gas price thread

The Toecutter said:
Hillhater said:
I guess the Millitary realise they need reliiable power 24/7....
The US Army will have a portable nuclear reactor ready by 2024
https://interestingengineering.com/us-army-portable-nuclear-reactor-2024

That is a sad waste of resources and energy. We should have versions supplying entire towns and cities.
Because they're still building and testing it:
"BWXT will use its existing facilities to build the portable modules over the next two years and deliver the reactor to the Idaho National Laboratory by 2024. "
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
But that doesn't give me the right, especially when again, I could seriously hurt someone else in my area by my actions. Individual or corporation, that shit stays in a lab with protocols that are written in blood for a reason, and it's not hard to seriously experiment with rented lab space. Hell, people build fusors in their homes for nuclear fusion research, but as an avid fan of Styropyro I know how far those guys will go in the name of safety.

Almost everything you do could seriously hurt someone. The how isn't as obvious because you probably have no intent to do so.

The very institution you're counting on to prevent you or anyone else from harming others via establishing the "rules" for everyone to follow that were written under the guise of preventing such harm, rules that this institution allowed for-profit special interests to write, is deliberately harming more people than anything else in history, with intent.

Whatever you think the reason is, this is the reality.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Because they're still building and testing it:
"BWXT will use its existing facilities to build the portable modules over the next two years and deliver the reactor to the Idaho National Laboratory by 2024. "

I get that, but instead of developing this technology for positive reasons, it's being developed to enhance the capacity of the U.S. government to kill.

Nuclear power as we have historically known it has been extremely inefficient, expensive, and toxic. Boiling water reactors through the U.S. alone could destroy life on Earth as we know it, were the ability to maintain them to cease. Then there's the massive media cover-up regarding Fukushima; citizens of Japan aren't allowed to say certain truths about that shitshow, and somehow the courts there find that one being barred from discussing those things doesn't violate their right to "free speech" either.

But nuclear has the potential to be something other than that, but that purpose is not being pursued with society's resources much and average people who actually have good intentions are being barred from pursuing it as well. This technology is necessary if we are to have any hope of cleaning up the existing waste that previous iterations of the technology used by large institutions have burdened us with.
 
The Toecutter said:
The very institution you're counting on to prevent you or anyone else from harming others via establishing the "rules" for everyone to follow that were written under the guise of preventing such harm, rules that this institution allowed for-profit special interests to write, is deliberately harming more people than anything else in history, with intent.

You need to hear the story of the Demon Core.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
You need to hear the story of the Demon Core.

I have. Plenty of mistakes in that to learn from. But it changes nothing I've said.

This technology has a lot of positive uses, which are for the most part, not being pursued. That with the potential of renewables like wind and solar, demonstrates that an energy crisis should never be a threat to our civilization in this day and age. But it is a threat, precisely because of the consequences of those actions taken by people and institutions who are making the rules that greatly profit themselves but are somehow supposedly working on our behalf, while using our resources that they've helped themselves to via threat of force, to enhance and expand their own capacity to extract money from, intimidate, control, and/or kill you, I, and nearly everyone else. Our planet is a garbage dump not so much the result of collective human behavior, but as a result of those people and institutions making the biggest decisions in society WITHOUT regard to the thoughts or opinions of the rest of the world.

The David Hahns of this world aren't the menace here.

There are tens of thousands of nuclear weapons on this planet. Each and every one of those has the potential for their materials to be re-purposed into something that benefits society greatly. Trillions of dollars equivalent was expended to build these weapons, and they do nothing to improve society or the human condition at all. But the materials they are composed of, could quite literally enrich the whole of humanity if used in a less overtly violent and useless manner.

And it is individuals with good intentions that are going to find out how to put these rare and dangerous fissile resources to beneficial use, not institutions that only want to extract money from, intimidate, control, and/or kill others with these same materials. It's rather backwards that the former are restricted greatly by the latter, but the latter have given themselves free reign and generally ignore any opinions or input by the former, don't you think?
 
slaphappygamer said:
Seeing $6.67 a gallon in Monterey. Really happy I’m riding my ebike to get to, and from, work. This the reason I got an ebike, but now I’m hooked. I feel dirty when I drive.

I now use my bike or e-bike for essentially all in-town trips. The only exception is if I leave town I might do an in-town side trip on the way home. (In town = Fountains Hills. Small town on the outskirts of Phoenix Metro area.

