Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Yeah measured them to 35mm
Bearings are crap, winding job is about as crappy as on mxus, so all in all, nothing special about this motor besides thin lams.
 
Nice one by leaf to offer a Mavic 319 rim Allex. I've never had a reading from the thermistor with my cav3 even when changing thermistor type and changing calibration. Just 0v. Its connected correctly, but there must be something going on in the motor. My bearings have a slight amount of play in them after 2 months of off-roading. Last longer than the Mac hub bearings though. I didn't replace them initially as I thought SKF were quality?? I've noted the sizes by cowardly duck earlier in the post and will replace them and thermistor in the next few months.

Cowardlyduck: Do your abc replacement bearings show any sign of side to side play yet?

On another note my replacement program cable arrived and I FINALLY gave my leaf 5t the amps it needs. Set my em3ev 9fet 4011 to 50a 125a Phase. Drawing 3400 watts max on the CAv3 with 16s Lipo. Hauls along now, very happy, doesn't get as hot as I expected (side covers) but I keep a close eye on this. I can restrict power on the go with a 3 speed switch when doing technical stuff or if it gets too hot ---> had some 40 deg Celcius days lately here

For comparison sake with a Mac10T I replaced this with (I wrote about this a few pages back) on a test hill I reached 45km/hr at the crest with 16s / 2000w. Same power with the leaf 42km/hr. Leaf Increased to 3000w = 45km/hr half way up and 52km/hr at the crest turning a heavier / larger diameter / draggy DH tyre. With 3400w probably be a little more. Top speed is 61km/hr tucked down, I rarely hit past 50. The minion 2.5 is very draggy but grippy off road. Our nasty trails / rocks here destroyed x2 Maxxis Larsen TT's within a few hundred meters. Its that fat hubs fault :)

Mike
 

Attachments

  • reign 2.jpg
    reign 2.jpg
    86.9 KB · Views: 3,067
__mike said:
Cowardlyduck: Do your abc replacement bearings show any sign of side to side play yet?
No issues yet, but I haven't put a huge amount of km's on the leaf yet...right now it's off the bike.
I've used the same bearings on plenty of other motor's without issue though, so don't think you'll see any issues using them.

Cheers
 
Allex said:
Anyone got the thermistor working with Adaptto?
I choose NTC10K in the menu but it shows 0°C even efter I warm the stator up to 70°C
I tried every combo before giving up and swapping it out for a KTY sensor....if you've got the motor open I suggest quitting while your ahead and doing the same.

Cheers
 
GmagNeato said:
Kodin said:
.. At the power levels the Leafbike motor can run, it's pretty damn efficient compared to most of what's out there.

Proven truth. Not just on paper. I have done none of the cooling mods mentioned. I typically run at an average of 1500w with frequent peaks exceeding 2000w, in a 26" wheel with the 5T, and I have NEVER seen temps exceeding ambient, even on 7-10 mile rides on 70 degree days

I will be pushing more power through it soon, and have decided that if I do any cooling mods it will be the ferrofluid. Imo, it seems like the biggest return for the smallest investment of all the mods I've seen.

Kodin, if you don't mind, what are your power levels/wheel size and what speeds are you seeing with your 5T? Have you modded it at all?

I haven't actually spun my motor under power yet. Laced it into a 21x1.6" motorcycle rim, and since then I've taken the whole motor apart and haven't had time to make a new shaft for it to run a cassette sprocket cluster Leafbike shipped me from their 1000W model. One of these days I'll get around to it, but with all the stuff going on lately that'll be a bit iffy for now.
 
Allex said:
Mike, nice build you have there, really neat and clean!

Thanks

Cowardlyduck said:
__mike said:
Cowardlyduck: Do your abc replacement bearings show any sign of side to side play yet?
No issues yet, but I haven't put a huge amount of km's on the leaf yet...right now it's off the bike.
I've used the same bearings on plenty of other motor's without issue though, so don't think you'll see any issues using them.

Cheers

Excellent, will order a set & a new temp probe
 
Kodin said:
I haven't actually spun my motor under power yet. Laced it into a 21x1.6" motorcycle rim, and since then I've taken the whole motor apart and haven't had time to make a new shaft for it to run a cassette sprocket cluster Leafbike shipped me from their 1000W model. One of these days I'll get around to it, but with all the stuff going on lately that'll be a bit iffy for now.

Understood. Thanks for the response Kodin.
 
I have a Xofo XFV(K) 500W 36V, but running it on 48V and 20A controller. I think the motor is a copy of the more familiar Bafang CST 500W. I have it in a 28" wheel and it runs about 40km/h with my 95kg.

