Cyclone Motor Mid-Drive Guide for IDIOTS Needed!
- Thread starter KAZUALT
- Start date
heathyoung
100 kW
If you run a 24V cyclone internal controller on 36V you will kill it. Simple. There are caps are rated for 35V (10uf) that let out the magic smoke. Mosfets and voltage reg are still running within spec.
Its a simple matter to mod the controller for 36V by replacing the three (IIRC) caps with 50V 10uf SMD's. Remember that this will increase the RPM and also the power of the motor (which uses a shunt based on two resistors for current monitoring). It also has a temperature sensor so you are less likely to melt something. I've been modifying mine for rotation direction, power and voltage. Its pretty simple stuff, just fiddly. The LVC and voltage indicators on the throttle will also be out of whack for a 36V system - throttle uses a microcontroller for LVC detection and applies the brakes to proceedings when things get too low.
Its also very simple to waterproof these properly as well - Lots of neutral cure silicon - I use Permatex Ultra Black - its non-conductive, even when wet, non-corrosive, high temperature and cleans up well with isopropanol when wet. Ditto on the throttle, pleanty of ultra black, and its waterproof.
You could upgrade the mosfets if you like, they aren't too bad to begin with though. Lower RDS On would make for higher efficiency.
Its a simple matter to mod the controller for 36V by replacing the three (IIRC) caps with 50V 10uf SMD's. Remember that this will increase the RPM and also the power of the motor (which uses a shunt based on two resistors for current monitoring). It also has a temperature sensor so you are less likely to melt something. I've been modifying mine for rotation direction, power and voltage. Its pretty simple stuff, just fiddly. The LVC and voltage indicators on the throttle will also be out of whack for a 36V system - throttle uses a microcontroller for LVC detection and applies the brakes to proceedings when things get too low.
Its also very simple to waterproof these properly as well - Lots of neutral cure silicon - I use Permatex Ultra Black - its non-conductive, even when wet, non-corrosive, high temperature and cleans up well with isopropanol when wet. Ditto on the throttle, pleanty of ultra black, and its waterproof.
You could upgrade the mosfets if you like, they aren't too bad to begin with though. Lower RDS On would make for higher efficiency.
deardancer3
10 kW
I have run both 360 and 500w cyclones. I run a 360 on a semi-recumbent.
I had NO problems with water after sealing them with silicon. Throttles are a different story.
My trike was very happy with a 500w cyclone. But I must say that I run it at less than 28v. Some folks reported shortening lifetime at 36v. 30 volts seems to be the sweetspot.
I would stay away from a 360w on a trike unless you must have light weight performance and would never need tractor like performance. I do like the 36V specs because-- the power you need is dependant on the load, not the motor, and at 500 + watts needed, 36v is just an easier current draw on batteries.
The cyclones, like many motors, will deliver peak power over twice the continous rating. Calculate the current required for 1100watts at 24v. 46A -- that is a battery killer.
One way to manage the peak current draw is keep the cyclone motor rev.'s high where efficiency is high.
d
I had NO problems with water after sealing them with silicon. Throttles are a different story.
My trike was very happy with a 500w cyclone. But I must say that I run it at less than 28v. Some folks reported shortening lifetime at 36v. 30 volts seems to be the sweetspot.
I would stay away from a 360w on a trike unless you must have light weight performance and would never need tractor like performance. I do like the 36V specs because-- the power you need is dependant on the load, not the motor, and at 500 + watts needed, 36v is just an easier current draw on batteries.
The cyclones, like many motors, will deliver peak power over twice the continous rating. Calculate the current required for 1100watts at 24v. 46A -- that is a battery killer.
One way to manage the peak current draw is keep the cyclone motor rev.'s high where efficiency is high.
d
d,
THanks for the trike info. I am going to just have to suck it up and save aliitle more. The 500watt seems to be the way to go for me. I was just not wanting to spend alot on batteries. But you get what you pay for so 500watt it is.
