Broken display within ten days ownership

[Carlbooze]

Hello All:


December 10th, my Shengmilo M90 Mtb arrived, at my home, but by 10 days later both the PAS, throttle and walking mode had stopped functioning. It happened after setting the display one day, before going out for a ride. Then I discovered that nothing worked except the light, when I tried using any of the pas/throttle functions. Also, the front brake wouldn't work after I loosened some tension in the cable, which then caused the bike not to stop after pressing the lever

After contacting Shengmilo to detail my problem, the dealer narrowed the problem down to the display.

A part of me really wanted to pack the ebike back up and send it back, but since the dealer was ready to send me the parts I needed, and because I knew that I could just as easily encounter another problem from buying another new ebike, I declined returning it.


M90 Mtb details: 29 inch, rear drive hub motor, with 500 W 48volt 17ah battery

Brakes - Hydraulic front and rear

Display - M5 lcd


I'd like to know if anyone else has had similar or worse problems with a brand new ebike, and we're the items fixed to your satisfaction?

Also, how could this happen with a new ebike? Had this been you, would you have sent the ebike back?

Lastly, if the aforementioned problems weren't involving the display, could it then be the controller malfunctioning at such an early phase in ownership?

Thanks, I'd appreciate most any response to my rambling.

 

[ZeroEm]

My old saying "Just because it new does not make it good". It's good that the dealer is working with you. Could be a short in wiring.

Sorry to hear you having issues with a new Ebike. When we drop the money we want to ride not work on them.

 

[E-HP]

December 10th, my Shengmilo M90 Mtb arrived, at my home, but by 10 days later both the PAS, throttle and walking mode had stopped functioning. It happened after setting the display one day, before going out for a ride.

So it was working fine until you messed with it? What did you do to the display and can you set it back to how it was?

 

[Carlbooze]

Yes, I'm guilty of tinkering. No, I can't do anything to reset it. The M5 Display is pretty popular, so if Shengmilo or any video that I've seen, suggested a reset method, I'd have done it. I guess that's why the dealer sent me another one, after I told him that I get no power after pushing the pedal.

 

[Carlbooze]

Yes, that's right!

Thanks for responding!

 

[Carlbooze]

It's what I get for being a compulsive tinkerer, who doesn't want to leave well enough alone!

 

[E-HP]

Just confirming that you tried setting the parameters to their default manually per their documentation, correct? (not a factory reset)

https://www.shengmilo-bikes.com/blogs/news/shengmilo-m5-display-settings

 

[amberwolf]

Also, the front brake wouldn't work after I loosened some tension in the cable, which then caused the bike not to stop after pressing the lever
<snip>
Brakes - Hydraulic front and rear

How exactly, and where exactly, did you loosen the tension?

Most hydraulic brakes don't have cables with tension on them; those are normally used only on cable-operated brakes. There *are* some cable-actuated hydraulics. Which specific brand and model of brake do you have? (if they are not marked on the calipers and handles, then they may be generics which will make it more difficult to help).

If they're just hydraulics, then the only way I know of that altering a cable (hose, really) would cause a problem is either by pinching the cable so that fluid can't move in it, or causing a leak such that the fluid is lost (you'd hopefully notice the leak). You can check for pinches or folds in the hose, or leaks. (it's likely that to fix this you'd need to take it to a dealer or bike shop, as specialized tools are usually required for hydraulic repairs).

If they're cable-actuated or plain cable-operated, then the cable tension is required to make them work. To fix them you'd simply need to undo whatever loosening you did, retightening them exactly the same as they were when they worked.


Note that if any other cables were altered, such as those to the display, then that (rather than the setting change) could be causing your apparent display problems.

Regarding the display settings...if the problem started only after changing a setting, then changing the setting back to exactly what it was before should restore it. If you didn't note down the settings before changing them, and don't remember which settings were changed and to what, and E-HP's method doesn't work, and the manual doesn't explain the settings in a way that helps you fix them, and the dealer can't tell you what to change them back to, then you can make a chart of every menu option and every setting in each of those. While you are there, mark on the chart what the settings were when you made the chart, and leave all the settings like that when you are done making the chart.

