First e-bike build: considering 3 options

S

shadetree

1 mW
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
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I want to build an e-bike. I have 3 design ideas, and would like some feedback on which might be best first project to tackle.

1. 29" MTB with disc brakes and front fork. I have this bike. I would like to make it be able to cruise 20-25mph or so, along lake road for 3 miles, then climb this https://www.strava.com/segments/8999521?filter=overall 2.7 miles, 932 elevation gain, 6% average grade, though it gets to 15% in spots. I currently pedal this climb in a 30X36 gear. I weigh 175 lbs. I am going to pedal, I just want it to go faster. Would an ebay 48v 1000w wheel kit, $200 and 48v 15ah li-ion triangle shaped battery do this climb? Should I get a leaf bike 48v 1500w?, $340 This bike has a ton of room in the front triangle. What hub/battery combo do you think would tackle this once? twice? I am open to buying hub, controller, battery separate. There is one side of me that says just keep you're first build easy and get a dillenger kit. There's another side of me that thinks a bafang middrive BBS-02 is the way to go.
I would like to keep the kit as light as possible, and the bike as efficient as possible. Ideally, I'd like the battery and controller all contained in the front triangle of the bike. Battery, hub, controller, I'd all like to keep as small and light as possible. I am moderated by desire to keep first project affordable, easy to build and maintain battery. I understand lipo is lighter, higer performance, but more finicky, and to some degree think that a li-ion set up makes more sense for first build. I am torn between cheapy ebay 48v 1000w, golden leaf 48v x 1500w and bafang middrive, with 48v x 20ah triangle li ion http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/Free-bag-Ebike-Battery-48v-20Ah-1000W-Electric-Bike-Battery-48V-with-2A-Charger-BMS-Lithium/32462744501.html?spm=2114.10010108.100005.10.lyzU8G# or lunacycle.


2. Iron Horse Kumicho DH bike. http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/ooklathemoc/media/2012-10-25171701.jpg.html Buddy is asking $300, think I can get it cheaper. I'd want to do the same climb as before, but more power, less concerned about light weight. I'd like to keep the batterys in the front triangle; some in cavity between tt and dt in front of the shock, and some to the side of dt/tt. I don't wan't to get too crazt with battery building... ideally like something where I pair 4 batteries together relatively simply. This bike would be less about pedalling, more throttle. Thinking 1500w hub and lipo.
http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bike-conversion-kit/700c-inch-electric-hub-motor-kit/newest-700c-inch-48v-1500w-rear-hub-motor-bike-conversion-kit-989.html
I would want lipo batteries, in the cavity of the front triangle of the frame, in front of the shock, as well as to the side of the down tube/top tube, starting where the shock is. I'd plan to fill in the "tank" with styrofoam and ducktape.

3. Novara touring bike with Qute Q100 geared hub, lightweight, minimalistic build. The bike is 26lb touring bike, with triple and canti brakes. I'd like to have battery/controller all in rack bag, discretely hidden. I'd like this bike to be pedal elec, no throttle. https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/426-q100-36v250w-350w-rear-e-bike-kit-with-led-meter-ebike-kit.html
 
I'm 270 lbs. Videos in sigline will give an idea of what a 1000W motor will do.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66302
 
After at least a dozen different builds with various hub motors, trailers, bikes, trikes, etc. I have become a big proponent of the BBS02. Last three builds were all 48V 500W BBS02s, one delta trike, one tadpole trike, and one 26" cruiser for my sister.

Here's why I like the BBS02. Light weight, efficient, bikes feel the same and can easily be pedaled without using the motor, good acceleration and top speed, and good hill climbing ability.

Downside of the BBS02 includes price and, on a regular bike, possible chain issues. On my sister's bike I installed a Nexus 8 IGH with no chain guides or tensioners and she hasn't had any chain issues in almost 2 years. On my recumbent trikes there is such a long chain that with just a standard derailleur I've had no chain issues.

