Bikes that are Compatible with a BBSHD

[JayCee]

I installed a Luna BBSHD for a customer onto an aluminum hybrid with 68mm shell and had no problem whatsoever. Are you offsetting the unit to use a big ring on a bike that lacks room for one?

Don't believe you, unless you shimmed the bottom bracket on the drive side or had an older unit that was cast differently. The current drive unit does NOT fit onto a 68mm BB. When the motor plate is bolted to the motor, the space between the plate and the drive-side housing is 73mm. It CANNOT be installed without after-market shims.

 

[gordie]

I was thinking a Turner 5 Spot to be a good candidate for a Bafang. Not sure if it's been before though.

 

[IzzyMandelbaum]

I have a Fuji Roubaix road bike. It's currently using a Gossamer FSA crank set.
Does that mean I would need the FSA BB30 conversion kit for the BBSHD to fit?
http://www.wiggle.com/fsa-bb30-conversion-kit/
What tools are required to fit that?
Thanks.

 

[djeg72]

i'm still looking for a bike that fits the BBSHD...

yesterday i looked for a rocky mountain element sport (frame is a 2012 or 2013) and i measured the BB width and inside diameter.

the bb width is 73mm, ok for that. for the inside diameter, i'm not sure i did it correctly because i did not remove the crank arm. i measured 36.20mm. if i look BB on wikipedia, ISO/English or BSA, the shell inside dimater is 33.6mm - 33.9mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottom_bracket

Does someone can tell me, with the help of the picture, if i measured correctly the inside diameter? . Also, does someone did the conversion with this bike and the bbshd fits perfectly?

Jerome

 

[speedmd]

Best if you had a photo of the issues you had with the HD fit. Most builders would not consider adding a small crank shim a issue worth bitching about. Chainstay, chain alignment, suspension link clearances are just par for the game, never mind finding suitable battery placement and mounting options.

In terms of BB shell trough fit issues, you will want to get inside the shell. Depending on material (pipe) thickness and warp from welding, you could have some distortion to the perfectly round profile in the central areas of the shell that will need to be ground a bit to fit a bbs type assembly. Not bad to do with a good rotary file -die grider (dremel) type device. The outer threaded-machined areas should not cause a issue.

 

[Chalo]

I installed a Luna BBSHD for a customer onto an aluminum hybrid with 68mm shell and had no problem whatsoever. Are you offsetting the unit to use a big ring on a bike that lacks room for one?

Don't believe you, unless you shimmed the bottom bracket on the drive side or had an older unit that was cast differently. The current drive unit does NOT fit onto a 68mm BB. When the motor plate is bolted to the motor, the space between the plate and the drive-side housing is 73mm. It CANNOT be installed without after-market shims.

Don't believe me, then. I can tell you that the motor was as received by the customer, still in the shipping box. It had a big Luna Cycle sticker on the side cover. The entire installation took me about 1-1/2 hours, and I didn't have to pause and puzzle over anything in particular. The only hangup was when I had to take the battery to my other shop to crimp Powerpoles onto the leads.

It was my first BBSHD install, and I was pleased with how straightforward it was. Something like three months ago or thereabouts.

Because I know nothing about what the customer ordered, I can't say whether it's the same unit that has given you trouble. I can say it required no extra parts or adaptation to fit as intended on a 68mm shell.

 

[JayCee]

Because I know nothing about what the customer ordered, I can't say whether it's the same unit that has given you trouble. I can say it required no extra parts or adaptation to fit as intended on a 68mm shell.

Must have been a different setup. Check out the pic of my 73mm motor - you can see that the space between the drive housing and the motor mount plate is 73mm, so a bottom bracket spacer of some sort is required. Unfortunately, Bafang doesn't include any spacers in their kit, so I'm currently stuck until I can get some aftermarket ones. One of the Luna guys told me that he used a second spanner lock ring, one on each side of the mounting plate, which is probably the best solution, but I don't have an extra one of those either.

 

[Chalo]

Yes, that looks like a problem. I'm glad I didn't have to solve it, because my customer was impatient to get his ride.

