Best bang for the buck DD Rear Hub Kit
- Thread starter Bullfrog
- Start date
I got a response from Crystalyte regarding their H+55 motors:
It's available order directly from Crystalyte.
H+5580 with heatsink rotor $360.00/es
H+5580 without heatsink rotor $330.00/ea
Axle dropout 140mm
Economic express 6 to 9 days service $121.00
Payment wire transfer with USD or PayPal in Hong Kong dollar.
www.crystalyte.com
Now I am leaning very strongly towards buying and using the Crystalyte H+55 motor. The bare motor is listed at 22 lbs on the Crystalyte web site and the weight is the only reason I am contemplating/hesitating
. It sure would be nice to try a motor with a 55mm wide stator since the torque is proportional to the stator width (just one of the variables that determine the torque output).
It's available order directly from Crystalyte.
H+5580 with heatsink rotor $360.00/es
H+5580 without heatsink rotor $330.00/ea
Axle dropout 140mm
Economic express 6 to 9 days service $121.00
Payment wire transfer with USD or PayPal in Hong Kong dollar.
www.crystalyte.com
Now I am leaning very strongly towards buying and using the Crystalyte H+55 motor. The bare motor is listed at 22 lbs on the Crystalyte web site and the weight is the only reason I am contemplating/hesitating
. It sure would be nice to try a motor with a 55mm wide stator since the torque is proportional to the stator width (just one of the variables that determine the torque output).
From-A-To-B
100 W
I relate to this. I’ve built two 1000W conversions — one for me and one for my partner — that are good for about 1400W in a fresh battery.
But I wind up turning everything down to 800-900W at the controller because the available power is fine and I’ll take the range boost. I’d rather get my speed giggles out on my regular bike. I’ve had my Novara Randonee up to 50mph, fully loaded with bike touring gear, and feel way more confident on it than my ebike at 28mph.
Anyway, in hindsight, I could have built the same bikes with 500W hubs and met my goals whilst having a lighter bike. Next time!
I appreciate that others have different goals for their projects. I was swooning over the power density and efficiency of Leaf motors when I bought their kit. But at the end of it, I likely would have been equally happy with a smaller economy kit.
Cheers!
tomjasz
1 GW
Not here. My favorite ride is a one-speed rear 10T MAC. Quick off the line and 20MPH limit. I sometimes miss my BBSHDs but the older I get the slower I go...
What voltage are you running your MAC on?
The reason I am asking is I get about 28 mph with my 10T MAC on a 52v battery and my MAC is in a 27.5" rim with a tire that is 717mm OD (Schwalbe Super Moto-X 27.5x2.8").
I am running an Infineon clone controller set to 55A battery max and 160A phase max.
I agree with you on two things....the MAC is awesome and will accelerate like a scalded dog AND the older I get the slower I go
.A friend of mine and I have come to the conclusion (from experience) that acceleration is what gives you a thrill and speed just makes it hurt more when you crash...so I am much more in to acceleration than going fast. Just FYI, by "experience", I mean crashing.
When you talk about the x-lite 5580 motor, does the 80 stand for 8 turns?
tomjasz
1 GW
i’ve changed all 48v and 52v packs for 36VWhat voltage are you running your MAC on?
The reason I am asking is I get about 28 mph with my 10T MAC on a 52v battery and my MAC is in a 27.5" rim with a tire that is 717mm OD (Schwalbe Super Moto-X 27.5x2.8").
I am running an Infineon clone controller set to 55A battery max and 160A phase max.
I agree with you on two things....the MAC is awesome and will accelerate like a scalded dog AND the older I get the slower I go
A friend of mine and I have come to the conclusion (from experience) that acceleration is what gives you a thrill and speed just makes it hurt more when you crash...so I am much more in to acceleration than going fast. Just FYI, by "experience", I mean crashing.
20Ah 21700 packs. i’ve no idea how fast it is. been there, done that.
Ahhh, now I understand why the top speed is ~20 mph and absolutely nothing wrong with that
. Do you build or buy your 21700 packs? If bought, where do you buy them?
