999zip999
100 TW
1p 25amp discharge ? The limits ?
Echo Tools 58V 4ah Batteries
- Thread starter magudaman
- Start date
okashira
10 kW
anyone tried the ego tools?
I wonder if I need the BMS to run them. Or can I just hook up a 14s battery to the terminals and it will work
Ill but a dead battery if not and put in Model S cells
The blowers are super cheap on ebay, can finally get rid of my last gas tool
I wonder if I need the BMS to run them. Or can I just hook up a 14s battery to the terminals and it will work
Ill but a dead battery if not and put in Model S cells
The blowers are super cheap on ebay, can finally get rid of my last gas tool
Alan B
100 GW
Nice battery options for small ebikes, and interoperable with yardwork power tools, excellent!
Ykick
1 GW
I received the Echo 58V 4Ah battery and charger. Haven’t done teardown the OP performed. Need those special Torx bits with the hollow shafts.
But I can 99% confirm there’s no power shutoff through the BMS. Be aware you can likely drain this battery to harmful over discharge levels. Any LVC must be performed and handled by motor controller.
It would appear the BMS is mostly for charge protection and balancing. The charger has a fan and delivers a pretty good rate. It’s big and I would believe the 5A output specification. Obviously, the pack can be recharged "naked" through the power output terminals with a more generic charger. Someday maybe figure out how to hack the charge BMS?
I pulled 3.85Ah from this pack on it’s initial 58.3V charge before it dropped down to 35V (2.5V/cell) and I disconnected the load. It recharged fine and shows 58.5V now so perhaps the deep cycle has allowed it to balance a bit more and slight gain in capacity? I’ll keep track of the next discharge capacity run…
I’ve only used it for one cycle so far but it seems to be a good lightweight, short range battery pack for 52V BBS02. The 52V Bafang battery gauge and LVC appears to be a pretty good match to the 58V Echo tool pack.
Next project with it is to see what mounts can be sourced and adapted to bike frame? Not sure it’ll be worth the trouble but if the 5yr consumer warranty is workable, ‘could be?
It would appear the outdoor power tool market is perhaps matching up with eBike needs? Should certainly keep an eye on this emerging potential source of high rate battery packs.
But I can 99% confirm there’s no power shutoff through the BMS. Be aware you can likely drain this battery to harmful over discharge levels. Any LVC must be performed and handled by motor controller.
It would appear the BMS is mostly for charge protection and balancing. The charger has a fan and delivers a pretty good rate. It’s big and I would believe the 5A output specification. Obviously, the pack can be recharged "naked" through the power output terminals with a more generic charger. Someday maybe figure out how to hack the charge BMS?
I pulled 3.85Ah from this pack on it’s initial 58.3V charge before it dropped down to 35V (2.5V/cell) and I disconnected the load. It recharged fine and shows 58.5V now so perhaps the deep cycle has allowed it to balance a bit more and slight gain in capacity? I’ll keep track of the next discharge capacity run…
I’ve only used it for one cycle so far but it seems to be a good lightweight, short range battery pack for 52V BBS02. The 52V Bafang battery gauge and LVC appears to be a pretty good match to the 58V Echo tool pack.
Next project with it is to see what mounts can be sourced and adapted to bike frame? Not sure it’ll be worth the trouble but if the 5yr consumer warranty is workable, ‘could be?
It would appear the outdoor power tool market is perhaps matching up with eBike needs? Should certainly keep an eye on this emerging potential source of high rate battery packs.
wineboyrider
1 MW
Greenworks has a 80v 4ah battery now. 8)
999zip999
100 TW
Price
Ykick
1 GW
999zip999 said:
Don't overexert yourself Zip. What price do you want? Greenworks? I dunno. Echo? $170 w/charger for recon 4Ah. New packs only on eBay from $100-$120. Home Depot w/5 year warranty $170.
wineboyrider
1 MW
$300 bucks for 80v 4ah battery on Amazon.
999zip999
100 TW
Thanks winnerboy. Al this means is voltage is going up and prices will drop. 80v off the shelf. Wow ! Ykick thanks for price list comparisons.
maydaverave
10 kW
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 542
It doesn't have a lvc? Wow my friend put about 300 cycles on his many of which were a complete dod. I wonder how many cycles with an lvc and not at twenty amps?
Ykick
1 GW
mman1506 said:
Alan B
100 GW
mman, your pictures are not resolving, and they borders look too big. Perhaps you can reformat them to a more standard and smaller size so we can see them.
Ykick
1 GW
I'll do it...
That would be useful but I was hoping for mounting bracket. All I've done so far is to stuff inside a bag but I would love to use the integrated mounting system without buying a tool in order to scavenging mating surface.
