Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

[cavallo pazzo]

Thanks, I missed that post. That's magic, problem solved !
It's raining cats and dogs, no will to take a shower but it's just about time to do implementation and tests.
Let's play !

 

[cycborg]

OK, I’ve put together a set of parameters that seem to work well. Hopefully some real-world riding won’t prove me wrong, but I’ve done some tuning and test riding tonight that I think has addressed my two main concerns - overcurrent faults and sluggish acceleration.

I think the key to eliminating the faults was to really dial back the current loop Ki. I started with a default value of 70, which caused jittery torque and frequent faults. I previously had cut this back to 10, which gave me smoother operation and resulted in only 1 or 2 faults in a typical 30-minute ride. I have now set it to 2, which seems to be giving me reliable performance.

As for the acceleration, I had limited the motor current to 60 A to reduce the fault occurrences, but with this new Ki setting, I was able to set the limit to the maximum of 96 A, and now it’s quite responsive. I also bumped the Kp up to 0.45, which probably helps a bit, but being able to maximize the current limit without inducing faults is key.

As a bonus, I’m no longer feeling any power interruption in the hall-sensorless transition. Not sure why that is, and it was only a minor concern, but I’ll take it.

So I’ll add my settings to the repository at this point - if you have something along the lines of an 8-turn Mac with a 50 V battery, this should be a good starting point.

Edit: argh, I typo-ed the filename - it is in fact an 8-turn motor, not 10. Is there a way for me to edit this, or can a mod do it? If you download the file, you might want to fix the name to avoid confusion.

 

[Sunder]

Just bought the second last one of these for a Q100H, so if you were umming and ahhing about whether you should get one, you'd better do it now.

Right now, it's more for experimentation than practical use, but my goals are to make the bike even more stealthy, so the sine waveform and the smaller size should help that.

I'm sure I'll be back here to ask many questions, but for the mean time, I'm excited!

 

[izeman]

is there some how-to to dial in those FOC controllers? all these terms and how they work together, explained in easy words?
i follow these topics for some time now, and i can see that those "next generation controllers" are not that plug&play like the old ones we used to have. a lot of issues discussed in different topics.
maybe we could start a new thread for that? who ever knows what to do ...

 

[Sunder]

If there was one started, I'd definitely be subscribing. In fact, when I got mine, I was intending to start a noob post, so I don't clog up this for sale thread.

 

[MrDude_1]

is there some how-to to dial in those FOC controllers? all these terms and how they work together, explained in easy words?
i follow these topics for some time now, and i can see that those "next generation controllers" are not that plug&play like the old ones we used to have. a lot of issues discussed in different topics.
maybe we could start a new thread for that? who ever knows what to do ...

Theres a basic walk through on page 2 of this thread.
after that, theres a slight learning curve of what does this do, what does that do... but once you get the hang of it, its not too bad.

 

[ambroseliao]

Just bought the second last one of these for a Q100H, so if you were umming and ahhing about whether you should get one, you'd better do it now.

There's only one left!?!

Justin, tell us you're going to replenish the supply soon!

 

[Triketech]

There's only one left!?!

Justin, tell us you're going to replenish the supply soon!

Be patient. I've been waiting since May for one.

 

[Sunder]

There's only one left!?!

Justin, tell us you're going to replenish the supply soon!

Be patient. I've been waiting since May for one.

Err... Serious? It says its in stock, and I've never had a problem with eBikes.ca selling stuff they don't have in stock. That's well past the Paypal dispute date now... If it doesn't ship soon, I'm pulling the order from Paypal.

 

[jmirabil]

I show there are two available now, I was glad to buy the "last one" a couple of days ago - I'm new to E-bikes, but I am very content with my Tidalforce S750X as it, but am looking for new components to upgrade it eventually, or perhaps get a M750X folding frame model and refit it with the new hardware - like the phaserunner and a new rear hub motor like the 3T MXUS 3000 rev2, but will need to save up for the 26" 3T-model laced up with a 2" width rim for a fast road bike.

This is an awesome 100V / 80A controller - I bought it early to study it in detail while I get a super hub and frame to go with it over time. I like the paratrooper folding frames, but maybe something more like a quilbix or phasor "Stealth Bomber-type" kind of frame. I run Hobbyking 22.2V 6S 16000mAh batteries in "2S2P" mode--too much peak voltage for the S750X, but I dont charge the batteries fully, I run them in their middle 95% band, never discharging them nor charging them fully. This has given me some stable and consistent battery voltage under load as tested--I might even tighten the band to the middle 90% for a just-under 30Ah-equivalent bulk pack. The individual packs do 10C discharge, so 160A is their max, but I'm content to run them at 40A max in 2S2P mode.