The Cyclone USA web page doesn't have near as many options as th TW page. USA says you can not use external controllers & TW sells ust that. Little confusing. If I wouldn't have looked alittle closer and found the TW site I probably wouldn't be doing a cyclone.
Since I will be putting this together over the period of 3 months or so I have time to save enough money for my setup. First purchase will be after Thanks Giving weekend. As I buy them I will post. Hopefully by the time I am done there will be a step by step post showing how to install a 500watt cyclone on a trike.
Please keep the info coming. I can use as much knowledge on cyclone motors that I can get.
KAZUALT
HAPPY TURKEY DAY
THanks for the trike info. I am going to just have to suck it up and save aliitle more. The 500watt seems to be the way to go for me. I was just not wanting to spend alot on batteries. But you get what you pay for so 500watt it is.
The Cyclone USA web page doesn't have near as many options as th TW page. USA says you can not use external controllers & TW sells ust that. Little confusing. If I wouldn't have looked alittle closer and found the TW site I probably wouldn't be doing a cyclone.
Since I will be putting this together over the period of 3 months or so I have time to save enough money for my setup. First purchase will be after Thanks Giving weekend. As I buy them I will post. Hopefully by the time I am done there will be a step by step post showing how to install a 500watt cyclone on a trike.
Please keep the info coming. I can use as much knowledge on cyclone motors that I can get.
KAZUALT
HAPPY TURKEY DAY
gunthn
100 W
Does anyone buy from cyclone usa?
Paco seems to have kept all the business for himself in Taichung. :wink:
Kazault,
What type of battery are you going to use?
The 500 is such a nice little package. Just bolt it and go.
Paco seems to have kept all the business for himself in Taichung. :wink:
Kazault,
What type of battery are you going to use?
The 500 is such a nice little package. Just bolt it and go.
rhitee05
10 kW
I'm slowly working on building a setup for myself based on the Cyclone with external controller. I bought the parts direct from cyclone-tw. My setup will be a little different than standard, so I just got the motor and 650W (24V) controller a la carte and saved a few bucks on the parts I wasn't going to use anyway.
I posted a bunch of pics and info about the motor and external controller here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12892#p191300
For the external version, the 24V controller looks like it should be good for 36V easily. The caps and FETs are both rated for 50V or higher. I haven't thoroughly investigated the little details like on-board logic supply regulator, but they should handle 36V as well. This design seems more robust and more flexible than the integrated controller that comes with the 360W/500W motors. It's all the same motor, just with or without the controller board inside. Similarly, it seems to me that the higher-rated external controllers are just the same box with slightly different components as needed. That's why I got the 650W one, and will modify it as necessary for future upgrades. I eventually plan to run it with 10s LiPo for about 38V nominal, so I probably don't need to do anything for that voltage.
I would definitely suggest the external controller, for flexibility, and also better power handling. Putting both the motor windings and power electronics in that little package makes for a high power density and it's hard to cool if you're going to work it hard.
I posted a bunch of pics and info about the motor and external controller here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12892#p191300
For the external version, the 24V controller looks like it should be good for 36V easily. The caps and FETs are both rated for 50V or higher. I haven't thoroughly investigated the little details like on-board logic supply regulator, but they should handle 36V as well. This design seems more robust and more flexible than the integrated controller that comes with the 360W/500W motors. It's all the same motor, just with or without the controller board inside. Similarly, it seems to me that the higher-rated external controllers are just the same box with slightly different components as needed. That's why I got the 650W one, and will modify it as necessary for future upgrades. I eventually plan to run it with 10s LiPo for about 38V nominal, so I probably don't need to do anything for that voltage.
