Echo Tools 58V 4ah Batteries

[speedmd]

Check out doc b's links on how to pull makita packs apart to save some of the welded tabs to solder to if you don't have access to a welder. Personally, don't think it will be worth the effort having pulled a few of these apart and no way to do it without a near total teardown or a major amount of careful cutting. If you do try it, you could most likely insert the cells into the holders from one side if you drilled the side out enough to allow them to slip in. Hot melt or tape should hold them.

 

[madcatv]

A guy I work with had bought the echo 58v power tools and had bought an extra battery pack. He said the first battery never runs out before he is finished therefore he never needs the 2nd battery. that sounds like a good battery. I think $169 is expensive for a battery though.

 

[problemaddict]

Just thought I''d throw this up here. I was checking to see if the battery got warm after a bit of 35 Amp abuse. Not a very scientific test or proving much of anything, i was just curious at the time. Now I'm running two of these batteries in parallel on the same bmx as seen in the video. Even after 30-45min rides, the batteries are never more than almost imperceptibly warm. Meanwhile on the charger they get nice and warm. In my notes I have 25degC hot off the charger with 18degC ambient air temp.

[youtube]jl9jy5bEJZk[/youtube]

 

[magudaman]

I gotta a PM asking about discharge tests and I realized for some reason I never had posted it here!

Anyhow I took the pack all the way down 39v at 350w and pulled 211wh and 4.156ah from the battery. My notes don't indicate the LVC coming in yet but I was afraid to over discharge.

Charger consumes about 320w.

 

[snowfiend]

Hello, new user here looking for help with these Echo batteries (although not necessarily EV related). I have a small collection from getting the various tools on closeout (line trimmer, blower, hedge trimmer, and likely the "chainsaw" soon), 4 batteries along with 4 chargers. I made one of the chargers into a portable 12v power pack, but would like some more capacity since I have the extra batteries sitting around. Required: they still need to work with the yard tools, so no disassembling or modifying the external case.

Attached is the diagram of what I built (blue square) and the proposed parallel batteries. Also a picture of the power pack running the diesel air heater in my garage as a test. I am assuming there is not really a problem paralleling if they are all charged to the same voltage. But can they be charged as a 3 battery pack off one OEM charger as indicated? if not, is there an aftermarket charger that will charge them at once?

Calculated capacity at 204 watt hours x 3 x.95 (buck converter efficiency)= 581 Watt Hours. 581wh / 12v = 48.45 AH battery pack.
Buck Converter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ENGOA4S/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?th=1&tag=viglink20599-20

 

[ngant17]

In my recent threads wrt Greenworks 60v batteries, I think the following comment's by flippy is applicable:

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Re: Greenworks 60v rebuild

by flippy » Mar 06 2019 2:11am
sorry, but that is very dangergous idea, especially for commercial usage.
having 2~3 packs in a product and one dies for whatever reason means the load gets transferd to the other packs wich means those will also conk out.
commercial use means it will keep being used as long as its works so you can be down to one pack and they will still hammer it.
a recepy for disaster and very expensive repairs.
in commercial uses it MUST shut down otherwise it will be run into the ground.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or as fetcher was saying: "Generally it's better to use one big battery as opposed to several smaller ones used one at a time. This reduces the strain on the cells and they will live longer. Combining multiple smaller ones in parallel works but you have to use diodes or have some way to prevent connecting packs of significantly differing voltage."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what flippy and others are advising is that running parallel packs isn't recommended. OTOH I am actually doing the same kind of project as you, 60v 4aH batteries to run a Bafang with a DROK buck converter to protect the Bafang electronics. Lately I inclining toward the 58v Echos because I can eliminate the DROK since Bafang computer has an over-voltage threshold of 61.5v but not more. Another thing I like about the Echo 58v batteries is the thicker rail guides which makes fabrication easier. Greenworks has slimmer rail guides but DIY rack mounts are not very difficult for either brand.

Personally I am going to follow their advice and install battery isolation switches, cheapest off the shelf option for me is the ones used on RVs and boats to manage dual batteries. For three batteries, that would be a second isolation switch since it's difficult to find switches for a triple set of batteries. A single-pole, triple-throw switches(SP3T) are expensive so it's cheaper to just get two of the dual battery isolator switches.

 

[Invisionelite]

This could be the cell spec sheet.

found this on Alibaba, seems like the right spec sheet for these echo batteries, I have about 100 cells so looking good for a nice 20s5p pack

 

[Philtek]

Hey all who are still interested in these echo tool series. I purchased the chainsaw hoping to use my 17Ah 14s ebike batteries directly with the chainsaw. Unfortunately, the chainsaw wants to have a chat with the battery and since I don't have one I'm unable to sniff the signal and replicate it with a micro. The two middle pins the battery slot are for data and it looks like it might be rs232 but I'm not quite sure...