If you use a small hub motor you have to be careful not to let it lug down on steep hills, which means you have to be able to help it enough to keep your speed up. I have set up two friends with one wheel trailers using hub motors. They can both climb 15% grades, but the direct drive motor heats up. The little geared motor does fine, but it tops out under 15 MPH on the flat. Both of these motors were designed for 26" wheels and are laced into 16" wheels on the trailers.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
 
Appreciate the feed back.
For the MTB's, I really want it to climb that 1000ft elevation climb. It takes me 30-35 minutes, currently. Fast guys do it in 20 minutes.

I'd like to keep the bike as lightweight as possible, as well as off road capable. I will be mountain biking on it... on bike/moto trails. I'd prefer that the hub wasn't insanely heavy and that it didn't have tons of drag when not on the juice. Which is a con of the direct hub motors...
The bafang mid drive does seem like the best climbing option. I am not really a fan of how low it mounts in front of the BB... I'd be worried about hitting it on logs and rocks. Also the steel rings are huge and flimsy looking.... I have noticed that there are aftermarket alloy rings and chainring spiders. I am also concerned about the square taper BB and cranks... used to break those all the time in the old school mtb days... the 2 piece hollowtech cranks are sooo much stronger.
Also, 500w does not seem like that much juice for climbing.
I wonder if a geared 1000w MAC motor would be a better choice?
 
Large, 5Kg. hub motors, like the Mac, become really noticeable off road, in a bad way.
The new Q128C(and H), which is sized between a mini and large geared, is getting great reviews.
A Q128 2WD would make a killer trail bike.

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/768-q128c-135mm-500w-rear-driving-ebike-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html
 
How much $$$ do you want to spend?

How handy are you, and or willing to do some DIY install/design?

From what you've said thus far, it would appear to me that you are leaning towards a high performance yet lightweight package that can be added to a bicycle you have or can get easily.

Here are a few options that I would look into:

Kranked EGO 2400 (High Cost, but Very High Performance)

kranked-ego-2400-electric-bike-kit-review-lbox-1200x600-FFFFFF.jpg


http://electricbikereview.com/kranked/ego-2400/

I would also agree with Rassy that the BBSO2 is a very good system, but since you mentioned some concerns about it, here are some other options:

TranzX (Bottom Bracket Drive available in a complete E-Bike package made by Currie)

https://www.electricbike.com/2014-mid-drive/

MidFactory262.png


(I've been very impressed with Currie's latest line-up, the ***EDIT Pro Tour *** will be available soon for 2016 with a 500W (most competition is in the 350W range) and "mid drive or BB drive" units often can multiple their advantages using the bicycle's gearing + better over-all power to weight ration VS hub motors in the rear wheel, giving better handling and over-all performance, since you can go longer with less battery because of the increased efficiency.)

Here is a video from Interbike on Izip (Currie) new line-up,(

goto 8:28 to see the info on the E3 Peak & Peak DS)

[youtube]PLbo4sKHl0Y[/youtube]




http://www.izipusa.com/bikes-trail-sport-ebikes-e3-peak-ds

Currently, the Izip E3 Peak DS is probably one of the best BB drive complete Ebikes for sale IMHO. (I would hold out for the 500w *** Edit Pro Tour *** coming soon for 2016!)

Peak_DS_flat.jpg


Considering that to have similar performance, to include all the extras of E-Bikes have built over the years, (6 or 7 now?) I would say that my father's Giant with DD rear hub, (hard-tail, not FS) is probably the closest to something like this but has only a 36V 12 AH Li-Ion battery weighs about 60 lbs, and still cost around $2600 to build, and has lower quality components (120 mm disc front, V-brake rear).

Where the Izip E3 Dash has even better performance and quality components, for just about $400 more at $2999 with a much lower center of gravity & efficient drive system. (48V, Shimano Hydro Brakes, rack, fenders, lights, kickstand, etc.)

http://www.izipusa.com/bikes-pavement-sport-ebikes-e3-dash

Dash_flat.jpg


I haven't personally owned any Izip or Currie products, but I know someone not far from me (10miles?) who has been selling them for years, and I have to say they have come a LONG way in quality, and have always been known for customer support, and I would say that the E3 Peak DS is pretty close to on-par with some much higher end Ebikes such as the Stromer for much more affordable prices, sure Ebikes like the Stromer are more refined, but they also start at 2 -3x the price!
 