I would definitely suggest the external controller, for flexibility, and also better power handling. Putting both the motor windings and power electronics in that little package makes for a high power density and it's hard to cool if you're going to work it hard.
rhitee05,
I also will be buying my setup in pieces. Other than lipo what battery would yo need to run a 650watt? Looking at the specs for it, the torque difference between the 500 & 650 made me situp and take notice. Also it seems like the 500watt has a built in controller. Are you going to use the throttle they offer? At first I was just going to get the 360W and be cheap about it. But after the great advice that I got here I will be using the 650watt and 36v external. From some of ther earlier post I get the feeling a little beefer controller is worth the extra $. Nice Pics, Keep Them Coming
Cyclone Motor Specs
DC 24V Brushless motor
360W
* Max speed 3600Rpm
* Rated speed 2600Rpm
* Rated output 360W
* Max output 550W
* Rated Torque 13.5Kg-cm
* Max Torque 32Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 16.5A
* Insulation class E class
* Driver Built in
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 97.6%
* weight 1.8Kg
500W
* Max speed 3600Rpm
* Rated speed 2500Rpm
* Rated output 500W
* Max output 700W
* Rated Torque 20Kg-cm
* Max Torque 42Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 24A
* Insulation class E class
* Driver Built in
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 97%
* weight 2.2Kg
650W
* Max speed 2500Rpm
* Rated speed 2050Rpm
* Rated output 650W
* Max output 1020.5W
* Rated Torque 42Kg-cm
* Max Torque 63.3Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 33.37A
* Insulation class E class
* External Driver
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 94.89%
* weight 4Kg
KAZUALT
I also will be buying my setup in pieces. Other than lipo what battery would yo need to run a 650watt? Looking at the specs for it, the torque difference between the 500 & 650 made me situp and take notice. Also it seems like the 500watt has a built in controller. Are you going to use the throttle they offer? At first I was just going to get the 360W and be cheap about it. But after the great advice that I got here I will be using the 650watt and 36v external. From some of ther earlier post I get the feeling a little beefer controller is worth the extra $. Nice Pics, Keep Them Coming
Cyclone Motor Specs
DC 24V Brushless motor
360W
* Max speed 3600Rpm
* Rated speed 2600Rpm
* Rated output 360W
* Max output 550W
* Rated Torque 13.5Kg-cm
* Max Torque 32Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 16.5A
* Insulation class E class
* Driver Built in
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 97.6%
* weight 1.8Kg
500W
* Max speed 3600Rpm
* Rated speed 2500Rpm
* Rated output 500W
* Max output 700W
* Rated Torque 20Kg-cm
* Max Torque 42Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 24A
* Insulation class E class
* Driver Built in
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 97%
* weight 2.2Kg
650W
* Max speed 2500Rpm
* Rated speed 2050Rpm
* Rated output 650W
* Max output 1020.5W
* Rated Torque 42Kg-cm
* Max Torque 63.3Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 33.37A
* Insulation class E class
* External Driver
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 94.89%
* weight 4Kg
KAZUALT
boostjuice
10 kW
This is a long post, but it gives important background knowledge for anyone considering Cyclone kits/components.
The specifications on the Cyclone website are confusing, patchy, unorganised and some cases a blatant lie (efficiency in particular. Some dynometer graphs show much lower efficiencies than claimed in text).
Here's my attempt to clear things up a bit from what i have learnt in my web wanderings and communication with the company.
Firstly, there are two size classes within the planetary motor selection, but the larger of the two sizes are manufactured in both internal and external controller configurations. I am in agreement with others that the internal controller models should be avoided by anyone looking for a setup that doesn't need to conform to 200W limit regulations. The fact that the motor and controller are thermally coupled is a recepe for unreliability.
These motors are manufactured by Headline electric Taiwan and resold by Cyclone with the kit components. http://www.headline-motor.com/bldc-scooter-driving-motors.php
The motor options go like this;
- Short barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox with 24V rated 200W(250W really) > 360W internal motor controller
- Long barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox with 24V rated 500W internal controller
- Long barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox wired for use with 36V/48V rated 650W>1200W external controllers
Headline Electric External Controllers
Electrically (Excluding the rescaled LED 'fuel guage' indicator levels programmed into the MCU), there are only two types of external controller also manufactured by Headline Electric Taiwan and resold by Cyclone. Although the Cyclone website would seem to suggest there are four versions, the two upper and lower spec models contain the same power electronics despite having different voltage rating labels stuck to the casings.