I welcome any advice via PM or here regarding this controller... VERY impressive piece of engineering this phaserunner is... I cant find a Cycle Analyst v3 or better display in stock anywhere which supports regen.

Glad to be onboard.... -jmirabil in central/Southern CA USA

 

[amberwolf]

I show there are two available now, I was glad to buy the "last one" a couple of days ago

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65031&start=350#p1076001

At the moment we can produce about 2-3pcs / day so I've indicated that there would be a 5-10 day lead time in general. There are in total just over 40 units we'll be able to make, so I've also limited the checkout to just 1 unit per person to make sure they have a chance to get around.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65031&start=350#p1077685

On that front, for people who saw that the devices were showing as "Sold Out" on the website, basically I'm trying to avoid having any backlog build up beyond the published 5-10 day lead time before shipping and have been doling them into inventory accordingly. The production seems to be going fairly smooth overall and so every day I'm adding another 2 units to the store website (as I've just done right now). If it shows as sold out then simply wait a day and there should be a couple more available again.

 

[Sunder]

Well that's reassuring at least. Will give them a couple weeks before I email.

 

[jakoeira]

Hi,

First message sent to this forum, but I have been reading it for years. Great community!

I have tried to config the controller but can't start motor discovery phase. Could it be related to the controller fault state? Faulting bit 1 is related to current scaling. Also have bit 7 activated in warnings (VdcFLDBK)

I havent connected CA yet, only phase wires and hall sensonrs. Motor used: Dapu 155RD.

An other issue I can realize is SOC allways at 100% level, no matter what battery voltage you chose.

Thanks in advance and sorry about my english.

 

[jakoeira]

What parameters are related to current scaling?

Also noticed that speed signal form controller has 6 pulses per revoltion. Does it mean motor has 6 poles? Should I use 6/gear ratio to fill magnets field?

I found in this forum this Dapu specs: 7.9 RPM/V 260rpm nominal

Cheers

 

[cycborg]

I have tried to config the controller but can't start motor discovery phase. Could it be related to the controller fault state? Faulting bit 1 is related to current scaling. Also have bit 7 activated in warnings (VdcFLDBK)

An other issue I can realize is SOC allways at 100% level, no matter what battery voltage you chose.

Also noticed that speed signal form controller has 6 pulses per revoltion. Does it mean motor has 6 poles? Should I use 6/gear ratio to fill magnets field?

What happens when you click Reset under Status? Does the fault immediately recur? I have this vague memory that the first time I powered up my unit, some fault was present, but after I hit Reset everything proceeded normally. This might clear the warning as well.

Don't worry about the SOC, just be sure Peripheral Selection -> Battery -> Battery management interface type is set to 0. If your BMS has an SOC interface, or if you want to set up a voltage model, you can set that up later.

I'm not sure what the speed signal is measuring, but 6 pulses per revolution sounds really low, especially for a geared hub. Be sure you're turning the wheel backward, otherwise the motor will freewheel. I'd guess that it's measuring transitions on one of the hall sensors, so in 1 revolution of the wheel you should see (pole pairs)*(gear ratio) pulses. If you don't know the gear ratio it's fine to enter the total pulses per revolution for pole pairs and 1 for the gear ratio, and the rated wheel rpm for the rated motor speed.

 

[jakoeira]

What happens when you click Reset under Status? Does the fault immediately recur? I have this vague memory that the first time I powered up my unit, some fault was present, but after I hit Reset everything proceeded normally. This might clear the warning as well.

Thanks for the response. When I click Reset Status, and push read button from display only frame, error persists.

I'm not sure what the speed signal is measuring, but 6 pulses per revolution sounds really low, especially for a geared hub. Be sure you're turning the wheel backward, otherwise the motor will freewheel. I'd guess that it's measuring transitions on one of the hall sensors, so in 1 revolution of the wheel you should see (pole pairs)*(gear ratio) pulses. If you don't know the gear ratio it's fine to enter the total pulses per revolution for pole pairs and 1 for the gear ratio, and the rated wheel rpm for the rated motor speed.

This data comes from other people at this forum and whirlpool BH bikes thread. It's a signal from the internal speed sensor. We have been trying to hack limitation and played with it. BH Bikes use Infineon controllers, so I think it won't suppose a problem in the future. But... at this moment I'm trying to handle wiring/config issues.

When I turn on battery power red flash and give me different codes: 3,2,5 and 8 :?

 

[cycborg]

Does the battery voltage read correctly? If not you may have one of the units that was shipped with the incorrect firmware, and maybe that’s causing the scaling error since the firmware had incorrect scaling factors. This post describes how to flash the correct firmware.

 

[Nanoha]

What happens when you click Reset under Status? Does the fault immediately recur? I have this vague memory that the first time I powered up my unit, some fault was present, but after I hit Reset everything proceeded normally. This might clear the warning as well.

