Cyclone Owners - post your reviews/comments/tips here

[ElementX]

I have several ebike kits, but due to time constraints haven't gotten around to using them all. I guess I got carrried away with the motorized bike thing many months ago, then got sidetracked with other things. The main kit that I've been playing around with is the 24v 350w internally controlled motor that I got from arizonaebikes. I've got a bigger one for another bike project, but currently my 24v.350w kit has been great fun.

I have it mounted on a classic Dahon "20 folding bike that came with 5 gears (freewheel). I dumped the ancient gears and twist shifter in favor of of a less ancient 6spd IRD freewheel and Shimano Tourney speed shifter. I love just having a button for upshifting. I have it mounted on the left of my handlebars so that the shifter is actually upside down. Its easy as pie to reach with my thumb in that location.

I had a custom rear whel put together. The reason why I am running an ancient freewheel hub is because its a "special" hub. I have a Staton chain drive kit that will be going on this baby at some point this year (hopefully). The left side of the hub is threaded (lefthand threads) to screw on another freewheel sprocket so that you can run a gas motor via chain (left drive). The hub uses 4 sealed bearings that allow the hub to spin smooth as glass. The IRD freewheel spins amazingly smooth too. I got black spokes and a polished Hazard Lite 20x2.0 wheel. Oh, and its 48 spoke so its super strong...way stronger than this bike is. It'll all move to a new home when I find the perfect bike that can handle some jumps, tricks and provide fairly decent comfort for long distance riding.

Back to the cyclone...I have one 1 chainwheel kit so its mounted in usual fashion under the BB. This dahon is probably 20 yrs old, so it isn't the most comfortable bike to ride, especially over 10mph. It has a short wheelbase, and when combined with the rake of the extremely short front fork (almost vertical like a bmx), my bike rides very twitchy unless I stand on the pedals so that my legs absorb the bumps. On open paved roads, its really fun to ride. On sidewalks with a lot of driveways, or bumpy roads, the short wheelbase really stands out. Even without pedaling, I get a decent workout just trying to absorb the road with my arms and legs.

I think the 350w motor is perfect for the urban areas. With the use of your gears, climbing hills doesn't seem to be a problem. My max speed (based on gps) is 18mph on the flats. I haven't tried to do a distance test, but I've managed to go 15 miles on my Ping 15ah batteries little to no pedaling before recharging. In areas where I have to ride on the sidewalk (narrow roads, no bike lane/deathwish to ride on road with traffic), I'm glad I can't go faster than 18mph on this little bike.

The motor weighs about half of whatever my hub motors weigh and feels much more balanced attached to my bike as it is bolted to the center bottom of the frame. This makes it so much easier to lift/carry the bike when necessary. My hub motor bike sucks to carry because one end is twice as heavy as the other!! The motor placement is also stealthy since its mounted so low to the ground and I don't have an external controller mounted.

I shift at full throttle ALL the time. Riding a hub motor bike is boring compared to a cyclone with gears. I'm only assuming that my low watt cyclone isn't going to rip my chain apart, but we'll see how that goes. One other thing...the cyclone motor is probably 3 times as loud as a hub motor. Don't let that scare you if you've never heard either type of motor running. The cyclone sounds like a golf cart. It makes enough noise so that people will hear you coming when you're within 10 meters, but I wouldn't really say its loud. I think it comes down to whether you would find the noise "annoying" or not. I personally prefer the extra noise as it helps people know I'm coming. If I don't want people to know I'm on an ebike, I just let off the throttle and pedal.

I'm not even done with building this bike, but I'm already thinking about the next project. I want a seriously heavy duty bike with front suspension. Something with the frame of a trials bike, but with gears and mounting points for a rear cargo rack (not for a rack, but for my gas motor).

