Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

[teklektik]

Workaround for Entering Hi Range RShunt Values of 1.0 mOhm or Greater in v3B21

Although v3B21 processing can handle RShunt values of 1.0 or greater in High Range, the Setup screen does not allow entry of such values. However, Setup in the earlier v3B19 does. The workaround is simply to enter the necessary value in v3B19 then re-flash with v3B21 which will leave the RShunt calibration value unchanged and ready for use.

Here's a summary of the Setup entry screen formats for both versions:

           v3B19      v3B21      Actual Value
Lo Range   1.000      1.000      1.000
Hi Range   0.1000       1000     0.1000

Note: It is not possible to reliably enter a value in the least significant digit of RShunt in High Range for either B19 or B21 - a seemingly random digit will appear. This is an artifact of the programming and will introduce no inaccuracy.

The procedure is straightforward:

1. Save Cal->RShunt and Cal->VScale if they are not otherwise available.
2. Flash the CA using the v3B19 firmware file from the Grin Tech V3 web page (CA3B19.hex).
   This will erase the calibration settings.
3. Enter Setup and set Cal->Range = Hi and Cal->RShunt to the desired value.
4. Exit Setup.
5. Flash the CA using the v3B21 firmware file from the Grin Tech V3 web page (CA3_B21_NoCal.hex).
   This will preserve existing calibration settings, leaving Cal->RShunt unchanged.
6. Enter Setup and navigate to and enter the Calibration section. Set Cal->Range = Hi.
   This value is always reset to Low when flashed and must be manually adjusted so the preserved Cal->RShunt value is interpreted correctly.
7. Complete the Calibration setup, entering the saved value of Cal->VScale.
8. Leave the Calibration section and verify that the RShunt value shown on the Calibration section screen is correct.
9. Return to the beginning of Setup and configure the CA normally.
   
   Note: High Range allows 10x larger values for Plim->Max Current and Plim->MaxPower. In addition, the associated gain settings Plim->AGain and Plim->WGain also need to be scaled up by a factor of ten over the Low Range settings (e.g. WGain=10 in Lo Range should be entered as WGain=100 in Hi Range).

Although the v3B21 Rshunt entry screen in High Range does not show the units digit and decimal point (e.g. '1.'), once this procedure has been completed and the desired units digit is in place, the v3B21 RShunt screen can be used to modify the digits after the hidden "1" and decimal point (e.g to correct an entry error of 1.234 to 1.432). Also, the new Rshunt value will survive subsequent flashes of v3B20 or higher.

Returning to Cal->Range = Lo requires a similar v3B19 preflash step to clear the RShunt units digit.

 

[Philistine]

Thanks Teklektik,

You are right, I had thought "speed" meant being like the old CA. I followed the thread and disabled throttle ctrl mode, but I still get the same result. Everything works fine it is just that I get no greater power than as if I had my controller programmed to about 5 amps. Basically full throttle gets me about 200W and resultant speed.

 

[teklektik]

...I followed the thread and disabled throttle ctrl mode, but I still get the same result. Everything works fine it is just that I get no greater power than as if I had my controller programmed to about 5 amps. Basically full throttle gets me about 200W and resultant speed.

Okay - with the throttle properly configured, etc., there must be a limit kicking in. The next thing to look at is the Limits display. This should point to the culprit.

Go to the screen one left of the main display and eyeball the string of characters on the lower left. Take a peek at this post and then go for a ride. The letter that goes capital will reflect the offending setting. Review the associated max setting and see if an adjustment relieves the problem.

If this doesn't do the trick, please post your thottle In/Out, speedometer, and power limit settings. Also, on that same debug screen (one left of the main display), please note the IN and OUT voltages both when standing and when underway with the limiting kicking in.

 

[justin_le]

Hi AW,

Yes, I did the same a couple of months ago. Connected the Thun and the CAv3 B(early) to my 20S 84V pack. The CAv3 started smoking and stopped working.
Justin told me it is repairable.