The 36V 900W/48V 1200W controllers are the same and have 75V rated Fets (IRFP2907 - RDSon = 3.6mOhm) and 100V rated capacitors so max voltage = 75V
The 24V 650W/36V 720W controllers are the same and have 60V rated Fets (IRFP064V - RDSon = 5.5mOhm) and 50V rated capacitors so max voltage = 50V
It is my strong suggestion that anyone buying these motors/controllers/kits should opt for the larger 650W>1200W version with a 36V/48V external controller. Regardless of the intended voltage that the motor is run at, reliability and upgradability increase and the price difference between the 24V/36V and 36V/48V external controllers/kits is trivial. The 36V/48V 900/1200W version is electrically rated to as high as 75V by its internal components, but the RDSon of it's mosfets is lower than those within the 24V/36V 650W/720W external controller. This results in greater efficiency and less heat build up at any driven voltage and current between 24V>75V.
Moving on now to the large diameter "1000W/1500W/3000W" motor with no planetary gearbox like these;
Cyclone can't seem to ever settle on an advertised power rating for these. Originally they were "1000W motors" and now they're "1500W motors" so as not to seem less powerful than the "1200W" planetary motor kits that were more recently marketed when Cyclone started selling the planetary motors with the more powerful external controllers. Nothing has changed. They are the same motor, and both use the same 36V/48V 900W/1200W external controller.
These controllers are conservatively rated and can actually produce peaks >2600W. The realistic power rating of these controllers largely depends on gearing reduction.
This is explained in further detail here; http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9637#p149374
There is a bit of history to Cyclone's marketing of the large diameter motors. At one point they realised these big motors were capable of handling more power than the Headline external controllers could provide so they made up kits utilising a Kelly 48V/150A peak controller instead of the factory intended external 36V/48V 900W/1200W Headline electric controllers. They marketed these for a short time as their "3000W" upgrade option. However they soon realised that the 40,000 electrical RPM limit of these hub-motor intended controllers limited these higher RPM 24 pole motors to 1666RPM maximum mechanincal RPM and so scrapped the idea because of the limited too-low powerband. Because of this, they no longer list these for sale on their website and now sell their double "1000W" kits as their flagship max power setup. No doubt the Headline External controllers have a higher electrical RPM able to utilise the full powerband of the motors for which they were designed for.
The 650W specs and dynometer chart listed on the Cyclone website are for a motor they used to sell that was based on a cut down/shorter barrel version of the "1500W" large diameter non-planetary equipped motors. They used to have a picture of them on their website when they sold these, but were dropped as they are inferior to the long barrelled planetary gearbox equipped motors with an external controller. They were heavier, bulkier and needed similar speed reduction for bottom bracket driven setups which was difficult without the convienience of an attached planetary gearbox. Not easy for Cyclone to implement with chain and sprockets alone.
This is the only picture i could find of what they looked like, its the one on the left (notice the mounting tabs that dont exist on the "1500W" motors).
Hope this helps people understand the scattered Cyclone website a little better. They don't remove old information very often/effectively and this together with the ambiguity of much of their information leads to a lot of customer confusion. (it took a long while to get my head around it).
The specifications on the Cyclone website are confusing, patchy, unorganised and some cases a blatant lie (efficiency in particular. Some dynometer graphs show much lower efficiencies than claimed in text).
Here's my attempt to clear things up a bit from what i have learnt in my web wanderings and communication with the company.
Firstly, there are two size classes within the planetary motor selection, but the larger of the two sizes are manufactured in both internal and external controller configurations. I am in agreement with others that the internal controller models should be avoided by anyone looking for a setup that doesn't need to conform to 200W limit regulations. The fact that the motor and controller are thermally coupled is a recepe for unreliability.
