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Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
Samd
10 MW
I've got some dynamometer tests I did of the two controller types. The sine with FOC is really smooth for torque down low - in the sort of situation where you are bogged at low rpm climbing a hill.
The square wave has huge spikes in the torque below 20kph as the phases lose sync repeatedly.
Think I'm gonna throw a 29mm V2 in my beta first Allex with a 50a FOC.
The square wave has huge spikes in the torque below 20kph as the phases lose sync repeatedly.
Think I'm gonna throw a 29mm V2 in my beta first Allex with a 50a FOC.
Allex
100 MW
Sure Sambo, I would try that too if I had one.
Allex
100 MW
Does 1500W 35mm stator version have 23 poles? Forgot to take a picture while I had the motor apart.
Samd
10 MW
I'm 99% sure it'd have to - that format is like the heineken of stators in china and there must be 100 factories churning now.
Dauntless
100 TW
Samd said:
Not sure I understand.This being the champagne of bottled stators? Or that they're often counterfeited?
dmwahl
10 kW
I think he meant they're super common. Maybe like the Bud Light of America?Dauntless said:
I had some points I wanted to confirm about cassettes and frames with 135mm dropouts.
I read a few pages back that someone said they fit a 9 speed cassette but didn't recommend it . Am I correct to assume it is because the frame is too stretched? I read that 9 speed cassette would need 145mm dropout, however standard frame dropout width is 135mm.
So in summary for the 1500w version ,
9 speed cassette is too big for 135 mm dropout (may be possible but needs more than the recommended amount of stretching on a 135 mm dropout)
7 speed cassette is do able with 135mm dropout
If 9 speed cassette doesn't work well with 1500 version, am I correct to assume that the threading on the cassette side can't be customized to make the 9speed fit because there is simply no room for this larger cassette between the frame and the hub motor?
If anyone has experience with the 1000w leaf motor:
Will 9 speed cassette work with 1000w with slight stretch since supposedly 7 speed works?
Update: leaf says 7 speed cassette will fit with 1000w version. They also confirm previous reports of only 2mm phase wires being possible.
I read a few pages back that someone said they fit a 9 speed cassette but didn't recommend it . Am I correct to assume it is because the frame is too stretched? I read that 9 speed cassette would need 145mm dropout, however standard frame dropout width is 135mm.
So in summary for the 1500w version ,
9 speed cassette is too big for 135 mm dropout (may be possible but needs more than the recommended amount of stretching on a 135 mm dropout)
7 speed cassette is do able with 135mm dropout
If 9 speed cassette doesn't work well with 1500 version, am I correct to assume that the threading on the cassette side can't be customized to make the 9speed fit because there is simply no room for this larger cassette between the frame and the hub motor?
If anyone has experience with the 1000w leaf motor:
Will 9 speed cassette work with 1000w with slight stretch since supposedly 7 speed works?
Update: leaf says 7 speed cassette will fit with 1000w version. They also confirm previous reports of only 2mm phase wires being possible.
Kodin
1 kW
Also motor shaft is tiny with cassette version. I really don't like the design but cassettes can only accommodate a certain size regardless of what you may want. Biggest I've been able to bore into my cassette unit was 14mm, and I think the "stock" shaft is like 10mm. Eesh. Tempted to just go round shaft on the cassette side and mod the brake side to be as large as possible. (In my case, 30mm). Waiting on some 2.5" steel rod to make a mandrel I can press into my side cover so I can bore out the outer diameter now. (Lathe chuck isn't accurate enough and collet chuck only goes to a max of 1" diameter)
MLC
1 mW
Hi All,
I'm a newbie about to start a Leafbike 1500w build. I've been lurking for a couple weeks and have learned lots (enough to be dangerous, anyway). Thanks to Neptronics and all contributors for sharing what you've done with and learned about these Leafbike hubs. Really great stuff.
I'll post what I learn (and ask questions) here, if that's appropriate.