Then you go thru the menus and change ONE and ONLY ONE menu option, and mark your chart with which setting you changed it to. Then test the system and see if it works now. If not, note down what it does differently on the chart, so that you can see what that setting does. If none of the settings in that menu option fix the problem, then set that one back to what it was when you made the chart. Then go to the next menu option, and repeat the process.

This will take a fair bit of patience and time, but eventually you will find the right combination of settings to put it back to the way it was when it worked, as long as nothing else in the system was also altered causing further problems not mentioned in your posts, and nothing was damaged by an incorrect setting (this is not normally possible in these types of systems). This process is adaptable for anything, given enough time and patience.

If you have a manual that explains the settings then you can avoid having to deal with the ones it explains don't control the functions you're having problems with, unless all combinations of all other available menu options have not corrected the problem.

I'd like to know if anyone else has had similar or worse problems with a brand new ebike, and we're the items fixed to your satisfaction?

If you mean problems that came with the bike, and were not user-caused, then there are numerous threads about those if you like; many of them were never resolved by the seller, dealer, or manufacturer, but many others were.

If you mean user-caused problems, then they're not really relevant to the bike being new or used, etc.

Also, how could this happen with a new ebike?

When a user alters a device (regardless of what it is) then it could happen with new, used, etc. Any alteration by a user to something will change it's behavior and operation. If that change is undesired, then the alteration to the device should not be done.

Had this been you, would you have sent the ebike back?

No, since from your description you caused the problems by altering it (and was working fine before that), so it would be unfair to the seller to blame them by sending it back.


FWIW, I certainly sympathize with the compulsion to see what things can do, and "improve" them...and having to deal with the problems this sometimes causes. That is why I had to learn how to troubleshoot things so thoroughly....

 

[E-HP]

Had this been you, would you have sent the ebike back?

No, since from your description you caused the problems by altering it (and was working fine before that), so it would be unfair to the seller to blame them by sending it back.

This is more of an ethics issue. The good news is that it sounds like the seller is actually being more supportive than most, since they're sending out a new display, so thumbs up for their customer service. :thumb:

 

[amberwolf]

This is more of an ethics issue.

Sure, but they asked.

The good news is that it sounds like the seller is actually being more supportive than most, since they're sending out a new display, so thumbs up for their customer service. :thumb:

True (though I don't know for their system if the settings are retained in the display or the controller...if they're in the controller then changing the display won't correct the problem as they will still need to go thru all the menus to reset the settings). On a positive note, if the problem is a connection (loose plug, etc) then the changeout of the display has a chance of correcting that.

 

[E-HP]

Also, how could this happen with a new ebike? Had this been you, would you have sent the ebike back?

This is more of an ethics issue.

Sure, but they asked.

Well, you passed the test question with your response! HR will record your score in your personnel records. This concludes the training. Great job!

 

[amberwolf]

:lol:

 

[Carlbooze]

Hi E-HP:

I'd like to thank both you and Amberwolf for responding to my concerns.

With respect to the throttle, the PAS and the walking mode no longer functioning and their possible cause is a mystery to me.

However, two things did happen as I reported, that may have caused my issues, if not directly then indirectly:

I tampered with the display settings, but then returned them to factory status

Now what's interesting is that the dealer may have anticipated this problem with the display, because after I reported these problems, he offered to send me a replacement display after I told him that even after applying foot pressure to the pedal had no effect on the ebikes' movement (no pas, no throttle and no walk mode) response.

Also, I tried to manually loosen the brake cable, after I found the tension to be so tight that it cut through the plastic surface of the cable. But, as a result of my adjustment, the bike wouldn't stop when I pressed the lever.

(But, the dealer assured me that any adjustments to the brake cable wouldn't cause the throttle to malfunction).

So, I reached out to the dealer for some more clarity.



Thanks again

 

[Carlbooze]

I'd like to thank both you and E+HP for responding to my concerns.

With respect to the throttle, the PAS and the walking mode no longer functioning and their possible cause is a mystery to me.

However, two things did happen as I reported, that may have caused my issues, if not directly then indirectly:

I tampered with the display settings, but then returned them to factory status

Now what's interesting is that the dealer may have anticipated this problem with the display, because after I reported these problems, he offered to send me a replacement display after I told him that even after applying foot pressure to the pedal had no effect on the ebikes' movement (no pas, no throttle and no walk mode) response.