That would be useful but I was hoping for mounting bracket. All I've done so far is to stuff inside a bag but I would love to use the integrated mounting system without buying a tool in order to scavenging mating surface.
Alan B
100 GW
Nice job!
How does it work on the bike?
How does it work on the bike?
Alan B said:
Thanks for the heads up, I was using google photos, I thought I had done the incognito mode test but I guess not.
Alan B said:
They work great. I use them on my electric dirt scooter build. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=80918&p=1192718#p119271
I just throw the batteries in my backpack and go. Even though the terminals aren't full width they have no problem carrying the current.
I did manage to hit some sort of over temp limit once on the BMS and the charger refused to charge them until I left the batteries in the fridge for a while. Otherwise the batteries have been excellent and waay higher discharge than the konions I used on my ebike.
I might design a full "power tool" mount at some point. It took me 5 revisions before I was happy with the connector design and I didn't want to consume all the extra material needed for the full mount.
Alan B
100 GW
I use Google Photos, works fine, just put the pic in a shared album, then go there and get a link to the pic. Then adjust the width and height values in the link down to keep it under 800.
Does anyone have any confirmation that the charger and the battery communicate with a data connection? The pins are labeled T1 and T2 and the only "smart" functionality seems to be a temperature cutoff. I'd bet they both just connect to thermoresistors at the cells. I've seen other power tool batteries with similar configurations. I would test it myself but I don't have a multimeter.
nutnspecial
10 MW
Cool connectors mman1506, I might go get those files!
Waiting on the 4ah w/ charger. From ebay, new- pulled from a kit. $75
The recon ones are down to 130.
So if I got the jist so far, the 4ah is pretty happy with up to 25a (std 1kw kit) discharges?
This will be perfect to get my neighbor started w/first ebike on the cheap . . . except there's no bms cutoff which is surprising. The 1kw controller cutoff will destroy the cells @ 31v hard limit, so any new user will def get a taste of true diy ebiking (trying to keep your batteries alive :| )
Awesome deal though. With the 1hr charger, you can easily also obtain two new 4ah packs for under 200$. That's the cheapest complete battery system for 4, 8, or 12ah I've heard of. Downside is maybe bulky/heavy as you start paralleling them.
5yr Warranty is extra $. If it were for me I would get at least one with warranty, def the 5yr. With regular bike use I don't think they'll live that long. They're designed to be used weekly, not daily. And isn't it interesting they'd even have a warranty like that when any Joe can overdischarge these things to death???
Waiting on the 4ah w/ charger. From ebay, new- pulled from a kit. $75
The recon ones are down to 130.
So if I got the jist so far, the 4ah is pretty happy with up to 25a (std 1kw kit) discharges?
This will be perfect to get my neighbor started w/first ebike on the cheap . . . except there's no bms cutoff which is surprising. The 1kw controller cutoff will destroy the cells @ 31v hard limit, so any new user will def get a taste of true diy ebiking (trying to keep your batteries alive :| )
Awesome deal though. With the 1hr charger, you can easily also obtain two new 4ah packs for under 200$. That's the cheapest complete battery system for 4, 8, or 12ah I've heard of. Downside is maybe bulky/heavy as you start paralleling them.
5yr Warranty is extra $. If it were for me I would get at least one with warranty, def the 5yr. With regular bike use I don't think they'll live that long. They're designed to be used weekly, not daily. And isn't it interesting they'd even have a warranty like that when any Joe can overdischarge these things to death???
nutnspecial
10 MW
I recieved my 'used like new' 4ah bat and charger. It came in almost dead @ 45v and took about 2hr to charge and balance from 3.2 cell avg to 4.15 cell avg.
I am testing on my 1kw hub. I soldered some 3/8 battery terminal connectors on an old jumper cable for the bike/battery connection. They simply push in place.
View attachment 5
I pulled the 4 hidded face screws and 8 exposed side screws, and the entire assembly lifts right out. I didn't have a security bit but standard torx bit with a little slot ground in worked fine. I tested the 14 groups fully charged and they averaged 4.15 after the initial charge. The ribbon cable for bms function is pretty cool, and it's a tight little pack of lg cells.
View attachment 1
I went for wot test ride today. Same road up and back down, 170ft elevation in 1.8 miles . . . I first noticed a sag below 3.5 cell avg after about 65% of the initial 3.6 miles of wot with no pedalling. I continued a back and forth several times of about 200yds on a level alley with wot each time, finishing @ 4.3 miles total. Resting voltage read 49v (~3.5/cell), and full draw sags the pack to ~ 3.2 cell avg.
So I'm quite happy with the 2p of cells. Although they get warm with this use I expect they'll give plenty of cycles for the money, and 1mi per AH is not bad at all for the draw I was pulling. I'm planning on selling this with my 1kw bike and kit for what I paid.