Well pretty much anything is repairable, though I had a case a few months ago where someone had fried a CA by shorting 72V somewhere where they shouldn't. First I replaced a tantalum capacitor, then one op-amp, then the other op-amp, then the microprocessor, and finally realized the entire LCD module logic was fried too so I had to replace that. At that point, all that was left from the original board were the smt resistors and caps so it might as well be a new device

Anyways, it's a good point that there should definitely be a more clear disclaimer about the use of the THUN getting powered from the CA beyond 48V.

Amberwolf, figure out what is blown and we can send the replacement parts. It would be smart as well to check that the THUN doesn't have a short in the wires after the installation, so power that directly from a 12V source and see if you are getting the appropriate signals (2.5V for the torque line and 0-5V toggling on the other two). I did have one THUN sensor fail during our field testing, seems to have been a result of water ingress through the potting, with a the result that the THUN board circuitry failed in a way that drew excessive currents from the supply leads, and as a result that in turn took out the CA.

-Justin

 

[justin_le]

[*]As mentioned in an earlier post, the RShunt data entry format in High Range (xxxx) seems a step back from the v3B19 format (x.xxxx). The exact position of the decimal point is unclear. By experiment, it turns out that it's to the left of the entry field (.xxxx), that is, 0.9999 = 9999.

Shoot, I see what I did now. Sorry guys! Tekletik is right that the leading decimal point is missing when setting up for a high range shunt mode. So as implemented you should only be able to input 0.9999 mOhm max in high range, and 9.999 mOhm max in low range, as per the original CA design. However, since the B21 firmware doesn't overwrite the calibration data, if you had previously setup the shunt for an additional digit (say 1.400 mOhm in high range mode) before reflashing, it would keep this value even though it is hidden from editing.

That was a bit boneheaded of me, I should have made it so that you can set from 0.08 to 9.99 mOhm in high range mode, and 0.8 to 99.9 mOhm in low range mode. That would be the best way to eliminate possibility of phantom digits while also giving people more flexibility in how they setup their CA. I promise B22 will be done that way.

displayed correctly on the Calibration section screen (1.40) although the RShunt Setup screen showed 4033 instead (missing the leading "1." and with the puzzling trailing "3").

trailing '3' is because the CA doesn't actually store your Shunt value as an integer, rather it calculates and stores the inverse of RShunt (conductance) so that the runtime calculations are faster, and then it re-inverses this again whenever it needs to to show it as an RShunt. It's of no consequence, but it is why sometimes you'll put in a number for the Shunt and then the very last digit will appear to change up or down one unit once it saves.

 

[Philistine]

Philistine wrote:
...I followed the thread and disabled throttle ctrl mode, but I still get the same result. Everything works fine it is just that I get no greater power than as if I had my controller programmed to about 5 amps. Basically full throttle gets me about 200W and resultant speed.

Okay - with the throttle properly configured, etc., there must be a limit kicking in. The next thing to look at is the Limits display. This should point to the culprit.

Go to the screen one left of the main display and eyeball the string of characters on the lower left. Take a peek at this post and then go for a ride. The letter that goes capital will reflect the offending setting. Review the associated max setting and see if an adjustment relieves the problem.

I really appreciate the assistance tekletiktik, your contribution (it terms of meaningful help) is simpy heroic, thanks mate.

Unforutnatenly, still plugging away.....

 

[justin_le]

I really appreciate the assistance tekletiktik, your contribution (it terms of meaningful help) is simpy heroic, thanks mate.
Unforutnatenly, still plugging away.....

Hey Philistine, with the throttle input mode set to "disabled", the throttle output of the CA should sit at the max throttle output voltage by default. So if you go to the display screen that shows input and output throttle voltages in realtime, can you tell us what voltage you see for Vi and Vo?

Otherwise though, if you aren't after any limiting features right now you can postpone sorting all this out and disconnect the green throttle output signal wire from the CA so that it doesn't connect to the controller. You can either desolder it from the CA circuitboard, or pull it out of the 6-pin CA-DP connector, or open the controller and detach it inside there. Then there is no physical way possible that the CA could limit anything.

-Justin

 

[justin_le]

I know this isn't in the buy-sell forum but hopefully the mods will cut me a little slack since I really want this for people who've been following this thread. If you HAVE been wanting to get in on a V3 CA device but the price is just out of reach, we're running a short Christmas special until the end of the week at $90 for a CA3-DP and $95 for the CA3-DPS, so 40% off the normal cost. So hopefully that will make it a bit more accessible to those doing cool projects on a tighter budget. Maximum of 2 per person. They are listed on the following link which will be active until Dec 22nd:
http://ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3X.php.



