Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

[ZeroEm]

neptronix received a Leafmotor laced in a wheel, if remembering correctly he had to have it trued. After that I think it worked for him. His post is in this thread.

by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » Aug 21 2022 12:26pm

Do any of you lads trust Leafbike's wheel building skills? I'm thinking of just ordering one already wound into a 29" wheel but I don't know if they can be trusted.

Note: Mounted motors are ok for the price and labor. Ride it until issues arise then you can always build a better one.

 

[ZeroEm]

by Dunlop » Aug 21 2022 6:04pm

I would first see how much battery you can get on the Bike first. Took a look at your simulator setup and first thing that caught my eye is your two mile distance and 4ah battery. This if the first issue.

 

[calab]

Remember also that a hub motor laced in a rim will cost more in shipping due to the extra size and whatever added weight. Other places will often have a great price on a hub motor, controller or $0.01 throttles but they get you at shipping. Its been a great motor for me, I may even start getting the motor to break a sweat on my measly 1800w of wot power.

36v battery thats limited to 35a through the controller is 1280 watts.
Same generic cheap controller but 52v 40a Grintech battery, I could only assume is 52v of the battery but 35a of the controller is 1820w, unless the controller allows for over-current and for how long. I need it so my next battery is 52v 50a which Luna provides and buy a 52v controller of 60a, but then the bms of the battery would always be kicking in every day if not twice a day. 350-700 times a year. Wish I kept track of mileage, but the bms kicking in is probably nothing but batteries are expensive, but also to are 52v 60a controllers. I'd still much rather stress the controller then the battery. I shall spring for the programmable controller mate.

 

[electric_nz]

Leafbike laced my motor in a 26 rim and shipped for relatively cheap across the world. It has been perfect for 200 or so km. Rim is a Mavic, spokes are all well tensioned and it has stayed perfectly true so far despite some big bumps and potholes. Spokes are pretty fat looking and as a unit it looks very rugged, can’t see it breaking easily

 

[Rix]

by Dunlop » Aug 21 2022 6:04pm

I would first see how much battery you can get on the Bike first. Took a look at your simulator setup and first thing that caught my eye is your two mile distance and 4ah battery. This if the first issue.

Dunlop used the 66volt dewalt to see the numbers for speed. The beta frames can easily hold 21S6P of 18650 cells and 21s5P with 21700 cells. and that allows for room for the insulation and heat shrink. And if you are Cowardly Duck, you can add another parallel onto those numbers by running strip on top and sideways.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

Leafbike laced my motor in a 26 rim and shipped for relatively cheap across the world. It has been perfect for 200 or so km. Rim is a Mavic, spokes are all well tensioned and it has stayed perfectly true so far despite some big bumps and potholes. Spokes are pretty fat looking and as a unit it looks very rugged, can’t see it breaking easily

neptronix received a Leafmotor laced in a wheel, if remembering correctly he had to have it trued. After that I think it worked for him. His post is in this thread.

by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » Aug 21 2022 12:26pm

Do any of you lads trust Leafbike's wheel building skills? I'm thinking of just ordering one already wound into a 29" wheel but I don't know if they can be trusted.

Note: Mounted motors are ok for the price and labor. Ride it until issues arise then you can always build a better one.

Okay, so really just check the cost of shipping versus buying the parts yourself and having a shop do it- got it! Thanks!

 

[ZeroEm]

The motors that come already laced have thick spokes and don't tension correctly. Sometimes the rims are to cheap to hold up. Don't hear that as much anymore. Before shipping got expensive, getting one laced was the cheap route, good rims and spokes cost. If you are unable to lace your own wheel then another cost. Any mistakes another cost.

by CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING » Aug 23 2022 9:37am

Okay, so really just check the cost of shipping versus buying the parts yourself and having a shop do it- got it! Thanks!

 

[E-HP]

Before shipping got expensive, getting one laced was the cheap route, good rims and spokes cost. If you are unable to lace your own wheel then another cost. Any mistakes another cost.

