Have an idea and no shop?

mdd0127

100 kW
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
1,084
If you've ever thought, "If I had a shop I could build ....", here's your chance.

I finally got my shop all setup and running and I really need to bring in some income over the next couple of months. Basically, I got out of our property maintenance business earlier this year to focus on building an electric bike prototype with some investors. Setting up the shop has taken about three times longer than I thought it would so now I'm staring winter in the face, have exhausted my savings and build budget, and have no income. I don't need much to keep moving forward but nothing is definitely not cutting it! This is kind of a non-profit offer. I'm not trying to make a full time business out of this because building the bike is my number one goal. I just need to make a few extra bucks for a heater and insulation for the shop, a small metal lathe, fuel for the generator, argon, and a little to put towards basic living expenses over the next three months. This is a limited time offer. There's no part time work in my area and I really just need to survive long enough to get the prototype done.

I have learned a lot on Endless-sphere and would like to contribute in every way I can. I figured that some people on here might need some parts made and might not have a workshop of their own. So here's the deal: Let me know what you want built. I'll build it, send you pics, then you pay for it. I've bought and sold a few things through the forum but definitely need to prove my skills in the fabrication department so I wouldn't want any money until the part was completed satisfactorily. I'm talking about the small things that make builds easier like sprocket adapters, motor mounts, hall sensor mounts, etc. I don't want to step on anyone's toes so if it's something you can get from another reputable vendor, you should get it from them. I'm talking about helping with those one off pieces that make weird builds easy but there's not enough demand for mass production and having a machine shop make the piece would be too expensive. I have a 4 axis CNC mill, a 160A TIG welder, and a bunch of grinders, sanders, and stuff.

I can make parts from 6061 aluminum, stainless steel or mild steel. Other materials are possible but not stocked. I specialize in parts from matchbox size to shoebox size but sometimes bigger stuff can be made with creative setups. It will be easier if you have CAD drawings of your part, but I can make drawings and write code from a napkin sketch if necessary.

Another service I'd like to offer is soldering/assembly. If you bought something in kit form and are dreading putting it together, let me know. I have years of electronics repair experience, good eyes, a steady hand, and I'm inexpensive!

As far as costs go, I'm thinking of basing my estimates on WAY less than half of standard machine shop rates. This is only possible because of the low overhead of my shop(small tools, solar power, small space), and my minimalist needs. For example, I would be happy to spend a day making an awesome CNC sprocket adapter or extended bottom bracket to sell for somewhere in the $50-$75 range. Most machine shops would charge more than this per hour. I am willing to do this because I want to stay in the shop and focused on my bike build as much as possible and the low costs are my way of expressing my gratitude. I could focus on other means of making income but they are all very time consuming and would require putting the bike build completely on hold. Building a few parts here and there is my only part time option.

If you need something made SOON ;), please just ask!

P.S. I definitely appreciate the ability to use the forum to advertise for this. If there's a way I can contribute a portion of the proceeds or anything, please let me know. Also, feel free to move this to the appropriate section. I couldn't figure out where it belonged. Thanks!

DCFC0002.jpg
 
Cool portable shop, man!

My recommendation to you is to get into making RC / chain drive stuff on your own. An easy chain drive system would make hubmotors obsolete. The cyclone system seems to suck pretty bad but there is definitely a niche for a system like that that is:

A. reliable
B. can use some off the shelf parts, or bits and pieces from another vendor on here.
C. can use high efficiency RC motors
D. doesn't cost arm/leg/1st born :)
 
Simple E-bike "fuel gauge"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22675&p=331814#p331814

Jeremy's Picaxe throttle-signal translator, allows RC ESCs to use a common hall-throttle.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12196&start=45#p314666

Sometime over the next few months I will likely make some of these if I have to, but I'd really prefer to just buy them. I believe there are many others that would buy them too.

Also, I have seen posts where several builder have added a custom mount and 3 hall-effect sensors to an RC motor. I believe there is a very big market for a plug-and play kit, with the 63mm Hobby King motors being the likely biggest seller (although the 50mm and 80mm motors do have many fans).
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=15686
 
neptronix said:
Cool portable shop, man!