Edit:
It looks like the simplest thing for you would be to put a 2.5mm bottom bracket spacer on each side of your shell when installing the BBSHD.

 

[speedmd]

Jaycee, do you have a old cassette you can pull a spacer from? Any bike shop will have these standard spacer items. It is not what you could call a compatibility issue and more of a minor assembly issue.

 

[JayCee]

It looks like the simplest thing for you would be to put a 2.5mm bottom bracket spacer on each side of your shell when installing the BBSHD.

Correct, however my concern is that the mounting plate has teeth that are supposed to dig in to the side of the BB to prevent rotation of the assembly. Luna is sending me spacers, but I don't know if a spacer on the plate side would cause a potential problem, though it's probably OK. Oddly, the cranks are centered with the motor all the way into a 68mm bracket (assuming the measured drawing on Bafang's site is accurate), and offset on a 73mm by 2.5mm. Shimming the drive side 5mm is all offset, so putting a spacer under the mounting plate is the ideal spot from a geometry standpoint. I might just stop by the local shop (assuming I can find one) and see if they have a compatible lock ring I can stick on - that would solve the problem.

 

[Alan B]

While I was writing this another similar post was made.

The problem with bottom bracket spacers is it makes it that much harder to get the motor to stay in place. There's a lot of reaction torque toward the downtube, and there's a lot of torque away from the downtube with vibration and when the the bike lands from bumps, so you have a 10 pound motor trying to rotate the bottom bracket back and forth. The side plate has some teeth to help grab onto the bottom bracket shell, but adding spacers defeats the teeth and adds more surfaces to allow motion. In at least a couple of cases we have seen where the motor has become loose and pounded a serious dent into the downtube.

On the RidgeRunner project (link in my sig) I used the 73mm BBSHD on a 73mm 2016 DiamondBack Overdrive Sport 27.5, and it fit very nicely with a minimum amount of fuss. The motor casting and side plate location were clearly 73mm in spacing, and both nuts fit properly on the threads. It was an easy install, my first time with a mid drive and my first time taking a bottom bracket apart (I assembled one on the Borg before).

I tend to believe that Bafang makes the sizes they say they make, but perhaps not all are stocked by the dealers. The first one I received was in a box marked 68mm, but it was marked on the motor (and measured) 120mm. So I've seen 73mm and 120mm BBSHDs. I thought the bike was going to be 68mm and had originally ordered that size, but the box was mismarked at the factory.

 

[JayCee]

I tend to believe that Bafang makes the sizes they say they make, but perhaps not all are stocked by the dealers. The first one I received was in a box marked 68mm, but it was marked on the motor (and measured) 120mm. So I've seen 73mm and 120mm BBSHDs. I thought the bike was going to be 68mm and had originally ordered that size, but the box was mismarked at the factory.

The rotational issue is exactly my concern. I'm not worried about it getting pulled up, since I'm planning on the blob of epoxy trick, but I do worry about it falling down. I've been in contact with Luna on the kit incompatibility issue, and their rep is adamant that there is NOT a difference between 68mm and 73mm kits, and that there is only one 'standard' kit that covers both sizes. The measured drawings on Bafang's site sort of support that, but it certainly doesn't explain the inability to mount the kit onto a 68mm bracket without spacers (which aren't included). I still suspect that there is a 68mm-specific kit that has a 5mm thinner mounting point on the motor, which would put the mounting plate in just the right spot.

 

[Alan B]

One would expect, if they were the same size, that they would include the spacers. Strange.

 

[robocam]

I have a Trek HiFi Pro 29, and it has (or had) a BB92 bottom bracket. What I did was I used a Dremel rotary tool with a cutting disc, and I removed enough material from each side so that my bottom bracket was 68mm. Then I bought a BB30 to BSA adapter, and I machined the outside of it (using a rotary tool with a tungsten carbide bit) to fit the BB92 opening of 41mm (BB30 is 42mm, so I had to remove 1mm from the adapter). I've attached a few photos below.

