BSOs: Bikesdirect Motobecane 300HT or Gravity Basecamp? Unboxed on pg. 2

[Chalo]

I'm returning the motobecane, so can't do that. Also, the motobecane fork may have less stiction, but 26-27mm stanchions is so weak and flexy that it's dangerous.

Folks are really sold hard on fork diameter these days, but remember there are other qualities to a tube than diameter. Wall thickness and material are just as significant or more so.

Keep in mind that the same snooty early adopter types who insist on chubby forks these days were using 25mm or 25.4mm stanchions when telescopic forks were the latest hotness. They would have pooh-poohed today's fatty forks as impossibly heavy and ugly motocross stuff.

Also, note that aluminum stanchions are considered to be the good stuff, but you need more than 35mm of aluminum tubing to have the same stiffness as a 25mm steel stanchion of otherwise identical dimensions. So today's "discriminating" fork buyers who boast thick forks for rigidity, but reject steel steer tubes and stanchions as less-than, don't really understand rigidity at all.

 

[neptronix]

Well, i snapped a set of 27mm dia stanchon, cheap zoom forks in a 5mph crash before. They were also flexy and wobbly, just like every fork in it's class. In my experience, not adequate for an ebike at all.

In particular i want a stronger fork because i will be leaning on the front more than usual and also have 10-12lbs of battery sitting on the frontend.

30mm+ forks in the past had no such issues, cheap or not.

For $200, i can get a low to mid level rockshox or suntour with 80mm travel that is half spring, half air or oil. Not a bad price for a substantial upgrade.

 

[Chalo]

Well, i snapped a set of 27mm dia stanchon, cheap zoom forks in a 5mph crash before. They were also flexy and wobbly, just like every fork in it's class.

Sure. But skinny ≠ crappy, it's crappy = crappy. My guess is that the flexy/wobbly quality was related to bushings rather than structural element size, and the snapped-off event was a result of nickel-n-dime engineering and penny manufacturing.

 

[neptronix]

Hey i'll admit there's some older components that were quite strong with limited diameters, due to good engineering/materials.
But not in the bargain basement range!

30-32mm stanchions is pretty common on a $200 fork, which is the minimum price you need to pay if you want to get into oil/air goodness. It's also about as small as you want for a strong 180mm disc, which is kind of a minimum front brake for a heavy 30mph bike going up and down mountains.

 

[2old]

I'm returning the motobecane, so can't do that. Also, the motobecane fork may have less stiction, but 26-27mm stanchions is so weak and flexy that it's dangerous. It's not an upgrade. The bike needs 30mm or wider to support a big fat disc brake, and also the beating that high speeds will dole out.

That makes sense; I didn't realize the forks were so "wimpy".

 

[neptronix]

Yeah the motobecane forks have the same diameter steel stanchions as the ultra cheap gravity fork, and a steel lower.. the main difference is the massive amount of stiction is not there, and the motobecane has an aluminum crown.

The gravity fork sticks, eventually compressions, then emits a thunk after it recovers from a bump.
A true fork shaped object.

I'd say the motobecane fork is suitable for an acoustic bike considering these low end MTBs are not speed monsters.
But hell naw on running that one either beyond 25mph.

You get what you pay for. I'm about to buy a fork for the gravity that costs more than the bike cost shipped, lol.

 

[calab]

Your limited with new fork selection when its thread/less 1-1/8, Jensonusa doesnt list much

 

[amberwolf]

I must be behind the times again; I thought that was the most common threadless "standard".

 

[calab]

I meant was that Jensonusa website says 24 forks for 1-1/8 but 245 for tapered, which can come in both rigid and suspension but who knows if in stock. I got a tapered headset so I was curious, I need a new fork. Good fork is expensive, so I go used to rebuild it. This is REI for total forks, in stock who knows, rigid and suspension and might include parts in the list like in the 16 of 1 1/8 straight.

• 1-1/8 in. Straight (16)
• 1-1/4 in. Tapered (1)
• 1.5 in. Tapered (42)

Manitou Circus Expert Suspension Fork - 1-1/8" Straight Steerer​

$545.00

double the price of the bike

Then you got to worry about current wheel hub axles with the new fork. All I got is QuickRelease hubs, limits my choices even more.

 

[neptronix]

Your limited with new fork selection when its thread/less 1-1/8, Jensonusa doesnt list much

All over ebay and third party sellers if you look. Suntour has a decent lineup. I can get a 3.6lbs epicon ( aluminum with magnesium lowers and air ) for $200. Their mid tier forks aren't half bad.