This is very true. If you want to lace your own, you should first decide that quality matters to you, and then take a lot of time selecting components and doing measurements. Good spokes are expensive, and being a mm or two off could result in a big cost, and you may not find out until after you lace things up and identify an issue.

I ordered my Leaf with the wider 26" rim. The lacing looked decent and the rim was a decent rim, but between ordering and getting the wheel, I decided I wanted to go with 24", so I delaced the new wheel and relaced it with my very expensive rim and spokes. I still need to go back and replace some mangled spoke nipples that I messed up on since it was my first time, and tack on more shipping when I ordered more after the fact. Ugh. I just tried to ignore costs by focusing on the goal of having a quality wheel in the end.

Bottom line, doing it to save money isn't the right motivation.

 

[Bullfrog]

Some of the better spokes to use if you don't buy it already laced into a rim:

https://wheelbuilder.com/sapim-e-strong-single-butted-12-13g-spoke/

 

[Dunlop]

So I have been playing with the Motor Simulator quite a bit, to see if I can make up my mind on a few design parameters...
In my previous attempt, as Rix stated, I chose the 66V Dewalt from the list of available batteries purely for the "Speed" of 66V, which gave me a 4 mile range, as ZeroEm pointed out.

So here are a few comparative simulations (changing only one thing each time) which are starting to give me some direction:

3T vs. 4T , 66V battery, 100% Throttle in Voltage mode ===> 3T just has a nicer torque curve!!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=100&kv=17.49&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&kv_b=13.11&bopen=true

3T vs. 4T, 66V battery, @35MPH (Desired cruising speed) Throttle adjusted in Voltage mode ===> 4T Starts with just TOO much!!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=53&kv=17.49&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&kv_b=13.11&bopen=true&throt_b=70

At this point I am really leaning toward a 3T motor (Max copper fill, etc..) Now, figure out the battery!!!

Both 3T, 72V vs 66V, @35MPH (Desired cruising speed) Throttle adjusted in Voltage mode ===> +6V improves range by 6 miles??

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=120&hp=0&batt=cust_72_0.01_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_66_0.2_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=120&hp_b=0&bopen=true&throt_b=58&throt=48&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49

Both 3T, 66V vs 60V, 100% Throttle in Voltage mode ===> -6V, Top speed drops by 1.6mph but still over 50mph!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=100&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_60_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&bopen=true&throt_b=100&autothrot_b=false&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49

Both 3T, 66V vs 60V, @35MPH (Desired cruising speed) Throttle adjusted in Voltage mode ===> The extra 6V just doesn't add much!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=53&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_60_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&bopen=true&throt_b=58&autothrot_b=false&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49

I have seen it stated different times, that Kelly Controllers rate their controllers differently than other companies because they use motor amperage's????? I don't know what to do with this info, so the 100A continuous, and 240A max phase amps I used in the motor simulator are Kelly's advertised numbers for their KLS6018S???? Was that the right thing to do??

If the "custom controller" numbers used are correct, then I think the recommended 3T motor is the way for me to go!! As far as a battery choice, I think around 60V seems to meet my original stated requirements... A few less cells in series, might be able to be used for more range!! Which brings me to my Range question of the day...

Can anyone tell me how the real world range of their build compares to the range the motor simulator predicted before the build?? Or are there other tweaks to the motor simulator I could do to make the predicted range more realistic?? (Yes, I know I have not input any human power... I am going to consider that a bonus).

Thanks for following along!
Keith

 

[Bullfrog]

So I have been playing with the Motor Simulator quite a bit, to see if I can make up my mind on a few design parameters...
In my previous attempt, as Rix stated, I chose the 66V Dewalt from the list of available batteries purely for the "Speed" of 66V, which gave me a 4 mile range, as ZeroEm pointed out.