The e-bike makes this more practical by reducing uphill effort, speeding long trips, and making carrying more stuff less effortful in general.
 
The Toecutter said:
..... but the latter have given themselves free reign and generally ignore any opinions or input by the former, don't you think?

Well, to quote Milton Friedman, greed is good.....

[youtube]RWsx1X8PV_A[/youtube]
 
wturber said:
I now use my bike or e-bike for essentially all in-town trips. The only exception is if I leave town I might do an in-town side trip on the way home. (In town = Fountains Hills. Small town on the outskirts of Phoenix Metro area.

The e-bike makes this more practical by reducing uphill effort, speeding long trips, and making carrying more stuff less effortful in general.

How many miles can it go on one kWh of electricity? What can it carry?

I use mine to travel to other towns and into rural areas, so it's very useful regionally.

e-beach said:
Well, to quote Milton Friedman, greed is good.....

The irony with Milton telling the truth is that the most capitalistic entities among us are also the ones most manipulative of the population in aggregate and also most eager to use the force of state to control society. It's neither capitalists, socialists, nor communists that are the problem per se, but the fact that we live in a global oligarchy run by extremely wealthy parasites and their cronys that force us to pretend we're in a Democracy, therefore "legitimizing" their rule over us, as they appropriate for themselves the majority of any surplus wealth generated by the collective labor of an entire civilization.

Something he got wrong was that society's advancements are not mostly made out of economic self-interest. Altruism has been a massive driver of the collective innovation of civilization, which is only enabled with leisure time away from a daily grind. The more that the common person is treated as a peasant and is expected to work to enrich someone who is already rich, the less time that person has to serve their own vision, a vision which could be an innovation, because they're instead serving some rich persons' vision of further improving that rich person's own economic self interest, lest the would-be innovator not be allowed to eat or have shelter, two things which along with many other necessities of living are locked down behind excessive paywalls relative to the cost to provide these things and otherwise controlled by this global oligarchy.

Innovation directed by someone's or some organization's economic self-interest often tends to first and foremost benefit themselves, followed by increasing the effectiveness of the military, the police to protect what they've accumulated, or otherwise providing novel means of spying upon, controlling, extracting from, and/or killing larger numbers of people, feeding more into the future necessity for more such "innovations" to continue to further their economic self interest.

The sort of economic/political structure we are living with is very much backwards from what human beings need in order to thrive in a manner that society can sustain for the vast majority of its members and for the equivalent of multiple human lifetimes. The results of a growing gap between the rich and poor especially when it comes to political power, increased environmental pollution and devastation, incipient global totalitarianism, and massive imposed disruptions in the functioning of any nation that doesn't toe the company line(Syria, Yemen, Cuba, and the Gaza Strip being excellent examples in the present day), all speak for themselves. Our "leaders" are universally unfit for the role, and we'd be better off directing our own lives without any rules, than by following rules that are as a whole truly and utterly against the public interest let alone the interests(including economic self interest) of most individual people, rules also greatly in favor of improving the interests(especially economic self-interest) of a small group of aristocratic control freaks.

In short, the self-determination that Milton praises capitalism for is denied to most of the population living under it to further the economic self-interests of the "most successful" capitalists, while the appearance(and illusion) of such self-determination being the governing factor in most people's lives remains well intact. The Communists and Socialists are no better, but at least they don't pretend to respect the right to self-determination. They merely pretend that the reason they're sacrificing your self-determination is to serve the common good instead, which is a lot more easy to see through and obvious, even if it may be every bit as corrosive to the interests of the human race on the whole.
 
Had a spooky discussion last night with a good friend of mine- he works for one of the 4 investment banks doing back-end coding, and he thinks the Fed will likely raise rates to ~20% like they did in the Carter-Reagan years to try and control the mass amounts of liquid cash they've printed. It's a simple and logical explanation, which is why I'm giving it a lot of weight and gravitas- and it's not like much is being done to fix the housing crisis right now anyway.

e-beach said:
Well, to quote Milton Friedman, greed is good.....
You may not know this, but in an eternal display of God's wonderful sense of humor soon after this came the Savings and Loan crisis, which tipped off a new economic recession soon before the end of Reagan and continued through Bush. His "Greed is Good" hypothesis keeps coming up right before new crashes and problems, last time I know was in ~2008 when it was asked why we were bailing out the same banks that caused the recession in the first place. Someone probably has responded with this in the last few years when asked why the upper 1% has still made money despite COVID recessions and (now) aftershocks.

