Build No. 2 - Reduction Drive - now w/ NEW video

[Trilska]

Nice to see the Kelly working so fine together with the turnigy 80 100.

I am in the planning stage of a project including the same motor and a Kelly keb esc. Did you go for the esc upgrade to enable higher electrical rpm? Also what Kv do you get out of your motor?
/Trilska

 

[bose]

I really like the simplicity of your build! Seems as if it works well too

Which bottom bracket and cranks did you use? Is it the same ones as in the cyclone kits?

Great work!

 

[mauimart]

Nice to see the Kelly working so fine together with the turnigy 80 100.

I am in the planning stage of a project including the same motor and a Kelly keb esc. Did you go for the esc upgrade to enable higher electrical rpm? Also what Kv do you get out of your motor?
/Trilska

I did order the high speed firmware upgrade (70,000 eRPM). The estimated kV for the motor is around 70 which gives me in the neighborhood of 4900rpm at full throttle. The firmware upgrade will be put to the test when I install my stock 80-100, 130kV. The plan is to get some more testing in with the more docile 70kV motor before I expose the Kelly to the higher loading of the delta wound 130kV.

I really like the simplicity of your build! Seems as if it works well too

Which bottom bracket and cranks did you use? Is it the same ones as in the cyclone kits?

Great work!

The cranks, crank freewheel, chainrings, and bottom bracket are all from sickbikeparts.com. I went with the 153mm Bottom Bracket Cartridge to get the required crank clearance. I think the crank freewheel is a White Industries unit and might be better quality than the cyclone version - I'm not sure. I don't know if the bottom bracket and cranks are the same as the cyclone kits.

over

 

[Andje]

yes that WI freewheel is better, still suffers because of the additional side load all the engine torque puts on the chain, but it's definitively a standard quality upgrade.
If i had gone rc i think this would have been exactly my route, although i think you did a much better job then i could have. I do kind of miss the feeling of shifting threw gears like a motorcycle... Amazing video!

 

[Jay64]

I know this is a little late, but nice build. Any updates to it recently? You had mentioned that the suspension wasn't up to par. You could probably just upgrade just the suspension. I've been looking into some of that stuff and have found some stuff for pretty good deals on ebay lately.

Where is that video taken? Looks like somewhere up country like Pukalani or Kula.

 

[mauimart]

I know this is a little late, but nice build. Any updates to it recently? You had mentioned that the suspension wasn't up to par. You could probably just upgrade just the suspension. I've been looking into some of that stuff and have found some stuff for pretty good deals on ebay lately.

Where is that video taken? Looks like somewhere up country like Pukalani or Kula.

Just the other day I dismantled the prototype setup to begin the "cleaning-up" phase. The reason it took so long is that I was having too much fun riding it around the yard
I have also been working on refining my Arduino based instrumentation/logging system (see photos). It's currently installed on my build #1 and is working quite reliably. In addition to displaying the critiacl e-bike parameters, similar to cyclye analyst, I have it logging the data to an SD card. There is still one bug I need to resolve. For some reason when the SD card is installed, the distance and wheel speed data is a bit off (1 to 2%). I think it has to do with the interrupt activated by the wheel sensor causing timing conflicts elsewhere in the code. :? It's spot on when not logging data. It stores the data in an Excel friendly csv format for easy analysis and plot viewing.

I will most likely upgrade the suspension at some point. I just hope the headset is compatible with the standard size of forks these days. This was not the case on my first build, chrome-moly Bridgestone which desperately needs front suspension as I'm cruising at 40 to 45mph with 85lbs of weight plus rider.

Some updates:

I purchased and modified a Topeak seatpost rack that I plan to mount the oversized kelly controller on (see photo). I may even locate the controller on the bottom side of the rack if there is enough clearence between the tire and controller. Plan to add fenders later as well. In any event it's not the ideas location for the controller as the phase wires to the motor will be rather long.

I think I have finally decided on the batter pack. Six pieces of the Turnigy 6S 5000mAh 20C bricks for a 18S2P setup (66.6V, 10Ahr). I plan to locate the batteries in the top part of the triangle (see photo). I will have to fabricate some sort of rack/box/enclosure. Anyone have any ideas?