My recommendation to you is to get into making RC / chain drive stuff on your own. An easy chain drive system would make hubmotors obsolete. The cyclone system seems to suck pretty bad but there is definitely a niche for a system like that that is:

A. reliable
B. can use some off the shelf parts, or bits and pieces from another vendor on here.
C. can use high efficiency RC motors
D. doesn't cost arm/leg/1st born :)

Thanks for the compliment on the shop. Someday, I plan on doing a better build thread about it somewhere. It's been quite an undertaking and I was told it was impossible by all of the experts, specifically at my budget level but there it is.

I agree 100% with the rc drive thoughts! I am working on a design with a motor, NuVinci, slipper clutch, controller, and batteries all mounted in a triangularish box with adjustable frame clamps but even that's a big project if it's done right. I thought it would be cool on the big steel framed 29ers and those Surly fat tire bikes when combined with a freewheeling crank.

In short, there are a million things I could make that there might be a market but I'm not in the position to do any additional complicated product development/research/marketing at this point. I'm pretty immersed in building a sub 75lb,, lipo powered, 7kw downhill bike from scratch. I definitely do, however, have time do design and manufacture a few parts here and there and due to my financial current financial situation, they must be parts with a predetermined and committed buyer.
 
spinningmagnets said:
Simple E-bike "fuel gauge"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22675&p=331814#p331814

Jeremy's Picaxe throttle-signal translator, allows RC ESCs to use a common hall-throttle.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12196&start=45#p314666

Sometime over the next few months I will likely make some of these if I have to, but I'd really prefer to just buy them. I believe there are many others that would buy them too.

Also, I have seen posts where several builder have added a custom mount and 3 hall-effect sensors to an RC motor. I believe there is a very big market for a plug-and play kit, with the 63mm Hobby King motors being the likely biggest seller (although the 50mm and 80mm motors do have many fans).
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=15686

The fuel gauge is a god send! I wouldn't want to profit from someone's idea like that unless I could properly license it upfront which I'm not in the position to do. I really don't want to get into buying things for resale or developing plug and play kits at this point but if you need a little chunk of metal or two in a very, very specific shape, I'm your guy ;)

I'm more than willing to assemble any little electronic devices too. I'd just prefer that the kits or designs be purchased from the people that created them.
 
Mounting trays for SLA batteries.
Yes not the best battery but many people are stuck using them and have horrible options for mounting them.
So, well built trays to hang from the cross, vertical, and angle bar of a typical diamond frame, and/or at the front of the bike like a basket. I'm sure you could sell quite a few of those.
 
You guys are awesome. I love all of your ideas and will definitely add them to the pile of things I'd like to make available someday.

So far though, the point of this thread is being missed. I'm not looking for new product lines to get into. I'm offering my time and tools to help others complete their custom builds.

If for instance, if you purchased a fuel gauge kit and would like me to assemble it and make a custom cnc case for it, I can do that. If you purchased a throttle interface and need it assembled with a custom trigger throttle, I can do that too. If you need some battery trays made for SLA's, send me the drawings, I'll send you an estimate and we'll go from there.

:D
 
That's what I wanna know! I got a guy overseas who said he will make my tourqe arms, but a guy in country could save me big wompom! Plus I have an idea for a mirror mount I want, battery box I need, and an idea how far I will have to send components to have them soldered as I can't do that at all. Also, NICE MOBILE SHOP MAN! I hope you have adequate ventilation in there! And a fire extinguisher! :lol:
Brian L.
 
I made my own battery box. And this seems to be a problem a box that's fits a ping or headway under the top bar. A box for a bms with fan ? I hung My controller under the battery box. But sould have a better place for the bms it's in a under seat bag hung on the side of the seat post sideways. But would fill safer if I it had a better fix.
 
Great offer i shall keep it in mind when theirs items above my ability or means to make and/or total lack of interest to do myself, i'm
thinking your going to get some delivers from TPPacks.com very soon and some bucks to assemble the kits
i need from MR GGoodrum if your interested ;) ? If you can get the info on those
fuel gauge doodas Mr Jeremey Harris has designed i would be keen on a couple of those also...