So here are a few comparative simulations (changing only one thing each time) which are starting to give me some direction:

3T vs. 4T , 66V battery, 100% Throttle in Voltage mode ===> 3T just has a nicer torque curve!!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=100&kv=17.49&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&kv_b=13.11&bopen=true

3T vs. 4T, 66V battery, @35MPH (Desired cruising speed) Throttle adjusted in Voltage mode ===> 4T Starts with just TOO much!!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=53&kv=17.49&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&kv_b=13.11&bopen=true&throt_b=70

At this point I am really leaning toward a 3T motor (Max copper fill, etc..) Now, figure out the battery!!!

Both 3T, 72V vs 66V, @35MPH (Desired cruising speed) Throttle adjusted in Voltage mode ===> +6V improves range by 6 miles??

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=120&hp=0&batt=cust_72_0.01_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_66_0.2_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=120&hp_b=0&bopen=true&throt_b=58&throt=48&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49

Both 3T, 66V vs 60V, 100% Throttle in Voltage mode ===> -6V, Top speed drops by 1.6mph but still over 50mph!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=100&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_60_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&bopen=true&throt_b=100&autothrot_b=false&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49

Both 3T, 66V vs 60V, @35MPH (Desired cruising speed) Throttle adjusted in Voltage mode ===> The extra 6V just doesn't add much!

https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=53&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_60_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&bopen=true&throt_b=58&autothrot_b=false&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49

I have seen it stated different times, that Kelly Controllers rate their controllers differently than other companies because they use motor amperage's????? I don't know what to do with this info, so the 100A continuous, and 240A max phase amps I used in the motor simulator are Kelly's advertised numbers for their KLS6018S???? Was that the right thing to do??

If the "custom controller" numbers used are correct, then I think the recommended 3T motor is the way for me to go!! As far as a battery choice, I think around 60V seems to meet my original stated requirements... A few less cells in series, might be able to be used for more range!! Which brings me to my Range question of the day...

Can anyone tell me how the real world range of their build compares to the range the motor simulator predicted before the build?? Or are there other tweaks to the motor simulator I could do to make the predicted range more realistic?? (Yes, I know I have not input any human power... I am going to consider that a bonus).

Thanks for following along!
Keith

Just a couple tid bits...

A. If you supply sufficient battery and phase amperage, the torque lines for all turns of a given motor will lay on top of each other. It is either your controller phase amperage or your battery amperage that are driving the shape of your torque curves and NOT the motor. All turns of a given motor are capable of the exact same torque per battery amp.

B. If you are going to make your own battery, no problem with the voltage you used. If you plan on buying your batteries, 52v/14s is by far the most common and available.

 

[thundercamel]

1. If your motor controller is set to draw 100 amps from the battery, you're going to have much more voltage sag/droop than the
0.02 ohms you entered in the simulator.
2. The range improved by 6 miles because the simulator is assuming that you have a 72 volt nominal (20s) times 22 Amp hour battery vs. a 66 volt nominal (18s) times 22 Amp hour battery. That would be a 1584 watt hour verses a 1452 watt hour battery.
3. The KLS6018S says it has a continuous motor current limit of 100 amps. That 100 amps you should be entering in the Phase Current Limit section, which is motor amps. I've never used Kelly controllers before, but I would guess that the Battery Amp limit is closer to 40 amps.
4. The predicted range values on the simulator are always far higher than what you get in the real world. This is because it assumes you're staying at exactly that speed forever. You start and stop in the real world, and the motor efficiencies drop to 0% the closer your speed gets to 0.

Are you planning to build your own battery?

 

[ZeroEm]

Did not wish to make it confusing. The Motor Simulator is fun to play with. To do a real life build would use equipment that you would expect to buy. It is unlikely you will use Dewalt's or any thing between 52V and 72V.

Winding of the motor that should be your last choice, so you can match it to everything else.
Most want as much speed as possible so the low turn motors. The windings do not increase/decrease power or torque, they will move the curves around on lower amp setups.

