new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[DingusMcGee]

john61ct,

Are you going to be the yellow jerseyed human that drives the Rholoff to the upper end of its capacity?

Your set up has no gears on the motor side? but will you be using generic bike parts on th motor side?

Why spend the money for a Rholoff?

 

[Gab]

The cyclone thread is from 2015. Wow how time flies. I see it becoming less popular now, hard to get and keep running all that stuff and there’s better choices like cyc and lightning rods for those who’ve learned to figure it out with the cyclone

This c3000w mid drive kit is still probably the best high power mid kit if only it was put together better than cyclone straps and flimsey mount plates... it's a lot more powerful than a bbshd. It's a lot quieter than the CYC ...and it's lighter and more compact than the Lightning rod.. and who needs a bigger motor and power of the LR when this has enough power to strip out the freeborn hub lol and best of all its multi speed mid drive unlike the single speed SURRON .. which means a smaller motor and battery weight has similar performance to a lot more powerful single speed mid drive.

 

[Gorillazilla]

Absolutely the Cyclone needs a few tweaks to unlock its full potential.

If you have suggestions keep poking Paco over at Cyclone with emails https://www.cyclone-tw.com/contactus

The jockey wheel assembly could also use a little improvement, round off the square edges and black annodise them so they don't stand out as looking so diy


Strangely enough my Cyclone 3kw does not have the little speed sensor that detects the magnet on your wheel spokes as it rotates, and I see no plug on the controller to plug one either...


How does the Cyclone detect your speed? GPS? As I want to set a limit.

 

[Ins0mniac]

I didn't bother with the stock motor mount from the start. Picked up the LA ebike mount. Side plates are the same thickness as stock 3 and 5 mm, but 4 screws each not 2. But the solid chunk of aluminum makes for a solid mount for sure. It's pricey but, I know when I can't do better vs. time trying, have other things to do, you know. So I feel it was worth it. I's a bild in progress so i'll have more to report later. I have the room and I hope I can pull off this lay down low motor mounting position. It's inside the chain that powers the rear but there is room so the chains don't touch. Does anyone know how the brake switches work/install on the are sold for the cyclone? The ones that you can add to your existing brakes and Luna sells them, plug right in etc,. Unable to find much info on them.

Forgive me if the pictures don't post.

Rob

Does anyone have a link to this mount? I would appreciate it. Looking to tension my cyclone without a tensioner as that seems to fail every so often.

 

[Skaiwerd]

This mount is long gone. No longer being made or sold. It was pricey and there were complaints. If you needed it and could justify its expense then you went for it. Not to many, or any company in the USA is bothering with the cyclone or it’s accessories anymore. If you want a mount that differs from what you get in the kit then you have to make it yourself.

I was thinking of going to a chain tensioner because I’m getting tired of horizontal dropouts and the washers used to adjust the brake caliper in relation to where the wheel ends up because of the chain because of the gearing. A 40mm long dropout slot is barely long enough as you can end up anywhere, a chain is only attachable in certain spots so for versatility a long slot is needed. Plus thru axels are where it’s going if you want modern wheels.

 

[electric_nz]

You could email gng and see if they will sell you just the mount

https://www.gngebike.com/gng-2019-3000w

 

[Sattva Ram]

I hope someone can help me sorry if my questions been answered but i dont want to flick through so much.

I want cyclone with regen. Now my first question is whether the motor itself can do regen? Unfortunately i had a my1020 bldc for my scooter but the motor itself is horrible it has so much drag that it brakes the scooter as if it was regening yet zero amps go back to the battery. Very very coggy just by spinning it with hand the scooter is hard to even push. Can someone tell me that the cyclone spins freely as a normal motor should? I'm so afraid of this after my ordeal with the my1020. I dont want to buy another dud. Mybe cyclone shat off making a proper regen able motor for it was designed for freewheel anyway..

I want the 6kw version. Is the bicycle chain enough? Seems way too weak for such power to me. Some long term experience would be gr8 with bicycle chain.

If the bicycle chain seems good enough i'll weld up the rear sprocket so i can have regen. At least this is my "easy" plan.