I wish you well i think you will get a heap of work from forum members once you start producing a few items and word gets out
about it :)

KiM

p.s The full blown downhill bike sounds like the go to, i will follow that build with a lot of interest when it gets rolling..
 
You have a wonderful mobile shop, and I certainly wish you luck with any endevours you focus on. I agree with AJ, it would be helpful for you to start something, even if its not what you want to end up doing. Just about anything would help you develop a reputation.

I'm not sure if anyone is making rear disc brake flange-to-Extron adaper spider. Matt is already making a really great spider for attaching chainrings to the disc brake flange, but I believe if anyone wants to use an Extron #219 sprocket, each builder has to fab his own.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23218&start=0
 
Custom fab.? Wish I could do it all myself for little cash?? Alas it is not too be at least for me, but that's before I found Endless-sphere and it is here where I find my ash!
 
- A chain drive system. Something like a DIY version of the Panasonic set up that's a step on from what Cyclone offer.

- Battery cases. I'd really like to see a folded aluminium sheet case for Ping's standard sizes that mounts on the water bottle mount on most bikes. With either a clamp or a Nutsert in the seat tube to stabilise it.

- A controller for RC motors that works like the well known controllers for hub motors but can handle the high rpm.

- A productised version of the friction roller being built here. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22187

- Customised CAs with an external current limit control.

- Customised Turnigy or Watts meters with a plug and play remote shunt.
 
A trailer with room for sleeping, eating, bathing, with power assist, that breaks down with cotter pins into pieces small enough to be carried up a flight of stairs into an appartment!
Brian L.
 
mdd0127 said:
The fuel gauge is a god send! I wouldn't want to profit from someone's idea like that unless I could properly license it upfront which I'm not in the position to do. I really don't want to get into buying things for resale or developing plug and play kits at this point but if you need a little chunk of metal or two in a very, very specific shape, I'm your guy ;)

I'm more than willing to assemble any little electronic devices too. I'd just prefer that the kits or designs be purchased from the people that created them.

Just go ahead. I chucked the design into here for anyone to use - if you build some for people then everyone wins, you and those who don't want the hassle of a DIY job. Feel free to do some value engineering on it too, I just used stuff that was to hand when I built mine and it could be built for a lot lower cost with a bit of optimisation.

Same goes for anything else I post here, as far as I'm concerned it's all public domain the instant I've hit the 'submit' button. I'd build things for people myself, but I just don't have the time. Whoever said that I'd have plenty of time for projects as soon as I retired was wrong - I've been working my backside off every day for weeks, doing all the household jobs that have just been waiting for me to have some free time.........................

Jeremy
 
I'd consider building batteries, batteries, batteries.

This entire industry is founded on batteries (IMO) and we all could use LifePo4 units that are designed to fit within the frame triangle on the average ebike. Keyed and hard cased units would also be a nice change from the standard shrink tube covered units currently on the market today.

I would also suggest that you consider the following:

1. Look into picking up a part time building maintenance job while you're starting out with your new business.

2. Remain steadfast in your efforts to keep overhead (and/or any other "start up" costs) as low as possible until business picks up (adopting a "build to order" business plan could, of course, be of great help with this).

3. Do not hamper your business by overextending your line of credit.

BTW, I (years ago) started a mobile auto electrical business that was mainly centered around stereo, alarm, and car phone sales, service, and installations. This business did well enough (within a year or so) to allow expansion into a good sized 2 bay shop (we eventually rented an additional 12' x 12' " trailer based office within another year). However, I was able to maintain a steady "backup" income by working as a (subcontract) auto mechanic during the first 16-18 months.

My wife and I successfully operated this business for 5+ years. I might also add that my wife held a full time job while working for a well known construction company during this time.

I'd warn you about the very long hours that running a business requires but, I'm sure that you're well aware of this already.

We bid you well in your business endeavor.
 
Do the fuel gauges and I'll take 3, and front the parts cost for 10, which I'm sure you will quickly sell, especially since 4 are already sold.