EM3ev.com told me a long time they were going to start using the 21700 cells but so far they are still using the 18650 cells. I know cost drives just about everything but it sure would be nice to have more capacity/range.
For those not familiar with the 21700 cells, they are a little bit larger than the 18650 and have approximately 40% more capacity.
999zip999
100 TW
I think the 45mm kit from Grin is discontinued ?
999zip999
100 TW
What do you want this bike to do how fast you want to go hills beach snow ect.
tomjasz
1 GW
Ahhh, now I understand why the top speed is ~20 mph and absolutely nothing wrong with that
Do you build or buy your 21700 packs? If bought, where do you buy them?
EM3ev.com told me a long time they were going to start using the 21700 cells but so far they are still using the 18650 cells. I know cost drives just about everything but it sure would be nice to have more capacity/range.
For those not familiar with the 21700 cells, they are a little bit larger than the 18650 and have approximately 40% more capacity.
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You are correct on the DD45, Grin no longer offers it except I believe they do sell the "marine" version of it if anybody wants to power a boat.
For the bike...it will be used only on paved roads, I'd like the top speed on level ground to be approximately 40 mph, decent acceleration from 0-40 mph, and as light as possible without running too hot.
I already have a 72v battery that I plan to use so I'll need a controller capable of 72v and select my winding accordingly.
If not for the "lightweight" requirement, I'd go with the H+55 motor from Crystalyte. Anybody reading this that is pretty new to ebikes, weight is somewhat an indicator of how likely the motor is to over heat but only because more mass takes longer to heat up.
The options:
A. An inexpensive 2,000w kit from Amazon...but I am having difficulty getting details from all the sellers so I probably won't go this route, although not completely ruled out.
B. Leaf 2,000w kit...but I need to research the Leaf Motor thread to see if upgrading the phase wire size is needed or even possible as well as whether or not I can buy what I want since it will be a combo (motor/controller) they don't currently list.
C. 9C RH212....Grin Tech sells them and they can probably be purchased other places as well. Only potential issue is quality control with the motor since there are reports of porosity in the castings that contribute to motor housings cracking.
I am thinking a 35mm stator is as small as I can go and still decent acceleration and a 40 mph top speed, without serious danger of over heating...and of course ATF or Statorade will help.
999zip999
100 TW
Leaf motor at 72volts. But depending on the quality of your battery what controller you can choose we need to know how much amps your battery can safely produce. That is with all calling ill affects to your battery. Do you have a link to your battery or tell us what cells are inside and what your BMS limits are.
My battery/BMS are capable of 84 volts max and 80A continuous...the BMS is the limiting factor and not the cells.
I'd be happy with a controller that can supply 60A battery current Max and is capable of being used with a max battery voltage of 84volts (fully charged 20s/72v battery Li Ion).
999zip999, do you work for Leafbike?
999zip999
100 TW
I know this is the first time I mentioned leaf in this whole threat are you paying attention or just asking more and more questions.
999zip999
100 TW
I understand it's hard to figure things out even for me now after 14 years but sometimes you have to buy some and sometimes what you buy from China whether it's through anybody can have a default you have to still roll the dice and do something so what are you going to do
I have rolled the dice....eleven ebike builds so far. To date they have all turned out satisfactorily but it is because I did my research before purchasing the motors/controllers/batteries.
My initial thought when starting this thread was to build a high powered bike with a Direct Drive motor but after riding one of my builds that required me to put the battery on a rear rack, I did not like the way the bike handled with the uneven weight distribution plus not wanting to have it appear as an electric motorcycle, I am limiting myself to bicycle frames with pedals. The lighter frames and weight distribution led me to the DD motors with 35mm stators since wider is heavier and narrower is under powered with the potential to over heat more easily. So the options for me at least are still:
A. An inexpensive 2,000w kit from Amazon...but I am having difficulty getting details from all the sellers so I probably won't go this route, although not completely ruled out.
B. Leaf 2,000w kit...but I need to research the Leaf Motor thread to see if upgrading the phase wire size is needed or even possible as well as whether or not I can buy what I want since it will be a combo (motor/controller) they don't currently list.