These motors are manufactured by Headline electric Taiwan and resold by Cyclone with the kit components. http://www.headline-motor.com/bldc-scooter-driving-motors.php
The motor options go like this;
- Short barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox with 24V rated 200W(250W really) > 360W internal motor controller
- Long barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox with 24V rated 500W internal controller
- Long barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox wired for use with 36V/48V rated 650W>1200W external controllers
Headline Electric External Controllers
Electrically (Excluding the rescaled LED 'fuel guage' indicator levels programmed into the MCU), there are only two types of external controller also manufactured by Headline Electric Taiwan and resold by Cyclone. Although the Cyclone website would seem to suggest there are four versions, the two upper and lower spec models contain the same power electronics despite having different voltage rating labels stuck to the casings.
The 36V 900W/48V 1200W controllers are the same and have 75V rated Fets (IRFP2907 - RDSon = 3.6mOhm) and 100V rated capacitors so max voltage = 75V
The 24V 650W/36V 720W controllers are the same and have 60V rated Fets (IRFP064V - RDSon = 5.5mOhm) and 50V rated capacitors so max voltage = 50V
It is my strong suggestion that anyone buying these motors/controllers/kits should opt for the larger 650W>1200W version with a 36V/48V external controller. Regardless of the intended voltage that the motor is run at, reliability and upgradability increase and the price difference between the 24V/36V and 36V/48V external controllers/kits is trivial. The 36V/48V 900/1200W version is electrically rated to as high as 75V by its internal components, but the RDSon of it's mosfets is lower than those within the 24V/36V 650W/720W external controller. This results in greater efficiency and less heat build up at any driven voltage and current between 24V>75V.
Moving on now to the large diameter "1000W/1500W/3000W" motor with no planetary gearbox like these;
Cyclone can't seem to ever settle on an advertised power rating for these. Originally they were "1000W motors" and now they're "1500W motors" so as not to seem less powerful than the "1200W" planetary motor kits that were more recently marketed when Cyclone started selling the planetary motors with the more powerful external controllers. Nothing has changed. They are the same motor, and both use the same 36V/48V 900W/1200W external controller.
These controllers are conservatively rated and can actually produce peaks >2600W. The realistic power rating of these controllers largely depends on gearing reduction.
This is explained in further detail here; http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9637#p149374
There is a bit of history to Cyclone's marketing of the large diameter motors. At one point they realised these big motors were capable of handling more power than the Headline external controllers could provide so they made up kits utilising a Kelly 48V/150A peak controller instead of the factory intended external 36V/48V 900W/1200W Headline electric controllers. They marketed these for a short time as their "3000W" upgrade option. However they soon realised that the 40,000 electrical RPM limit of these hub-motor intended controllers limited these higher RPM 24 pole motors to 1666RPM maximum mechanincal RPM and so scrapped the idea because of the limited too-low powerband. Because of this, they no longer list these for sale on their website and now sell their double "1000W" kits as their flagship max power setup. No doubt the Headline External controllers have a higher electrical RPM able to utilise the full powerband of the motors for which they were designed for.
The 650W specs and dynometer chart listed on the Cyclone website are for a motor they used to sell that was based on a cut down/shorter barrel version of the "1500W" large diameter non-planetary equipped motors. They used to have a picture of them on their website when they sold these, but were dropped as they are inferior to the long barrelled planetary gearbox equipped motors with an external controller. They were heavier, bulkier and needed similar speed reduction for bottom bracket driven setups which was difficult without the convienience of an attached planetary gearbox. Not easy for Cyclone to implement with chain and sprockets alone.
This is the only picture i could find of what they looked like, its the one on the left (notice the mounting tabs that dont exist on the "1500W" motors).