If I want another more quiet, stronger and faster bike, will this motor be a good choice or is the difference to low? Maybe on a 26" wheel. I was thinking of 50-60km/h top speed but will not drive that fast all the time. I have seen different graphs here but I am a little slow. What motor version and battery voltage combo would be the best for my needs? Maybe with a adaptto mini-e (if thats not overkill).
 
Swe said:
I have a Xofo XFV(K) 500W 36V, but running it on 48V and 20A controller. I think the motor is a copy of the more familiar Bafang CST 500W. I have it in a 28" wheel and it runs about 40km/h with my 95kg.

If I want another more quiet, stronger and faster bike, will this motor be a good choice or is the difference to low? Maybe on a 26" wheel. I was thinking of 50-60km/h top speed but will not drive that fast all the time. I have seen different graphs here but I am a little slow. What motor version and battery voltage combo would be the best for my needs? Maybe with a adaptto mini-e (if thats not overkill).

I've been running 52v (nominal) in a 26" wheel with 48v 40A controller with 50-60km/h speeds. Motor is a 5T. Motor is barely warm after rides over 5 miles long.
 
Hi guys,

I am new to the forum and have been following this thread for a little while. I have a few questions for you fellas. I see most of you run a 26" wheel with either the 4t or 5t windings. I have two 29er mountain bikes one is a HT and the other FS. I am thinking really seriously of turning them into E-bikes. I like the simplicity of the Hub motor vs other setups such as mid drive which is one reason why this motor interests me. I want to run them both with single speeds for even greater simplicity. I was thinking about using a 32/18 gearing with the Leaf Motor. In case I run out of battery or something happens I want to be able to get back without killing myself lol. I am not sure this is the best gearing solution so anyone with single speed experience your input would be greatly appreciated. I would be really interested to hear from anyone running a single speed with this leaf motor!

I would be using the Hardtail for mainly a commuter bike with the occasional camping trail ride thrown in the mix a few times a year in Central Oregon. The Full Suspension would be more of the primary trail rider when we go camping with the HT being the backup or extra my son or friend could use. I am looking for a 38-40mph top speed on flats. I guess other info that would be important to know is that when we go camping the rides are always less than 15mi with many stops along the way. However they do consist of hills and mountain terrain. We usually start at an 4,500 ft elevation and end up climbing to around 6,000 ft or more in I would say a 5 mile stretch. We are not aggressive riders at all and I would say more on the beginner level so to speak. We are also average in size 6'0 and under 185lbs being the heaviest these bikes would encounter.

With that all said
#1. Would the Leaf motor be a good candidate and hold up to these riding conditions?
#2. Would the 6t winding be acceptable for this application or would I need to move up to a 7t or greater winding etc?
#3. Do you guys think a single speed would be ok and is the gearing I am considering doable?

Thanks in advance GH..
 
Swe said:
I have a Xofo XFV(K) 500W 36V, but running it on 48V and 20A controller. I think the motor is a copy of the more familiar Bafang CST 500W. I have it in a 28" wheel and it runs about 40km/h with my 95kg.

If I want another more quiet, stronger and faster bike, will this motor be a good choice or is the difference to low? Maybe on a 26" wheel. I was thinking of 50-60km/h top speed but will not drive that fast all the time. I have seen different graphs here but I am a little slow. What motor version and battery voltage combo would be the best for my needs? Maybe with a adaptto mini-e (if thats not overkill).
The motor is the same whether it's a 4T (Higher speed) or 5T (More Torque) or the 1000, or 1500w model. The idea being, to pick the power level you need or you'll end up paying for battery power you may not need (lmao ;) which if on a budget is important too. Either-way the graph shows the motor to be over 90% efficient @approx 1kw so if you only want 40 mph, then a 5t in a 26" is fine, otherwise go with the faster 4T in the 26" as I currently have, at 50-60km/h, you're unlikely to have any heat issues.
You also say you want
another more quiet, stronger...bike,
The quiet will also depend alot on the type of ESC you choose. The Sine wave controllers are much quieter than the Infineon sq wave type, Lyen 18fet that I use, BUT I like the low growl of the leaf with it, def suits the higher speeds it gives, and better than my near silent, turnkey Kayman Flash+ which does 25mph (eventually ;) on throttle alone, but without a sound to warn pedestrians in advance of my presence :( which isn't always great. The strength you ask for, is here in this motor, but imo you also need a frame that can handle it's power well, plus Torque arms. It may not be a cromotor/qs, or even a MXUS but it's def "strong" enough... @least for me (And I accidentally went 61mph on a test drive, while tuning it :shock: )
Having said all that, I'd recommend you get the 4T (standard) 1500w motor in the 26", run on either 48v or 52v batt, and a 50a max controller, that way it can all be bought 4 a reasonable price. Imo you don't need a mini-e, that is overkill (pricewise) on this, (but also quality, so shuld last you and be usable on later builds too,) Sabvoton units are sinewave too, and programmable, plus on aliexp, they're pretty cheap if bought direct from China. To date, based on users reports, I've no reason to think that they aren't quality units either, so if I needed a sine wave unit, that's what I'd prob get.
Whateva you choose, lotsa luck on ur build :)
 