But I'm using it with a Luna Cycle Cyclone (which I absolutely love), so I can't say whether it will fit a BBSHD or not.

...Last year i bought a brand new Giant Anthem 27.5 2, to convert it with a bafang bbshd. I have not done my homework very well (shame on me ). I realised the bike have a bb width of 89.5 or 90mm (pressfit), inside diameter larger than 33.6mm (42mm if i remember) and the curved down tube lower ensures that the motor pointing downwards (it means less ground clearance) . So sadly i sold my mostly new Giant yesterday, lost money (the value of a bbshd kit!) and i'm starting again to find double suspension bike that have stock BB 68mm. ...

 

[JayCee]

One would expect, if they were the same size, that they would include the spacers. Strange.

Its possible that they are supposed to. Don't know. I did have a thought yesterday though - it would be trivial to drill a couple of small holes through the side of an aluminum spacer into the side of the BB - I could then slide a small pins (like cut brads) into the holes, pinning the two pieces together to prevent any rotational movement before putting on the motor mounting plate. Problem solved - I think I'm going with something like that.

 

[Alan B]

One would expect, if they were the same size, that they would include the spacers. Strange.

Its possible that they are supposed to. Don't know. I did have a thought yesterday though - it would be trivial to drill a couple of small holes through the side of an aluminum spacer into the side of the BB - I could then slide a small pins (like cut brads) into the holes, pinning the two pieces together to prevent any rotational movement before putting on the motor mounting plate. Problem solved - I think I'm going with something like that.

I think I would take the force at a larger radius - a ring around the downtube that would bolt to the motor would be very nice. This would reduce the forces a lot.

 

[JayCee]

One would expect, if they were the same size, that they would include the spacers. Strange.

Its possible that they are supposed to. Don't know. I did have a thought yesterday though - it would be trivial to drill a couple of small holes through the side of an aluminum spacer into the side of the BB - I could then slide a small pins (like cut brads) into the holes, pinning the two pieces together to prevent any rotational movement before putting on the motor mounting plate. Problem solved - I think I'm going with something like that.

I think I would take the force at a larger radius - a ring around the downtube that would bolt to the motor would be very nice. This would reduce the forces a lot.

It would, but wouldn't be easy - downtube is a tear-drop cross-section.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Why not use epoxy to hold it and a heat gun to release it for removal? Just clean it really well with a good solvent like the ether in starting fluid and use a quality epoxy......

 

[JayCee]

Why not use epoxy to hold it and a heat gun to release it for removal? Just clean it really well with a good solvent like the ether in starting fluid and use a quality epoxy......

Could - I thought of that. I still like the drill-n-pin idea - it's really easy and a slam-dunk.

 

[speedmd]

This issue of motor dropping on the BBS02 was a concern on most of our parts before we had a chance to live with the system for a bit. I even flipped the bracket so not to ding up the bb shell with those little locking nibs as I was not sure it would stay on my SC blur for long. Once the lock ring is snug, I have yet to see the motor move at all. Certainly you will want to check it after the first few hours, but it has not been a issue at all. Worst case, a heavy nylon wire tie would keep the motor snug against the down tube. As far as compatibility goes, the motors support bracket mounts could be shortened to fit 68mm and small spacers / longer screws used on wider BB setups.

 

[Alan B]

I talked to one guy who has done many, many BBS02 installations, with the proper huge socket wrench. He said they always come loose once, and then after that they stay put.

On my BBSHD I torqued it down and used blue loctite, and it came loose. I retightened, with no loctite, and it has stayed put.

This with the epoxy blob between the motor and downtube, the bracket in the normal configuration with the mild teeth toward the bottom bracket tube, and no spacers.

I really tried to torque it properly the first time and make certain it was solid. It still came loose. Once.

Yes, those teardrop tubes are hard to make a ring for. Unfortunately. I have the same problem. A Ring with an elastomer gasket might work. Or perhaps cast in place. Sure would be nice to have a good way to make fitting parts there. Perhaps outer metal ring with inner epoxy, so the epoxy is always in compression. 3D printing would make a nice gasket but still require 3D scanning that's not easy.