The CA3 Shunt is listed there as well with pass-thru wires for the throttle signal if you need to hook things up to a controller without a CA-DP plug and want easy wiring access to the CA's throttle output.

There are a lot of topics people have brought up here and I'm hoping to have some time during the holidays to go through the last 10-20 pages and reply in some depth on things that haven't been fully addressed. And thanks again to all those with the Beta CA3's who are helping the first time users get their systems setup here, your contributions have been amazing.

-Justin

 

[Diamondback]

I know this isn't in the buy-sell forum but hopefully the mods will cut me a little slack since I really want this for people who've been following this thread. If you HAVE been wanting to get in on a V3 CA device but the price is just out of reach, we're running a short Christmas special until the end of the week at $90 for a CA3-DP and $95 for the CA3-DPS, so 40% off the normal cost. So hopefully that will make it a bit more accessible to those doing cool projects on a tighter budget. Maximum of 2 per person. They are listed on the following link which will be active until Dec 22nd:
http://ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3X.php.



The CA3 Shunt is listed there as well with pass-thru wires for the throttle signal if you need to hook things up to a controller without a CA-DP plug and want easy wiring access to the CA's throttle output.

There are a lot of topics people have brought up here and I'm hoping to have some time during the holidays to go through the last 10-20 pages and reply in some depth on things that haven't been fully addressed. And thanks again to all those with the Beta CA3's who are helping the first time users get their systems setup here, your contributions have been amazing.

-Justin

Hi Justin.

can i buy and pay now, but wait until you have a final FW before you ship the CA ?

Jason.

 

[teklektik]

Unfortunately, still plugging away.....

Hey Philistine, with the throttle input mode set to "disabled", the throttle output of the CA should sit at the max throttle output voltage by default. So if you go to the display screen that shows input and output throttle voltages in realtime, can you tell us what voltage you see for Vi and Vo?

Otherwise though, if you aren't after any limiting features right now you can postpone sorting all this out and disconnect the green throttle output signal wire from the CA so that it doesn't connect to the controller. You can either desolder it from the CA circuitboard, or pull it out of the 6-pin CA-DP connector, or open the controller and detach it inside there. Then there is no physical way possible that the CA could limit anything.

Phil-
Here's a little background on the reason we were asking about the (throttle) IN and OUT voltages on the debug screen: In legacy mode, you should always see IN = 0.0v since there is no throttle connected to the CA. Throttle OUT should reflect ThrO->MaxOutput when there is no limiting going on and it can fall as low as ThrO->MinOutput with full limiting in force.

I was trying to avoid disconnecting the CA green throttle wire, but if you are still having issues, disabling limiting completely will certainly be a quick fix just to get the bike running in monitor-only mode. However, there is one last trick you can try before you whip out the soldering iron...

I haven't tried this, but it should work: set ThrO->MinOutput = 4.90v and ThrO->MaxOutput = 4.99v. If your issue is a configuration problem and not electrical, this should have the same effect as disconnecting the throttle wire.

These voltages are both too high to limit the user throttle connected to the controller. The result will be to prevent the CA from having any effect even when it tries to go into full out limiting because Throttle OUT will not be able to fall below 4.90v. This is kind of sleazy and doesn't really resolve your issue, but it might be worth a go before you start tinkering the hardware.

• EDIT - Setting ThrO->MinOutput this high probably qualifies as a 'dangerous setting' as it will cause the CA to drive the bike to WOT on power up if you re-wire and switch to non-legacy mode (i.e. throttle hooked to CA instead of controller). Please set ThrO->MinOutput = 1.0v before you use this CA in non-legacy mode. (This might make disconnecting the throttle wire a preferable approach if you are the forgetful sort :wink:.)

 

[Dingo2024]

I know this isn't in the buy-sell forum but hopefully the mods will cut me a little slack since I really want this for people who've been following this thread. If you HAVE been wanting to get in on a V3 CA device but the price is just out of reach, we're running a short Christmas special until the end of the week at $90 for a CA3-DP and $95 for the CA3-DPS, so 40% off the normal cost. So hopefully that will make it a bit more accessible to those doing cool projects on a tighter budget. Maximum of 2 per person. They are listed on the following link which will be active until Dec 22nd:
http://ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3X.php.