Does someone out there have one these tool/battery sets and an oscilloscope to capture the exchange between the tool and battery? If I cant figure out the protocol I'll likely buy a battery and charger.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QONy4M3tCMfC6ahy28BpRtz8f9lttcB6

 

[johnnymiller]

I am also trying to get a ebike battery to power my echo chainsaw and trimmer. They start up fine, but then shut down after 2 seconds of running. I have only the positive and negative wires connected to my battery. ANY ONE KNOW HOW I SHOULD HOOK UP THE MIDDLE TERMINALS ON THE CHAINSAW OR WEED EATER TO MAKE THE UNITS STAY ON? JOHNNY I am using a 30 amp hour em3v battery in a back pack. Trying to avoid buying small echo batteries for farm work and use my bike battery for multiple purposes.

 

[Philtek]

I have yet to have the chance to sniff the signal from a battery and saw talking back and forth. Far as I can tell the two middle wires are differential serial data. A packet is sent and the saw waits for a reply then shuts down when the battery doesn't reply. A scope cap of the exchange would be great...

 

[echobatterydissection]

Philtek -- ran into your post searching the internet for more info about these batteries. Thanks for the push to try a little harder after seeing the scope picture. I hooked up my string trimmer to a battery with the case removed. Connected o-scope probe with ground clip to the two middle terminals on the battery. I also have a DS1054Z and decoded with RS232 at the 115200 baud rate. Set a voltage trigger to record a single event, then scrolled through.

As an aside-- with only the battery connected to the o-scope and the string trimmer load to the +/- of the battery I recorded:
battery: B " A

Sniffing the tool side only I see something like
tool: { < .
tool: { . }
tool: . . }
tool: { . .
Then it turns off as the previous poster was having trouble with. Only runs for a few seconds.

When I connected both the battery and tool I can see a slight voltage difference between the square wave trains (3.5 V vs 3.2 V). The B " A trains are 3.2 V so I am concluding that all signals at this voltage are from the battery.

Handshake I think goes like this:
[little voltage dip assuming from activating the string trimmer throttle switch]
battery: B " A
[long pause, then some motor?? startup noise]
tool: B CAN A
battery: B " A
tool: B NAK A
battery: B . DLE (???? not sure about this one-- have to lookup what the DLE symbol is)
tool: B U b CR A
battery: B . DLE (these last happen in pretty rapid succession (just a few bit widths apart)-- almost like a try again packet saying "waiting")

then a long time elapses... ~240 ms
battery: B RS A
tool: B NAK A

then a long time...~240 ms
battery: B RS A
tool: B NAK A

If there is interest I'll put in a little more effort and figure out how to get the actual data off the scope and upload it somewhere so it can be emulated/faked on a microcontroller. Ultimately I am hoping to buy some replacement parts of Echo's webiste-- looks like the mower has the battery connector housing and connector block for a few dollars... and cobble something fun together (AC inverter... over-volted Powerwheels...). The open-box trimmer and 4 Ah batteries were on clearance (75% off??) at my local HD... more than half the lowest eBay price... it was difficult to say "no" to some sort of journey/learning experience... also the hard-to-get grass finally got cut.

 

[echobatterydissection]

O-scope data in CSV: https://drive.google.com/open?id=11_MX0uDROkU2qc8Cy3KgP3qYhhLCaIBU

 

[problemaddict]

How to revive Echo Batteries:

https://youtu.be/EnC-oackhIE

I've got a couple batteries that discharged and tripped the BMS & now they won't charge. Searching for a solution, I found this video. I haven't tried it yet, but I expect it will work. I figured I should add it to this post for future reference.

 

[PeterSilie]

anyone still following this thread?

 

[magudaman]

Yes sir

anyone still following this thread?

 

[PeterSilie]

Yes sir

Great! I got a AEG brand trimmer using a very similar batterypack (labeled 50V). Apparently the comms are dead so the tool is shutting of after the well known 2 seconds.

thanks to @echobatterydissection I'm dissecting the oscilloscope recording of the communication in pulseview right now. see screenshot.
I'll try to attach the pulseview project as attachment.

could anyone upload some more data ?
maybe even from a 50V battery pack?

I think it's time to order a rs485 transceiver...

thanks very much in advance

 

[yabert]

Hi all
So, is anyone had been able to use Echo tool with none Echo 14S battery?
I have chainsaw powered by my ebike battery and without handshake the tool stop after few seconds.

Please le me know.
Thanks

 

[PeterSilie]

Until now I was too lazy and/or there was not a high enough demand to further invest time into this project.
The Materials are here (RS-485 Tranceiver, Arduino, Logic Analyzer) but the motivation is not...

I think it should be possible to create a fake response from the diy battery pack using an arduino and the annotated communication in my previous post.

hope to find an arduino project soon

 

[NicoCappelli]

.Hi.
My chainsaw battery dont last enought this winter so i decided to recell It.
Once i opened the Echo battery case,figured out large amount of unused space,so i created a new precisely fit battery pack with 21700 Sanyo ncr2170c (3500mah 30A ,best cost-effective Cell on nkon.nl).
And Stick the original control board on It,with new handmade terminals.
Now this battery weight 2.2 kg and have a capacity of 7ah.
Hope this can help someone

 

[proffkursk]

Hi All,
Could someone read and share the flash from PIC16F1516-I/SS of a AEG and ECHO 58V batteries in BIN format, please?
Thanks!