 

[ElementX]

In my rambling, I forgot to mention the problems I've had so far. They're minor issues really, but here it goes:

1) the plastic pully included in the kit is weak like a plastic bottle cap. My chain wore a groove into it after about 20 miles. It needs to be replaced witha bearring and I plan on doing the skateboard wheel/bearring upgrade when I find time.
2) I've noticed that even with this 350w motor mounted on a stainless steel frame, the motor still suffers from some slight twisting. Maybe this is a result of my full-throttle shifting. However, I'm wondering if the twisting issue we cyclone owners experience is a result of pushing your bike backwards. Another thing I've noticed is that If I try to push my bike backwards, the motor fights you as there is resistance, and it is somewhat notchy resistance. Anyone else notice this issue?

 

[SolarTriker]

Allright! I've spent ages prowling around while I wait for my Trike to show up!! After much research I am going to attempt to do a Greenspeed GT3 setup with a detuned 650W cyclone into a 500W setup at 24V with their double freewheel system. I figure I've just got to try it out and see what happens! Paco is the guy to email now I guess...

Will order cyclone as soon as soon as I get some mullah!

 

[rhitee05]

From reading around here, most other Cyclone owners find the stock mounting system somewhat lacking. People have come up with a variety of solutions to brace the motor against the seat tube or improve the clamping force. If you do some searching you should find more info on this. Other people ditch the stock mounting and start from scratch with a custom solution.

The notching resistance you're referring to is the motor cogging resistance. That's caused by the attraction between the magnets and the stator coils even when unpowered. The motor has a freewheel to let you pedal without this, but pushing the bike backwards is working against the freewheel (same reason your pedals freewheel going forward, but spin when the bike goes backwards). Nothing that can be done about this without an elaborate (and unnecessary) clutch mechanism to totally disconnect the motor when not powered.

 

[ElementX]

rhitee05, thanks for the info!


Today was a bummer of a day. I went to take a ride and my cyclone didn't work. I flipped the switch on the throttle and all I'm getting is a blinking red light. I think that usually means low voltage, but I'm measuring 26.6v at the batteries. Anyone run into this issue before?

 

[deardancer3]

rhitee05, thanks for the info!


Today was a bummer of a day. I went to take a ride and my cyclone didn't work. I flipped the switch on the throttle and all I'm getting is a blinking red light. I think that usually means low voltage, but I'm measuring 26.6v at the batteries. Anyone run into this issue before?

Its been a long time, but I think the blinking red lite was a throttle problem.

Make sure the throttle connector is good, and that nothing is preventing the throttle from returning to zero.

I also love my 35o w cyclone.

Be sure to seal with water proofing wher the wires enter the motor!

d

 

[deardancer3]

In my rambling, I forgot to mention the problems I've had so far. They're minor issues really, but here it goes:

1) the plastic pully included in the kit is weak like a plastic bottle cap. My chain wore a groove into it after about 20 miles. It needs to be replaced witha bearring and I plan on doing the skateboard wheel/bearring upgrade when I find time.
2) I've noticed that even with this 350w motor mounted on a stainless steel frame, the motor still suffers from some slight twisting. Maybe this is a result of my full-throttle shifting. However, I'm wondering if the twisting issue we cyclone owners experience is a result of pushing your bike backwards. Another thing I've noticed is that If I try to push my bike backwards, the motor fights you as there is resistance, and it is somewhat notchy resistance. Anyone else notice this issue?

#1 a combination of issues her, first the bolt that holds the pulley is only secured on one end and is liable to get bent from the power of the motor, then it is in a vulnerable low spot that can cause it to get bent by hanging so low. A spring loaded affair like shown on other installations would be nice. But your power shifting doesnt help things. check your pulley bolt for being bent by rotating the bolt- it will be obvious.

#2 not from rolling bike backwards. Try getting a torque wrench for getting the mounting bolts all equal. I had motor rotation until i did this.

D

 

[ElementX]

i'm afraid something is wrong with my motor. I tested my battery voltage at the clip-on connection and its showing a good 26.6v. I then tested the voltage on the other clip-on connection that goes to the motor, and oddly it registers 13.0v-13.1v??? I tried unplugging both brakes and the throttle and it still shows 13v at the motor connector. Can someone check theirs and tell me what they get?