The SRAM integrated brake lever/shifter that came with the bike needs replacing. In its current configuration I cannot shift the rear derailleur and operate the throttle at the same time. I think I may have found a lever-type shifter replacement on ebay that may be compatible with the 8-speed SRAM cassette.

Oh, and the video was taken in Kula.
over

 

[mauimart]

I put together a rough mock-up of my proposed battery box using cardboard. I may make it a little bigger toward the bottom so that if I come across a smaller controller I can also fit it in there with the batteries. One side of the battery box will be accessible via a hinged flap or removable panel using quarter-turn fasteners. I'm thinking of using 3/32" aluminum sheet for the box and bending as much as possible and then brazing the rest with HTS-2000 brazing rods. I've had decent success in brazing two pieces together at a right angle. Under load I have not been able to break the joint. Instead the material just bends. Seems promising.

 

[AussieJester]

Nice welds mate this things going to piss! hope you got some decent protective gear!

KiM

 

[adrian_sm]

I have also been working on refining my Arduino based instrumentation/logging system (see photos). It's currently installed on my build #1 and is working quite reliably. In addition to displaying the critiacl e-bike parameters, similar to cyclye analyst, I have it logging the data to an SD card. There is still one bug I need to resolve. For some reason when the SD card is installed, the distance and wheel speed data is a bit off (1 to 2%). I think it has to do with the interrupt activated by the wheel sensor causing timing conflicts elsewhere in the code. :? It's spot on when not logging data.

1-2% isn't much. How can you tell?

In my Arduino code I have an interrupt on the wheel sensor. The interrupt function then just increments distance by wheel circumference, and creates a time stamp, and exits. This strategy appears to work fine even with SD data logging. But maybe I just haven't noticed a small error.

- Adrian

 

[Jay64]

Hey, I'm coming back home to Maui in a couple weeks. Would it be cool if I stopped by and checked out your builds? My mom still lives just down the hill from you out in Haiku.

 

[mauimart]

I just picked up one of those cheap Hua Tong controllers for $37. It's rated at 72V, 1500W, at least that's what the sticker says. Thought I would hook it up to my rewound Turnigy 80-100 while the bike was in maintenance mode. Under no load the cheapo controller makes the motor scream. I got it up to around 6000 rpm and it seems to run smoother than with the $400+ Kelly. No telling how much power it will handle under load but once I get my battery box complete I will have to give it a full test. Here's a short video of the test:

[youtube]Tq_XNiS5vKc[/youtube]

 

[mauimart]

I finally made some progress on the build. I partially welded the battery box - first time using a TIG. The box is a bit wider than I first envisioned. It will now hold 9 pieces of the 6S, 5Ahr Turnigy Lipo packs. I initially plan to run on just six packs for a 18S, 10Ahr pack but will have the capability to expand to 18S, 15Ahr. As far as the box goes I need to cut out the rest of the aluminum pieces for the back, front, and bottom and then weld in place. I have some of that faux carbon-fiber adhesive that I may cover the box in for a different look. Any comments on the look? See pictures. I also installed some of the phase wiring.

 

[AussieJester]

This is looking very very good! i think your going
to be extremely pleased with the performance
looking forward to video and hearing your impressions
after thrashing it for a bit hehe...

KiM

 

[mauimart]

This is looking very very good! i think your going
to be extremely pleased with the performance
looking forward to video and hearing your impressions
after thrashing it for a bit hehe...

KiM

Thanks KiM. My inspiration comes from what you are able to produce using a simple right-angle grinder. What a versatile tool.
Still a ways to go before I can begin thrashing it. I still have to order the batteries to populate the box...
Here's another pic showing how the bricks tightly fit in. Pending build completion, a video will certainly be produced.
Martin

 

[mauimart]

A bit more progress today... Finished welding the box and installed on bike. Cut out the access hatch. I'm thinking maybe hinges and and some neodymium magnets to hold it shut. I still need to mount it to the top tube. Also need to mod it a bit as I have some interference issues when the rear shock compresses.
over

 

[Whiplash]

How are you planning on mounting the box to the top tube? I have had really good luck with thread-serts, you can get the kit from harbor freight for like $18!