Very interesting. That Tangent setup looks pretty slick, tho I guess the RC motor is super noisy. I am not too far from Seattle, I might try to track those guys down.

My budget is <$1000, and I am pretty mechanical, been bike mechainc, have done engine swaps, added turbos to cars, built pcs, though my electrical knowledge is a bit lacking. I was thinking $300ish motor, $300ish battery. I may wait on the MTB ideas, and give the mid drive more time to mature.

I am thinking I will start with the Q100 touring bike, stealth build. Seems cheaper to build functionally, in a way that I would be satisfied with. Seems like people get pretty good results running them overvolted.
 
From my experience, don't consider the rear hub DD system. I achieve 30 mph with a 52V battery, but the (at least) 20 pound wheel would make any off road riding miserable (IMO). Front hub with mid battery is nicely balanced and relatively light weight, but, like you say, overvolt it or you'll get less of a boost than you expect (IMO). 750w BBS02 from Luna easily satisfies your budget and should provide all the power you need. Like you say, ground clearance will be compromised. Mother Nature isn't a nice person.
 
Agree, as soon as you said you wanted to ride off road, and keep it light, that completely eliminated the 15 pound dd motor.

But at 9 pounds or so, the larger (500w rated) geared rear motors do pretty good off road when you run them on 1000-1500 actual watts. This is a fairly light, and fairly affordable option. The only catch 22 is you should not huck big air with these motors. Small pops ok, but when you land, have the throttle off. Throttle on landings can shear the axle key, which is there to protect the gears from damage. Fixing that is easy, but your ride is over for that day. A typical set up like this can tackle 15% grades with ease, if you pedal. I routinely ride up a short grade close to 30% with mine.

Mid drive. Is it a coincidence that the major brands are all offering tons of mid drives in 2016? Not hardly, But the best systems, the bosch and the shimano steps will be VERY pricy.

I can't say shit about the BBs02, I have only ridden one a few min. But for off road riding, mid drive for the win. They can simply get up grades that a hub motor given only 1000w will struggle with.

That does not mean both my rear hub motor off road bikes suck. But they can be outperformed (steepness of grade) on a big steep hill by any mid drive. But, it does not make my heavy ass, 2000w rear dd bike no fun to ride. It's just not a "bike" ride really. That ones a fun flyweight motorcycle ride. The geared hub bike, is a dream for me to ride off road. I'm not interested much in riding trails so hard it will struggle. and like I said, it goes up a crazy steep 300 vertical climb all the time no problem. I don't want to ride trails so hard I must have a mid drive. But that said, I'd love to have a bosh powered bike. But I aint paying for one. :lol:
 
Over the last year I've spent quite a bit of time researching riding systems on other people's bikes, and finally buying a few DD Hub Motors, a Geared Hubmotor and BBS02 Mid Drive to test and report on.

They all have good and bad in different ways.

The BBS02 is hard to beat for what you're looking for. Its by far the most efficient so you can either go with a smaller battery or enjoy a longer range. The drawbacks?
• Shifting requires developing new habits; don't waste the money on the "shifter switches", just lean how to shift either at speed or with a quick backpedal.
• Single front chainring - you can later upgrade to a SRAM DualDrive hub but set the BBS02 to 500 watts.
• PAS Cadence sensing on the BBS02 is OK, so long as you're not trying to exactly match the speeds of other riders.
• Drive systems will wear about twice as fast/ chains sprockets.
• Buy a battery with an internal "fuel gauge", the Bafang is a bit off.

I ride a recumbent trike and my best choice was the MAC 10T. But my needs are different than yours.

You may want to look through this Power Assist Primer that includes some reports, pictures and videos.
 