Alternatively i buy the non geared version and drive it from the left side with a proper 415 chain. But i need to know whether the motor itself has no inherent drag like my tty my1020 so it can do regen.

 

[Aaron Andrusko]

Hey folks! I'm building an electric quad with a cyclone drive. If you ever need to mount this motor to a flat surface instead of a BB etc, get two of these plates. Perfect fit and strong like a donkey.

 

[DtiK]

I hope someone can help me sorry if my questions been answered but i dont want to flick through so much.

I want cyclone with regen. Now my first question is whether the motor itself can do regen?

Yes if you have controller which can do regen. I have cyclone 3kw and use regen, works great. you will probably find my posts related to the regen in this thread when you go back in pages.

Unfortunately i had a my1020 bldc for my scooter but the motor itself is horrible it has so much drag that it brakes the scooter as if it was regening yet zero amps go back to the battery. Very very coggy just by spinning it with hand the scooter is hard to even push. Can someone tell me that the cyclone spins freely as a normal motor should? I'm so afraid of this after my ordeal with the my1020. I dont want to buy another dud. Mybe cyclone shat off making a proper regen able motor for it was designed for freewheel anyway..

There is some resistance with cyclone. I have a freewheels of front and rear thrown to bin, but I can still pedal the bike even if the electricity is off. It's like pedaling up a gentle hill all the time.

I want the 6kw version. Is the bicycle chain enough? Seems way too weak for such power to me. Some long term experience would be gr8 with bicycle chain.

Best of the best bicycle chains are ok, for example KMC E101 EPT. Don't bother with cheap chains, they just dont last with cyclone if you use full power.

If the bicycle chain seems good enough i'll weld up the rear sprocket so i can have regen. At least this is my "easy" plan.

Works. You need to delete Cyclone's freewheel also. (Convert to solid sprocket)

 

[Sattva Ram]

Thanks but my question has been answered in the meanwhile. I saw a video of a cyclone benchtested without gear and it spins down nicely no cogging like my stupid my1020...seems fully regen able.

I wont bother with the bicycle setup. Very precarious system. 3 stage reduction is just bonkers efficiencywise. Even if some is gained back by the gear changing. But shifting on an electric vehicle is just untenable waaay too much hassle i dont want that...Also lotta fragile parts in the system. I will do the left side direct drive with a 10-92 25h chain setup first. However cyclone is still open robbery the 6kw no gear version costs more than the 165 qs which is a far better motor. And there's hardly any data about the cyclone. No efficiency curve nothing...cyclone seems like a dodgy company. But i just cant find ANYTHING on the market that fits on a bicycle near the BB. I wanted the qs 165 first but waay too big for left side drive...The cyclone is a very similar construction tho as the 165 qs so let's hope it's similarly good. I'd be interested in the lamination thickness of the cyclone tho..Seems i have no choice i gotta swallow the overpriced cyclone bitter pill

 

[Ugothakd]

Thanks but my question has been answered in the meanwhile. I saw a video of a cyclone benchtested without gear and it spins down nicely no cogging like my stupid my1020...seems fully regen able.

I wont bother with the bicycle setup. Very precarious system. 3 stage reduction is just bonkers efficiencywise. Even if some is gained back by the gear changing. But shifting on an electric vehicle is just untenable waaay too much hassle i dont want that...Also lotta fragile parts in the system. I will do the left side direct drive with a 10-92 25h chain setup first. However cyclone is still open robbery the 6kw no gear version costs more than the 165 qs which is a far better motor. And there's hardly any data about the cyclone. No efficiency curve nothing...cyclone seems like a dodgy company. But i just cant find ANYTHING on the market that fits on a bicycle near the BB. I wanted the qs 165 first but waay too big for left side drive...The cyclone is a very similar construction tho as the 165 qs so let's hope it's similarly good. I'd be interested in the lamination thickness of the cyclone tho..Seems i have no choice i gotta swallow the overpriced cyclone bitter pill

Oh sorry, I didn't see where QS motor sold a full mid drive kit with brackets for pretty much any bottom bracket, can you link me to that?