Others like me have a top speed that will be ridden at and a lower riding speed for longer rides and efficiency. These are 100% and 50% of motor speed. All of this may not matter to you unless you start wanting more range from your battery.

by Dunlop » Aug 31 2022 11:05pm

So I have been playing with the Motor Simulator quite a bit, to see if I can make up my mind on a few design parameters...
In my previous attempt, as Rix stated, I chose the 66V Dewalt from the list of available batteries purely for the "Speed" of 66V, which gave me a 4 mile range, as ZeroEm pointed out.

So here are a few comparative simulations (changing only one thing each time) which are starting to give me some direction:

3T vs. 4T , 66V battery, 100% Throttle in Voltage mode ===> 3T just has a nicer torque curve!!

 

[Dunlop]

A. If you supply sufficient battery and phase amperage, the torque lines for all turns of a given motor will lay on top of each other. It is either your controller phase amperage or your battery amperage that are driving the shape of your torque curves and NOT the motor. All turns of a given motor are capable of the exact same torque per battery amp.

Thank you for explaining... Some of these things are not obvious until they are explained in the correct terms!!

1. If your motor controller is set to draw 100 amps from the battery, you're going to have much more voltage sag/droop than the 0.02 ohms you entered in the simulator.

And this is why I asked for help.... I am just using that value because someone told me. Do you have a more realistic value??

3. The KLS6018S says it has a continuous motor current limit of 100 amps. That 100 amps you should be entering in the Phase Current Limit section, which is motor amps. I've never used Kelly controllers before, but I would guess that the Battery Amp limit is closer to 40 amps.

OK, as I said Kelly rates their controllers differently than other companies.. All I have found is this (Scroll down to chart - page 5):
https://kellycontroller.com/wp-content/uploads/kls-s/KellyKLS-SUserManualV1.10.pdf
Where does the 240A 20 second burst fit into this puzzle??
If you are correct, then this controller will be the same as the Frankenrunner (96 phase amps).

Are you planning to build your own battery?

It will be a custom build of some sort... I would like someone with more experience to build it, but I may... I am going to wander through the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas this winter looking for builders, and also the latest in cell technology.
Other E-S members have crammed 186 of the 18650 cells into this frame, about 5 years ago. I am hoping to build a battery from 21700 cells, like a P42a or something..

Did not wish to make it confusing. The Motor Simulator is fun to play with. To do a real life build would use equipment that you would expect to buy. It is unlikely you will use Dewalt's or any thing between 52V and 72V.

No, No, No you didn't make it confusing.... I am a mechanical engineer (specialized in ICE performance), and I wish they would have made us take more electrical courses, than they did!! The motor simulator is a great tool, I just knew it would be a steep learning curve for me. And that is why I like someone looking over my shoulder, because I am still not confident in the values I am entering. If it were a gas engine I would be much more confident in myself.

Others like me have a top speed that will be ridden at and a lower riding speed for longer rides and efficiency. These are 100% and 50% of motor speed. All of this may not matter to you unless you start wanting more range from your battery.

I am still wanting to be able to cruise around Lake Havasu City at about 35mph, with a top speed of about 45mph.

Just to clarify a couple of things: I am trying to hot-rod this Stealth Beta framed bike (which looks more like a bicycle than some of these huge Bomber frames that look like a suite-case on wheels), and still have some amount of range. My most common commute is a 15 mile round trip to the opposite end of town to play pool. The route has many short ups and downs without many flats.
My simulations worry me that it gives a range of about 25 miles... This could be cutting it a little close if the real world range is less, and also is reduced as the battery ages. I have no plans to rebuild it later to go faster, and since I don't have a pile of parts, I am trying to design it the best I can this time around.... My 2 biggest fears are: 1. Not having some type of Beast-mode, and 2. Not having enough range, because I put too much faith in the Motor Simulator.