I have about 1600$ in my fat bike with BBSHD and 20ah 52v battery running a Nexus 3 and it blows away any Currie or Bosh at 1/2 the price. Air down to 12.5psi for dirt and up to 20 for the street. It has dual 160mm discs and 4" wide tires for traction on and off the pavement. If the BBS02 came with a one piece BB from Bafang I would have tried one of them first, since being CA legal is an issue in some places I ride. If I have to turn down the HD to 750w I might as well have the BBS02 and save some weight. Then again, a 100mm BBS02 costs the same as a 100mm BBSHD...... Still for a Ca Class 1 eBike, I bet a BBS02 would be more than enough motor, too bad power is so addicting: it would be hard to give up the HD now!

In your case since you can use a standard 68mm BBS02, that is what I would go with. In the long run it is more versatile than any hub motor for more types of riding and since you mention off-roading it is almost mandatory (for better handling by centralizing the weight if for nothing else). There is a reason that all dirt motorcycles for the past 90 years or so have tried to keep weight off of the wheels and move as much of it as possible to the lower/center part of the machine: they just work better.

I am starting to ride on singletrack and I thought that I would have a problem bashing the drive on rocks and things, but have yet to make contact. It does help to roll your drive up against your bike downtube during installation and see where it makes contact, in my case I was able to trim a lug on the drive with a Dremel and get an extra inch or so. It brought the Bafang logo on the drive up to a position parallel to the chainstays and improved clearance substantially.
 
Very Interesting, thanks for the feedback. I fired an email off to Doug @cali e-bike, and he thinks a 750wt bbs02 and 48 volt – 12.8Ah (4C) http://california-ebike.com/product/48v-12-8ah-lithium-downtube-mounted-battery/ with appropriate 32-36t chainring would get me to the top of the climb I want to do, no problems, most likely twice. Tempting. $650 motor, $700 battery, $30 chain ring spider. I have a 34 and 36t RF narrowide kicking around. I'd also get a new sunrace 11-42 10 speed cassette $60 and kmc x10 chain $30.

This is the bike it would go on, an XL Kona Taro. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ProstheticGod/media/taro2_zps3ac9fa50.jpg.html This is not my personal bike, mine is in my storage room currently, missing a couple parts, I robbed to build up my current MTB. I would need to get brakes for it... going with TRP or Avid cable discs would prolly make my first build easier. The bike has a DT swiss rear hub, which is quite light and holds up to crazy torque, 29" rim, disc, cassette. It also has XT cranks, light and stiff. 120mm Rockshox with 20mm axle.

Mid drive setup: lose 715g in the XT cranks.

Dogman, which larger geared hub motors are you thinking might be up to task? There is that Q128H 800w hub that is appealing to me. Or are you thinking a MAC?
This type of setup is tempting to me, in that 1. I'd like to keep bike as stealth as possible. 2. If it doesn't have enough guts, I'd could always put it on the touring bike and have a pretty quick commuter bike.
 
