Need some help in identifying a Ebike

[onemorejoltwarden]

I need some help in identifying a Ebike that I bought at a garage sale.

The story that I got was that it was a sample from someone who was trying to start a business importing the bikes to big-box stores

He had no luck and was liquidating his samples.
I picked up an incomplete bike at a very good price with the intention of either getting it running or parting it out , based on what was usable on the bike, which looked like I could recover based on a garage sale prices/ value, and learn about ebikes in the process

I doubt if it has ever been run as it still had no pedals installed and was very clean

I have seen a very similar set up on Ali Baba based on a large container sized purchase.
Typical to this one but with some differences were:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/e-bike-YXEB-8511_317971537.html
It appears to be a roughly similar set up but I cannot recognize all the components.

Branded as and E totem, but brand stickers can be made on a per container basis
http://e-totem.org
Slovaks near breslau

V battery is labeled BMT12V/10 aH
And is a brick like wrapped lipo, has no charger

The rear hub motor is labeled as a Bafang and I am assuming from the company website that it is probably a 200 to 250 W rear hub
odd for a cheap bike, but this may have been a one off sample. ?or not real Bafang?

Rear derailleur is a shockingly cheap item labeled Tektro

Controller appears to be placed inside of the lower tube. Is there any resource that I can use to sort it out and identify its capacity?

QUESTIONS:

1) Battery was flat and I am going to need some advice about getting a charger for lipo's.

2) Can I run it on 24 V as I can put together and SLA a pack to do that while I am awaiting a charger?

3) Any tips on identifying the battery and seeing if it is still usable?

4) if I pull the controller, how can identify its parameters?

5) since parts are broadly sourced, how does one go about identifying them?


In a similarly motivated act of curiosity I acquired a front hub motor that has no identification and I need a guide to troubleshooting it to see if I can identify it and what it would need to make it run

Thanks for the help. I'm just getting started and I am curious about what I would need to better understand the bikes and what I can best use to introduce myself to them.

I appreciate the site
It has been a big help




looks like a decent bike, seller really didn't know what he was trying to rep.

My recommendation would be to look for the next Michael Dell who is selling bikes out of his dormitory room rather than a big box retail store.

The people who can afford $1500-$2000 for a good reliable mid range bike need to be educated as to what to look for, and need simplicity reliability and economy

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

here is the pic for the bike
sorry probs getting the filesize right
R

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

I need some help in selecting a charger option for a bike I have inherited.
This is a nearly new bike that was a reps sample
It comes to me with a dead battery which I am presuming is a Lipo. It is clearly not an SLA.
It is labeled as a 30V 10 a H. made by BMT in a pretty generic case and XLR plug. labels in chinese

It came to me without a charger and I need to get a basic charger to see if it will take and hold a charge.

I am a bit overwhelmed by all the information and have actually way too much to make what I think is a simple choice.
I appreciate how sophisticated this is, but need to get it a bit simpler and more step wise
Most posters seem to go pretty deep, pretty fast.

I have not been able to find a FAQ that limits itself to simple debugging and troubleshooting


Assuming it is a discharged Lipo, what would a good introductory basic charger be for this?
can I do this inexpensively, or in stages? getting started gradually.


Thanks
R

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

oops typo
36v/10aH

 

[dnmun]

can you take a picture of the battery and the BMS so we can see what you have?

 

[amberwolf]

Best is to post some pictures of the stuff you do have.

If you can open it up so we can see the cells, and you can measure some cell voltages, it may also help determine what kind of charger you need, and what we may be able to do to help fix it if it needs it.


EDIT: I have merged your two threads about this bike so that it will be easier for us to help you, since you don't have all of the info available in each thread (and some people will only see one thread, and others the other thread).

 

[dnmun]

i just got another bike that looks like that without a motor. i am gonna put a 9C on front i think.

a 36V battery can be several different chemistries so we need to see what you have and post it up here as a picture and not a link please.

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

Thanks to all for the help
I was hoping it might be a recognizable bike with odd brand.
badged by a third party, with generic hardware
had to massage my pics to get them to size for the forum
Found the wiki (only took 4 hours of search/delving/learning)
will need to un shrink-wrap the battery and BMS. in the AM
battery holder is totally generic and I didn't see separate cells on first survey

I was unsure if generic 36v lipo chargers for bulk charging play well with the BMS/Battery of presumably generic battery packs.

I am trying to get a sense of the chargers as they run from $18 to 60-100, and I'm not sure what the distinction

?how are the batts best rewrapped after the shrink wrap is removed?

The battery threads get deep in specific needs and the wiki was good but too general
If balanced charging is not an immediate need, or handled by the BMS,
I would like to put off sorting that out until I get it running.


