New project. Trike, customer wants it to go fast

[rborger73]

Customer has race cars, but somehow 40mph is the goal for a trike. I'd build it with the idea that easy changes can make it go to 60 or 70mph. It's essentially a 3 wheel gokart with far less ability in the turns...Would he be happy with a 40mph gokart? I doubt it.

With no suspension the roads need to be pristine for high speed, because there's no easy weaving to avoid potholes like a bike. That's why riding bikes is often called "single track".

I think the 40mph was for a different trike. There are two builds, one is the race car guy, aiming 50mph + and getting there pretty fast, the other is going to be a long haul one with closer to 100 mile range, and top speed of 40mph.

What is purchased so far is an Adaptto mini E, Mxus 3t and the trike itself. I'm thinking 20s right now and see how it does. The fast one is just going to be for joy riding and to take to the track with them to play around. So I don't need a ton of capacity, makes it a little easier, though I would want as much capacity as is reasonable to keep the sag to a minimum. We'll see what it can do I guess. The long range one is going to be used to make cold calls for a driveway sealing business owner. Which I think is just an excellent use for a trike like this.

The racecar guy had many R/c lipo toys over the years as well, so not a lot of worry for him to maintain them correctly. He is really sharp. I non electrically pedaled it up the road the day the trike itself arrived. I showed him how to get in and out, and he gave it a try. He pedaled it right down the road and back. He came back and pointed out 3 or 4 things I was going to talk to him about straight away. He owns a mechanic shop as well. Owns a helicopter, Ultralights, got grounded by a couple jet fighters the week after 9/11 when he took his small engine plane up ignoring the no air travel thing.. lol He has owned a couple small electric cars over the years. Guy is in his 70's and I left the trike in the highest gear when I got off it. He pedaled off like it was in the easiest gear to pedal. Should be interesting to see what he does with it after I hand it over. He wants to turn it into a velo and build his own shell. I will probably help him with it to see what we can come up with. We live in good times for the ole electric vehicle lovers.

 

[macribs]

I almost feel like I should put 29er front rims and tires on this. I run a 29er front rim on my ebike, and a 26" rear with the hub in the rear. At speeds over 30mph there is a very strong gyroscopic effect with the steering. Since the 29er is spinning faster than the rear wheel. It noticebly helps control over steering, yet makes the bike handle much better. I don't know I'll have to think this over since I'm going to lose a lil on the overall profit. The 20" rim and tires just seem so dinky. 16" would have seemed like skateboard wheels. lol.

Those 29er will spin slower then the smaller rear wheel. And in turns inner front wheel will slow down even more.
If you will make this trike for hooligan style riding double wishbone/A-arm + individual suspension up front might be the best solution. Go for making this trike an all purpose vehicle (APV™) 8) with quality shocks and he can ride that trike even on dirt roads, trails and what not. You might get away with using light weight DH rear air shocks if client will only ride on paved roads. As the trike won't see air and jumps the suspension will not need huge travel, they just add to keep it ride smoother, safer and steer better at high speed.

IF budget is to tight to do double A-arm I then listen to Matt's suggestion and at least get a steering damper. But as the owner is into racing he should be well custom'd to pay premium for better design/racing quality parts. Why not convince him to go all in and spring for full suspension? Power the trike with Matts dual astro drive and the owner can go 80 + mph. Should be plenty fast and even comfortable with full suspension.

[youtube]j3_2KetDV4g[/youtube]

 

[MadRhino]

I always think trikes as drifting toys, or mobility vehicles. Yet it is true that a trike can be built to handle speed, sure not cheap.

... That's why riding bikes is often called "single track".

Racing terms: Single track is a timed race, while double track is an elimination.
Geographic terms: Single track is a narrow biking or hiking trail, while a double track is a fire road or jeep trail.
MTB wheel terms: Single track rim is generally 17 to 24mm lightweight DH racing rim, while double track is a wider 29+ mm, thick and heavy freeride rim.

 

[ebent]

macribs, nice work on the suspension. Please show a few pics of the trike.
Thanks

 

[macribs]

macribs, nice work on the suspension. Please show a few pics of the trike.
Thanks

Not my bike and not my work Just a vid to better explain the efficiency and in-complexity of double A-arm suspension. It is a time proven, hi performance setup used in hi cost snowmobiles, ATV's, racing cars, dune-blasters, automotive industries and what not. And yet those A-arms and spindles are possible to make from scratch in your garage. Paired with the right coilover suspension they can take big air, hair pin turns with uneven surface or even full out blast on dirt roads and fire lanes.

 

[recumpence]

I run my trikes at high speed without suspension. KMX frames are strong enough to handle the jarring. Of course, the rider may not be. :wink:

Matt

 

[wesnewell]

MXUS 3000 3T, 65A controller, 10ah 24s lipo, top speed 72mph for 11 miles.

 

[ebent]

macribs, do you have any pictures of your work?

 

[rborger73]

MXUS 3000 3T, 65A controller, 10ah 24s lipo, top speed 72mph for 11 miles.

So 20s with the Adaptto Mini E should be fairly close to 50 mph on a flat I'd guess then. I figured start with 20s, and if I need to up the voltage I have some room there still.

