My Ezip winter projects

[dumbass]

I welcome your thoughts, opinions and most importantly any information and/or help you can provide me.

My wife and I each have 2 ebikes. a 7 year Wallie World bike with 360w Cyclone motor kits new Ezip. She is only interested in short forest preserve rides using the car to transport the bikes. But I like to do my own thing or venture off with a friend and ride 20+ miles. I live in a rural area surrounded by great forest preserve trails and I prefer to start out at home and head for the trails. I want to increase the top speed on my Ezip (without changing the voltage or losing current hill climbing power). This is my idea to increase the top speed. Please note I am already running 24v 20ah lipo4 batteries and ordered a second set of these batteries to add to my capacity.

1) Install a Nuvinci hub that I already own
2) Add a second stock Ezip 450w 24v motors (The motors will not run simultaneously).
3) Mount both motors on the right side and drive them through the Nuvinci hub
4) Install a motor selector switch (same switch used to select the battery) on the handle bar or use the TAG/PAS push button through a relay to select which motor is allowed to run
5) Install a freewheel on the crank sprocket

With this setup I can start out with the low geared motor if I want to shift to the high geared motor I let off the throttle, press the selector switch and hit the throttle again. This setup should allow me to have great hill climbing power for fun on the trails plus added speed capability for roadway riding.

Here's the help I need...

!) Does anyone know where I can get a relay so I can use the TAG/PAS push button through a relay?
2) I have heard about a 2 motor mounting plate for the Ezip. This would be easier then making one. Does anyone have info where to get this plate?

 

[TPA]

Kurt made the 2 motor mount, you should find most of what you are looking for in this thread: See page 11 for relevant pics.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3249&hilit=two+motors+kurt

Here is another mount plate for one motor, perhaps one on each side?

http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=106030

 

[rkosiorek]

another thread:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4936&start=30#p110257

your project is ambitious. like to see how it works out.

another alternative - mount both motors on the left side driving the wheel as it is now. leave the human powered side as is. get a larger 24V controller. one that is capable of higher amps at 24V. have the motors run through a switch. position #1 = low speed - motors run in serial. position #2 = high speed - motors run in parallel. sort of a 2 speed electric transmission.

rick

 

[dumbass]

another thread:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4936&start=30#p110257

your project is ambitious. like to see how it works out.

another alternative - mount both motors on the left side driving the wheel as it is now. leave the human powered side as is. get a larger 24V controller. one that is capable of higher amps at 24V. have the motors run through a switch. position #1 = low speed - motors run in serial. position #2 = high speed - motors run in parallel. sort of a 2 speed electric transmission.

rick

Yeah, your right it would be a lot easier that way and we know that it works because it's been done before and has been said to work well. But I want to take full advantage of my Nuvinci hub. It's currently installed on another bike with a 360w Cyclone motor that drive through the crank sprocket to the hub. This works well and I really love the smoothness of the Nuvinci shifting and no chains hopping from gear to gear like with normal hubs. By mounting the 2 Ezip motor the way they are normally but on the right side they are on their own chain drive directly to the hub. But like the crank chain they are taking full advantage of the hubs ratio changing. Plus I have the added advantage of the second motor with a higher speed gear on it. Besides I haven't heard of anyone mounting a Nuvinci hub and an Ezip yet. Let alone with twin motors and the motor actually using the gearing of the hub. Lets face it the Nuvinci hubs cost almost twice what a complete Ezip bike costs. So in a way it could be considered a bit of "over kill". But then so is upgrading to lipo4 or Lithium-ion packs. But people are still doing it and I'm one of them. I guess you could say I also like redesigning things even if it's not broken.

I may do things in phases though. Phase 1) install 2 motors on the left side but with freewheels on the motors and different sized sprockets on each motor but still with the stock throttle and controller and select which motor runs, phase 2) install the Nuvinci hub and remount the motors onto the right side. The problem would be testing in Chicago winter weather. I'm 62 years old and unlike some I have no desire to test ride in the snow. But I do have a young son-in-law........LOL

 

[recumpence]

One concern I have is the efficiency of the Nuvinci. They are something around 80% efficient. THey are also heavy. But, yes, the shifting is smoooooth.