At this point I need to verify my motor simulator values for a "Custom controller" and "Custom battery", by:
1. Contacting an experienced Kelly controller user, and
2. Learn how to calculate real world numbers for a 16S6P pack built with P42a, or P45b cells (based on manufactures specs).

Thank you all for your comments, and input.... I sincerely appreciate it!!
Keith

 

[E-HP]

My simulations worry me that it gives a range of about 25 miles... This could be cutting it a little close if the real world range is less, and also is reduced as the battery ages. I have no plans to rebuild it later to go faster, and since I don't have a pile of parts, I am trying to design it the best I can this time around.... My 2 biggest fears are: 1. Not having some type of Beast-mode, and 2. Not having enough range, because I put too much faith in the Motor Simulator.


Thank you all for your comments, and input.... I sincerely appreciate it!!
Keith

Based on how the simulator compares to actual performance, using my bike as an example, I'd say that it is very accurate below 20mph, and good for comparing different systems above that. Above 20 mph, wind resistance becomes the dominating factor for range and speed, and the simulator will only be as accurate as the riding positions are modeled compared to how you ride your bike. Simply changing your riding position from upright to tucked (mountain bike tuck, not road, which would give even more range), can give you almost 50% more range at higher speeds. The simulator can't model your wind resistance or know how skinny or fat your are (except for weight), or if your head and legs are shaved, so it makes assumptions.

Here's your system A, upright, compared to system A tucked as an example. For the tucked position, the throttle is backed off toe match the speed with the upright position, in order to compare the ranges at the same speed:
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=Leaf%205T&mass=150&hp=0&batt=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel=24i&frame=mountain&axis=mph&blue=Nm&cont=cust_100_240_0.01_V&throt=100&cont_b=cust_100_240_0.01_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=cust_66_0.02_22&wheel_b=24i&mass_b=150&hp_b=0&bopen=true&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49&frame_b=mtn_tuck&autothrot_b=true&throt_b=85.2


When I go on a long right (40+ miles) I'm usually sitting upright in the beginning, but after 30 miles or so, I sort of lean on the bars to rest, and it's easy to see the watts go down at the same riding speed. Works out well, since I know I have more range on the return tip.

 

[Dunlop]

Thanks for the reply E-HP,
That load line really shows the difference in wind resistance!! It makes 9 miles range difference if you pull it back to my cruising speed of 35mph.
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h...throt_b=51&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49&autothrot=true
Your point is well taken!! Unfortunately I am a fairly upright rider, but I get it... everything you do to be more aerodynamic at speeds over 20mph will definitely help your range.

This again proves that the simulator has sooo many things incorporated into it, and just one incorrect value can give you the wrong outcome, by quite a bit. This again is why I am trying to enter reasonable values and not fool myself!!

Thanks again,
Keith

 

[E-HP]

Thanks for the reply E-HP,
That load line really shows the difference in wind resistance!! It makes 9 miles range difference if you pull it back to my cruising speed of 35mph.
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h...throt_b=51&kv=17.49&kv_b=17.49&autothrot=true
Your point is well taken!! Unfortunately I am a fairly upright rider, but I get it... everything you do to be more aerodynamic at speeds over 20mph will definitely help your range.

This again proves that the simulator has sooo many things incorporated into it, and just one incorrect value can give you the wrong outcome, by quite a bit. This again is why I am trying to enter reasonable values and not fool myself!!

Thanks again,
Keith

For performance data, it really seems to line up with the motor's performance; meaning that if you look at the torque curves and compare it to the real world performance you can feel the change in acceleration at different speeds. For things like that, or how it will perform full throttle on a grade, assuming a certain bike weight, etc., it's pretty good. I wish they'd model the temps to meltdown. Statorade and a temp sensor are must haves.