You are jumping all over the place. You need to decide if you want to go hub motor or mid-drive, budget components or high end. Then the details of the system can be focused in on.
Two salient points that you need to be aware of now are;
If you order your system components from overseas, freight costs are a large part of your expenditure. To keep these costs as low as possible, it is advisable to order everything from one vendor. If you order, say the Mac motor from the-well-thought of vendor in China, it would make sense to order his battery and accessories and pretty soon, you will have a $2000 system. Not saying it's not worth it, to someone who needs it and can afford it, I am sure it's worth the extra money.
But, if after a reality check, you want to stay closer to your stated $1000 budget, then you really need to order from one of the three DIY parts vendors in China. They are BMS Battery, E life Bike and Green Bike Kit. I say DIY because these are "mix and match" supply houses and the buyer need be aware of what he ordering. There are pitfalls in taking this route.
The other point to consider concerning rear hub motors and that is free wheel vs. cassette. Motors with the suffix C, mean they will accept the cassette that comes with the donor bike, which allows the drive train to remain intact. All other motors will require the purchase of a DNP "Enoch" free wheel. While these work, it is generaly thought to be sub-standard to most OEM cassettes, and they are heavy. The more power a system has, the less of a concern shifting becomes. On my lower-powered builds, I have found it's worth keeping the cassette, even if some trade-offs are required. That's why I recommended the Q128C as opposed to the Q128H.
As far as "how much power is required for trial Ebike", it's a matter of hills. My 1200 Watt 2 WD will climb most anything if I get a run at it and the hill is not long. Climbing hills like a gas-powered bike requires lot's power and perhaps a mid drive. For me, it means that I am looking for a way around steep hills, or get off and push. That's an Ok trade-off, because steep hills are rare where I ride.
For trail Ebikes, as power is added, two other areas to quickly become lacking are battery and wheels/tires. Even at 1200 Watts, hills eat up battery capacity fast. It's best to overspec the battery.
At anything more than "plonking speed", tires the Achilles Heel(s). I quickly felt the need for wider tires and wheels and a plan for flat-proofing(or reduction I should say, as I am not sure flat-proofing is possible). Regardless of what motor system you go with, I would allow for extra expenditures for custom wheel/tires.
To that end, I would not start with a 29'er for a number of reasons. Way more availability with 26" components and more space to fit a 2.5" plus tire between the chain stays.
What I'm to do here is point out it is important to think about the overall bike and notput all your allowcation into a motor that will fly and have a bike that scares you to death when you try.
 
Appreciate the feedback. I'm guessing the well regarded chinese vendor for mac hubs in em3ev?
Do you have a ballpark for shipping fees and time, for a complete kit from these guys, BMS, Elife, Greenbike? $200? More, less?

I know I am bouncing all over, but I feel like I am starting to narrow in on a decent first system build. For example, I am no longer considering big direct drive hub X DH bike bike build.
I have kinda ruled out the E-dirtbike. Realizing, that to put together an E-DH bike that actually shreds uphill, you are looking at $2000+, and it's going be crazy heavy with huge hub motor and mega batteries... and at that point, I'd just get a used enduro moto.

Basically, my 2 options now are:

1. 750wt Bafang BBS-02 mid drive/ 48 volt – 12.8Ah (4C) for about $1400-1500 from cali ebike. I think this set up might give me what I'm looking for, relatively lightweight, helps knock some time off my climbs. I am decently fit, and willing to pedal. I mostly want to use this bike as a trail building access bike. I volunteer trail build quite a bit. Some of the projects I am working on require an hour or so climb to get to work site. Most of the time, I am riding with a pack with tools, fasteners, beer, food. I feel like I'd get way more done, if I got there in 30-40 mins instead of an hour, so had more time/daylight, and was not so spent from climbing before starting work.

I would prefer to buy from US based shops, that stand behind their products. I am willing to spend a few bucks more, to get product faster, know that the vendor has vetted their goods, and offer advice and support.

I am a pretty serious MTB rider and a taller dood... I would not consider riding a 26" MTB these days, unless it's a DH bike. For HT 29" all day, bigger wheels roll over bumps way better and have better traction. My current trailbike is a 27.5 transition patrol, with 150mm travel at both ends, dropper post, weighs about 30lbs. I understand that the bigger diameter wheels, increase top speed/lower torque for climbing on hub motors. Not willing to sacrifice ride benefits of the bigger wheel tho. Likewise, I'd like to keep the bike light-ish and efficient to pedal. I'm not gonna run 2.5" DH tires on a trail bike. Currently I have a Schwalbe Hans Dampf 2.35" f and maxxis ardent 2.3" on the back, tubeless. They are set up tubeless, and I have very few problems with flats, even riding DH bike type trails. I would consider going to a WTB trail boss or maxxis DHR2.


2. geared hub motor. I would very much prefer to use a cassette for the MTB, both for wider range 11-42, 10 speed that work with current shifter/der. Also, the DNM freewheels do not hold up to much pedaling torque... I know I would blow thru those things with regularity.
This set up is tempting to me in that it's less expensive. I could try it out on the HT 29" bike, and if it is not giving me the performance I'm looking for, I could always put it on the 700c touring bike, and have a pretty solid commuter machine. I am leaning this way, because I'm cheap, I'd like to keep it simple and lightweight, and I see the first bike I build as a learning experience. I am very likely going to convert both the touring bike and the 29" HT to e-bikes.
 
