Need some help with a 5000watt 19" Enduro eBike

[makzinations]

Hi friends,

After a long time I decided to stop Googling on the issues I got with my Enduro eBike build, and register an account over here to ask you fellas for help.

About a year ago I bought the Enduro eBike frame from a factory in China (the one with the flat side-panel). A little later I contacted another factory in China to do a Motor upgrade from my old 1500watt (28” MTB) > 5000watt (19” Motorcycle). So I ordered the following things for this motor upgrade:

• 5000 watt rear-hub motor, 19 inch Motorcycle tire

• Sabvoton SVMC 7280 with pre-installed waterproof 1T4 cable by the seller (this means I lost the stock connectors for eLock, 3-speed-switch and reverse wire, along with some other functions)

• 26.6Ah 72v Batterypack

My issues are as follows:


1) Waterproof Multicable: because the seller (or factory) decided for me to get rid of all the original connectors and replace them with a 1T4 waterproof cable. With this cable I can only connect 1x LCD, 1x Throttle and 2x eBrake wires. Now I would like to add an eLock (orangeIgnition) to use a key to be able to start the bike and add a 3-speed-switch. Unfortunately, the original wires for the eLock/3-speed-switch aren’t still remaining soldered on the Sabvoton PCB, so I don’t know where I should solder the wires for eLock and 3-speed. Is there some sort of diagram for this? Where should I solder these functions back??? So damn terrible that those companies replaces those cables, why make a waterproof cable when the Enduro frame itself is in it’s stock-form not waterproof??

2) Maximum speed limiting: when I accelerate, I reach 70km/h In a matter of seconds. But, when I reach 70km/h, I instantly feel that it’s not able to accelerate any further, just only a little bit, It will climb to around 75-80km/h, but not any higher, regardless of Throttle In max-position. When I look at the power consumption when driving max-speed, I see only 2500-3500watt current draw, where during acceleration I noticed that it’s able to reach 7000-8000 watt. Why isn’t the bike able to get the same amount of power (7000-8000 watt) during top-speed (I mean a somehow limited top-speed). I can easily feel that the bike gets cut-off around 70km/h and isn’t able to accelerate any faster than 70 till maximum 80km/h, BUT on around 55km/h I can still feel that the Bike can accelerate like crazy!?!?!?

The seller told me that it’ll be able to reach around or even above 100km/h. Unfortunately, the seller collected my money and didn’t reply anymore to these questions I asked him…

Below follows some screenshots of the current MQCON Android Settings which are in place now.

HOW and WHERE should we solder these new orangeWire and 3-speed-switch-wires? Is there any sort of photo or diagram for this? I know I’m not the only one with this issue, other forum member already messaged me about having the same issue.

Would be amazing if somebody could help me out with this! As said, I’m struggling for over a year already.

Thanks a lot for everybody’s answer!

 

[makzinations]

Photos of the build:

 

[MadRhino]

It is normal that you are pulling more power in acceleration. To beat that power surge riding top speed up hill, you need a steeper hill.

That is still very low power for this motor, that can survive peaks of 25kw.

Higher voltage or larger wheel will give you better top speed.

 

[Stupidgeniuss]

I’m going to have the same issue soon when my motor and controller arrive pls help ebike veterans

 

[markz]

What tires you are using?

 

[MadRhino]

There is no real issue here. Could have purchased a bigger controller (if battery is capable of more than 80 Amps) to have more power, and a higher Kv motor to have more speed.

Then, if the motor is a fast winding already, there could be a problem, maybe speed limited in controller program. But we don’t know that, so logically we have to presume that if it is running fine it is the normal speed that it is wound to do.

The power is typical of this 80A controller.

The other issues, like where to plug what, are obvious. The 3 speed signal goes to a 3 speed switch. On the controller board they are normally coded. All infos should be on Kelly website.

Then, saying it is a 5000w motor doesn’t tell much. Chinese sellers are not always giving details, sometimes not even the truth. Yet it is a big hub, so it is capable of much higher power than 8kw in acceleration. Climbing top speed, it would pull the full 80A if the hill was steeper, and/or the wheel larger. Right now, current is not limiting speed, so we have to presume that voltage does.

 

[markz]

Oh so true MadRhino, oh so true. The sellers want to sell to anyone gullible enough to buy a 40H motor but list it as 250W to get all the scaredy cats on board to buy their motor. Like the 18650 cell for sale listed as 12,000mAh where the max in reality is 3,250mAh maybe 3,500mAh, or the 50k Lumen motorcycle light that in reality isn't even close to being true. Whatever gets the sale is what they will list.

Thats one bit of a downer when looking at motors to buy is they dont list the stator width iff its a 25H/30H/35H/40H, or even the lamination thickness itself, 0.50, 0.35mm or MAC 0.27mm.

Then, saying it is a 5000w motor doesn’t tell much. Chinese sellers are not always giving details, sometimes not even the truth. Yet it is a big hub, so it is capable of much higher power than 8kw in acceleration. Climbing top speed, it would pull the full 80A if the hill was steeper, and/or the wheel larger. Right now, current is not limiting speed, so we have to presume that voltage does.

 

[makzinations]

@MadRhino (1st post): It is normal that you are pulling more power in acceleration. To beat that power surge riding top speed up hill, you need a steeper hill.

- I know that Boost-mode enables when accelerating. But how is it possible that when I drive around 60km/h, I open the throttle to maximum level, I feel my neck arching all the way to the back because of the (still at 60km/h) insane acceleration, then, when I reach about 70km/h, I instantly feel that it is NOT accelerating any further and having a current draw of around ~3000watt (instead of ~7000watt on acceleration)?

