if you add 1500 watts on top of insane pedalling, it's possible. Heck I believe TdF riders already top 40mph for short sprints.

 

[gman1971]

The tour de france guys are 30mph average pedaling over one hour, so adding 1500 watts on top of their 450-500 average would probably make them go at ~45 mph on the flats... .

Isn't that in a peloton which negates most of the air resistance? Also, the previous poster was asking throttle only, not throttle plus pedals. I do agree if you add 1500 watts on top of insane pedalling, it's possible. Heck I believe TdF riders already top 40mph for short sprints.

Yes, TdF are in pretty amazing shape...

The 30mph average is for 1 hour time trials. Guys like Miguen Indurain were averaging 30 mph on TTs....

G.

 

[Chalo]

The tour de france guys are 30mph average pedaling over one hour, so adding 1500 watts on top of their 450-500 average would probably make them go at ~45 mph on the flats...

Keep in mind that if they were riding 1500W e-bikes instead of 16 pound aerodynamically enhanced carbon wonderbikes with uncompromising rider position, they wouldn't be able to pedal so fast. You can't add that kind of power to a bike while keeping it as efficient as a clean pedal bike.

 

[gman1971]

The tour de france guys are 30mph average pedaling over one hour, so adding 1500 watts on top of their 450-500 average would probably make them go at ~45 mph on the flats...

Keep in mind that if they were riding 1500W e-bikes instead of 16 pound aerodynamically enhanced carbon wonderbikes with uncompromising rider position, they wouldn't be able to pedal so fast. You can't add that kind of power to a bike while keeping it as efficient as a clean pedal bike.

Agreed. love the "uncompromising rider position" hahaha...

G.