The Toecutter said:
I have. Plenty of mistakes in that to learn from. But it changes nothing I've said.
Okay, I know when I'm talking to a wall- and especially, when someone whom ideologically I agree with is writing manifesto pages at me. You're not seeing the forest from the trees here my man; I can quote and list tons of young adults who screwed around with this shit in garage labs and scrapyards with public funding who never saw repercussions, now displaying plans for fission reactors or fun concepts. You're not asking why a law exists, even if it exists to keep you down; which means you're not gonna be focused about it when the time comes.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Had a spooky discussion last night with a good friend of mine- he works for one of the 4 investment banks doing back-end coding, and he thinks the Fed will likely raise rates to ~20% like they did in the Carter-Reagan years to try and control the mass amounts of liquid cash they've printed. It's a simple and logical explanation, which is why I'm giving it a lot of weight and gravitas- and it's not like much is being done to fix the housing crisis right now anyway.

The U.S. dollar's days as the world's reserve currency are numbered. The Fed needed to raise those rates again in the 90s, but didn't. 2008 was the consequence, but then the consequences of that were further delayed with 0% interest rates(or close to it) and constant money printing henceforth until very recently. There is nothing that can be done to stop what is unfolding as a result, if history is any guide. It comes down to who will get to bare the negative consequences that will manifest.

The derivatives market alone is enough to bury this system, and it is far from the only problem or even the largest problem inherent within it. The elephant in the room is the lack of sound/honest money. All problems are enabled by this, but those ruling us will never allow for this to happen in conjunction with a much-needed debt jubilee for all, for it will mean near total liquidation of the ill-gotten assets of those aristocrats responsible for this mess to pay for it, and with it, their power and control over the rest of humanity.

Okay, I know when I'm talking to a wall- and especially, when someone whom ideologically I agree with is writing manifesto pages at me. You're not seeing the forest from the trees here my man; I can quote and list tons of young adults who screwed around with this shit in garage labs and scrapyards with public funding who never saw repercussions, now displaying plans for fission reactors or fun concepts.

Has any of it over the decades ever been allowed to filter into improvements to our lives, first and foremost? What are the fruits so far of this? We have a massive series of crises headed our way with no guaranteed solutions, only ways to adapt, ways which are generally being denied to us via statute and the enforcement thereof. Even something as benign as ebikes are becoming more and more regulated, which prevents them from being a viable car substitute for most should the law be explicitly followed(especially in Europe where it has the most potential to displace car use of nearly anywhere else. Being limited to 15.5 mph/250W makes them next to useless for anything more than short trips when compared to a car).

You're not asking why a law exists, even if it exists to keep you down; which means you're not gonna be focused about it when the time comes.

There are many reasons that law exists. But it doesn't make it justified, right, or beneficial to society simply because it exists. Nor does it logically follow that one MUST follow it, especially given how inconsistently the rules are applied depending upon one's position within the socio-economic hierarchy. Nor does it follow that those who refuse to follow it deserve to be locked up, even and especially if they harm no one, given that there is no shortage of people and institutions who deliberately cause harm to anyone they want to worldwide without any repercussions for doing so.

When the time comes, successfully adapting to one's circumstances, regardless of what any law says, could be the difference between life and death. That spooky discussion you had last night encompasses just one facet of hundreds of different civilization-scale terminal problems that have been known about for decades and left deliberately unaddressed by our so-called leaders(elected and not), as they try to pin the blame on humanity as a collective whole to shirk responsibility for their self-serving decisions, hundreds of problems which are converging at crisis points very near to each other, almost simultaneously, where each by itself would be cataclysmic. Hopefully you can see that forest, because it is the biggest and most treacherous one the human race may ever face, and possibly the last one it may ever face.