 

[mauimart]

How are you planning on mounting the box to the top tube? I have had really good luck with thread-serts, you can get the kit from harbor freight for like $18!

That's a good idea. I was not aware of threaded inserts that work with a rivet gun. The ones I'm familiar with require what looks like an expensive pneumatic driver gun. Thanks for the tip Whiplash.

 

[Whiplash]

Your welcome! Nice build!

 

[mauimart]

I finally got the bike back together and all the wiring cinched-up. The Kelly controller runs rough at mid-rpm (2000rpm) and under no load conditions. I'm still running off of 18S1P - 5Ahr packs. When funds are available I'll get more batteries... In any event that motor pulls pretty good and when I accelerate aggressively it feels like the whole frame is twisting. Another video is in the future.
Here are a few photos of the almost finished build. I'm hopeful that with all the Turnigy/Hobby King decals I'll be the recipient of some free stuff from them :wink: Yah right...

 

[mauimart]

Another freshly uploaded video of what I have now named "The Vortex". Must get more batteries so I can ride longer...

[youtube]w0fGVG7fiSY[/youtube]

 

[mauimart]

I'm getting some strange behavior on the current reading from my cycle analyst. When I power up the device the current reading is close to zero as it should be yet when I enable the controller (Kelly) the current jumps to -1A or so. When I put my multimeter across the shunt the current reading falls back into line at about 200mA or so both on the CA and the meter. It seems that if I just have the positive lead of the multimeter connected to the the high side of the shunt or I simply touch the high side of the shunt the CA reads correctly. The "Set Range" parameter on the CA is set to Low (0.01A). Has anyone experience such behavior? Thanks.

 

[Jay64]

Another freshly uploaded video of what I have now named "The Vortex". Must get more batteries so I can ride longer...

[youtube]w0fGVG7fiSY[/youtube]

Man, that video brings back some memories. As little kids we used to charge down that road on our skateboards with long pipes for stability and then after college me and my buddy used to ride our motorcycles up and down that road all the time.

I think your CA question has something to do with trying to read regen or something. I vaguely remember something along those lines when I set mine up a few years ago. Hit up Justin, he would definitely be able to answer it for you.

 

[mauimart]

Man, that video brings back some memories. As little kids we used to charge down that road on our skateboards with long pipes for stability and then after college me and my buddy used to ride our motorcycles up and down that road all the time.

So that was you coming down the road at night with the full moon lighting your way and with pipe in tow. I remember looking out my window at night and seeing the sparks from the pipe. That's hilarious! The kids continue to do that now with their longboards but without the pipe. They haul-ass at crazy speeds often with no protective gear or helmets. Simply nuts.

Just found this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4QW7dB2Vw0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

[Jay64]

Yeah, we used to make it rain sparks. But I don't think the kids you saw was me. I was doing this about 30 years ago. :lol: :lol: Those kids are charging, our equipment was nothing like what they are using now.

After I watched that vid you posted I saw one of them charging on Poli Poli. That seems even more insane, rougher road with smaller lanes.
[youtube]KqjNHvHn6lg[/youtube]

 

[mauimart]

I changed the gearing on my bike by swapping out the 24T chain ring to a 30T chain ring for some added speed. I can also now pedal beyond 20MPH as a result. The overall gearing is as follows:

Motor to Jack Shaft --> 9T:54T
Jack Shaft to Bottom Bracket --> 14T:48T
Bottom Bracket to Rear Cassette --> 30T:32T (first gear); 30T:12T (7th gear)

Now I can climb 20% + grades and reach at least 35 MPH on the flats.

Here is a crappy video (thought the camera was pointed a bit closer to horizontal) with some stats recorded on the CA.

[youtube]KHwA76mSErk[/youtube]

At 34 MPH climbing a roughly 2% grade I saw just under 2000W. I later did some steep off-road hill climbing (not on video) and recorded max power at about 4500W. Motor was warm to the touch and no noticeable increase in temp on the Kelly controller (see controller settings).