 

[ElementX]

I haven't gotten around to sealing the wires at the motor with silicon yet, but I don't believe thats related to my problem currently. I'm in sunny southern California and I think its rained here twice in '09. Other than that, my main concerns with water have been little puddles at the end of driveways which I go around.

 

[ElementX]

I just pulled out the throttle from my 900w kit that is brand new, unused and plugged it into my bike and immediately got the flashing red light....so I'm ruling out the throttle for now. Man this bites.

 

[Kaño]

I got that flashing red light onces, and it was due to a poor connection at the battery lead. Check for pealed cables or poor connections.

 

[ElementX]

ok after fiddling with all the connections, I tried hooking up my SLA's and they are working with the cyclone! While that's great, this means that something must be wrong with my ping batteries

 

[gunthn]

I just pulled out the throttle from my 900w kit that is brand new, unused and plugged it into my bike and immediately got the flashing red light....so I'm ruling out the throttle for now. Man this bites.

Usually the flashing red light means overvoltage. Say if you use a 24/36 throttle in a 36/48. There are two different throttles. But I believe it will still work despite the light.

Just read the rest. Good luck and good luck but not with the ping.

 

[ElementX]

Thanks for all the help guys, its much appreciated!

I didnt know that they had 2 different throttles, but that explains the results i got from my testing earlier. When the throttle from my 900w kit didn't work with my ping batteries either, I pulled out the SLA's to test with. Hooked them up to my bike/360w cyclone kit and got a green light and throttle worked fine.

So then I was puzzled about the 900w kit's throttle not working, so I pulled out the entire kit and plugged it all together and teste with the SLA's and got nothing on the throttle until I added a 3rd battery to up it to 36v. Thats kind of a bummer because I had ordered it as a 24v/36v kit. I guess I have ended up with the wrong throttle with order, not to mention that both handlebar grips that were included had a lot of what looked like styrofoam peanuts melted into them (this in a box that was filled with bubblewrap...where the heck did you peanuts come from?)

Ok, so back to the ping batteries...I'll check all the wiring to make sure there's no bad strands or loose connectons. I can only assume there theres something in the wiring that is messed up between my batteries and diodes that is causing the voltage drop once the throttle's LED applies its massive load.

 

[dumbass]

Thanks for all the help guys, its much appreciated!

I didnt know that they had 2 different throttles, but that explains the results i got from my testing earlier. When the throttle from my 900w kit didn't work with my ping batteries either, I pulled out the SLA's to test with. Hooked them up to my bike/360w cyclone kit and got a green light and throttle worked fine.

So then I was puzzled about the 900w kit's throttle not working, so I pulled out the entire kit and plugged it all together and teste with the SLA's and got nothing on the throttle until I added a 3rd battery to up it to 36v. Thats kind of a bummer because I had ordered it as a 24v/36v kit. I guess I have ended up with the wrong throttle with order, not to mention that both handlebar grips that were included had a lot of what looked like styrofoam peanuts melted into them (this in a box that was filled with bubblewrap...where the heck did you peanuts come from?)

Ok, so back to the ping batteries...I'll check all the wiring to make sure there's no bad strands or loose connectons. I can only assume there theres something in the wiring that is messed up between my batteries and diodes that is causing the voltage drop once the throttle's LED applies its massive load.

I have been haveing the blinking red lite problem off and on for weeks. I ride with 2 packs, 1SLA 24v 18ah and 1lipo4 24v 20ah. I run the lipo4 and use the SLA only as a back up should I ride to far. There are times when the system has no problem and time what I can't leave the house. And times when it just stops while riding. I have tried changing out the packs and I get the same result. I have checked the wiring twice and found nothing wrong. But I noticed on my last ride that I was using 1ah per mile when I normally would use only 1/2ah per mile. After 6 miles the blinking lite started and the motor was dead so I headed home. After about 2 more miles the green lite came back on and the motor ran for 3/4 mile and quit again. I haven't had time to check since and because I can't fine any reason I now have a trust problem with the system. Maybe later this week I will try to fine the problem and try another ride. The bad thing is that it just comes and goes and I can never find a reason.