Think of Planet Earth as a giant lifeboat deployed after a plane crash, with enough room for 100 adult people but if loaded with that many people, without any room for the supplies needed to live(analogous to the natural world). The hope is that the survivors can make it to a nearby island, because no one is coming to rescue them. We instead have 99 children who possess survival skills and an adult pilot on board the plane, leaving room for adequate supplies and barely some toys/frivolities. The pilot insists on keeping the whole lifeboat for themselves while keeping not just their supplies and toys and frivolities, but then take's the children's toys and frivolities even when knowing that the lifeboat doesn't have space for it all. This pilot then straps explosives to themselves and points a gun at everyone else to get them to obey, under threat of shooting any challengers and destroying it all should he lose the fight. None of the children ever tried to fight, for daring to do so was widely considered "wrong", and two of the children themselves sided with and defended the pilot, simply because the Pilot was the one adult in charge and for no other reason. This pilot then, with the help of those two who sided with him, one-by-one throws the children overboard. The pilot shoots one of the remaining children. The last child who remains is then overpowered and thrown overboard. The pilot then takes the loaded boat leaving the remaining supplies adrift, letting everyone else drown because everyone was too scared to act under the threat of that one pilot either detonating the explosives or shooting any challengers. This pilot also exceeded the boat's carrying capacity by overloading it with toys and frivolities. In fact, this one pilot overloaded the boat so much that it started to sink, the section holding their supplies sinking first, dooming themselves as well to the same fate they doomed all the children to. The pilot makes it to the island, but with no supplies, and no one to help them survive, he dies of dehydration, but even were that not a problem, he'd have died of starvation, and even if that weren't a problem, all of the toys and frivolities that cluttered the island resulted in the plants and wildlife getting sick and dying. Afterward, there are no more people, as all have perished, the result of vast majority meekly refusing to fight that one man with the gun and explosives plus his two sychophants, even to survive. To add insult to injury, the pilot deliberately crashed the plane, leading to this mess, when everyone entrusted the pilot to get them to safety. The children never got to the island they needed to get to in order to survive or even had the chance to grow up to find their rightful place in the world, for that chance was forfeited as soon as everyone who objected to the Pilot's decisions refused to fight the Pilot.

That is the path humanity is being led down. It won't have a happy ending. It never does, if history is any indication.
 
The Toecutter said:
The Fed needed to raise those rates again in the 90s, but didn't. 2008 was the consequence, but then the consequences of that were further delayed with 0% interest rates(or close to it) and constant money printing henceforth until very recently. There is nothing that can be done to stop what is unfolding as a result, if history is any guide. It comes down to who will get to bare the negative consequences that will manifest.
No it's not. The crash of 2008 was caused by banks making subprime predatory loans to people who couldn't pay them in a Ponzi scheme, while at the same time deregulation allowing them to speculate on the housing market. When the former went tits-up, it took out the latter- and literal trillions of dollars suddenly evaporating had massive aftershocks.

Has any of it over the decades ever been allowed to filter into improvements to our lives, first and foremost?
What 'thing' are you specifying? If it's public funding, your smartphone's capacitative touch screen and google were all founded upon, and ran on public funding for years until they were either licensed or made a public company, respectively. If it's reactors, OPEN100 is apparently doing Nigera's nuke plants and their reactor is open-source.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-01/transcorp-energy-plans-nigeria-s-first-nuclear-power-plants
https://www.open-100.com/
There was also a kid whom I used to follow, who at 20 made his own plans for a sodium-cooled reactor design as apart of his college graduation project. I'll have to find him tho.

Even something as benign as ebikes are becoming more and more regulated, which prevents them from being a viable car substitute for most should the law be explicitly followed
I know of only 2 cities in the US that are attempting to regulate eBikes (I don't even know if they're *legally* successful, many try similar laws with cars but fail all the time), and there's no way a cop can prove your speeding unless they actually track you via radar gun. Otherwise they have to seize and impound your bike and prove it's capable of way more than a city statue for "power levels", but even then some controllers now have a "legal mode" that can be switched on.

There are many reasons that law exists. But it doesn't make it justified, right, or beneficial to society simply because it exists.
Let me explain what I mean in a different way- where I live, I have a law in my city that claims nobody can have a windmill on their property that's less than an acre in size. I'd like to have a small one- if only as a fun project from a washing machine motor built into a silent VAWT out of junk- but eventually I'll likely get in trouble or it'll be seen. If that happens- or if I join local leadership- I'll try to get it removed from the books, but I'll have to learn who made it in the first place and why. Why? Because I change my message and my tactics based on whom I'm fighting. A braindead boomer who thinks green energy is apart of the gay agenda is going to act, and react, completely differently from someone who grew up with windmills and remembers their families spinning so hard in a storm it was vibrating the window panes.