Thanks for the response. When I click Reset Status, and push read button from display only frame, error persists.

I'm not sure what the speed signal is measuring, but 6 pulses per revolution sounds really low, especially for a geared hub. Be sure you're turning the wheel backward, otherwise the motor will freewheel. I'd guess that it's measuring transitions on one of the hall sensors, so in 1 revolution of the wheel you should see (pole pairs)*(gear ratio) pulses. If you don't know the gear ratio it's fine to enter the total pulses per revolution for pole pairs and 1 for the gear ratio, and the rated wheel rpm for the rated motor speed.

This data comes from other people at this forum and whirlpool BH bikes thread. It's a signal from the internal speed sensor. We have been trying to hack limitation and played with it. BH Bikes use Infineon controllers, so I think it won't suppose a problem in the future. But... at this moment I'm trying to handle wiring/config issues.

When I turn on battery power red flash and give me different codes: 3,2,5 and 8 :?

The BH motors have a separate speed sensor inside the motors. Ignore that wire, you need to measure one hall output directly.

 

[jakoeira]

Does the battery voltage read correctly? If not you may have one of the units that was shipped with the incorrect firmware, and maybe that’s causing the scaling error since the firmware had incorrect scaling factors. This post describes how to flash the correct firmware.

Yes! It worked for me no errors now. Thanks!
Trying to configure battery I realized fault was triggered by using a rated motor current value too small. I set it at 35A now.

 

[Triketech]

There's only one left!?!

Justin, tell us you're going to replenish the supply soon!

Be patient. I've been waiting since May for one.

Err... Serious? It says its in stock, and I've never had a problem with eBikes.ca selling stuff they don't have in stock. That's well past the Paypal dispute date now... If it doesn't ship soon, I'm pulling the order from Paypal.

Yes, but lo and behold I got an email today. They shipped the order, and better yet, its Fedex overnight.

Just in time too. I'll install it this weekend to test next week. Unfortunately I've only got about a week to play with it before stripping the E-drive system off so I can begin the physical prep for Tour de Tucson. 100 miles, no power assist allowed. And following that I'll be testing a BBS02.

I'm putting a series of articles together for the trike community on power assist.

The HPV FS26 test mule currently has a MAC 10T on it.

 

[Sunder]

Yes, but lo and behold I got an email today. They shipped the order, and better yet, its Fedex overnight.

Just in time too. I'll install it this weekend to test next week. Unfortunately I've only got about a week to play with it before stripping the E-drive system off so I can begin the physical prep for Tour de Tucson. 100 miles, no power assist allowed. And following that I'll be testing a BBS02.

Thanks for the update That's awesome. Let us know how you go.

I think I'll start ordering plugs that match the Phaserunner now, so I'll be ready to go as soon as mine gets made.

Cheers.

 

[Sunder]

I think I'll start ordering plugs that match the Phaserunner now, so I'll be ready to go as soon as mine gets made.
Cheers.

It appears that Justin is no longer using the part numbers on the ASI manual. A pity. I thought it was a great idea to publish the matching connectors, so that you didn't have to hunt them down.

Does anyone know what the new connectors Justin are using are? I've tried to search this thread, and there are photos, but no part numbers.

Thanks.

 

[Jason3]

It appears that Justin is no longer using the part numbers on the ASI manual. A pity. I thought it was a great idea to publish the matching connectors, so that you didn't have to hunt them down.

Does anyone know what the new connectors Justin are using are? I've tried to search this thread, and there are photos, but no part numbers.

Thanks.

Anderson Powerpoles for the motor phase and battery leads, JST-SM in various sizes for the others. Why not get Grin to add the bag of connectors to your order and ship them with the PhaseRunner:

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/connectors/conbag.html

Regards,

Jason

 

[MrDude_1]

I think I'll start ordering plugs that match the Phaserunner now, so I'll be ready to go as soon as mine gets made.
Cheers.

It appears that Justin is no longer using the part numbers on the ASI manual. A pity. I thought it was a great idea to publish the matching connectors, so that you didn't have to hunt them down.

Does anyone know what the new connectors Justin are using are? I've tried to search this thread, and there are photos, but no part numbers.

Thanks.

He's using the standard grin connectors all compatible controllers use. Everything they sell uses them.

 

[cavallo pazzo]

It might be interesting to buy some powerpoles, PP15, PP30 and PP45, the crimping tool, a bag of JST plugs and the JST crimping tool, to be able to build optimal wiring for the project.
For exemple, I like to shorten standard 140 cm phases wires when possible, sometimes from 140 cm to 20 cm, reducing resistance, weight and mess on the bike.
You need to redo Powerpoles and JST to do so.