Here's my plan. Advice, suggestions and constructive criticism are welcome and encouraged:
- Donor: 2011 GT Avalanche MTB off Ebay. Aluminum so definitely need torque arm(s). Not a lot of CrMo around that isn't old.
- Plan for pedal drive: 2x7; 52+36 on crank - no front deraillure (move chain down by hand when I break down);11-32 DNP in back (not looking forward to lining this up with my 8 gear deraillure!)
- Leafbike 1500 watt 5t. No temp sensor. No plan to thrash it...yet.
- Lyen 18 FET 4110 controller. Its over kill but no need to open it and start bolstering traces. No plan to run much over 60A (for very short periods) for now.
- Either 14S/7P GA's (Luna triangle) (but they don't seem to be available now?) or 14S/9P 30Q's (EM3ev triangle) (Just read the thread on the 30Q testing...great info!)
- CA 2.3 DP
- 26" MTB wheels; disk brakes f+b (hope I can keep them in the back!!) w/ 2.3" Big Apple tires. The 2.3" tires are cuz this is a HT plus I'm heavy[240], the batt is heavy, the motor is heavy, my stuff can be heavy...
The result (I hope) will be:
- Reliable commuter; 16 miles each way; back roads @15 to 35 mph
- I plan to help as much as possible (without working up a sweat, of course!)
- Reasons for 5 turn stator: (1) No desire to go over 40 on this bike (I have a motorcycle) (2) to reduce heat when dealing with hills+weight from a stop or low speeds and (3) get out of traffic's way a little quicker at lights and stop signs. I think a 24" rear tire would look good and help in this area but it was too much bike re-work.
- For hot rodding on weekends (like dragging against my brothers 50cc smoker build) I hope to push 60 or so amps and get 40 mph(+?) for a few seconds.
I have stuff ordered. I'll post what I learn. Can't wait to dig in! (...said the newbie to the DIY ebike build...hhhmmmwwwaaahhahaha!)
MLC
I'm a newbie about to start a Leafbike 1500w build. I've been lurking for a couple weeks and have learned lots (enough to be dangerous, anyway). Thanks to Neptronics and all contributors for sharing what you've done with and learned about these Leafbike hubs. Really great stuff.
I'll post what I learn (and ask questions) here, if that's appropriate.
Here's my plan. Advice, suggestions and constructive criticism are welcome and encouraged:
- Donor: 2011 GT Avalanche MTB off Ebay. Aluminum so definitely need torque arm(s). Not a lot of CrMo around that isn't old.
- Plan for pedal drive: 2x7; 52+36 on crank - no front deraillure (move chain down by hand when I break down);11-32 DNP in back (not looking forward to lining this up with my 8 gear deraillure!)
- Leafbike 1500 watt 5t. No temp sensor. No plan to thrash it...yet.
- Lyen 18 FET 4110 controller. Its over kill but no need to open it and start bolstering traces. No plan to run much over 60A (for very short periods) for now.
- Either 14S/7P GA's (Luna triangle) (but they don't seem to be available now?) or 14S/9P 30Q's (EM3ev triangle) (Just read the thread on the 30Q testing...great info!)
- CA 2.3 DP
- 26" MTB wheels; disk brakes f+b (hope I can keep them in the back!!) w/ 2.3" Big Apple tires. The 2.3" tires are cuz this is a HT plus I'm heavy[240], the batt is heavy, the motor is heavy, my stuff can be heavy...
The result (I hope) will be:
- Reliable commuter; 16 miles each way; back roads @15 to 35 mph
- I plan to help as much as possible (without working up a sweat, of course!)
- Reasons for 5 turn stator: (1) No desire to go over 40 on this bike (I have a motorcycle) (2) to reduce heat when dealing with hills+weight from a stop or low speeds and (3) get out of traffic's way a little quicker at lights and stop signs. I think a 24" rear tire would look good and help in this area but it was too much bike re-work.