Again, I agree with you ideologically but you're still preaching. If you want a law changed or anything acted upon, you need to start learning whos your enemy, what their goal is, why they have it, how they'll attempt to achieve it, how they message... you're falling into the leftie trap of writing walls of text and diatribes instead of planning, unifying, and operating. You want to fork fat American assess out of trucks and vans, and get serious bike infrastructure to save this planet? Then this particular place and discussion is ironically, the last place to be.
 
The Toecutter said:
wturber said:
I now use my bike or e-bike for essentially all in-town trips. The only exception is if I leave town I might do an in-town side trip on the way home. (In town = Fountains Hills. Small town on the outskirts of Phoenix Metro area.

The e-bike makes this more practical by reducing uphill effort, speeding long trips, and making carrying more stuff less effortful in general.

How many miles can it go on one kWh of electricity? What can it carry?

I use mine to travel to other towns and into rural areas, so it's very useful regionally.

How far it can go depends on how fast I go. If I travel at a moderate pace of around 20 mph which equates to level 2 on the KT controller most of the time, I can go about 55 miles on a kWH (based on a 56 mile trip that I measured fairly carefully) or 17.87 Wh/m. Assuming I have 100% of the nominal capacity of my battery pack, that means I have a range of about 70 miles. Even though I've taken good care of my batteries, I'd assume that I have maybe 75% of their nominal capacity at best right now.

When I was commuting 32 miles/day round trip, I'd run at level 3 most of the time with level 4 or 5 for some hill climbs. That let me go 23-25 mph most of the time. That probably moved my power consumption into the 25-30 Wh/m range or a total range today of about 30-35 miles at that pace.

As for "practical" range I find that anything past 20 miles starts to cut into my time in a significant way as compared to using a car. Also, long trips usually means driving further into the more densely populated areas of the metro area and that requires more route planning in order to stay relatively save (avoid 40 mph+ cars). Most out my long trips are 30+ miles and would occur late at night and/or during rush hour traffic. So this is when I use the car. That said, I am seriously re-examining how important these trips (mostly table tennis) are."

I have a standard size milk crate on the back and a decent sized front basket. I also carry an "emergency" lightweight and foldable drawstring backpack. So that means four or five bags of groceries depending on what I've got to carry and how crushable it is. I can handle decent sized watermelons and a fair bit of watermelons or soda if needed. My never-ending cargo bike build should be able to double or triple that when (if) complete.

This is my bike getting the batteries topped off at a nearby table tennis venue.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94360&start=25#p1472867
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Even something as benign as ebikes are becoming more and more regulated, which prevents them from being a viable car substitute for most should the law be explicitly followed
I know of only 2 cities in the US that are attempting to regulate eBikes (I don't even know if they're *legally* successful, many try similar laws with cars but fail all the time), and there's no way a cop can prove your speeding unless they actually track you via radar gun. Otherwise they have to seize and impound your bike and prove it's capable of way more than a city statue for "power levels", but even then some controllers now have a "legal mode" that can be switched on.

Depends on what you mean by "regulate." There are at least three cities in my state that have passed laws that "regulate" ebike usage.

The "People for Bikes" system of three e-bike classes - their so-called model legislation has been largely adopted in most (37?) states.
https://www.peopleforbikes.org/topics/electric-bikes

Overall, even though it has significant flaws, this legislation has generally worked to increase e-bike use. After all, it was created primarily as a tool to help promote more e-bike sales. Better law could have been crafted. But it may have been harder to get passed.

The general points of contention are things like limitations on power and how fast the bike can go before it transitions from being an unregistered and uninsured bicycle into a registered and insurance required motor vehicle. Some people want 50 mph electric motorcycles with no need to register, license or insure. That's unlikely to happen. That said, if you ride your ebike more like a bicycle, you can probably go faster and skirt some of the classification technicalities because most LEOs don't really care until/unless you start disrupting traffic or do something that looks particularly dangerous.
 
