New Panasonic Cell ncr18650bd 3200mah

[savaoaknyc]

Hi Guys,
here is what i've found while lurking on the chinese flashlight forum.It's a new panasonic cell,apparently still not official on the market, but never the less here the discharge test in pictures.Probably the next tesla cell don't know,but at 3 c discharge the temp goes to 68 celsius.What is the temperature of ncr18650pd at 3c discharge does someone know it???

Greets Sava

 

[Hillhater]

What is the temperature of ncr18650d at 3c discharge does someone know it???

cannot find any temp data.
How is this "bd" cell improved over the 3400mAhr "b" cell ?

 

[cwah]

Wow, i hope this cell won't go too expensive

 

[savaoaknyc]

How is this "bd" cell improved over the 3400mAhr "b" cell?

I guess in the internal resistance here some more picures

here the original link, have to be registred in order to see the images-http://www.shoudian.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=361465
at 2c full discharge the temperature rises up to 57 degree celsius
at 3c up to 68

 

[friendly1uk]

Seems good for cold environments. Won't they die off quite early though at such temperatures? If one is hitting that when sit in free air, how is it not going to hit 100 when in a pack (there rated max)

 

[circuit]

If it heats up that bad at 2C, I think it is obvious that it will only hold like 1.5C average in the pack at MAX.
Any data on how these hold quick charging? In my tests, NCR18650B died very quickly (50 cycles) when charged at 1C. 0.5C was damaging as well, it should not be charged quicker than C/4...

 

[spinningmagnets]

There is also a Panasonic NCR-18650-B that claims 3400-mAh. A friend referred it from a flashlight forum, low C-rate, with a hopefully long run-time...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PANASONIC...-18650-NEW-PROTECTION-PCB-JAPAN-/370925377492

 

[dbaker]

Do you believe this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8x-18650-3-7V-5000mAh-Li-ion-Rechargeable-Battery-GTL-Blue-For-Flashlight-Torch/121199217160?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D389%26meid%3D4138974359969172169%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D370925377492%26

 

[flathill]

so if you compare the pd and bd versions both are capable of around 9-10 amps continuous. you cant compare c rated for different capacity 18650 cells. these are reject cells anyhow.

bd is basically a drop in replacement for the pd cell in the model s with a 10% increase in energy. model x and model s awd should have 94kwh pack. the bd does have a little higher ir which is why the coolant pumps on the model s have been upgraded

 

[spinningmagnets]

Do you believe this:

Just for laughs a friend bought something similar (5000mAh), they provided about 1/5th of the claimed capacity. A great example of ridiculous performance claims from generic parts being sold by an unknown vendor (who's business name probably changes once every couple of weeks, and likely has several business names at any given time)

 

[savaoaknyc]

If it heats up that bad at 2C, I think it is obvious that it will only hold like 1.5C average in the pack at MAX.
Any data on how these hold quick charging? In my tests, NCR18650B died very quickly (50 cycles) when charged at 1C. 0.5C was damaging as well, it should not be charged quicker than C/4...

these are probably quality rejected, who knows??Unfortunately there is no data on quick charge.The test has been done with this battery tester
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5.w4002-1829488789.16.muTmmy&id=13385129339
its really affordable and i intend to buy one and start testing some cells for cycle life etc...
They have done another cycle test on lg d1 3000mah cells with very similar results to yours, but with 0.8c charge to 4.35 and discharge to 3.0=after 300 cycles 91% .
http://www.shoudian.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=370762&extra=page%3D1%26filter%3Dtypeid%26typeid%3D1%26typeid%3D1

So yea, here what i miss on endless sphere are exactly those type of cycle test of different batteries, suitable for pedelecs and ebikes.

 

[district9prawn]

If the capacity at 3c (9A) is 3.1-3.2Ah as in that discharge graph, wouldn't you expect more capacity at the lower discharge rates?

 

[parabellum]

If the capacity at 3c (9A) is 3.1-3.2Ah as in that discharge graph, wouldn't you expect more capacity at the lower discharge rates?

This and Voltage does not droop that much, results in more usable energy output.