You can find plenty of standard parts as long as you're willing to look outside of jensenusa

Old standards aren't dead yet

 

[Chalo]

I must be behind the times again; I thought that was the most common threadless "standard".

1-1/8" is still by far the most common threadless headset format. It's just not the fashion favorite at the moment.

For what it's worth, lots of new OEM bikes feature a bloated head tube like they have a tapered headset, but when disassembled it's just a 1-1/8" steer tube and headset in a fat suit.

 

[2old]

I have Manitou Markhors on both pedal and "e" MTB's. They cost about $225 delivered a couple of years ago, have straight steer tubes and function adequately, but I think a Rock Shox Recon for the same price or so is superior.

 

[calab]

My lbs has to order threadless in, and his fork display at the parts counter never has any threadless. Take a week he said so I will keep saving and ebay it.

All the threaded headset bikes I've had wouldnt require a $300+ air fork in threaded 1-1/8, Trek Townie, a Giant cruiser, 700/29 hybrids. It'd be to much performance for a simple cruiser.

There are plenty of bicycles out there with threadless 1-1/8 that could do for a $300+ air fork of good quality. Like my Giant bike with its 21" frame, then swap it over to something else. Would that be called inter-compatibility, I sure wouldnt touch through axle bicycles when all I got are bicycle with q.r. axles. My Kona's tapered but could be like Chalo stated, I know theres something I could do about that, converting 1-1/8 threadless to tapered.

I hope to read up on the improvements made to such a value bicycle, and the fork you choose.

 

[Chalo]

My lbs has to order threadless in, and his fork display at the parts counter never has any threadless.

Maybe because that's what people buy the most and so it's out of stock. It makes no sense not to stock the parts most people need most of the time. Is he 100 years old? Does he specialize in recumbents or lowrider bikes?

 

[calab]

Last month I had to wait a week for any 8spd chain to come into Yamaha powersports, ebike sublet. Half off, but I could go to the other 10 stores in the city for any 8spd chain at 2x the price ($15-20, not $8 on sale) or just get online, Amazon 2nd day delivery, I like to support local as much as I can.

I get it, all day long they deal with 10/11/12spd, maybe 9spd not old 8spd parts for a great value price.

 

[neptronix]

Shopped around.

26" with a 80mm travel is difficult to find a new fork for. 100mm? not as big of a deal..
A number of low to mid end suntour forks exist for this size though.

And somehow rockshox is still selling a Judy Gold RL for this bike, i can find one on ebay for $300.
https://planetcyclery.com/media/cat...width=700&height=700&optimize=high&fit=bounds



Looks like it would fit the aesthetic of the bike very well.

Suntour also has the XCM air ( $250 ) which has internal settings for 80/100/120mm travel. I think this might be a better choice because if i later decide to upgrade the frame to a dual suspension model, the fork will transfer over.

Details - SR SUNTOUR Cycling


It's a tough choice between the two. The Judy is going to be a better fork, and match the aesthetic, but limits what bike it can be transferred to.

Truthfully, 26ers may out of the market in 5-10 years, so the prospect of sticking to that wheel size is questionable at best anyway. On this basis, it may be better to pick the Judy.

 

[neptronix]

More findings.
Was able to locate a 26" Rockshox 30 TK Silver Solo Air fork for this bike for $150 after lots of grinding on ebay for a good price.

The drive side of the bottom bracket was on so tight it had to be chiseled and hammered off by the bike shop in order to be removed so that i can install another BB and make the bike mid drive-ready if need be.

I attempted to install a nice padded seat, only to find that the ultra flimsy stock steel multi-part seatpost was somehow bent. Instead of getting another, i ordered up a suntour NCX suspension seatpost for $99 ( i would have eventually bought it anyway )

Given i have invested so much into the bike already due to sub-par quality parts getting in my way, if the gravity basecamp's geometry wasn't so ideal for me ( i needed the longer reach ), the motobecane would have been the better choice for the dollar.

 

[glennb]

Interesting fork discussion.

You ought to appreciate the large setback the suspension post affords, if it’s a more stretched out position you like.

It’s significant if you adjust them with minimal preload. Of course, you can clamp the saddle rails further rearward to offset the increased setback, but it can be useful.

For example, I used an NCX on a hardtail frame I converted into a commuter. This involved steepening the head angle by two degrees via shorter rigid forks, and relying on the post’s setback to counteract the undesired steepened seat tube. It’s far more comfortable with less weight on the hands, more on the (suspended) saddle.

 

[DogDipstick]

30-32mm stanchions is pretty common on a $200 fork, which is the minimum price you need to pay if you want to get into oil/air goodness.