 

[ElementX]

I may as well throw in this comparison review of my 6 mile ride with the SLA's today. I used two 12v10ah SLA's wired in series and they top out at 15mph at full throttle vs the 18mph with the lifepo4's. I rode mostly at half to 3/4th's throttle most of the time. No hills and driveway type inclines here and there; I'd say 90% of the trip was flat land. Lots of slowing down, but i pedal-assisted on acceleration most of the time because torque was much weaker.


The motor started cutting out at 5 miles so I had to continue to drop lower in the gears and only use the motor to help maintain my some speed. At the 5.5 mile mark, the SLA's were pretty much dead and I was thrust back into the stone age.

I'll say Ping's lifepo4's have spoiled me, even at 350w Is there such a thing as a battery snob? I still need to check my wiring on those batteries.

 

[gunthn]

There is one solution to the throtprob. Just use a generic one. Ypedal has a diagram for this and it is easy. The cyc units are fluky and if they are wet cause no end of aggravation. Dumbass: Sounds like moisture on the controller. This usually is the intermittent problem. Moisture here = problem gone = no problem. Or a bad connection on the throttle wires. Also on lfpos the bms can cause problems. If they are cutting out or limiting voltage they will trip a bl. red. Check your pack vltg as soon as the prob emerges. Heat can also cause issues. A hot motor will give a blred. A defective or loose thermistor in the motor can cause issues though not exclusively the red one.

On Packing:

not to mention that both handlebar grips that were included had a lot of what looked like styrofoam peanuts melted into them (this in a box that was filled with bubblewrap...where the heck did you peanuts come from?

Three things you don't want to see being made. Laws, Sausages and packing peanuts or maybe packing at cyclone
one of the following - Sausage being made or packing peanuts being sausaged or packing at cyclone (btw they always packed mine well!_)

 

[heathyoung]

You can run a standard hall thottle on these, and bypass the LVC (which appears to be built into the throttle - it runs a microcontroller(!) that sets all of this).

 

[deardancer3]

Here are the electrical problem I have had with my Cyclone 360 over three years:

Sealed area where wires entered motor after getting stranded in rainstorm- dried motor out first.

Twice had to re-seat the big power molex connectors where the battery connects with the motor.

Throttle had an operator problem where something prevented the throttle from returning to zero; this prevents motor from working without a power down.

Throttle switch went intermittent, then flat bad, causing lots of frustration for about a month.

Sometimes turning the throttle gives no motor power, just a red light. This happens after not using power for several minutes. Now i just goose the throttle about once a minute. Have to do this anyway to prevent auto-power off.

Mechanically it took two months to get the motor perfectly shimmed and tightened down for no movement. Been good for years now. I also had Shimano rear freewheels modified for use on the front crankset, cyclone-usa Jim Olson.

The 13ah NIMH battery that Cyclone sent me was real good until recently. However, the thermistor glue came loose from the cell it was glued to, causing delayed temperature sensing during charging, which cooked the pack. While I did get three good years out of the pack, My Giant NIMH packs are still going strong after 5 years. The cyclone NIMH pack when brand new, would not allow full power use of the 360 motor like my new Lith pack does.

d

 

[dumbass]

Dumbass: Sounds like moisture on the controller. This usually is the intermittent problem. Moisture here = problem gone = no problem. Or a bad connection on the throttle wires. Also on lfpos the bms can cause problems. If they are cutting out or limiting voltage they will trip a bl. red. Check your pack vltg as soon as the prob emerges. Heat can also cause issues. A hot motor will give a blred. A defective or loose thermistor in the motor can cause issues though not exclusively the red one.

gunthn.........Thanks for the input and yes I would agree with you on the moisture except the first time it happened it hadn't been ridden for several weeks and was stored in my garage. At the time I checked all my wiring and found no problem. But when I was finished everything worked fine again and I took it for a 15 mile ride with no problem. Again I would agree the BMS can cause a problem simular to mine but I don't use a BMS on my lipo4 packs. I charge them with a 24v SLA charger to 28v (3.5v per cell) and they are all within .12v (low of 3.51 and high of 3.63) and when riding they level out exactly within a half mile.