I also didn't realize cyclone sold motors, I thought they sold ebike kits.

 

[Sattva Ram]

I give fk all about ebike kits. I want a proper mid drive with proper chain and regen not a frankeinstein monster. The comparison with qs was because i have zero interest in those horrible kits those are for noobs not willing to put in the effort to make a truly good bike because they dont want to weld and modify too much and so i'll buy a standalone motor anyway. Alas the qs is way too big and unmountable so i'll have to settle for the cyclone without gear option. There's simply no motor on the market that is suitable for this purpose but the cyclone my hands are tied. (Not that cyclone couldnt offer a left side drive option but i guess it's not official because of the brake issues.... They say the motor has not enough torque for 1 stage reduction. But with 9-10x reduction it should be fine by my estimation it'd have around 75kph top speed which is very decent and ideal for a bike like this so it seems doable to me.)

 

[A-DamW]

I want a proper mid drive with proper chain and regen not a frankeinstein monster.............so i'll buy a standalone motor anyway............There's simply no motor on the market that is suitable for this purpose but the cyclone my hands are tied..............

Don't suppose you have seen this?:
https://lightning-rods10.mybigcommerce.com/

Relevant ES thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57720

 

[Sattva Ram]

Thanks man but for 800 shipping i rather pass. Also it doesnt spin enough it needs 100 volt to be good. I have to stick to 72volts i want to use an ML sabvoton for it. Still the cyclone seems like the only option in town. It spins 7500 at 72 that will mean 6000 loaded and if i use a 10T t8f chain and 91 back and maybe go down to 24 inch i'll have a 75kph top speed which is completely normal i dont know what torque issues cyclone is talkin about...and if need be i can make a custom rear sprocket too cause 91 seems like the biggest off the shelf on ali and i can go with 26 inch...(tho i dont know what wheel size will be okay i want to strap a fast charger on the downtube from below too so who knows what wheel will fit at any rate the frame is 27.5 with horseshoe rear brake mount so i can use horseshoe rear maybe it's good for a 26 inch but for 24 i'll have to weld the mounts downwards for sure or just fkin ditch the rear brake...it doesnt seem essential on a bike like this tho i dont want too strong a regen replacing the complete rear brake either it has its drawbax...we will see...)

 

[DingusMcGee]

Sattva Ram,

75 kmph and ditch the rear brake?

Did you take tumbling class in high school or was it just a crash course?

 

[DingusMcGee]

Swapping out the Cyclone OEM square wave 6k 80 amp motor controller for a Votol EM-100 sine wave 100amp controller

The re-wiring is quite simple — match all colors and then swap the blue and green phase wires. Not knowing this I made some unplug-able connectors for the Halls and Phase wires.







Supply wattage went from 84 x 80 = 6720 watts to 84v x 100amp = 8400 watts. Yikes, these Cyclone motors don’t have IPM magnets. Can they take the added amps??? Hell yes.

Oh Brother, extra heat = extra amps x duration. My use: short, technical steep hill climbs not the Pike’s Peak 13 mi hill race.

Will my motor’s non IPM magnets fly off the rotor? The rider’s bike motor’s rpm will not see the touted crucial 7000 rpm on these trails & hills.

The bike has more acceleration and is quieter running with the Votol controller. Votol EM100 $158 Cyclone 80 amp $185.

And the removed 80 amp controller?? Try it on the Cyclone 3k.

 

[DtiK]

Those yellow crimp connectors are weakest link for 100A They are specced to ~28A continous, though can hold twice at short times without melting.

Recommendation: Genuine Anderson connectors, never problems

 

[DingusMcGee]

DtiK,

Thanks for taking notice of this detail of using the yellow crimp connectors etc.. Yes, XT90 connectors are likely the best but they are less suited for wiring reconfigurations like the matchup of controller/motor phase and Hall wires because of the necessity for soldering/unsoldering them. You readers/builders now know the wiring config so use ‘em for this matchup. If you want 3 open-air connectors, which run cooler than paired wires connectors, you will need 3 pairs of dual wire XT90 connectors for the 3 phase wires. If I had been using 3 XT90 connectors for the phase wire match up no unsoldering would have be necessary.