Also, I tried to manually loosen the brake cable, after I found the tension to be so tight that it cut through the plastic surface of the cable. But, as a result of my adjustment, the bike wouldn't stop when I pressed the lever.

(But, the dealer assured me that any adjustments to the brake cable wouldn't cause the throttle to malfunction). So, I am at a loss as for a direct cause of these functions no longer working.


I just reached out again to the dealer for some additional clarity on this issue.


Thanks again

 

[amberwolf]

I tampered with the display settings, but then returned them to factory status

That is information that might have been useful in troubleshooting, since if the settings are at factory state then there's no settings change to make. (would have saved us time trying to think of things that would help you).

Also, I tried to manually loosen the brake cable, after I found the tension to be so tight that it cut through the plastic surface of the cable. But, as a result of my adjustment, the bike wouldn't stop when I pressed the lever.

If the cable is actually cutting thru the plastic of the cable from the inside, then it has *already* cut thru the metal sheath that the plastic covers, and the brake would not have operated normally. In either case, the cable housing (the entire plastic and metal tube the cable runs thru from lever to caliper) needs to be replaced.

Note that simple cable tension would not cause this to happen; improper routing might. (the tension is applied "evenly" thru length of the internal metal tube, if routed correctly). But it would require a lot of time and usage of the lever to wear all the way thru the metal interior sheath (usually a spiral-wound tube) and then the plastic cover. It would normally wear thru the cable first, so if the cable is undamaged, then it would have already been replaced at least once, meaning the bike would have to be used, not new, when you got it. The braking surface of at least that brake would also show a lot of wear, as would the pads, unless they had been replaced as well.

If the plastic sheath was worn thru from the outside instead of the inside, then the cable tension isn't what caused that, it's improper routing causing it to rub on whatever caused the damage.

If there is only a plastic sheath on the brake cable, and no internal metal tube, then it is not a brake (or shifter) cable and needs to be replaced with one that is.

(But, the dealer assured me that any adjustments to the brake cable wouldn't cause the throttle to malfunction). So, I am at a loss as for a direct cause of these functions no longer working.

If there are ebrake switches in the levers, and the tension is loose enough to let the lever "open" a bit (possibly even little enough that it is hard to see this happening), the switch would disengage the entire system--it would still power on and you could access everythign as normal, but the brake would be "on" as far as the controller is concerned, telling the motor not to run.

To verify this, push the brake lever as fully to the "off" (unpulled) position as you can, and see if the system runs then. If it does, then the lack of tension on the cable is what is causing the entire problem.

An alternate test is to unplug the cable from the brake lever that goes to the rest of the wiring--most systems, with the cable unplugged, assume the lever is not activated and so allow the motor to run.

 

[Carlbooze]

Yes, I understand why keeping the changed settings would've been helpful narrowing down the problems with the PAS and throttle control. But when the display was returned to its' original state, it didn't change anything.

But I only tampered with the display where you adjust the speed and the throttle use. I did this out of fear of being pulled over by the cops, for violating the speed or power and use of the throttle. So the other settings I left pretty much alone.

In any event you were right to mention the brakes, although you didn't mention brakes in regards to the throttle and PAS (I don't think so, but I have to read your post again) because here's what I found on another forum, in a discussion on the M5 Display:

"If either the throttle or pedal assist functions stop working, we recommend a thorough inspection of your brake system and your electronics".

With this information, I wrote the Shengmilo dealer, and told them that they don't know what they're talking about, when they told me that the brakes don't effect the throttle or the sensor!


So, will wait until I get the replacement brake and display. The replacement parts, when installed should fix everything!

 

[Carlbooze]

Yes, I understand why the former settings would've been helpful, before the display was returned to its' original state.

Still, I have an explanation for why I tampered with the display in the first place:

The motive was fear of being pulled over by the cops, for violating bicycle traffic laws.

 

[E-HP]

Yes, I understand why the former settings would've been helpful, before the display was returned to its' original state.

Still, I have an explanation for why I tampered with the display in the first place:

The motive was fear of being pulled over by the cops, for violating bicycle traffic laws.

Around here, I don't think cops pay any attention unless you're riding around like a nut. It sounds like they can just pull you over and hassle you for any reason, even if you're riding responsibly?