Mixed road & hilly off road. I'd choose a mid drive.

Changing a flat on a hub motor wheel is time consuming. I've worn out 2x MAC geared hub clutches doing MTB stuff. IMHO, a geared hubbie is a road & gravel choice.

Since both wheels are unmolested, you can buy an arsenal of wheel types based on terrain, weather, or whatever. Quickswap to your heart's desire.

Get a midfat 29er ( i.e., Surly Krampus). Put some 2-2.5" durable commuting tires with thick DH tubes for work. Options are pretty available these days. Switch to 35-50mm wide rims & cushed out 3" tires on the weekends and roll over stuff. I get buyer's remorse ever since Surly opened up more bike options. My Ogre can't do 3" rears, and I have a trail near my home that a 3" tire would be ideal. Not to mention the appeal in the snow.


Choices, choices, choices...
 
Forget calibike,luna cycles is based in California and you will sAve big bucks,
.
 
shadetree said:
Appreciate the feedback. I'm guessing the well regarded chinese vendor for mac hubs in em3ev?
Do you have a ballpark for shipping fees and time, for a complete kit from these guys, BMS, Elife, Greenbike? $200? More, less?

I know I am bouncing all over, but I feel like I am starting to narrow in on a decent first system build. For example, I am no longer considering big direct drive hub X DH bike bike build.
I have kinda ruled out the E-dirtbike. Realizing, that to put together an E-DH bike that actually shreds uphill, you are looking at $2000+, and it's going be crazy heavy with huge hub motor and mega batteries... and at that point, I'd just get a used enduro moto.

Basically, my 2 options now are:

1. 750wt Bafang BBS-02 mid drive/ 48 volt – 12.8Ah (4C) for about $1400-1500 from cali ebike. I think this set up might give me what I'm looking for, relatively lightweight, helps knock some time off my climbs. I am decently fit, and willing to pedal. I mostly want to use this bike as a trail building access bike. I volunteer trail build quite a bit. Some of the projects I am working on require an hour or so climb to get to work site. Most of the time, I am riding with a pack with tools, fasteners, beer, food. I feel like I'd get way more done, if I got there in 30-40 mins instead of an hour, so had more time/daylight, and was not so spent from climbing before starting work.

I would prefer to buy from US based shops, that stand behind their products. I am willing to spend a few bucks more, to get product faster, know that the vendor has vetted their goods, and offer advice and support.

I am a pretty serious MTB rider and a taller dood... I would not consider riding a 26" MTB these days, unless it's a DH bike. For HT 29" all day, bigger wheels roll over bumps way better and have better traction. My current trailbike is a 27.5 transition patrol, with 150mm travel at both ends, dropper post, weighs about 30lbs. I understand that the bigger diameter wheels, increase top speed/lower torque for climbing on hub motors. Not willing to sacrifice ride benefits of the bigger wheel tho. Likewise, I'd like to keep the bike light-ish and efficient to pedal. I'm not gonna run 2.5" DH tires on a trail bike. Currently I have a Schwalbe Hans Dampf 2.35" f and maxxis ardent 2.3" on the back, tubeless. They are set up tubeless, and I have very few problems with flats, even riding DH bike type trails. I would consider going to a WTB trail boss or maxxis DHR2.