What really gets me is the amount of AHs I was burning per mile. It was twice my norm on the same bike path. My wife and I both have 2 ebikes so for now this one is going to wait till winter to be repaired. Bad thing is I won't be able to check the repairs till next summer unless I find a stand and test it that way.

 

[ElementX]

I checked all my wiring and don't see any burnt ones. Nothing looks burnt on the BMS as far as I can tell. Both batteries in series still show 26.6v at the battery end of the cyclone motor connector. Once I plug it into the cyclone motor, voltage reads 13v at the connector.

Anyone got any ideas on this one? Is this what happens if a BMS trips open? I haven't tried to charge the batteries yet.

 

[ElementX]

I believe I have a problem with one of my batteries Hopefully Ping can help me figure out what's wrong with them. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=14035

 

[gunthn]

I am guessing that you have about 4 bad cells. You may have drawn them down too much which would cause them to show a full charge and then when under load drop way off. I have personal experience but still I am guessing. Put a load on each cell in each battery and then test voltage. Go directly to the leads on the cell with nothing in between. The suggestion of the light bulb is good but one that will light under 3+ volts. You could also just plug it into the motor and let it draw voltage into the caps and then test each cell. You should be able to find the bad ones.

Good luck.

 

[morph999]

I may as well throw in this comparison review of my 6 mile ride with the SLA's today. I used two 12v10ah SLA's wired in series and they top out at 15mph at full throttle vs the 18mph with the lifepo4's. I rode mostly at half to 3/4th's throttle most of the time. No hills and driveway type inclines here and there; I'd say 90% of the trip was flat land. Lots of slowing down, but i pedal-assisted on acceleration most of the time because torque was much weaker.


The motor started cutting out at 5 miles so I had to continue to drop lower in the gears and only use the motor to help maintain my some speed. At the 5.5 mile mark, the SLA's were pretty much dead and I was thrust back into the stone age.

I'll say Ping's lifepo4's have spoiled me, even at 350w Is there such a thing as a battery snob? I still need to check my wiring on those batteries.

yep, that sounds about right. I use a 60v 9ah SLA config and it's dead after 6 miles.

 

[graemebc]

Well I have had my 1st decent ride to and from the gym today on my 720 watt 3 chain with 35/10 ah pack. 10k all up. It took me 12 to 15 mins to cover the homeward 5km journey. A few gentle hills nothing too taxing, I never properly timed it I'm afraid.
I'm still not sure how to ride this properly, Do I get into a decent high gear so I can still peddle assist and use as little amount of throttle as possible or choose a lower gear and use more throttle to keep the motor happy. I guess trial and error will tell. If I get on it in a high gear & peddle to help, the motor gets super hot, and If I drop a few gears, peddling is a no go! I would like to assist If I can though.

After getting the chain as straight as I could with a spacer, I still notice a kind of thrumming not a constant whirring. The noise is not to bad really at all though very much NOT stealth. I'm guessing the pulsing is the chain slack though It's as tight as I dare and the tension gear is working as it should. (I think)

All in all I'm really happy with it except for a couple of issue's with the wobble in the front crank which at 3 mm I think to much. The battery charger is doing odd things too. After finally noticing the sticker on the back after asking about the charge cycle in another post (doh! )
It is not flashing green regularly. It's very irregular, and after leaving the pack on charge for 8 hours was showing no green, just solid red. This is the PSI pack which is supposed to be better quality, I know zip about batteries yet! So I will pull the pack apart and check the cells to see what they are doing, and get a friend who is a sparky to check the bms. Don't know what to do about this odd charger behaviour yet.
Will probably email cyclone and get an opinion.

Cheers