Welcome Greenhornet.
I would suggest using a derailleur if possible. The 11T gear available on most DNP freewheels allows comfortable pedaling under motor power up to about 50kph as long as you have at least 46T front chain ring. Then the higher gears (18, 24,28,34T) allow pedalling to get home if something breaks (and it will), or you run out of juice.
At the very least, I would suggest a front chain ring with multiple chain rings so you can manually shift the chain if needed. I would suggest something like a 34T and 48T to cover both powered and un-powered usage.

Cheers
 
Cowardlyduck said:
Welcome Greenhornet.
I would suggest using a derailleur if possible. The 11T gear available on most DNP freewheels allows comfortable pedaling under motor power up to about 50kph as long as you have at least 46T front chain ring. Then the higher gears (18, 24,28,34T) allow pedalling to get home if something breaks (and it will), or you run out of juice.
At the very least, I would suggest a front chain ring with multiple chain rings so you can manually shift the chain if needed. I would suggest something like a 34T and 48T to cover both powered and un-powered usage.

Cheers

Hi Cowardlyduck,

Thanks for the advice I did not think about a front derailleur only. I recently read about a 2 speed up front where you click your feet to engage not sure what its called but that might be another option. Well it sounds like its doable then. Now just need some advice or direction on which leaf motor option is best for my situation. I was also thinking about getting 2 bricks of Multistar batteries to start with. They are these = http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__55805__Multistar_High_Capacity_Lightweight_8S_12000mAh_2C_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

Not sure if this would be overkill for my situation but I want to have a descent reserve so I am never overtaxing them to much. Any opinions on these or anyone running anything similar with there Leaf motor?

Thanks again Cowardlyduck for your input :D

GH
 
greenhornet said:
Hi Cowardlyduck,

Thanks for the advice I did not think about a front derailleur only. I recently read about a 2 speed up front where you click your feet to engage not sure what its called but that might be another option. Well it sounds like its doable then. Now just need some advice or direction on which leaf motor option is best for my situation. I was also thinking about getting 2 bricks of Multistar batteries to start with. They are these = http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__55805__Multistar_High_Capacity_Lightweight_8S_12000mAh_2C_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

Not sure if this would be overkill for my situation but I want to have a descent reserve so I am never overtaxing them to much. Any opinions on these or anyone running anything similar with there Leaf motor?

Thanks again Cowardlyduck for your input :D

GH
No worries.
This possibly isn't the right thread to be having a general discussion, so I'll keep it short.
There are a few 2 speed bottom bracket options out there, none of which are cheap. I have a Schlumpf drive on my Stealth Fighter which does this and it's great, but to buy one on it's own is about $600 last time I looked. The cheaper option is the ATS speed drive, but needs a special tool to install and still isn't cheap.
On my Recumbent (with 20" rear wheel) I run a 60T chain ring up front to an 11T rear so I can still pedal at ~45kph and it works. I left the original 46T chain ring on there as well so that when I need to pedal home unaided I can manually push the chain down to the smaller chain ring by hand as it has no front derailleur.
For Leaf motor choice, I would suggest the 4T since it has the best copper fill and therefore the best heat handling characteristics. Just make sure your running an adequate controller and it will be fine.
I run my Leaf 4T using an my Adaptto Mini-E on my Fighter. I disagree with ABritInNY about it being overkill. For a lightweight off-road Direct Drive setup the Mini-E + 4T Leaf motor combo is great and cannot be beaten IMO.