Hopefully it works with just a charge

If the controller is OK and the Motor a real Bafang, it should be a good starter bike

Thanks again

R

One more jolt , Warden.
He's still twitching.

 

[dnmun]

what wiki are your referring to?

do not tear the wrapping off the battery until you can post up a picture here so we can see what you have first. there will be labels on the battery so take pictures of that and if the guy who sold you the ebike is still around go back and ask him if there is a charger or if he knows who made the battery or charger or what voltage the charger actually charged to.

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

Case is a pretty standard case like this (better than my pics)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111422071576?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Battery has 10 blocks of cells and BMS as shown
XLR female plg and a C13 connector in case

Again many Thanks

R

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

Better luck

made by Tianjin Golden Wheel Bicycle Group Co.,Ltd imported by some Slovak company then to US ? direct?
http://www.e-totem.org/
http://www.e-totem.cz
Found some on a "Swiss Craigs list " OLX.CH

No models identical to what I have but many similar
24" wheels, aluminum frame containing the controller
decent bike for its weight and running gear
much better set up than the factory pictured models and may include a real Bafang hub
Seem to consistently describe a Battery: Lithium - ion battery 36V / 10Ah
and motors from 250 to 350watt pedal assist sensor with
"Electrical support to 25km / h" implying speed limiting c/w european standards

I still need some help with a charger recommendation
I can sort my way through the ones clearly set for SLA's , but am not sure what to look for in a Lipo capable set up
that will work , though it seems like most of the battery / and bikes ship with a pretty "basic " charger


R

 

[dnmun]

ok if it says 36V lithium ion it is most likely 42V DC so look for a lithium ion charger that has 42V output. match the charging plug or make new ones.

 

[d8veh]

You can use any standard 36v ebike charger that has a charge voltage of 42.0v and a current of 2.5 amps or less. That bike is just a standard Chinese bike. Everything on it is pretty standard, so spares are plentiful. You can get a replacement battery from loads of sources, especially Aliexpress. It's called a silver fish battery. If you get a new one, check that the contacts in the base have the same polarity with a meter before connecting because there's no standard for which way round they go.

If you have a decent battery, or get a more powerful one, you can solder the shunt in the controller for a bit more torque, or chuck the battery and use 12S lipos for 20% more speed and power. You can run the motor up to about 800W from the battery without problems, so that's about 20A at 36v or 17A with 12S lipos or 15A at 48v (for which you need a new controller. Your present controller will be 14 or 15 amps. It should be in the compartment directly under the battery.

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

Thanks dnmun , d8veh.

I am just getting started and I very much appreciate your input.

WIll get a simple 1-2 amp charger, see if it holds a charge (the PO let it drain)
and test the bike on a simple SLA pack if it won't hold a charge

That should give me enough to get a runner, functional enough to see if this is what I need , or what I want to have.

Thanks again for your help

R

 

[dnmun]

where are you located? the battery looks new and has a BMS so it is not over discharged so it should be fine.

the 36V label is a hangover form using 12V increments for batteries from the days when people once used SLA batteries.

for lifepo4 a 36V battery is 12S or 12 cells in series and charges to 43.8V for full charge., 48V is 16S,is 58.4V DC.

now for lithium ion they use 36V label for a 10S battery that is 42V at full charge and a 48V li-ion is 54.6V DC.

that is what the charger should be. except we use a little less for lifepo4 now to reduce plating out of li metal away from the anode.

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

Thanks again for that extra information
If there is a charger FAQ I have missed it
I am assuming a BMS controls the charging, and haven't been able to get a good intro/FAQ to what and how a BMS does.
(I saw the ESwiki and https://www.electricbike.com/lithium-battery/ both of which are helpful, but still a bit basic)
and the BMSBattery help., so I have some basics.
there are a coupe of ES threads that are good, just a bit scattered
The senior members are very gracious.


I am in Dallas, no local shops with anything other than complete bikes.