Hope this helps people understand the scattered Cyclone website a little better. They don't remove old information very often/effectively and this together with the ambiguity of much of their information leads to a lot of customer confusion. (it took a long while to get my head around it).
rhitee05
10 kW
Lots of good info. I didn't realize there were two different motor case lengths - although that makes sense. Another minor difference I noticed (the hard way) is that they seem to switch the direction of rotation between the 360/500W motors and the 650W+ ones. The standard cyclone installation behind the BB requires counter-clockwise motor rotation. When I got my 650W motor, I noticed that it rotates clockwise, which would be correct for the 3-chainwheel-type installation driving the BB with a second chain.
As far as the controller goes, it's nice they put better FETs in the 900/1200W controller. The ones in the 650/720W controller seem fairly decent, but as you pointed out the lower Rdson will make for slightly better efficiency and cooler operation. I'll probably put the TO-247 version of the IRFP4110's in mine eventually, which would make it good to 100V if I also upgraded the caps. Anyone know how much power the planetary gearbox can take before it destroys itself?
You could easily approach the lower end of the RC power spectrum and put >2 kW into that motor with a slightly upgraded controller.
As far as the controller goes, it's nice they put better FETs in the 900/1200W controller. The ones in the 650/720W controller seem fairly decent, but as you pointed out the lower Rdson will make for slightly better efficiency and cooler operation. I'll probably put the TO-247 version of the IRFP4110's in mine eventually, which would make it good to 100V if I also upgraded the caps. Anyone know how much power the planetary gearbox can take before it destroys itself?
You could easily approach the lower end of the RC power spectrum and put >2 kW into that motor with a slightly upgraded controller.
gunthn
100 W
BTW
If one was to burn a 500w controller and wish to convert to external, it is possible. I did it with glue and sight line alignment. Reliability is another matter.
If one was to burn a 500w controller and wish to convert to external, it is possible. I did it with glue and sight line alignment. Reliability is another matter.
gunthn
100 W
boostjuice, fantastic post, and just what potential Cyclone buyers needed!
I'm embarrassed to ask, but...concerning clockwise and counter-clockwise rotation (CW/CCW). If I'm holding a portable drill in my hand and the drill-bit (motor shaft) is pointing away from me, from the drill-holders perspective the bit is turning CW when I'm drilling a hole. Is this how Cyclone motors are described?
I'm embarrassed to ask, but...concerning clockwise and counter-clockwise rotation (CW/CCW). If I'm holding a portable drill in my hand and the drill-bit (motor shaft) is pointing away from me, from the drill-holders perspective the bit is turning CW when I'm drilling a hole. Is this how Cyclone motors are described?
boostjuice,
Great info. This kind of info was what I was hoping would come out when I started this TOPIC. Like you I found a lot of problems with the info on cyclones pages. But with the info from forum mebers I feel alot more confident that the cyclone setup will work for me.
Now its down to a waiting game while I gather the peices.
I did not see a pricelist on either page. Does anyone have one or know where to get one?
KAZUALT
Great info. This kind of info was what I was hoping would come out when I started this TOPIC. Like you I found a lot of problems with the info on cyclones pages. But with the info from forum mebers I feel alot more confident that the cyclone setup will work for me.
Now its down to a waiting game while I gather the peices.
I did not see a pricelist on either page. Does anyone have one or know where to get one?
KAZUALT
rhitee05
10 kW
spinningmags,
Sorry, I should've been more specific. The rotations I gave are looking into the motor with the shaft facing you. So, it would be the opposite if you looked at the rotation with the shaft facing away, as with a drill.
KAZUALT,
On the cyclone-tw.com website, they have an order on-line link at the top of the page. It's a real mess, but if you scroll way down past the pictures and descriptions they have a pricelist towards the bottom with paypal links to buy.
Eric
Sorry, I should've been more specific. The rotations I gave are looking into the motor with the shaft facing you. So, it would be the opposite if you looked at the rotation with the shaft facing away, as with a drill.
KAZUALT,
On the cyclone-tw.com website, they have an order on-line link at the top of the page. It's a real mess, but if you scroll way down past the pictures and descriptions they have a pricelist towards the bottom with paypal links to buy.
Eric
No apology neccesary, rhitee05.