By the way: I live in The Netherlands, we don’t have any hills or mountains, so this eBike is only riding at ground level without any form of elevation whatsoever, talking about steep hills is not relevant here .

@Markz: What tires you are using?

- Thanks for your help man! > Carrystone 80 | 100 - 19 M|C

- Posted by user “mybike”: I have these tyres on my bike, the tyres are motorbike tyres. Mine came from china and says Carrystone on them. In the UK they are called Bridgestone. The size for the front and back are the same tyre and is 19". If you type 80/100-19 tyre Bridgestone on ebay they should show up. They are very good tyres very happy with mine.

@MadRhino (2nd post): The other issues, like where to plug what, are obvious. The 3 speed signal goes to a 3 speed switch. On the controller board they are normally coded. All infos should be on Kelly website.

- Thank you very much for the help so far bro. I just checked the Kelly Controllers website (.com and .eu website), but I only see Kelly Brand controllers (and thus only manuals for Kelly brand controllers). Not for this Sabvoton SVMC 72080. Could you kindly reply the link of the wiring diagram for this 3-speed-switch? Of course I already have the 3-speed-switch already laying around here hehe. User “Stupidgeniuss” would love to receive the same wiring diagram for when his new setup arrives.


All these settings, technical names and stuff, you really have to be a certified electrician to understand this right? Lol

Hopefully somebody could reply to my question about the 3000watt at full throttle (on a flat terrain)!?

Oh, and you said I could’ve bought a bigger controller, when I do, am I able to gain higher maximum speeds?

Thanks so far for everyone’s help.

 

[MadRhino]

Motors are normally pulling less power running full speed than accelerating from a stop, unless there is a high resistance to run full speed. Such high resistance is usually a steep hill, but could be weight or wind, or a combination of them that equates the inertia and inefficiency that resisted the motor at start.

There is resistance to acceleration from a running state, but much lower than from a standstill. Then, once the motor has attained, or coming very close to the full speed relative to the voltage that it is fed, there in no more acceleration possible thus no other power demand than the resistance to maintain that speed.

If the battery can supply more Amps, a bigger, more powerful controller would produce better acceleration, but not better top speed. For a better top speed the motor would need to have been wound to a higher KV, or fed a higher voltage, or laced in a larger wheel.

But, there is a possibility that speed is limited by controller program. We don’t know that, until we know the motor Kv, that is determined by the winding pattern of the copper coil. Different winding patterns are producing different ‘speed by volt’ (Kv). If the motor has a higher Kv than the speed attained with the voltage that it is fed, only then we can presume that the controller is set to limit speed. It is not uncommon that controllers have a speed limitation, that is coded by the manufacturer and can be unlocked using this code.

Sorry for the mistake, I was distracted into thinking that your controller was a Kelly.
User manual, software, detailed specs, and wiring diagrams for your controller can be dowloaded from Sabvoton website.

 

[makzinations]

Thanks for your further explaination MadRhino!

Question to others:

Could somebody supply me and @Stupidgeniuss with the Sabvoton SVMC 72080 Wiring Diagram on where to hook up the following components:

• 3 Speed Switch

• eLock (orangeIgnition)

• Reverse Wire (Optional, not entirely needed for myself)

@MadRhino, unfortunately the PCB is NOT coded and their Sabvoton website doens't supply this diagram...

 

[Stupidgeniuss]

Hey guys still missing some information here and would really appreciate a reply, thanks for your time !

 

[John in CR]

It sounds like something could be artificially limiting your speed, and while it's normal for acceleration to diminish near the upper range of speeds it should feel gradual not abrupt. The reason a motor can't put out max power near top speed is due to BEMF (Back ElectroMotive Force) which is the motor pushing back electrically against the current coming from the controller. Field weakening helps fight against that to allow the motor to run to higher rpm.

To find out what if anything is limiting you near the top end, you have to first find what the motor naturally will run with the wheel off the ground with the battery at full charge. Turn the field weakening off and FW current to 0. Set all speed limits to 100%, including the low speed. Then with the wheel off the ground, see what the maximum speed of your motor is at that rpm. Try adjusting the max voltage from the throttle in the controller software to see if that makes any difference. Then try field weakening and/or setting speed limits to %'s greater than 100% if the software permits. To get much more than 80kph while riding, you need to see no load speeds higher than 90-100kph, and if playing around with program settings doesn't get you there, then the only thing left is to increase battery voltage.

 

[makzinations]

It sounds like something could be artificially limiting your speed, and while it's normal for acceleration to diminish near the upper range of speeds it should feel gradual not abrupt. The reason a motor can't put out max power near top speed is due to BEMF (Back ElectroMotive Force) which is the motor pushing back electrically against the current coming from the controller. Field weakening helps fight against that to allow the motor to run to higher rpm.

To find out what if anything is limiting you near the top end, you have to first find what the motor naturally will run with the wheel off the ground with the battery at full charge. Turn the field weakening off and FW current to 0. Set all speed limits to 100%, including the low speed. Then with the wheel off the ground, see what the maximum speed of your motor is at that rpm. Try adjusting the max voltage from the throttle in the controller software to see if that makes any difference. Then try field weakening and/or setting speed limits to %'s greater than 100% if the software permits. To get much more than 80kph while riding, you need to see no load speeds higher than 90-100kph, and if playing around with program settings doesn't get you there, then the only thing left is to increase battery voltage.

Hi John,

Thanks a lot for your extensive explanation and that was very clear indeed. I will change those settings according to your explanation and will report back ASAP.

Second question, still: can somebody hook me and @StupidGeniuss up with the Sabvoton SVMC 7280/72080 Wiring Diagram for above features?