Depending on what those ups and downs look like, I wouldn't go with 3T, even with hub sinks. I think it's nice to be able to go fast, but nice to ride slower and take different routes and explore. I understand though, having a purpose built bike for a specific commute, not necessarily for enjoyment. My bike is now 84 lbs. I can't go any heavier, and it takes the right technique to lift it up on my truck bed. so I avoid it. But it's still light enough to feel nimble while riding it. Like a bike. That makes it fun. I don't need speed, but I like acceleration, so speed is a byproduct of getting to the acceleration I want in the slower speed ranges I like to ride at. If I want to ride faster, then the answer is a motorcycle. Those up and down hills are fun, but also dangerous at 35mph on a bike. Are there deer in your area?

 

[ZeroEm]

by Dunlop » Sep 01 2022 10:55pm

If your after speed and torque then it all starts with the battery, 72V+ is the go to for speed. Then modify the motor wiring to handle the increase in amps, 60+. 24" wheel or smaller.

It really comes down to money, remember its going to be hard to keep the front wheel down.

Range is easer to get, slow down 20mph or less and peddle.

 

[Dunlop]

Those up and down hills are fun, but also dangerous at 35mph on a bike. Are there deer in your area?

I am originally from Michigan, where there are all kinds of animals, so I know what you are thinking.... But in Arizona there is absolutely no roadkill to be seen. Just have to watch out for slow moving snow-birds!!
Keith

 

[calab]

I hear the Cougars are active this time of year :wink: :lol: in Michigan.

Hunt, kill and eat and save the meat, but I dont think I am man enough to kill Bamby. Be like in that movie The Deer Hunter with Bob Dinero, where hes got the deer in the scope sights and yet he just cant finish it, The Bamby Effect. Then the war came, and the gambling begun.

Birds, check.... Pelicans, check, ya I GOT IT ALL covered the last 14 days. Highlite today, ebiking along with the birds at their level, on the levy bearn and the bird flying next to me, you cant beat it man. Then an hour later, another bird flying along side me over the pond.
Its hard to get the right speed, and its hard not to crash gazing at the beautiful, amazing birdies all the way to the ant struggling with the wind carrying a load. I see it all. The smokey haze, the sun lowering and going orange.

Epic, absolutely epic.

Was worth every penny spent. All the heartaches, all the dissappointments...... but hey I know I can fix my ebike myself.

Those up and down hills are fun, but also dangerous at 35mph on a bike. Are there deer in your area?

I am originally from Michigan, where there are all kinds of animals, so I know what you are thinking.... But in Arizona there is absolutely no roadkill to be seen. Just have to watch out for slow moving snow-birds!!
Keith

 

[neptronix]

The ebikes.ca motor simulator is very accurate and matches all the observations i've seen in the real world with many motors. It matches up with my manual measurements ( trying different continuous speeds on flat land with very little wind ) very early in the thread. Also, leafmotor/leafbike's dyno graph was dead accurate to what i experienced in the real world.

If you only want to do 20mph, the 35mm leafie is way too big of a motor for you.. peak efficiency comes in at 30mph / 1000W load in 26" wheel.. many smaller motors have their efficiency sweet spot in the 20-25mph range of speed.. which will result in more battery mileage.

 

[kudos]

Does anyone know if this is a DD or geared motor? The description says both ?? Looks like a geared motor to me....

https://www.leafbike.com/products/beach-snow-fat-bike-kit/26-inch-48v-52v-500w-750w-1000w-freewheel-cassette-beach-snow-fat-bike-hub-motor-conversion-kit-1267.html?VariantsId=10361

Is this their own motor or a debadged bafang maybe?

 

[john61ct]

what makes you think geared?

 

[kudos]

" direct drive Brushless Gear high torque hub Motor "

Although it does state regen which I hadn't noticed so does look to be DD.

 

[kudos]

https://www.leafbike.com/products/e-bike-hub-motor/electric-fat-bike-motor-brushless-gear-hub-48v-52v-500w-750w-1000w-freewheel-cassette-snow-tire-1130.html?VariantsId=10079

It is a geared motor!