The CA3 Shunt is listed there as well with pass-thru wires for the throttle signal if you need to hook things up to a controller without a CA-DP plug and want easy wiring access to the CA's throttle output.

There are a lot of topics people have brought up here and I'm hoping to have some time during the holidays to go through the last 10-20 pages and reply in some depth on things that haven't been fully addressed. And thanks again to all those with the Beta CA3's who are helping the first time users get their systems setup here, your contributions have been amazing.

-Justin

Hi Justin,

any chance you could come up with Xmas special on the CA3 / thun kit (CA3_TorqueKit) please?

Ian

 

[justin_le]

Hi Justin,
any chance you could come up with Xmas special on the CA3 / thun kit (CA3_TorqueKit) please?
Ian

Tssk tsk, now yer getting greedy! Send us an email (info@ebikes.ca) with your situation. The THUN sensors imported from Germany were already quite expensive unfortunately so there isn't a whole lot of room there, but we may have a used one left over from one of the testing/demo ebikes.

 

[Dingo2024]

Hi Justin,
any chance you could come up with Xmas special on the CA3 / thun kit (CA3_TorqueKit) please?
Ian

Tssk tsk, now yer getting greedy! Send us an email (info@ebikes.ca) with your situation. The THUN sensors imported from Germany were already quite expensive unfortunately so there isn't a whole lot of room there, but we may have a used one left over from one of the testing/demo ebikes.

sorry..........my bad Justin

a little misunderstanding.....................

not after a cheap THUN sensor but could you put the CA3_TorqueKit in the Xmas link so I can purchase the complete thing (but with the reduced CA cost)?.......if that makes sense

thanks

Ian

 

[mrbill]

If you HAVE been wanting to get in on a V3 CA device but the price is just out of reach, we're running a short Christmas special until the end of the week at $90 for a CA3-DP and $95 for the CA3-DPS, so 40% off the normal cost. So hopefully that will make it a bit more accessible to those doing cool projects on a tighter budget. Maximum of 2 per person. They are listed on the following link which will be active until Dec 22nd:
http://ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3X.php.



-Justin

Hi Justin:

I've been following this discussion with interest. I think that the enhancements to the CycleAnalyst that you and other forum members have been collaborating on are very cool and useful.

Maybe because of the kind of riding I do I'm the only one who wants it, but I haven't seen much mention of a cruise control functionality in the CA-mediated throttle control (either speed or power mode). I would like to take advantage of your special offer, but I'd like to check first with you in regards to the following:

Do you anticipate that cruise control functionality will be implemented in the CAV3 with updated programming, or would it require a further hardware revision?

Thanks.

 

[oatnet]

I know this isn't in the buy-sell forum but hopefully the mods will cut me a little slack since I really want this for people who've been following this thread. If you HAVE been wanting to get in on a V3 CA device but the price is just out of reach, we're running a short Christmas special until the end of the week at $90 for a CA3-DP and $95 for the CA3-DPS, so 40% off the normal cost. So hopefully that will make it a bit more accessible to those doing cool projects on a tighter budget. Maximum of 2 per person. They are listed on the following link which will be active until Dec 22nd:
http://ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3X.php. [/url]

Thanks Justin, but I didn't get you anything! :lol: Holy Smokes what a good deal.

Happy Holidays!
-JD

 

[teklektik]

Hi Justin:
...
I would like to take advantage of your special offer, but I'd like to check first with you in regards to the following:

Do you anticipate that cruise control functionality will be implemented in the CAV3 with updated programming, or would it require a further hardware revision?

Unfortunately, Justin has a lot on his plate and can't always look in on this ES thread. Best to email him at info@ebikes.ca for time-sensitive issues (such as this really cool sale ).