If you'd prefer to stick with metal work, then I'd suggest proper clamping torque arms as a tidy small business. You could do some small batches of generic, and also offer custom fit service for a higher price. Please no skimping on the thickness. It's not about how strong the steel is, but the strength of the small surfaces of the torque arm and axle, so a bigger surface area is better. 1/4" thick for low power rigs and at least 3/8" for higher power. I've got some ideas for a generic that would be superior to any of the store bought ones. Shops like Ebikes.ca would probably be interested in some batch orders at the right price.

John
 
Lessss said:
haven't missed the point it's 11:30 pm where I am at and am thinking on a few things.

where are you located?

Awesome! I can't wait to see what you come up with. I'm in SW Colorado, USA and would really prefer to everything through the mail. It takes a special vehicle to get up my road.

RallySTX said:
That's what I wanna know! I got a guy overseas who said he will make my tourqe arms, but a guy in country could save me big wompom! Plus I have an idea for a mirror mount I want, battery box I need, and an idea how far I will have to send components to have them soldered as I can't do that at all. Also, NICE MOBILE SHOP MAN! I hope you have adequate ventilation in there! And a fire extinguisher! :lol:
Brian L.

I'm local. Send me a drawing and I'll build a couple for you.
When I'm making smoke or fumes in the shop, I open the windows, crack the back door and wear a respirator. I also have two fire extinguishers and a voltage controlled fan that vents the battery box.



999zip999 said:
I made my own battery box. And this seems to be a problem a box that's fits a ping or headway under the top bar. A box for a bms with fan ? I hung My controller under the battery box. But sould have a better place for the bms it's in a under seat bag hung on the side of the seat post sideways. But would fill safer if I it had a better fix.

Another great idea! If you need a custom box for your BMS, just send me a sketch!


AussieJester said:
Great offer i shall keep it in mind when theirs items above my ability or means to make and/or total lack of interest to do myself, i'm
thinking your going to get some delivers from TPPacks.com very soon and some bucks to assemble the kits
i need from MR GGoodrum if your interested ;) ? If you can get the info on those
fuel gauge doodas Mr Jeremey Harris has designed i would be keen on a couple of those also...

I wish you well i think you will get a heap of work from forum members once you start producing a few items and word gets out
about it :)

KiM

p.s The full blown downhill bike sounds like the go to, i will follow that build with a lot of interest when it gets rolling..

Ha! I think about sending you stuff for my build all of the time. I messed up a little piece I was trying to make on the mill last week and immediately thought, "Kim would have done it with a grinder and it would have looked better!" I'm sending back the mill stepper controller box to get repaired today. I thought I was doing something wrong but there's something wrong with the power supply or something. It keeps losing channels/axes. It looks so simple inside but I didn't want to void my warranty so back it goes.

I love assembling Gary's stuff! He's on it with the BOM's and puts together the finest electronics kits I've come across. I would be honored to put them together for you. I also need to take a closer look at the fuel gauge thing. Looks like that'll be a hot item.

I'll be able to post some stuff about the DH bike build but since this is the first thing I've ever done with investors and they'd like to make a profit, I can't put everything up here.....no matter how bad I want to. I'll definitely figure out a way to keep everyone updated to some degree without compromising the integrity of the project.


spinningmagnets said:
You have a wonderful mobile shop, and I certainly wish you luck with any endevours you focus on. I agree with AJ, it would be helpful for you to start something, even if its not what you want to end up doing. Just about anything would help you develop a reputation.

I'm not sure if anyone is making rear disc brake flange-to-Extron adaper spider. Matt is already making a really great spider for attaching chainrings to the disc brake flange, but I believe if anyone wants to use an Extron #219 sprocket, each builder has to fab his own.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23218&start=0

Thanks for the compliments on the shop! I know that once the first item is created and shipped out that things will get rolling. I really just need one person to send me a drawing and it's on.

If anyone needs a disc brake to Extron adapter, I'd love to build a few. With things like chain lines though, I'd definitely need a drawing to get the proper offset. There are too many variables to just start producing things.


RallySTX said:
Which reminds me I will most likely need a custom rear and front disk brake caliper mount for the Runt.
Brian L.


Cool. I could get started on those tomorrow. Send me a drawing whenever you're ready.


jbond said:
- A chain drive system. Something like a DIY version of the Panasonic set up that's a step on from what Cyclone offer.