 

[circuit]

If it heats up that bad at 2C, I think it is obvious that it will only hold like 1.5C average in the pack at MAX.
Any data on how these hold quick charging? In my tests, NCR18650B died very quickly (50 cycles) when charged at 1C. 0.5C was damaging as well, it should not be charged quicker than C/4...

these are probably quality rejected, who knows??Unfortunately there is no data on quick charge.The test has been done with this battery tester
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5.w4002-1829488789.16.muTmmy&id=13385129339
its really affordable and i intend to buy one and start testing some cells for cycle life etc...
They have done another cycle test on lg d1 3000mah cells with very similar results to yours, but with 0.8c charge to 4.35 and discharge to 3.0=after 300 cycles 91% .
http://www.shoudian.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=370762&extra=page%3D1%26filter%3Dtypeid%26typeid%3D1%26typeid%3D1

So yea, here what i miss on endless sphere are exactly those type of cycle test of different batteries, suitable for pedelecs and ebikes.

Thank you very much for this information. I was quite confident with my tests, but secretly was looking for confirmation
There is one important parameter to note: In my tests, "3000 mAh" cells started at ~2750 mAh. I thought this is because I was charging it up to 4.3V instead of 4.35. However your link confirms that maximum capacity at those charge and discharge rates is actually 2800 mAh, even at full 4.35V. I guess it should reach full 3000 mAh as declared, however 2800 probably is the real value to use in our calculations for ebike application.

 

[Hillhater]

Is that meter reading in the photo of "23.1" the cell IR in Mohm ?
..if so that seems exceptional for a 18650.

 

[GUI13]

no in Watt ....

 

[jk1]

Has anyone used this cell? looks to be better then the 29e Samsung ?

 

[Gab]

This looks like a nice cell, better then the 29e this would make a realy good high capacity ebike pack, has anyone used these cells ?

 

[liveforphysics]

That won't be suitable for a Tesla.

68degC is hot. Unless they are running some of the new high temp solvent blends in the electrolyte, 68degC is breaking it down.

No leaked spec sheet? MSDS shipped with samples?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

These do look interesting. I was keenly looking at the ncr18650b 3400mah for my recumbent build.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=57751#p899059
But I'm hoping to push up to 30A in a 5P config, so could be pushing the limit's of that cell.

These NCR18650bd 3200mah look like they might be able to handle more discharge current than the ncr18650b, so should last longer running at 5A+ per cell.
According to this site these cells are available now, and can mange up to 10A continuous discharge.
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1420/10001980/1674900

Only catch is they are a bit expensive currently at $8.50 per cell...at least from that site.

Cheers

 

[ARod1993]

Do you believe this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8x-18650-3-7V-5000mAh-Li-ion-Rechargeable-Battery-GTL-Blue-For-Flashlight-Torch/121199217160?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D389%26meid%3D4138974359969172169%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D370925377492%26

That auction is done, but check out its successor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/48x-3-7V-18650-GTL-Li-ion-5300mAh-Red-Rechargeable-Battery-for-LED-Torch-USA/111261256597?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23309%26meid%3D7297753356326402040%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D9834%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111181658702&rt=nc

44.4V nominal at 21.2Ah for $69.99, so something on the order of 7.4 cents per Wh. That said, apparently this brand of battery is fairly well known for what can charitably be referred to as "optimistic advertising" and so you're probably more likely to be spending 25-30 cents per actual usable Wh.

 

[999zip999]

5300 mah ?

 

[parabellum]

5300 mah ?

Yea, it is the supa dupa upgrade for 5000mah one! :lol:
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/GTL 18650 5000mAh (Blue) UK.html

P.S. I wonder how many mah are in now, assuming mathematic progression ~ 1100mah

 

[silviasol]

Do you believe this:

Just for laughs a friend bought something similar (5000mAh), they provided about 1/5th of the claimed capacity. A great example of ridiculous performance claims from generic parts being sold by an unknown vendor (who's business name probably changes once every couple of weeks, and likely has several business names at any given time)

Here is a way to check previous user names

http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=hot-rc

or

http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserIdHistory&requested=(enter current user name)

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Does anyone have any more info on this cell?
I noticed Panasonic have now also released the NCR18650PF which is 2900Mah, and claims 10A continuous discharge....might be a cheaper alternative.
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1420/10001980/1455000

And according to this thread:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/24719

The only thing i could find was the internal resistance change, and the chemistry change,
*
the PD is 22mΩ with a Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminium core,
*
the PF is 35mΩ with a Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide core.
*
From what i can tell, the new PF chemisty will be better for longer high drain applications and should be less prone to damage over time.

Cheers