 

[justin_le]

not after a cheap THUN sensor but could you put the CA3_TorqueKit in the Xmas link so I can purchase the complete thing (but with the reduced CA cost)?.......if that makes sense
Ian

Oh, my bad! Actually, there is no need to have it all listed on the same table. If you add the CA3 Xmas Special to the cart, then click the links above to navigate away and back to the CA page that has all the accessories you'll be able to add the torque kit and anything else to the mix and the promo CA3 should still stay in the cart.

Orders placed by the end of tonight will be able to ship it out before we close for the holidays, but the sale page will still be up until Saturday to give people a bit more chance, in which case it will ship in the new year.

-Justin

 

[rscamp]

I can confirm this works. I just ordered the CA V3 special and was able to navigate away to add the programming cable to the cart.

Thanks for the Christmas special, Justin!

The web site was a bit finicky though. Too much traffic?

 

[justin_le]

Hi Justin:
...
I would like to take advantage of your special offer, but I'd like to check first with you in regards to the following:
Do you anticipate that cruise control functionality will be implemented in the CAV3 with updated programming, or would it require a further hardware revision?

Unfortunately, Justin has a lot on his plate and can't always look in on this ES thread. Best to email him at info@ebikes.ca for time-sensitive issues (such as this really cool sale ).

Teklektik is right on the mark here. However since I AM online now I can answer this one, which is a definitive yes.

Cruise control is one of the next things on the feature list, and it will be just a software updated with no hardware change. The planned implementation will be 'autocruise' style, where if you hold the same throttle position for a fixed amount of time (it would be user programmable, like 2-9 seconds), the CA would then latch onto that allowing you to return the throttle back to zero. The autocruise would release the moment you started to engage the throttle again, or the moment the ebrake lever is closed.

-Justin

 

[amberwolf]

First, a big thank you to Justin for helping me over here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=678269#p678269
cuz now my CA mostly works, powering it from 12V. I am not sure what caused the other problems I have (see link for further posts).


I do have one nitpick with the way a parameter is expressed in setup. Copied below from my page linked above.

***********
This particualr bit of setup is extremely unintuitive, and totally confusing; I can't even imagine a reason why it was made this way.

# ThrO->UpRamp and ThrO->DownRamp are nominally 500 and have a range of 000-999. The larger the value the shorter the ramp time (a value of 000 will never ramp). Start simple with 'instant-on/off' operation like that of v2.23 by setting both ramp values to 999.

I do wish it could be changed to the opposite, so that a lower number = shorter ramp time, and the number would best be expressed in microseconds, so that you could have up to essentially a 1 second ramp up, or down to zero time ramp up.

 

[NeilP]

Thanks Justin..Just ordered mine. Did need a torque sensor crank too, but not sure what length I need for now and I am away from home ( in a different country today) so that can wait though..till you give us a special deal on those too

 

[izeman]

Just wanted to thank you and share my customer experience with ebikes.ca
I ordered my CA 24h ago. Then checked this thread (which I've subscribed) to see Justin's announcement. Dropped them an email and asked for the discount, and got a refund to my PayPal account. No questions asked.

THAT'S GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE.

Thanks a lot to Justin and the team!

 

[mrbill]

Cruise control is one of the next things on the feature list, and it will be just a software updated with no hardware change. The planned implementation will be 'autocruise' style, where if you hold the same throttle position for a fixed amount of time (it would be user programmable, like 2-9 seconds), the CA would then latch onto that allowing you to return the throttle back to zero. The autocruise would release the moment you started to engage the throttle again, or the moment the ebrake lever is closed.

-Justin

Hi Justin:

Thanks for your prompt reply. I put in my order for the CA-V3 and TTL-USB cable yesterday evening. Feel free to ignore the separate email query I sent re: cruise control support.

 

[Alan B]

I have been thinking about getting another one or two of these V3's. Thanks Justin, made me order two more. Looking forward to upgrade all my ebikes to V3 and get the new firmware. Nice Christmas present!

 

[pendragon8000]

hi, sory if this has been asked already. just want to upgrade firmware to that version that has preogramabl modes so i can have easy change of power limit. I opted not to get a cord when i got my kit from Hyena, regretfully.
Can anyone tell me how to make one? is it 3.5 mm tip ring ring sleeve to usb? I asume yes. so is ring ring data, sleeve neg- and tip pos+ ? which ring and ring goes to with data + and data -.
thanks, for any help.