 

[tomjasz]

Seems like I was wrong about this according to Luna - there is no 73mm specific version just a 68-73mm.

That is what Luna says, but Bafang's site says different, and I know from personal experience that the "68-73mm" motor that they sell cannot be directly installed onto a 68mm bottom bracket. I think the difference is in the bolt mounts for the motor mounting plate - the 73mm motors are cast 5mm fatter. I have a new Motobecane 529HT, which has a 68mm BB - the motor can't be installed at all without shimming the motor shaft the full 5mm on the drive side due to the geometry of the motor mounting plate. Unfortunately, the motor shaft and spindle is ideally centered for 68mm, but offset to the drive side with a 73mm bracket. The required shimming for 68mm creates twice the offset that the 73mm has, so it is worst of all worlds.

Also, the motor shaft doesn't fit through my 529HT bottom bracket - it's pretty close, so I might try sanding down the motor shaft a bit - it'll probably go without a whole lot of work, but i have to decide if I want to hack up the machine, or I just pack the whole thing up and send it back. I'm on the fence. If I wanted this kind of project, I would've bought a Cyclone.

BAFANG SITE IS SHIT! Get over it dude. They don't make the version you want. Quit being a drama queen.

 

[Lurkin]

Answer: Pack it up and send it back. Hacking it up will really bite you in the behind if you have a different problem with it at a later date and want to claim a warranty against the vendor (assuming you have one).

Either that or install it with spacers and assess the chain rub/ final feet offset. Maybe it will be acceptable, maybe not. Unfortunately, it will probably also take the surface off the chainring, which you should consider if you plan to take it back.

It remains unclear, as it has since the Gen 2 BBS series was released, and earlier noted in this thread, whether there is mis advertising by Bafang (on their website), or whether dealers are just not stocking the different units. Impossible to say without contacting Bafang itself, this can be tricky dealing through dealers and not the manufacturer themselves.

Tomjaz, would it be possible to enquire with Luna on this distinction? Is it actually possible to get a BBSHD for 68mm BB width from them? (yes, any answers will go updating the wiki)

 

[tomjasz]

Go read the Bafang display features and then check out the displays. BIG difference between the specs and reality. I don't get what the brouhaha is. This is a company that came out with an entirely new BBS02 and NO ONE knew it. 5 dealers I speak with, NONE knew until they opened the boxes. So stop making szbaf a site for reliable information. Try to find a manual for all the displays. That'll keep you up at night. Great motors, this time with repair parts and real improvements, but pissing about over website specs is an exercise in futility. As silly as Keefer's crazy version BS, that the consciousness adopted last year. What we glean here and in Lukins work is as close as you'll come to facts.

I have no connection to glean any better information from Bafang, I wish I did. I'd have dates and serial numbers for changes if I could. I just share the little bits and pieces I glean from having dealer friends. (USA DEALERS) <wink>

 

[tomjasz]

Is it actually possible to get a BBSHD for 68mm BB width from them? (yes, any answers will go updating the wiki)

Yes, it measures 73MM. We were able to use a 68MM BBS02 on a 73MM BB. Maybe SZBAF got smart and made one kit to fit both? Why wouldn't they? Near as I can find there are three sizes 73, 100, and 120. All can be adapted to other sizes and chainstays buy oversizing. Again Bafang has been inconsistent in their specs for everything else I don't get the logic of thinking that the haven't simply listed the sizes the BBSHD is capable of fitting, never intending the list to represent actual sizes. Jeebus, they''ll even let someone put eRad on the side and claim it's an entirely different motor.

Buy one they're great. Quit quibbling and go ride...faster and better than ever too!

I still think my BBS01's are the most under rated mid drives ever. Everyone I sold is still running and no returns or repairs. Best commuter 20MPH mid drives ever, Sadly the repair parts might be their demise. Unless second version piñion and second version plastic gear are backwards compatible. Anyone?