- Battery cases. I'd really like to see a folded aluminium sheet case for Ping's standard sizes that mounts on the water bottle mount on most bikes. With either a clamp or a Nutsert in the seat tube to stabilise it.

- A controller for RC motors that works like the well known controllers for hub motors but can handle the high rpm.

- A productised version of the friction roller being built here. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=22187

- Customised CAs with an external current limit control.

- Customised Turnigy or Watts meters with a plug and play remote shunt.


More awesome product ideas! I may have to start a whole separate business and just start cranking this stuff out for everyone! Again though, at this point, I'm looking for custom orders.


AussieJester said:
jbond said:
- Customised Turnigy or Watts meters with a remote plug and play remote shunt.


I would buy that immediately if it was priced fairly.

KiM



Well, first I'd need to find a non hobbyking supplier for the watts meters. I'll definitely be looking into ALL of this stuff!



Dingo2024 said:
hi, any chance of being able to cut me a set of planetary gears for a cyclone gearbox........I think this will help quite a few out :wink:

thanks and good luck,

Ian :D

Gears are pretty tricky to setup and generally need to be cut with expensive custom cutters. This is an area where I really can't compete with mass production. Also, I really don't have a way to make much improvement on materials or anything and you're only going to get so much strength out of a small gear like that. I think my time would probably be better spent designing a system to replace the cyclone kits instead of trying to improve them.


Jeremy Harris said:
Just go ahead. I chucked the design into here for anyone to use - if you build some for people then everyone wins, you and those who don't want the hassle of a DIY job. Feel free to do some value engineering on it too, I just used stuff that was to hand when I built mine and it could be built for a lot lower cost with a bit of optimisation.

Same goes for anything else I post here, as far as I'm concerned it's all public domain the instant I've hit the 'submit' button. I'd build things for people myself, but I just don't have the time. Whoever said that I'd have plenty of time for projects as soon as I retired was wrong - I've been working my backside off every day for weeks, doing all the household jobs that have just been waiting for me to have some free time.........................

Jeremy

I'd like to figure out a way to compensate you for using your design if I build them. I know that everything you post is public domain and have a huge amount of respect for your knowledge. Maybe if I sell enough of your doo dads and send you some $$$ for coming up with them, you can hire someone to tackle those household jobs for you. If brains like yours weren't distracted with everyday tasks, we'd all probably be flying carbon neutral cars around!

FMB42 said:
I'd consider building batteries, batteries, batteries.

This entire industry is founded on batteries (IMO) and we all could use LifePo4 units that are designed to fit within the frame triangle on the average ebike. Keyed and hard cased units would also be a nice change from the standard shrink tube covered units currently on the market today.

I would also suggest that you consider the following:

1. Look into picking up a part time building maintenance job while you're starting out with your new business.

2. Remain steadfast in your efforts to keep overhead (and/or any other "start up" costs) as low as possible until business picks up (adopting a "build to order" business plan could, of course, be of great help with this).

3. Do not hamper your business by overextending your line of credit.

BTW, I (years ago) started a mobile auto electrical business that was mainly centered around stereo, alarm, and car phone sales, service, and installations. This business did well enough (within a year or so) to allow expansion into a good sized 2 bay shop (we eventually rented an additional 12' x 12' " trailer based office within another year). However, I was able to maintain a steady "backup" income by working as a (subcontract) auto mechanic during the first 16-18 months.

I'm afraid that battery packs will have to be built to order too. There are just too many options to build a one for all solution. That's probably why it hasn't been done yet. I am willing to build custom packs for people though. I would prefer that the batteries come from somewhere...anywhere...other than Hobbyking though.

1. Before this whole bike build nonsense, my wife and I ran a successful property maintenance company. Since I've pulled off and focused on the bike though, she's been having to turn down most of the calls we get because they're two person jobs. We tried to hire employees, paid them $20/hour, but they did little stupid stuff like throwing cigarette butts everywhere and half assing jobs. We decided it wasn't worth the trouble anymore so she's looking for any work she can find. We're in SW Colorado and the economy has basically already collapsed here. There are no jobs.