- For hot rodding on weekends (like dragging against my brothers 50cc smoker build) I hope to push 60 or so amps and get 40 mph(+?) for a few seconds.
I have stuff ordered. I'll post what I learn. Can't wait to dig in! (...said the newbie to the DIY ebike build...hhhmmmwwwaaahhahaha!)
MLC
Kodin
1 kW
Looks like you've got it all right so far. 5T seems to have the most copper fill so that's good, temp sensor doesn't cost anything to add in but they don't have a history of working with CA's so you'd have to swap it out anyway. Everything else looks good to me. Sounds like a solid plan for a build. 
No. Get a CA 3 with temp rollback and other goodies. A very different product than the 2.3 for an extra $30.MLC said:
Get a temp sensor in the motor. Even if there are difficulties with the installed sensor (?), it's easy to change it compared to pulling new wiring to get a sensor wire installed.
cycborg
1 kW
Not a problem as long as long as the shifter and derailleur are the same brand. Der's aren't actually x-speed, the thing is how much they move laterally for a given length of cable pull. The shifter is what determines the amount of pull and thus needs to be matched to the cog spacing, meaning it needs to be a 7-speed shifter. DNP shares spacing specs with Shimano and SRAM so as long as shifter and der are both Shimano or both SRAM, you should be good.MLC said:
That's a lot of battery. Better too much than not enough, of course, and if you want to pull a lot of amps on the weekends you'll need a lot of p's. But for reference, I used to do a 20-mile RT commute on a 12s 10 Ah pack and had no problem charging just once per day. You can make it even smaller if you charge on both ends.
Feel free to PM me if you'd like some local help.
Kodin
1 kW
teklektik said:
That IS a good point... You literally will not be able to get an extra wire into the harness if you want to add a temp sensor later on, but you'll have to replace the sensor internally if you want it to play nice with a CA3. Either way, pay the extra money for a version 3; better features by far.
MLC
1 mW
Really great feedback guys (non-gender specific). Thanks!
Kodin - Thanks for the feedback and encouragement. See below regarding temp sensing...
Teklektik - Thanks for the good advice. You're probably right about the CA3 but alas I pulled the trigger on the CA2. My thinking is that I wouldn't use most of those pig tails so the CA2 would be neater and sufficient. I'll just be watching I/V/P for now and may want to log in future (which I believe the CA2 can do with some extra bits). I don't see myself pushing the temp like a lot of you guys do. Just a quick sprint (3kW for 30 seconds) once in a while and no mountains. I can now see how much overkill the 18FET controller is, but it should run cool (and so, long, hopefully).
Cyborg - Great advice.
- I'm now looking at a 14S/6P 3Q (17.7Ah). If I'm not mistaken, I can push that pack close to 60 amps-3kW (my desired short-burst max) without hurting it...much. Also, your real world experience has eased an acute case of range anxiety.
- Anyone one know why the triangles are gone at the Lunacycle site?
- The gears/derailleurs are the original Shimano. Front says Altus and the rear, Deore. Probably junk but it sounds like I can use them and they'll have light duty. Just need to switch the 46T crank wheel with a 52 or something (so I can help at 25mph). Should be interesting since the last bike I worked on had a banana seat and sissy bar.
The thing I'm dreading now is going through the phase and hall wire combo's. I found the spread sheet to help with this but has there been any advancements in this area? Maybe all the Leaf 1500's/Lyen combo's hook up the same way(?). Any thread/pics/collaboration in this area?
All - let me know if you want me to look into anything as I move forward. Motor and controller coming in the next few days. Must figure out the HongKong banking system before I can order the battery...sheesh. "Before" image attached...I think.
Thanks,
MLC
Kodin - Thanks for the feedback and encouragement. See below regarding temp sensing...
