This is a long post, but it gives important background knowledge for anyone considering Cyclone kits/components.
The specifications on the Cyclone website are confusing, patchy, unorganised and some cases a blatant lie (efficiency in particular. Some dynometer graphs show much lower efficiencies than claimed in text).
Here's my attempt to clear things up a bit from what i have learnt in my web wanderings and communication with the company.
Firstly, there are
two size classes within the planetary motor selection, but the larger of the two sizes are manufactured in both internal and external controller configurations. I am in agreement with others that the internal controller models should be avoided by anyone looking for a setup that doesn't need to conform to 200W limit regulations. The fact that the motor and controller are thermally coupled is a recepe for unreliability.
These motors are manufactured by Headline electric Taiwan and resold by Cyclone with the kit components.
http://www.headline-motor.com/bldc-scooter-driving-motors.php
The motor options go like this;
- Short barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox with 24V rated 200W(250W really) > 360W internal motor controller
- Long barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox with 24V rated 500W internal controller
- Long barrelled motor with 9.33:1 planetary gearbox wired for use with 36V/48V rated 650W>1200W external controllers
Headline Electric External Controllers
Electrically (Excluding the rescaled LED 'fuel guage' indicator levels programmed into the MCU), there are only two types of external controller also manufactured by Headline Electric Taiwan and resold by Cyclone. Although the Cyclone website would seem to suggest there are four versions, the two upper and lower spec models contain the same power electronics despite having different voltage rating labels stuck to the casings.
The 36V 900W/48V 1200W controllers are the same and have 75V rated Fets (IRFP2907 - RDSon = 3.6mOhm) and 100V rated capacitors so max voltage = 75V
The 24V 650W/36V 720W controllers are the same and have 60V rated Fets (IRFP064V - RDSon = 5.5mOhm) and 50V rated capacitors so max voltage = 50V
It is my strong suggestion that anyone buying these motors/controllers/kits should opt for the larger 650W>1200W version with a 36V/48V external controller. Regardless of the intended voltage that the motor is run at, reliability and upgradability increase and the price difference between the 24V/36V and 36V/48V external controllers/kits is trivial. The 36V/48V 900/1200W version is electrically rated to as high as 75V by its internal components, but the RDSon of it's mosfets is lower than those within the 24V/36V 650W/720W external controller. This results in greater efficiency and less heat build up at any driven voltage and current between 24V>75V.
Moving on now to the large diameter "1000W/1500W/3000W" motor with no planetary gearbox like these;
Cyclone can't seem to ever settle on an advertised power rating for these. Originally they were "1000W motors" and now they're "1500W motors" so as not to seem less powerful than the "1200W" planetary motor kits that were more recently marketed when Cyclone started selling the planetary motors with the more powerful external controllers. Nothing has changed. They are the same motor, and both use the same 36V/48V 900W/1200W external controller.
These controllers are conservatively rated and can actually produce peaks >2600W. The realistic power rating of these controllers largely depends on gearing reduction.
This is explained in further detail here;
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9637#p149374
There is a bit of history to Cyclone's marketing of the large diameter motors. At one point they realised these big motors were capable of handling more power than the Headline external controllers could provide so they made up kits utilising a Kelly 48V/150A peak controller instead of the factory intended external 36V/48V 900W/1200W Headline electric controllers. They marketed these for a short time as their "3000W" upgrade option. However they soon realised that the 40,000 electrical RPM limit of these hub-motor intended controllers limited these higher RPM 24 pole motors to 1666RPM maximum mechanincal RPM and so scrapped the idea because of the limited too-low powerband. Because of this, they no longer list these for sale on their website and now sell their double "1000W" kits as their flagship max power setup. No doubt the Headline External controllers have a higher electrical RPM able to utilise the full powerband of the motors for which they were designed for.
The 650W specs and dynometer chart listed on the Cyclone website are for a motor they used to sell that was based on a cut down/shorter barrel version of the "1500W" large diameter non-planetary equipped motors. They used to have a picture of them on their website when they sold these, but were dropped as they are inferior to the long barrelled planetary gearbox equipped motors with an external controller. They were heavier, bulkier and needed similar speed reduction for bottom bracket driven setups which was difficult without the convienience of an attached planetary gearbox. Not easy for Cyclone to implement with chain and sprockets alone.
This is the only picture i could find of what they looked like, its the one on the left (notice the mounting tabs that dont exist on the "1500W" motors).
Hope this helps people understand the scattered Cyclone website a little better. They don't remove old information very often/effectively and this together with the ambiguity of much of their information leads to a lot of customer confusion. (it took a long while to get my head around it).