But the 28 amp continuous rating for the yellow terminals likely applies when only standard crimping of them has been done? These 3 home made yellow Phase connections have been soldered with high temp solder and anti-ox conducting grease has been applied to their slide together areas. BID I used this same connector design for the Crystalite and Cromotor hub motors running over 100 amps. So far these have held up to 79.48 amps as measured by the CycleAnalyst.

I was expecting to see amperage use closer to 100 amps on WOT accelerations but this bike has a low velocity uptake rate set on the CycleAnalyst Throttle Out configuration. It has snowed overnight here so this change and test are not possible with low traction.

Speaking of Phase connections, the 3 wire plug used on the 80 amp controller is not an open-air connector but the plug looks like the same plastic used for XT90 connectors — maybe not “genuine” though? The 3 wire plug could not handle 80 amps and from Cyclone’s website it looks to be no longer used.



The 18Kw Cyclone motor/controller kit uses open air connectors that look similar to mine.

 

[mattnat]

hay all

how does the 3000 w cyclone do with 36v 12ah? I realize i like to peddle and don't need to go that fast on urban side street commutes. I would like mellow hills to feel like a bit like a slight downhill on a normal bike.

would I end up with an efficient 1000w at peddling rpm? what gearing to get from cyclone?


here is the link to the battery pack
https://www.affordableebikes.ca/products/36v-12-8ah-eco-pack-used-tested

matt

 

[DingusMcGee]

Will the Cy 3k run on 36V? I tried 9s LiPo at 38.4 volts. Rear wheel moves with some traction using this batt combo.

Here is some motor math.

The 3000 watt rating comes about by using 40 amps at 72v = 2880 watts = power

Or power = V x V / R. So V x V = 72 x 72 = 5184 , the motor resistance staying the same for 36 volts, V x V = 36 x 36 = 1296 which is 1/4 of 5184. So at 36 volt you will have 1/4 the max power = 750 watts power at 36v.

From your declared riding style and demands a 750 watt HUB MOTOR would work fine, be cheaper, much easier to install and work fine on 36v. Add 300 watts for human effort and the 1000 watts you seek is in the ball park

 

[DingusMcGee]

Changing to non OEM controllers may require resolving which Hall wires plug you will employ.

If you are going to Fardriver or an Siaecosys controllers (these are sine wave or FOC) they use a 6 pin water proof connector that is much easier to swap pins than the Cyclone plug when you have to reconfigure the Hall/phase wires.

On eBay see:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Way-Pin-Automotive-Car-Connector-Plug-Electrical-Sealed-Waterproof/195331575383?var=495101629749&pageci=3b92a740-1908-410e-b796-88f35e29b9f3&redirect=mobile

 

[pwd]

Unfortunately, Sick Bike Parts has closed their business. Does this mean we can no longer get the White Industries freewheels (aka Heavy Duty and Ultra Heavy Duty) and associated parts?

 

[DingusMcGee]

Paul of SBP told me in December that he might continue selling items such as the White Industries hubs on eBay.

My last texts with him were in Dec. this # may still work:

(phone number removed at phone owner's request)

 

[pwd]

Paul of SBP told me in December that he might continue selling items such as the White Industries hubs on eBay.

My last texts with him were in Dec. this # may still work:

XXX XXX XXXX

That would be excellent, thanks for the info.

 

[pwd]

I'm at a crossroads with this motor. It had been working great for nearly 12 000 km over 3.5 years. It has developed a clunking sound while under load which I initially though might be the bearings or my freewheel crank etc... I have replaced nearly everything in a effort to fix the clunking sound:

all bearings in motor (including bearings on nylon gears etc...)
new crank freewheel
new motor freewheel
new chainrings
new cassette

the test I do is apply a small amount of rear brake to apply a load and then give it a small amount of throttle and the clucking sound is replicated. The clunking sound seems to be related to the rotation of the motor. Any ideas?