Huh, I didn't know about those, thanks! I had checked my state(s) laws not too long ago and it word-for-word claimed that if a rear wheel could be driven via pedals (and it was 2 wheeled) the vehicle was a bicycle of some form.

wturber said:
When I was commuting 32 miles/day round trip, I'd run at level 3 most of the time with level 4 or 5 for some hill climbs. That let me go 23-25 mph most of the time. That probably moved my power consumption into the 25-30 Wh/m range or a total range today of about 30-35 miles at that pace.
You're making me see if I can bike the ~13 miles to my job as well; my issue tho, is I typically take interstate to work and it's a straight shot, while the bike trail mapper on google is quoting me an hour and a half of normal riding(!) through multiple neighborhoods. Of course that's on a common machine, and not one that can hold even 15MPH for several miles.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
........Someone probably has responded with this in the last few years when asked why the upper 1% has still made money despite COVID recessions and (now) aftershocks.

.....

Speaking of humor.

Why?

Well to quote Clarence Boddicker : "Think about it, chum. Good business is where you find it."
 
Hillhater said:
..
.”wake me up when these become commercial at a scale that could provide a practical storage system for a RE based National Grid system !”
So, any predictions ?
It seems my simple question has been too much for a sensible answer to be offered..
So i will take that as Sodium ion being another “nice try....but no cigar”. solution for National scale utility back up in the forseable future ! :roll:
 
Hillhater said:
Have you ever heard of the expression. “Crowd mentality”, or “Sheepls”
Hint,... its the opposite to independent thinking !

The above message brought to you by the Koch brothers.
 
Yes, interest rates are going up finally but they are not taking the tariffs off imports. The fed was going to start raising rates 5 years ago at a slow rate to stop the economy from getting to hot. They replaced that chairman with a more compliant one and kept the rates at 0% or peddle to the metal. Then Covid, liquidity dumped like gas on a fire. Loss of workers with money. Now we want normal. This is the new normal, just stay strapped in for a bit longer. Get away from Gasoline it's going to stay high for a few years.
 
speedmd said:
Another econo box disrupter to hit the roads this year. Target is Sub 10K $$. I want one. Lumin "Corn"!
jfmyt0ob7cto_800.jpg

Goes on sale this week. $9500 USD for the 300 KLm model. Starts @ $7300.
https://carnewschina.com/2022/06/10/changan-lumin-corn-launched-in-china-with-301-km-range-and-7300-usd-starting-price/
Slide-16_9-3-9-1068x601.png
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
You're making me see if I can bike the ~13 miles to my job as well; my issue tho, is I typically take interstate to work and it's a straight shot, while the bike trail mapper on google is quoting me an hour and a half of normal riding(!) through multiple neighborhoods. Of course that's on a common machine, and not one that can hold even 15MPH for several miles.

Right. Google maps for bikes tends to assume something around a 14MPH average speed. If your ebike can do 25MPH or more, you can probably count on a real world trip speed of 18-20MPH depending on lights etc. My 16 mile trip was about 50 minutes in and about 55 minutes going home - downhill vs. uphill. I'd bet you can get to work in about 45 minutes. Some people find that bike commuting is faster if they live in areas that suffer a lot of traffic congestion during rush hour.

I used Google maps to figure my route, but did it manually. I just looked for paths that used residential or residential artery streets and heavily favored streets with 35MPH or lower speed limits. Bike paths were considered a plus. When I thought I had a good scheme, I then surveyed the roads using the satellite image view. I think my final step was to ride the route on a weekend. You could also scout via car unless part of the route is dedicated separate bike path.

BTW, my bike route was about 2 miles longer than my car route because the car route used a major street that ran at an angle that gave a favorably shorter distance. The bike route was dominated by right angled streets.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Huh, I didn't know about those, thanks! I had checked my state(s) laws not too long ago and it word-for-word claimed that if a rear wheel could be driven via pedals (and it was 2 wheeled) the vehicle was a bicycle of some form.
You need to make sure you read all the pertinent laws. There may have been something where any vehicle with more than X horsepower/watts, or Y engine displacement made it a motor vehicle and subject to further regulation. Most states have some kind of moped legislation since mopeds were a kinda new thing 50 or so years ago. Mopeds would meet the description of a bicycle based on our description. Seems unlikely that your state has no moped law.
https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Moped_Laws:_United_States

Arizona had motorized bicycle laws even before they adopted a version of the PFB 3-class model legislation. I think that's typical.
 
Back
Top