Where around Chicago are you?

Matt

 

[dumbass]

One concern I have is the efficiency of the Nuvinci. They are something around 80% efficient. THey are also heavy. But, yes, the shifting is smoooooth.

Where around Chicago are you?

Matt

Hi Matt,

Your correct the eff. on a Nuvinci is poor but I think it's somewhere in the 90s. But the fact you can dial it in to your exact need I've felt I was gaining back most if not all my loss to eff.. The only thing I don't like is it's hard (impossible) shifting under load. But they claim this will improve greatly with use. I only have a few 100 miles on it so I'll wait and see.

Actually I don't live in Chicago I live in Wayne, ILL. (next door to St. Charles) about 30 miles west of down town Chicago. I assume you are from the Chicago area. Where abouts?

Bob

 

[recumpence]

Ahh, you are an hour south of me. I am up in McHenry county (Island Lake). I have a parts supplier near you in South Elgin.

Matt

 

[amberwolf]

Someone else on here (tapholov) had reported up to 33% power loss thru the NuVinci, using high power dual motors to drive it.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12832&start=0&hilit=nuvinci

 

[dumbass]

Someone else on here (tapholov) had reported up to 33% power loss thru the NuVinci, using high power dual motors to drive it.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12832&start=0&hilit=nuvinci

I just read tapholov posting and I would be the last to question someone elses opinion. However, I had this Nuvinci on my old bike which originally had a standard 18 speed shifter. Of course when I installed the Cyclone motor kit I had to install a freewheel and single sprocket on the crank making it a 6 speed. My max pedal speed with motor with the 18 speed was aproximately 22 to 24mph (with the motor). and with the Nuvinci it is the same. Of course this proves nothing because of gearing and a lot of other factors that may or may not be the same. But in my opioion I question how anyone can actually rate the power lose of a hub in their garage or basement without diagonistic equipment. Everything I have read has indicated the eff in the 90+ range.

I have also read comments that the Nuvinci weighs 10 to 20 pounds. I weighed my rim with the 6 speed and with the Nuvinci and it weighed 5 pound more with the Nuvinci. So if your going to carry your bike instead of ride it I wouldn't recomend it. In any case the Nuvinci is something you ether love or don't. And if you do you are willing to live with it's losses what even they are.

 

[tapholov]

Hi,

I'll just do a quicky here since I have a friend coming over.

My opinion is that at 24V your motor develops about 1/2 a horsepower, similar to you, yourself, pedaling. Without pedaling, your NuVinci hub won't let you go as fast on the motor alone as if you have a standard hub in the back. If you pedal along with the motor, the added horsepower actually overcomes the power of the motor and the loss of power from the NuVinci hub is eliminated. Less speed, less difference. More speed, more difference. Just like the stock market: get 14% interest on a buck and you can't buy candies, do it with a million buck and you're out buying a few e-bikes. I run my bikes at 48V and they go at 40- to 55 km/h. I can feel the difference between hubs. Do 'tapholov' on Youtube.com, you''ll see.

Weight: don't confuse pounds and kilograms. Set your standards straight before comparing.
Bottom line: NuVinci hubs are heavy which is a + if you downhill but a drag going uphill.

Seems to me that you're trying to do a lot of thinking and mixing a lot of ideas together: two motors, two gear ratios, left side, right side, variable transmission, can't ride in snow.

I'm not a specialist here, can't sell you anything but on my next post, I'll try to help you a bit with the choices that you have with what ever you have. I'm a little ahead of you but not much younger. Let me help because I'm also trying way to take advantage of the NuVinci hub. I love it too.

 

[dumbass]

Hi,

I'll just do a quicky here since I have a friend coming over.