 

[amberwolf]

Yes, I understand why keeping the changed settings would've been helpful narrowing down the problems with the PAS and throttle control. But when the display was returned to its' original state, it didn't change anything.

I was actually referring to *telling us* that you had already tried changing the settings back to factory defaults and it still didn't work, so we wouldn't waste our time and yours on that dead end.

But I only tampered with the display where you adjust the speed and the throttle use.
<snip>
So the other settings I left pretty much alone.

That would also be helpful to have known. In this specific case, it doesn't change the result, even knowing that, because you've already said that resetting them didn't fix anything.

But knowing which settings were changed (even if not to what) in cases like this can help people help you set them back to working settings, or let them know something has been changed that can't be changed back or were changed to something that actually damages things (this can happen in certain cases with advanced controller settings), and then leading the helpers to point you at which part(s) to replace to fix that.

For future reference, to help you get the best and fastest answers, whenever asking for help troubleshooting something, giving every detail of what was done or what happened between the time something worked and the time it did not may make the difference between those helping you being able to solve your problem (and doing so quickly and efficiently), and the problem going unresolved and the device/etc left dys/non-functional permanently, or everyone spending days or weeks going back and forth trying to get those details (or as in this case, having them randomly handed out as tidbits along the way).

It also saves the helpers time in thinking of things to try, as it eliminates more things, and saves you time in reading and in trying out things that have no chance of fixing the problem, and more chance of breaking something else in the process.

In any event you were right to mention the brakes, although you didn't mention brakes in regards to the throttle and PAS (I don't think so, but I have to read your post again)

Yes, the ebrake specifically is in regards to those, because when the ebrake is engaged, the motor is disabled, so neither throttle nor PAS can make the motor run. That is the whole point of the ebrake function. (except for in direct drive hubmotor systems that have regen braking, in which case it *also* turns that on).


What are the results of testing the ebrake lever as suggested?

So, will wait until I get the replacement brake and display. The replacement parts, when installed should fix everything!

Only if they are the cause of the problem, and only if they are installed and configured correctly for your specific bike.

 

[E-HP]

So, will wait until I get the replacement brake and display. The replacement parts, when installed should fix everything!

While you're waiting, try unplugging the connector between the brake lever switches and the controller.

 

[Carlbooze]

Okay, sorry for not being that specific in the beginning.

Since my adjustment to the front brake cable, resulted in the bike not stopping at all, I am sure this is the cause for the throttle, pas and walking mode malfunctions.

Like you suggested, while waiting for the replacement parts, I will find and disconnect the braking system housed within the controller. In fact, now is a good time to do this check.

And yes, provided that the front brake is reconnected properly, my problems will be over!

Thanks again!

 

[Carlbooze]

Hi Amberwolf:


Because of my hip replacement, it was suggested that I not ride bicycles until May. I still have to get around, so I bought myself an electric scooter.

So, in these intervening weeks, I'll have time to learn how to install a controller (if necessary) a display (totally necessary) and a front braking system (completely necessary) as the manufacturer (Shengmilo) is offered to send me these replacement parts from China.

 

[Carlbooze]

Hi E-HP:

Sorry that I responded earlier to your suggestion; it was only that I responded to a different person by mistake!


Yes, as you suggested, I will do just that tomorrow morning!


Thanks

 

[Carlbooze]

And, because of my hip replacement, it was suggested that I not ride bicycles until May. I still have to get around, so I bought myself an electric scooter.

So, in these intervening weeks, I'll have time to learn how to install a controller (if necessary) a display (totally necessary) and a front braking system (completely necessary) as the manufacturer (Shengmilo) is offered to send me these replacement parts from China.
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Carlbooze 1 mW

 

[Carlbooze]

Around here, I don't think cops pay any attention unless you're riding around like a nut. It sounds like they can just pull you over and hassle you for any reason, even if you're riding responsibly?

The cops set up traffic stops for ebikes, where they can test your bike on the spot for violations.

Not knowing any of this three years ago, the cops nabbed my brand new 20 in. 750 w ebike during one of these stops. They said that I aroused suspicion because I had been going at a steady pace without pedaling (using all throttle). Now, that wouldn't have happened, because I know how to manipulate the display settings to suit the law.