C. 9C RH212....Grin Tech sells them and they can probably be purchased other places as well. Only potential issue is quality control with the motor since there are reports of porosity in the castings that contribute to motor housings cracking.
I am not in a hurry since I have bikes I can ride now.
My initial thought when starting this thread was to build a high powered bike with a Direct Drive motor but after riding one of my builds that required me to put the battery on a rear rack, I did not like the way the bike handled with the uneven weight distribution plus not wanting to have it appear as an electric motorcycle, I am limiting myself to bicycle frames with pedals. The lighter frames and weight distribution led me to the DD motors with 35mm stators since wider is heavier and narrower is under powered with the potential to over heat more easily. So the options for me at least are still:
A. An inexpensive 2,000w kit from Amazon...but I am having difficulty getting details from all the sellers so I probably won't go this route, although not completely ruled out.
B. Leaf 2,000w kit...but I need to research the Leaf Motor thread to see if upgrading the phase wire size is needed or even possible as well as whether or not I can buy what I want since it will be a combo (motor/controller) they don't currently list.
C. 9C RH212....Grin Tech sells them and they can probably be purchased other places as well. Only potential issue is quality control with the motor since there are reports of porosity in the castings that contribute to motor housings cracking.
I am not in a hurry since I have bikes I can ride now.
I may sell my dd and get a gmac or mac or a cheap bafang geared. I like to pedal and coast without drag.
The only conclusion I came to without putting any effort into switching my setup is to always have 20-40w supplied to the dd motor. I just always manually applied slight throttle when I wanted to coast on dd hub.
The only conclusion I came to without putting any effort into switching my setup is to always have 20-40w supplied to the dd motor. I just always manually applied slight throttle when I wanted to coast on dd hub.
Just FYI, you'll have to do the same thing with a GMAC i.e. manually apply throttle since it does not have a clutch. The MAC has a clutch so no drag when coasting/pedaling but with the clutch, it is not capable of regen.
I am probably the biggest MAC fan in the world but it does have some limitations. It is not the best choice if you want to ride over about 28-30 mph and/or push more than about 1,000-1,200 watts through it continuously because it will eventually over heat...but you can use very high amperage (high to me is ~60A battery and/or ~180A phase) for a short time (short to me is less than a minute) and it will accelerate quicker than any ebike motor currently available...assuming you feed both the same amperage.
My MAC is the main reason I haven't already built an ebike with a DD motor
.
A Leaf 1500W with Statorade will do what you want. I suspect the RH212 will as well since I looked at that motor for a while before going with the Leaf. I think you'd have a hard time melting it down on flat ground, or even hills if you use thermal rollback.
That is a good way to get "no drag" automatically. Personally I like the clutch in the MAC better than having to use the throttle or the Phase Runner controller because I like to run a very high phase current so I can feel the "kick in the pants" acceleration that the MAC and GMAC are capable of producing. The GMAC has a few improvements over the MAC so it is a good choice if you don't have to have a clutch.
If anyone is interested in the details of electronic freewheeling for the GMAC, the video below is for a video that Justin (Grin Tech owner/operator) published:
The video below is for the GMAC and discusses the improvements over the standard MAC:
[B][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)][SIZE=4]E-HP[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]...why did you end up going with the Leaf as opposed to the RH212?
I am just curious because those are the two DD motors I would be most likely to pick.
Thanks
The two motors are really close, and the RH212 might have an edge on efficiency with how I ride my bike, but I used the Grin simulator comparing the two using the ranges, speeds, and hill grades that I mostly ride. I don't really care about top speed, but I care a lot about acceleration and torque in the mid range, specifically between 25 mph and 35 mph for safety, when/if I need to ride among cars. With my controller and battery, the Leaf had a very slight edge on roll on acceleration at those speeds, and pulls decently up to 40 mph before the torque curve drops, but you can still feel some throttle response at 45.
Here's a video from my voltage sag testing, trying to limit sag to improve my 25-35 and 30-40 roll on. I need a better methodology, since it's hard to hold steady at 25 or 30 before hitting the throttle, but the CA recorded the sag, so good enough.
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