My opinion is that at 24V your motor develops about 1/2 a horsepower, similar to you, yourself, pedaling. Without pedaling, your NuVinci hub won't let you go as fast on the motor alone as if you have a standard hub in the back. If you pedal along with the motor, the added horsepower actually overcomes the power of the motor and the loss of power from the NuVinci hub is eliminated. Less speed, less difference. More speed, more difference. Just like the stock market: get 14% interest on a buck and you can't buy candies, do it with a million buck and you're out buying a few e-bikes. I run my bikes at 48V and they go at 40- to 55 km/h. I can feel the difference between hubs. Do 'tapholov' on Youtube.com, you''ll see.

Weight: don't confuse pounds and kilograms. Set your standards straight before comparing.
Bottom line: NuVinci hubs are heavy which is a + if you downhill but a drag going uphill.

Seems to me that you're trying to do a lot of thinking and mixing a lot of ideas together: two motors, two gear ratios, left side, right side, variable transmission, can't ride in snow.

I'm not a specialist here, can't sell you anything but on my next post, I'll try to help you a bit with the choices that you have with what ever you have. I'm a little ahead of you but not much younger. Let me help because I'm also trying way to take advantage of the NuVinci hub. I love it too.

Hi tapholov, Yeah, i have watched several of your YouTube videos but didn't realize it was you. What's your fasination with cemetaries and bones?

Looks like yo've already done about what I am looking to do but with a different type of bike but likely simular problems. As my post says I am going to us an EZip for this project. Kind of like turning a Pinto into a Jaguar........Well their both Fords though or at least they used to be.

I know there is a loss through the Nuvinci but I love the system and I'm willing to live with it. I want to stay with the stock Ezip motors and keep them running at their stock voltage of 24v for a few reasons which I won't go into now. But I want to increase the HP hence the reason for doubling up (2) on the motors. These motors/gearboxs will fit in my"V" with no problem. What I would like to do is run the motor drive chain directly to the Nuvinci hub with a second chain from the crank. I will be installing a freewheel on the crank. My problem is installing freewheels on the motors. The gearbox shafts are very small and would require adaptors that might be heavy for the shaft size. I would prefer to install 2 freewheels side by side on the Nuvinci hub. It looks like this is what you did as well. Because I am not sure of my desired or capable speed with this setup I am undecided on my gearing. The motor output speed (no load) is 550rpm.

please feel free to help me as much as you like. I am totally open to leand from others experience. Hopefully it will save my budget too. If you don't mind maybe we can talk more via email.

 

[dumbass]

Hi,

I'll just do a quicky here since I have a friend coming over.

My opinion is that at 24V your motor develops about 1/2 a horsepower, similar to you, yourself, pedaling. Without pedaling, your NuVinci hub won't let you go as fast on the motor alone as if you have a standard hub in the back. If you pedal along with the motor, the added horsepower actually overcomes the power of the motor and the loss of power from the NuVinci hub is eliminated. Less speed, less difference. More speed, more difference. Just like the stock market: get 14% interest on a buck and you can't buy candies, do it with a million buck and you're out buying a few e-bikes. I run my bikes at 48V and they go at 40- to 55 km/h. I can feel the difference between hubs. Do 'tapholov' on Youtube.com, you''ll see.

Weight: don't confuse pounds and kilograms. Set your standards straight before comparing.
Bottom line: NuVinci hubs are heavy which is a + if you downhill but a drag going uphill.

Seems to me that you're trying to do a lot of thinking and mixing a lot of ideas together: two motors, two gear ratios, left side, right side, variable transmission, can't ride in snow.

I'm not a specialist here, can't sell you anything but on my next post, I'll try to help you a bit with the choices that you have with what ever you have. I'm a little ahead of you but not much younger. Let me help because I'm also trying way to take advantage of the NuVinci hub. I love it too.

I sent you a PM. It would be great if you can ofer me any tips and/or build information. Hope you can get back to me. Thanks,