Teklektik - Thanks for the good advice. You're probably right about the CA3 but alas I pulled the trigger on the CA2. My thinking is that I wouldn't use most of those pig tails so the CA2 would be neater and sufficient. I'll just be watching I/V/P for now and may want to log in future (which I believe the CA2 can do with some extra bits). I don't see myself pushing the temp like a lot of you guys do. Just a quick sprint (3kW for 30 seconds) once in a while and no mountains. I can now see how much overkill the 18FET controller is, but it should run cool (and so, long, hopefully).
Cyborg - Great advice.
- I'm now looking at a 14S/6P 3Q (17.7Ah). If I'm not mistaken, I can push that pack close to 60 amps-3kW (my desired short-burst max) without hurting it...much. Also, your real world experience has eased an acute case of range anxiety.
- Anyone one know why the triangles are gone at the Lunacycle site?
- The gears/derailleurs are the original Shimano. Front says Altus and the rear, Deore. Probably junk but it sounds like I can use them and they'll have light duty. Just need to switch the 46T crank wheel with a 52 or something (so I can help at 25mph). Should be interesting since the last bike I worked on had a banana seat and sissy bar.
The thing I'm dreading now is going through the phase and hall wire combo's. I found the spread sheet to help with this but has there been any advancements in this area? Maybe all the Leaf 1500's/Lyen combo's hook up the same way(?). Any thread/pics/collaboration in this area?
All - let me know if you want me to look into anything as I move forward. Motor and controller coming in the next few days. Must figure out the HongKong banking system before I can order the battery...sheesh. "Before" image attached...I think.
Thanks,
MLC
Attachments
Lyen = Infineon with a few mods (sometimes) and branding.MLC said:
All my Infineon based controllers worked with my Leaf motor with matched phase colours and from memory either matched hall sensor colours or blue/green swapped.
Matching it all up is usually not that painful, the phases are almost always matched, then it's just the hall colours you swap around.
Cheers
MLC
1 mW
Great info. Thanks!
A last note on the V3 - as an FYI - not a hard sell:MLC said:
The V3 features that I believe are worth considering are: menu adjustments to eliminate throttle ZERO/WOT dead zones, throttle ramping to smooth getaways, and Current Throttle for much more manageable throttle response. These features go directly to improving ridability, particularly for non-technical riding with a fairly powerful bike. That said, the V2 can provide the same current-limiting 3-postion switch as the V3 (in lieu of the controller PWM-limiting 3-position switch) OR Current Throttle (although the throttle mod is not an out-of-box operating mode).
So - whereas the V2 is fundamentally a monitoring and limiting device, the V3 is a control device designed to play an active role in bike operation and can significantly alter the feel of the bike.
Anyhow, just some last thoughts about what that extra $30 might buy...
BTW: If you really don't want the ebrake, PAS, or temp connectors, you can simply unsolder them without affecting the warranty. An email to Grin Tech will get your V2 order changed w/o difficulty.
MLC
1 mW
Wow. I did want and think I'd get some ramping/response adjustment from the v2. And good point about just removing what I don't use. Lesson learned. Maybe I can work something out (package on way). Otherwise I might be adding a v3 to my B-day/Xmas/FathersDay/JustBecauseIDeserveIt - lists.
I really appreciate the follow up and its totally taken as intended. Very valuable in spite of my impulsiveness. Newbies read and learn!
MLC
I really appreciate the follow up and its totally taken as intended. Very valuable in spite of my impulsiveness. Newbies read and learn!
MLC
i am thinking of building a 1500w leafbike, does anyone know what kind of mountain bike will be suitable for this?
http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bike-conversion-kit/26-inch-electric-hub-motor-kit/newest-26-inch-48v-1500w-rear-hub-motor-bike-conversion-kit-987.html
also on their website they have stated that
"If the width of your tire / tyre is 2.1, 2.5 inch…(bigger than 1.95 inch)
Please note tire/tyre size when you place an order so that we can send a wider rim & fit for your wider tire/tyre.)"
so which tire/tyre size should i consider? I haven't got a mountain bike right now and i will need to purchase one so what kind should i go for...
http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bike-conversion-kit/26-inch-electric-hub-motor-kit/newest-26-inch-48v-1500w-rear-hub-motor-bike-conversion-kit-987.html
also on their website they have stated that
"If the width of your tire / tyre is 2.1, 2.5 inch…(bigger than 1.95 inch)
Please note tire/tyre size when you place an order so that we can send a wider rim & fit for your wider tire/tyre.)"
so which tire/tyre size should i consider? I haven't got a mountain bike right now and i will need to purchase one so what kind should i go for...