2. geared hub motor. I would very much prefer to use a cassette for the MTB, both for wider range 11-42, 10 speed that work with current shifter/der. Also, the DNM freewheels do not hold up to much pedaling torque... I know I would blow thru those things with regularity.
This set up is tempting to me in that it's less expensive. I could try it out on the HT 29" bike, and if it is not giving me the performance I'm looking for, I could always put it on the 700c touring bike, and have a pretty solid commuter machine. I am leaning this way, because I'm cheap, I'd like to keep it simple and lightweight, and I see the first bike I build as a learning experience. I am very likely going to convert both the touring bike and the 29" HT to e-bikes.
Click to expand...
Yes, I was refering to Paul @ em3ev.
I get most everything thing from BMS Battery and the shipping averages 50 to 70 % of the parts cost. You can do a " dry run" order to what they might be. At least we don't have to pay import taxes like so many others here(from other countries).
I've lost out on a few things from BMS Battery over the years, but overall, I'm happy. The more you order, the more the average works in your favor. And they are getting better all the time. These days, you place the order and hear nothing for 10 working days, then recieve a tracking # and 3 days after thqat, the stuff is at your door. It pays to keep communication with them via Emial.
The "budget" large geared is the Bafang BPM and there is a CST version. It's been around a while and has some parts available, but is no Mac.
 
If you are going to put a motor on a bike, you want as much tire as possible, not just for comfort, but for traction in all conditions. The rolling resistance of a 4" tire is irrelevant with a BBSxx drive plus a decent 48/52v battery and with tire pressure at 20psi or above it will coast just fine on pavement. Once you get used to what a BBSxx will do, your riding style will change to reflect your new capabilities. I could not imagine riding a skinny tired MTB with the speed and power of a BBSHD, to say nothing of a 700c touring bike. You folks are far braver than I am! Give me lots of rubber and big disc brakes if I am going to be "pedaling" a low powered electric motorcycle.

Buy a fat bike with disc brakes from any online seller (I like Dikes Direct) but get disc brakes and don't settle for less than a true 4" tire on at least 50mm rims. You will be putting them one your second build anyway..... :wink: And don't skimp on your helmet either: you will soon be riding farther and faster than before.
 
Now that I've ridden fat bikes, I'm still not completely sold on them, unless you do ride in lots of snow or deep sand.

But I do run the widest tire that will fit my regular FS mtb's, for those older frames about 2.5 inch rear. I prefer a deeper dig on the front tire for better flick turns, but still that's 2.3"s. For my particular areas soils and trail conditions. This is very important! One guys local ride may like fatties better, anothers might be ideal with a 2" tire. As always, the real answer is "It depends", on the riding style and location of the individual.

Re the larger geared motor. Yes, I meant the Mac, or a highly similar motor such as sold by my employer. I'm riding the 10t winding my employer sells that is close to identical to the mac. It's a freewheel motor. E bike kit did try a limited run of cassette motors, but they ended up 145 mm wide. I'm not sure if bafang or somebody has a 500w rated motor with cassette, in 135mm wide. So many motors, very hard to keep up. Mostly I've seen cassette motors in direct drive types, not geared. Hard to make a geared motor skinny enough, with the clutch and gears taking up space.

But, and I say this about 10 times a day to customers at work,,,, You will only use about 3 gears once you have a motor. Really. Seriously. You simply do not need 30 gears anymore. This does not make a freewheel run smoother or quieter, but you can ride off road all day and have only a shit cheap 7 speed freewheel, and still be happy as hell.

But, you will need a new rear shifter, to convert a 10 speed to 7. So a Mac or similar geared motor with a cassette would be very nice!

All in all, I definitely get the feeling you would be happiest with the bbso2. If you were talking to me on the chat at work, I'd be trying to save the company money by not selling a kit to a fussy customer we knew would not be getting what he really wants. No point in selling you a hub motor, when you want those 30 gears. We know you won't use 30, but you still won't be happy with what we sell,,,, so get out of here.
 
dogman dan said:
But, and I say this about 10 times a day to customers at work,,,, You will only use about 3 gears once you have a motor. Really. Seriously. You simply do not need 30 gears anymore. This does not make a freewheel run smoother or quieter, but you can ride off road all day and have only a shit cheap 7 speed freewheel, and still be happy as hell.
Click to expand...

The OP mentioned he wants to pedal. While I ride a trike, I also like to pedal. I have 30 gears and use every one. If I rode a bike it would be the same.

The geared motor from your employer is interesting wish it had specs.
 
That's great,....but we are talking Powered bikes/trikes here.
 
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