2. Build to order is the only way I can afford to go right now. I have enough working capital to order parts and supplies for the first project and that's it. I can't order or build anything that I don't have a buyer for immediately. I am a firm believer in keeping overhead low. It drives me nuts when I need a good deal on something and the only places I can get it have so much overhead that the price is artificially high.

3. We do NOT deal with credit or banks. It's a morals thing. I can't see, no matter how hard I look, why getting in debt is such a popular thing. I think it's worse than crack. I keep a bank account with $22 in it just to cash checks. I really prefer postal money orders for all transactions. This also goes back to the low overhead thing. Banks MAKE things expensive.

I've been in the car audio and alarm and mechanic business on and off for years. Even had mobile service for a while. Unfortunately, car audio and alarms are an extravagance around here and no one fixes their cars until they're totally dead. In the big city, I was always able to find work but around here, people try to pay their bills with oatmeal. I'm still doing mechanic work for friends here and there but not often enough to pay the bills.


John in CR said:
Do the fuel gauges and I'll take 3, and front the parts cost for 10, which I'm sure you will quickly sell, especially since 4 are already sold.

If you'd prefer to stick with metal work, then I'd suggest proper clamping torque arms as a tidy small business. You could do some small batches of generic, and also offer custom fit service for a higher price. Please no skimping on the thickness. It's not about how strong the steel is, but the strength of the small surfaces of the torque arm and axle, so a bigger surface area is better. 1/4" thick for low power rigs and at least 3/8" for higher power. I've got some ideas for a generic that would be superior to any of the store bought ones. Shops like Ebikes.ca would probably be interested in some batch orders at the right price.

John

I'm on the fuel gauge thing. I'll post a completed price once do some more research.

I'd love to make some torque arms. If you've got a specific design in mind, send it over and I'd be happy to build you a few.
 
Here's a rough scetch for the right side tourqe arm for the Spoiler. Done in 1/2 inch stainless, with a thru bolt that's threaded at the bottom for the pincher.The bend angle is 130 degrees. the top blt about ten mm. The thru bolt I will let you decide what fits best and gives the most clamping force.

Measures from left side vertical going clockwise are, 2" x 2 3/8 x 3 1/4 x 7/8 x 5 1/8 x 1 3/4 in.
Thickness is 3/8 in. note the vertical pinch hole that should be threaded in the bottom and sized for 3/16 machine bolt grade 8. The top chainguard hole will be 7/16 from either side and 9/16 from the top. With the dropout located from the bottom up at 3/4 to 1 1/8 in. 10 mm wide and 1 9/16 in. deep.

Left tourqe arm could be the same but will require a small relief about half way up the stem to clear the brake caliper and will require drilling a hole in the frame for the upper bolt. And I was at this all day!


outline.jpg



PHOT0002-2.jpg
 
Let me know if you want it in milimeters and if you want it more exact. I will need two of those within the next month or so. I have another bike that will need a different design that I will begin shortly.
Brian L.
 
RallySTX said:
With the dropout located from the bottom up at 3/4 to 1 1/8 in. 10 mm wide and 1 9/16 in. deep.

I understand everything else but this part. The most important details of this part are the distance from the upper bolt to the center of the axle slot, and the angle. I really want everything to fit perfectly on the first try so if you could make a dimensioned drawing, I can make the parts. It doesn't need to be to scale or anything, just a sketch with dimensions. When working with metal, the phrase "about" should be avoided because even a few thousandths difference will make parts not fit. It looks you already have most of the info. It's just a little easier to look at a dimension on a drawing than translating descriptive sentences.

Left tourqe arm could be the same but will require a small relief about half way up the stem to clear the brake caliper and will require drilling a hole in the frame for the upper bolt. And I was at this all day!

Again, with a drawing, I can get the relief in the exact right place.

For a price estimate, I'd say $125-150 for the pair if they have to be stainless. Thick stainless is pricey, is harder to work with, and eats up tooling. At 1/2" thick, it's probably big time overkill too. If you could make due with aluminum they'd be in the $75-100 range for the pair and would be plenty strong enough. I could even polish and clear coat them for you. As far as turn around time. I'd say a week from when you order. I'll have to order stock either way.
 
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