Allex
100 MW
Hello!
Justin corrected the information in the Simulator, the leaf 35mm is up and you can compare it to others!
Justin corrected the information in the Simulator, the leaf 35mm is up and you can compare it to others!
Wheazel
10 kW
I have realigned and retightened the spokes of my leafmotor rear wheel after 3600km of riding.
Did hit one major pothole that caused a flat last autumn, but mostly very gentle riding conditions for the wheel.
Spokes were lose enough to occationally make squeking sounds once per rotation.
If I have to do it again in the future, I will most likely get new thinner spokes.
If I would buy another leafmotor, I would lace the wheel myself.
Did hit one major pothole that caused a flat last autumn, but mostly very gentle riding conditions for the wheel.
Spokes were lose enough to occationally make squeking sounds once per rotation.
If I have to do it again in the future, I will most likely get new thinner spokes.
If I would buy another leafmotor, I would lace the wheel myself.
999zip999
100 TW
I would go with a wider rim if it fits in your frame. How much extra room do you have now ? What tire size do you have now ?
Wheazel
10 kW
Got plenty of room in the swing, as the bike in question is the custom cargo bike, but I already have a wide schwalbe big ben tyre. Its the 26x2.15 version, more "balloony" than expected.
Recently bought the widest mtb mudguards that sks offers (65mm) and they are a good fit. Cant really go wider tyre, and dont need it either.
The rim could be changed to something slightly wider in the future, but its still decent. Its a mavic xm319 offered by leafbike.
The only possible is that thick spokes are used (12g), that cant be tightened enough for this type of rim. Maybe the rear wheel would hold up better with better tightened thinner spokes, I am not sure.
The front wheel doesnt see as much stress as the rear, but that wheel havent shown any noticeable change in spoketension or alignment so far. (Homelaced with 14g spokes.)
Recently bought the widest mtb mudguards that sks offers (65mm) and they are a good fit. Cant really go wider tyre, and dont need it either.
The rim could be changed to something slightly wider in the future, but its still decent. Its a mavic xm319 offered by leafbike.
The only possible is that thick spokes are used (12g), that cant be tightened enough for this type of rim. Maybe the rear wheel would hold up better with better tightened thinner spokes, I am not sure.
The front wheel doesnt see as much stress as the rear, but that wheel havent shown any noticeable change in spoketension or alignment so far. (Homelaced with 14g spokes.)
that1guy
100 mW
It took a bunch of nagging, but i finally got the NTC thermistor (temp sensor) spec from Leaf.
Type = MF5A-4-60MM
R25 = 100k
B25/50 = 3950
I think some people reported their motor came with R25=10kΩ installed. But IDK if they actually measured it. Luke measured his, https://youtu.be/WZnYc654Nps?t=186 , it was 26kΩ while motor was hot. So it's probably a R25=100kΩ NTC. See this calc, http://www.electro-tech-online.com/tools/thermistor-resistance-calculator.php
Type = MF5A-4-60MM
R25 = 100k
B25/50 = 3950
I think some people reported their motor came with R25=10kΩ installed. But IDK if they actually measured it. Luke measured his, https://youtu.be/WZnYc654Nps?t=186 , it was 26kΩ while motor was hot. So it's probably a R25=100kΩ NTC. See this calc, http://www.electro-tech-online.com/tools/thermistor-resistance-calculator.php