Lol I'll pretend I didnt see that and I wont go into how air shocks suck for ebikes. Worst choice.

....

Instead i'll offer you to sell you this air for k for 250$.

I'll also tell you it was not up exactly handling 78mph with a Cromotor.

Risse Racing Trixy. Shipped fast. still holds air. The exact for k in the pic.

lol. Bar and stem mount not included.

 

[neptronix]

For example, I used an NCX on a hardtail frame I converted into a commuter. This involved steepening the head angle by two degrees via shorter rigid forks, and relying on the post’s setback to counteract the undesired steepened seat tube. It’s far more comfortable with less weight on the hands, more on the (suspended) saddle.

That sounds like good times!

My bike needs to go up to 35mph or 60kph sometimes in order for me to not die in the many situations where a bike lane suddenly ends and you need to go the speed of traffic. We also have some of the crappiest pavement i've seen in the USA.

I wanted a very good front fork so i could offload as much of the suspending duty as possible since we have a huge suspension disability in the back. How much the seatpost can make up for that in difficult situations.. well.. we shall find out!

I think i will not end up using much of the extra setback from the NCX for this reason.

Lol I'll pretend I didnt see that and I wont go into how air shocks suck for ebikes. Worst choice.

I was extremely happy with the air forks and rear air shock i had on my DH bike at up to 60mph. The suspension outperformed my very light car with taller & lighter than usual wheels. The only thing i really would have wanted is a slightly longer wheelbase for more stability at those crazy speeds. Don't personally plan to ever go that fast on an ebike again though!

 

[glennb]

Yeah, it seems the saggier you set the post, the lower the rebound rate. I like them around 50% sag so that they absorb all the surface imperfections and it feels like riding on a slightly wavey smooth surface with no vibrations. The idea isn’t to be able to barge through pot holes, just to reduce the cumulative fatigue from imperfections, and to not have to get out of the saddle as often.

You’ll likely want less sag at 35mph on broken pavement, or else you’ll be bottoming out whenever there’s two hits in quick succession, and it sounds like in your case the hits will be coming thick and fast..

 

[neptronix]

Wow, it sounds like the NCX works well. What's your typical speeds?

All the comfort upgrade parts are in for the e-bso now, except for the 'hard' spring for the NCX.
I have a nice gel seat with the typical urethane donuts added for more smoosh, so i'm going to try the NCX preload setting that results in 33% sag, hoping the suspension post has a good amount of travel for taking bumps at speed, and the seat does

Very curious to see how this handles high speeds. I have a number of mountains with crappy roads i could descend down to determine what the comfort/handling limit of this chassis is after the upgrade. That will determine which hub motor/voltage i select to power it.

 

[glennb]

I’m confident your in for a treat with that post, but I can’t confidently extrapolate my experience to 60km/h. They’re incredible at EU regulated 25km/h, arguably the best hundred dollars and additional 500 grams you could sink in to a bike.

At 60km/h, I won’t say you’re on your own, because I’m sure others would’ve done it, but it’ll need a different tuning for sure.

I only had an NCX for a month before giving the bike to my brother, so didn’t even break it in. But I immediately searched for and found an equivalent one a couple hundred grams lighter with serviceable pivots that I use now. It’s rebadged, appears under a few different brand names. Maybe slightly less travel, but the serviceability factor gets my vote.

Starting with a stiff spring is wise, because you have the meat on it to shave down, and it’s easy to make a linear coil into a progressive spring if that’s what you’re after, you just shave progressively along the length of the spring. An angle grinder and patience is all you need.

I’m not suggesting you’ll need to, just pointing out that it’s doable. The post design is fantastic and should work for any application, depending on how pedantic you are about spring rates. If you’re fond of air springs, don’t be shy with the grinder.

 

[glennb]

I don’t discuss saddle specifics - brand, make model, width, precise shape, thickness of padding, and cutout etc.

However, there’s generalities that are safe to discuss. If they flare too close to the nose they impinge major arteries in your groin and cause chafing. This won’t be apparent until you bite off a bigger/harder/longer ride than you can chew.

SMP are worth trying. They might even convert a few recumbent riders back to uprights.

 

[Zambam]

View attachment 344900
One problem and this is serious. I hate Black and I hate White. Any other color would be good. Remove everything from frame. Get it sandblasted and powder coated. Powder coating guy has lots of colors. Ask him what colors he likes? Ask for supper glossy.

Powder coating is cheaper and more durable then paint.

How much does it cost to powder coat a frame vs paint?