325$ for a 28mph 4mile/charge starter ebike is hard to beat!!!
(40$ bike/stuff, 210$ kit, 75$ battery/charger)
I would recommend to anyone that it would be best @ 1kw to get a second battery in parallel so the cells see less stress, but 1 pack appears sufficient for light use. And what ebike packs even come close in the warranty available??
I am testing on my 1kw hub. I soldered some 3/8 battery terminal connectors on an old jumper cable for the bike/battery connection. They simply push in place.
View attachment 5
I pulled the 4 hidded face screws and 8 exposed side screws, and the entire assembly lifts right out. I didn't have a security bit but standard torx bit with a little slot ground in worked fine. I tested the 14 groups fully charged and they averaged 4.15 after the initial charge. The ribbon cable for bms function is pretty cool, and it's a tight little pack of lg cells.
View attachment 1
I went for wot test ride today. Same road up and back down, 170ft elevation in 1.8 miles . . . I first noticed a sag below 3.5 cell avg after about 65% of the initial 3.6 miles of wot with no pedalling. I continued a back and forth several times of about 200yds on a level alley with wot each time, finishing @ 4.3 miles total. Resting voltage read 49v (~3.5/cell), and full draw sags the pack to ~ 3.2 cell avg.
So I'm quite happy with the 2p of cells. Although they get warm with this use I expect they'll give plenty of cycles for the money, and 1mi per AH is not bad at all for the draw I was pulling. I'm planning on selling this with my 1kw bike and kit for what I paid.
325$ for a 28mph 4mile/charge starter ebike is hard to beat!!!
(40$ bike/stuff, 210$ kit, 75$ battery/charger)
I would recommend to anyone that it would be best @ 1kw to get a second battery in parallel so the cells see less stress, but 1 pack appears sufficient for light use. And what ebike packs even come close in the warranty available??
Attachments
Thanks for posting this. I have recently bought an "EGO" brand weed trimmer, labeled as 56V. It turned out to be 14S lithium 18650 cells, just like this one. I'm very happy with the trimmer, and I plan to get the 56V mower next spring.
58.X volts when fully charged, so if you have any of these tools, a 50V cell_man pack, or a 52V Luna pack will power any of them, all of them are 14S lithium. When an old pack is too worn to provide the full range on your ebike, you might purchase a new battery, but the old pack has a lot of life left in it, just less range than when it was new. A "backpack" battery running a cordless yard tool is a great way to make use of a resource.
edit: also Snapper 60V tools are 14S
The Dewalt "switchable" batteries labeled 20V/60V are 15 cells, so 15S / 1P, .....or 5S / 3P, depending on which tool its plugged into
58.X volts when fully charged, so if you have any of these tools, a 50V cell_man pack, or a 52V Luna pack will power any of them, all of them are 14S lithium. When an old pack is too worn to provide the full range on your ebike, you might purchase a new battery, but the old pack has a lot of life left in it, just less range than when it was new. A "backpack" battery running a cordless yard tool is a great way to make use of a resource.
edit: also Snapper 60V tools are 14S
The Dewalt "switchable" batteries labeled 20V/60V are 15 cells, so 15S / 1P, .....or 5S / 3P, depending on which tool its plugged into
nutnspecial
10 MW
Thanks SM, and that's a good point on reuse and interchangeability.
I mentioned 1mi/ah above but I must correct that to go more inline with what Ykick posted before. Likely the 4mi trip taking cells from 4.15 to 3.5 avg was not even close to 4ah. That does makes me feel even better about longevity for that usage though.
The recharge was 1.5hr btw. This is my first 18650 pack, and I'm impressed that the cells (LG) didn't sag below 3.2v (on avg of course) when hit with wot draw from a resting 3.5v. I guess there's more capacity down there, but my exp with lipo says it's pretty much never a good idea to go lower on sag or resting voltage. ?
I mentioned 1mi/ah above but I must correct that to go more inline with what Ykick posted before. Likely the 4mi trip taking cells from 4.15 to 3.5 avg was not even close to 4ah. That does makes me feel even better about longevity for that usage though.
The recharge was 1.5hr btw. This is my first 18650 pack, and I'm impressed that the cells (LG) didn't sag below 3.2v (on avg of course) when hit with wot draw from a resting 3.5v. I guess there's more capacity down there, but my exp with lipo says it's pretty much never a good idea to go lower on sag or resting voltage. ?
So I've ended up with 2x 2ah - would like to combine them to make a 4ah, but I'm not a battery expert. As you can see in the photos, the control board looks the same as the 4ah ones - only difference is 2 of the 4 banks are empty. Can someone please walk me through how to take the cells from one and add them to the other to make a 4ah pack? PS - I'll be using this in my Echo 58v chainsaw, not on my eBike...