For batteries, the MultiStar's are an easy option, but only if you are fully aware and prepared for the risks of using LiPo. Otherwise I would suggest one of the newer pre-assembled 18650 pack's from Cell man (aka EM3ev).
Those Mutlistar packs are also only 2C, so 24A if you run 2 in series. I would suggest 24A is possible not enough, but it depends on your use case. Also remember that HK cells are generally over rated, and it is often said you need to divide the C ratings by 2-4 to get the accurate long term usable rating....which in this case means you'll be lucky to get 10A continuous without damaging the cells.
Anyway, if your keen on the HK LiPo, at least get the 20AH packs, or double up with 2X 12AH packs in parallel + 2 in series.

Cheers
 
does anyone know what thermistor is used in the leafmotor 1500w? I ask because I have a KT series controller (similar to what is sold with leafmotor kits) with an extra wire in the halls connector for a temp sensor and the kt-lcd3 display that has motor temperature on it's display. I want to add a thermistor to my motor (not a leafmotor) that's compatible.

I asked peter from leafbike if I could buy a spare from him, still waiting on a response.

Has anyone measured the resistance of the thermistor at different temperatures, maybe I could find a similar thermistor online somewhere?
 
No worries.
This possibly isn't the right thread to be having a general discussion, so I'll keep it short.
There are a few 2 speed bottom bracket options out there, none of which are cheap. I have a Schlumpf drive on my Stealth Fighter which does this and it's great, but to buy one on it's own is about $600 last time I looked. The cheaper option is the ATS speed drive, but needs a special tool to install and still isn't cheap.
On my Recumbent (with 20" rear wheel) I run a 60T chain ring up front to an 11T rear so I can still pedal at ~45kph and it works. I left the original 46T chain ring on there as well so that when I need to pedal home unaided I can manually push the chain down to the smaller chain ring by hand as it has no front derailleur.

I looked up the 2 speed drive I had seen and it was the Metropolis Patterson Transmission Crankset = http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-25417-metropolis-patterson-transmission-crankset.aspx?variantID=78188&gclid=CO-yqIqm1ssCFUWTfgodkNIChA The price seems pretty fair I might pick one up and play around with it.

For Leaf motor choice, I would suggest the 4T since it has the best copper fill and therefore the best heat handling characteristics. Just make sure your running an adequate controller and it will be fine.
I run my Leaf 4T using an my Adaptto Mini-E on my Fighter. I disagree with ABritInNY about it being overkill. For a lightweight off-road Direct Drive setup the Mini-E + 4T Leaf motor combo is great and cannot be beaten IMO.

Ok awesome thanks for the advice the 4T it is.

For batteries, the MultiStar's are an easy option, but only if you are fully aware and prepared for the risks of using LiPo. Otherwise I would suggest one of the newer pre-assembled 18650 pack's from Cell man (aka EM3ev).
Those Mutlistar packs are also only 2C, so 24A if you run 2 in series. I would suggest 24A is possible not enough, but it depends on your use case. Also remember that HK cells are generally over rated, and it is often said you need to divide the C ratings by 2-4 to get the accurate long term usable rating....which in this case means you'll be lucky to get 10A continuous without damaging the cells.
Anyway, if your keen on the HK LiPo, at least get the 20AH packs, or double up with 2X 12AH packs in parallel + 2 in series.

Again thanks for your advice I will check out EM3ev packs and do some research.
 
Debating between this motor, mxus v3, or qs motor laced into 19" Moto rim... All will go 40mph but the leaf is the lightest and can do it on 12s, but will need a lot of ah.
 
This damn Leaf, something was rubbing against the covers, opened it against and saw that it was hall wires. One of the middle legs is a bit exposed! This is only after a bit of tuning with adaptto controller. No wonder people have all sort of problems with blowing resistors and controllers when something like this happens. Now I need to find away how to press the wires down between the windings.
 

Attachments

  • DSC06996.JPG
    DSC06996.JPG
    124.2 KB · Views: 2,602
Allex, don't want to start ww3 but wanted to make sure you knew there's a 29mm Mxus v2. Would be interested to compare with ferrofluid. The leaf is a great motor albeit their shipping costs are high. Im interested for the same reasons I suspect you are. I'm assuming you're looking for a motor for beta frames? Cheers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
That's an interesting problem Allex.
I've only had that happen a few times. Once when a replacement axle wasn't centred like the original, and once when the bearing wasn't seated fully inside the side cover on the opposite side pulling everything across.
You might wanna double check the bearing is seated right for this issue.

I generally apply lots of epoxy to the wires to hold them tight against the windings also.

Cheers
 
All good now!

Here is a quick comparison sine vs square, pretty noticable diff I would say :)
At the beginning I am wacking the throttle to make a lot of noise.
[youtube]y1rDws9kywA[/youtube]
 
Back
Top