I am trying to vet the chargers by their advertised parameters, which are often scant
NYCwheels has one at 60$ plus shipping
2Amp at 36 volt nominal, 42 Volt peak charge

and there are some Ebay ones from China that run about 40$
I am not sure they aren't the same , but don't mind paying more to have someone figure that out
From EBay there appear two that stand out
Stephy.n (42v, 1000mAhrx10)
and
SANS Charger
(Item name: Electric Bike 36V 4.5A Lithium Battery Charger E-bike Scooter For Lifepo4 Li-ion Battery
42V,Output : 4.5A Output Power : 190W
Cutoff automatically function (when battery full charged), + 2 usd more .
Links to above:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bike-36V-4-5A-10ah-Lithium-Battery-Charger-Ebike-Scooter-Lifepo4-Li-ion-/221500901414?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item33927b8826

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291244991222?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

BMS bikes has one for$25 plus china shipping, S180 Charger Built-in Active PFC

From the ads I am not assuming that the bulk chargers stop charging when charge is full, and am assuming the BMS controls this.
If so then a cut off would be redundant, nice but redundant. At the midrange price, if there is a better one , it isn't that much of difference.
? has anyone listed a charger teardown on basic/bulk chargers (I found one on balancing chargers)

I would be happy to put together a summary/FAQ ?basic troubleshooting for my fellow noob charger shoppers, bringing together the sources I have used ,
but would certainly want to vet it past a knowledgable member. If there is one , thanks for pointing it out

Rich

One more jolt,Warden.
He's still twitching.

 

[dnmun]

either one of those ebay chargers will work. there are lots more but the first one was more current for almost the same money.

some chargers do have a latching output that turns off the charger when it reaches final voltage but i don't think either of those will have that feature.

i have abuncha the small kingpans waiting for me to fix too if you need one.

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

Thanks again for that extra information
If there is a charger FAQ I have missed it
I am assuming a BMS controls the charging, and haven't been able to get a good intro/FAQ to what and how a BMS does.
(I saw the ESwiki and https://www.electricbike.com/lithium-battery/ both of which are helpful, but still a bit basic)
I am in Dallas
I am trying to vet the chargers by their advertised parameters, which are often scant
NYCwheels has one at 60$ plus shipping
2Amp at 36 volt nominal, 42 Volt peak charge

and there are some Ebay ones from China that run about 40$
I am not sure they aren't the same , but don't mind paying more to have someone figure that out
From EBay
Stephy.n (42v, 1000mAhrx10)
and
SANS Charger
(Item name: Electric Bike 36V 4.5A Lithium Battery Charger E-bike Scooter For Lifepo4 Li-ion Battery
42V,Output : 4.5A Output Power : 190W
Cutoff automatically function (when battery full charged), + 2 usd more .

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bike-36V-4-5A-10ah-Lithium-Battery-Charger-Ebike-Scooter-Lifepo4-Li-ion-/221500901414?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item33927b8826

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291244991222?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT



From the ads I am not assuming that the bulk chargers stop charging when charge is full, and am assuming the BMS controls this.
If so then a cut off would be redundant, nice but redundant.

I would be happy to put together a summary for my fellow noob charger shoppers, bringing together the sources I have used ,
but would certainly want to vet it past a knowledgable member.

 

[dnmun]

no need to worry about the charger. i asked in your pm if you could find a piece of steel wire if you have no power resistor and i asked you to take the BMS out of the shrink wrap so you could try to get a jumper across the BMS. that is where it is now. you do not need another charger.

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

Apparently the bike comes from golden wheel in china

I have had it up running pretty solid with two zippy 5000 5S, though it is a pita to have to unplug and charge them with the Tenergy .

Getting about 10 miles WOT , And 20 PAS. ON THE BFANG "250watt" geared hub.
It is ok as a BSO but top end is 60 gear inches and it tops out at ~24mph
Just uses PAS with 'three speeds ' which translates to 10, 14, and 18 mph on the level, spinning to get the PAS act like a throttle.

I have the original battery pack in the (fireproof)project drawer and will try to use the Tenergy charger to see if I can bring it to life cell by cell. I suspect it is toast, but hope to learn about maint/ design and testing batteries from it


Again thanks

Richard

 

[onemorejoltwarden]

Not Quite sure What Dead Looks Like, but I think it looks like this

dnmum,
I have finally got my soldering and electronics skills up to the point where I could follow up on your help.

Sorry about the delay , but I wanted to better understand what I was doing and not mess anything up.
had a couple of wires break or pull from BMS board solder joints, no real trauma

I carefully opened the outside shrink wrap and exposed battery/BMS connections.
Put Charger (Tenergy TB6AC) in NMH mode on individual cells
most started at less than 1 v, charged at 600ma for about 15 min to 3.7 -4.1v by the chargers meter.
Immediately retested voltage on charged cell consistently got 2.3 to 1.5 v which then would fall over several hours to a volt or less.

That sounds like dead to me .
?any suggestions
can I reuse the BMS on another 10s, or is the better part of valor passing on its further use?
Is there a source for the JST connectors used on 5S and 10S+ packs, I don't know how to search the Digikey like sites by their proper name and get too many pages to sort through.

Wish I could use the Silverfish battery box ( low, clean, secure), but it looks like it's hard to fit anything useful inside it