The British and US commands were arguing once, over an issue during WW-II. One side said the issue MUST be "tabled" at this time, and the other side vehemently insisted that the issue must NOT be "tabled".
After a while they realized that they both meant the same thing. One side meant that the isssue must be "brought to the table" for immediate discussion, and the other side meant that the issue should be discussed immediately, instead of being set down on the table (for later discussion).
Kinda like when my wife asks "What do you thnk of this outfit on me"?...and I say "That dress is really something"
The British and US commands were arguing once, over an issue during WW-II. One side said the issue MUST be "tabled" at this time, and the other side vehemently insisted that the issue must NOT be "tabled".
After a while they realized that they both meant the same thing. One side meant that the isssue must be "brought to the table" for immediate discussion, and the other side meant that the issue should be discussed immediately, instead of being set down on the table (for later discussion).
Kinda like when my wife asks "What do you thnk of this outfit on me"?...and I say "That dress is really something"
rhitee05
10 kW
LOL. 
jmygann
100 kW
- Joined
- May 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,069
has anyone used this motor ?
* Max speed 3223Rpm
* Rated speed 4111Rpm
* Rated output 1500W
* Max output 4329W
* Rated Torque 83.46Kg-cm
* Max Torque 98.36Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 29.52A, 75A
* Insulation class E class
* External Driver
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 93.23%
* weight 4.8 Kg
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/dc24.htm
* Max speed 3223Rpm
* Rated speed 4111Rpm
* Rated output 1500W
* Max output 4329W
* Rated Torque 83.46Kg-cm
* Max Torque 98.36Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 29.52A, 75A
* Insulation class E class
* External Driver
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 93.23%
* weight 4.8 Kg
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/dc24.htm
boostjuice
10 kW
Yes, I have this motor on my bike. Although it's substantial power-wise, I can't recommend using it on upright bicycles utilizing a cyclone style kit install. The motor barrel length is just too long to fit ergonomically between the necessarily widened crank arms. If you do plenty of pedalling this is annoying, giving you sore hip joints from the widened leg stance. On your recumbent though......out of the way mounting should be much easier……
Oh, the 93.23% efficiency quoted in text is BS. The dynometer chart suggests a maximum efficiency of about 87% but the best comprimise motor speed is about 2200RPM in which case the motor would seem to be about 80% efficient.
Oh, the 93.23% efficiency quoted in text is BS. The dynometer chart suggests a maximum efficiency of about 87% but the best comprimise motor speed is about 2200RPM in which case the motor would seem to be about 80% efficient.
rhitee05,
Thanks for the info. But I stated the question wrong. Lets try this again. What I am looking for is a price just for the motor. Unless I am blind all I see are one with freewheel kits. Guess it doesn't matter much since I need two freewheels anyway. I got a little extra luck today and got a nice bonus so I am getting the motor first. It will definately be the 650watt. What cyclone controller do you all recomend for this motor?
KAZUALT
PS
Went back to the site and I found it boy are these motors cheap
"650~1200W geared motor 14T freewheel without controller" 155USD
Now add one more freewheel and I am in business.
I really want to thank all of you for being patient with this newbe!!!
Thanks for the info. But I stated the question wrong. Lets try this again. What I am looking for is a price just for the motor. Unless I am blind all I see are one with freewheel kits. Guess it doesn't matter much since I need two freewheels anyway. I got a little extra luck today and got a nice bonus so I am getting the motor first. It will definately be the 650watt. What cyclone controller do you all recomend for this motor?
KAZUALT
PS
Went back to the site and I found it boy are these motors cheap
"650~1200W geared motor 14T freewheel without controller" 155USD
Now add one more freewheel and I am in business.
I really want to thank all of you for being patient with this newbe!!!
kentlim26
Yeah I am going to use the 36v controller. From what I understand to use a kelly on a cyclone requires a little more problems that I would rather not deal with. If I am wrong let me know. I want to set this up once with the right equipment. I know that I will have some problems, I just want to keep them to a minimum. I just got done emailing them with my wishlist to get their current price.
650watt motor & mounting bracket
2 freewheels (gonna do split chain)
36v external controller & throttle
From the info I get from the site it will be $455 shipped to Pittsburgh
THey also have the 720watt for the same price, but requires far more battery power than I want to pay for.
I am going to buy the batteries elsewhere. Right now I have a SLA that should do the job for a bit. According to the website it will run on 24v 20 amp battery.
THey do have a kit that is for trikes, but in the photo it shows a derailer that hangs down way to low. I need to keep things tucked up in the frame as much as possible.
KAZUALT
Yeah I am going to use the 36v controller. From what I understand to use a kelly on a cyclone requires a little more problems that I would rather not deal with. If I am wrong let me know. I want to set this up once with the right equipment. I know that I will have some problems, I just want to keep them to a minimum. I just got done emailing them with my wishlist to get their current price.
650watt motor & mounting bracket
2 freewheels (gonna do split chain)
36v external controller & throttle
From the info I get from the site it will be $455 shipped to Pittsburgh
THey also have the 720watt for the same price, but requires far more battery power than I want to pay for.
I am going to buy the batteries elsewhere. Right now I have a SLA that should do the job for a bit. According to the website it will run on 24v 20 amp battery.
THey do have a kit that is for trikes, but in the photo it shows a derailer that hangs down way to low. I need to keep things tucked up in the frame as much as possible.
KAZUALT
hi KAZUALTKAZUALT,
when you order the 36volt controller, you need to re-confirm with him Paco. i fear he might give you the 24v one. the 36v controller there is a sticker paste as 36v controller. if can,,,, i won't order the half twist throttle from him. it cannot match your riding Fun. the half twist throttle makes my hand numb! get a thumb twist Or full twist throttle. the feeling is 100% different.
best regards
kentlim
when you order the 36volt controller, you need to re-confirm with him Paco. i fear he might give you the 24v one. the 36v controller there is a sticker paste as 36v controller. if can,,,, i won't order the half twist throttle from him. it cannot match your riding Fun. the half twist throttle makes my hand numb! get a thumb twist Or full twist throttle. the feeling is 100% different.
best regards
kentlim
Just got the price quote for
650Watt Motor
2 16t Freewheels
36v External Controller
Throttle
Tool Kit
$400 shipped.
Now thats a really good price. With the setup being so cheap I can definately afford a bigger battery. Hopefully if all goes right I will order next friday and then play the waiting game
KAZUALT
650Watt Motor
2 16t Freewheels
36v External Controller
Throttle
Tool Kit
$400 shipped.
Now thats a really good price. With the setup being so cheap I can definately afford a bigger battery. Hopefully if all goes right I will order next friday and then play the waiting game
KAZUALT
1000w
1 kW
Boostjuice, I read your post about the Kelly controller, that Cyclone offered, limiting the RPM of the 1000w motor.
I run one of these motors with the standard Cyclone controller in my cruiser and am really happy with it.
I was considering ordering another 1000w motor and amping it up to get the 3000w for an offroad bike.
My questions are;
1) Does the standard 1000w controller have areas that can be beefed up for more "short term" amp handling. I have read your other posts about these controllers and recall that the body of the controller gets flooded with heat fairly quickly.
2) Is there a Kelly or other brushless controller that can be used to supply 100amps to this motor.
Thanks heaps for all your other great info.
Cheers,
Matt.
I run one of these motors with the standard Cyclone controller in my cruiser and am really happy with it.
I was considering ordering another 1000w motor and amping it up to get the 3000w for an offroad bike.
My questions are;
1) Does the standard 1000w controller have areas that can be beefed up for more "short term" amp handling. I have read your other posts about these controllers and recall that the body of the controller gets flooded with heat fairly quickly.
2) Is there a Kelly or other brushless controller that can be used to supply 100amps to this motor.
Thanks heaps for all your other great info.
Cheers,
Matt.