 

[macribs]

For fast e-trikes I would say suspension in form of cushy seat or tires is to lure yourself. Proper suspension will make a world of difference. Take a look at this full suspension trike there are even 3D drawing and files for the trike to download:

 

[rborger73]

First test run at 83v 20s 54.8 mph for a high coming down a small hill, was holding 47 to 50 mph on a flat. Was just on 5ah of 20s in 4s bricks. More tweaking to go.

People are way too hung up on the double pull brake for the front too. No rear brake for about 60 miles on 12s last week with no issues braking evenly. I love ES, but lot of over emphasized caution from users too much. lol Have to wait on a spacer for the rear disc to keep from marking up the side of the motor. Loving the adaptto, and the motor as well.

 

[Triketech]

For fast e-trikes I would say suspension in form of cushy seat or tires is to lure yourself. Proper suspension will make a world of difference. Take a look at this full suspension trike there are even 3D drawing and files for the trike to download:

Stein has done one up with the Wild One.

I've considered posting one of my trikes on Grabcad.

Hard to tell from the image, but the suspension geometry has 35% anti dive under braking and 40% anti-roll. Stein did just the opposite; his works pretty good off road and under 35 MPH, over that its a little too fluid without super stiff springs.

 

[docnjoj]

Unfortunately that was the solution earlier models like mine had. Super stiff springs. The work great on large dips but transmit a lot of road shock on regular small bumps and rocks. The Mad Max also has a narrower (stiffer) suspension, but it does roll through standard doorways. Always life's compromises.
otherDoc

 

[rborger73]

Little update pic.

 

[rborger73]

55.2 mph was hot off charger using 10Ah of 20s. I was actually going up a slight grade coming out of the driveway even.

 

[John in CR]

I thought you wanted fast. I guess being so low to the ground makes 55 seem fast though.

 

[rborger73]

I thought you wanted fast. I guess being so low to the ground makes 55 seem fast though.

lol Well 55.2 was going up a grade, with batteries shoved and strapped into a brake rotor box behind the seat, strapped in place with bungy cords. Plus no steering damper yet, so that made it feel much more fast. 50mph was the goal. That was with no real tweaking yet, and just using the adaptto auto setup. From what I understand I should be able to get a tad more than that. It did feel pretty awesome to be going 25 or faster, kick the throttle and have it push me back in the seat.

I think since it weighed less than 60lbs at the time of the 55mph run, still pretty cool. I'm aware of your speeds. hehe.

My daily ebike only tops out at 30ish on a flat, but I've got 10,800 or so miles on it since last year, and do 55 to 60 miles a day on it most days. Roughly 1,800 bucks in gas or more saved, and more than enough egrins over the year to cover the rest of the cost I had in it. I'm in the 55mph club, and the 10,000 mile club (in less than 16 months), that has to get me a little credit.

As much as I like the KMX trike, I do believe it is time to build a jig for the next one, buy components more suited, and slightly adjust the geometry. I want to increase the ground height of the seat, while keeping the batteries low to the ground. Have a few designs I'm kicking around. Probably have a fully custom built trike by next year.

 

[rborger73]

Hmm I see FB lets links expire. Well here are a few of the latest update pics. Should have the body all painted white to match this week. Hoping the seat cover can be emroidered this week with logo, and adding in vinyl side panels as well.

Rear doors are hinged and spring loaded and also latch. They aren't quite done yet. Just the mock ups. Haven't posted for a while figured I'd add a few pics. Hoping to deliver it shortly. This is the first prototype for a repeatable custom etrike build.

Added a bit more of what it will look with full branding. So just add white paint, shiny matching rear doors and some vinyl side panels on the seat cover, and that is the finished model. Probably won't have .com on the final model. Left on more for promo

 

[macribs]

Wow you have guts man. Building a 60 mph trike for a client without any suspension? Will frame hold up when client hit potholes going >50 mph?
Is that really a KMX trike tricked out with some battery pouch or did you do it from scratch? I can see there are some tubing for the battery tray.
Guess what I wonder is if you did modifications to a KMX or purpose build from scratch? If this is a KMX there are front suspension spindles custom made for sale on the sale thread. Might be worth considering, given the high top speed.

 

[rborger73]

Wow you have guts man. Building a 60 mph trike for a client without any suspension? Will frame hold up when client hit potholes going >50 mph?
Is that really a KMX trike tricked out with some battery pouch or did you do it from scratch? I can see there are some tubing for the battery tray.
Guess what I wonder is if you did modifications to a KMX or purpose build from scratch? If this is a KMX there are front suspension spindles custom made for sale on the sale thread. Might be worth considering, given the high top speed.

He is a racecar builder and driver. He is aware of the risks. I know about the 800.00 suspension upgrade, and it will be considered. These are custom builds so up to the customer. It is a kmx frame for this one. May do a few more that way, but after that I'll be building a jig as I want to add some height to the trike, and slightly widen it's stance. This one is fully all one body now and ridiculously more rigid than just the kmx frame. I've had it up to 60, and right now it is of course a bit scary, but very stable. Still considering adding a steering dampner, but the customer knows already he may end up wanting it. If I build anything non custom and start a line of ebikes and trikes I'll keep it 40mph or under. Have to see if I can get any business to see if it is worth doing something larger scale. Do have a few investors that could put big money in if I get them in a good mood, but for now just one at a time, but I have the build down and everything is working perfectly. The extra strength of the sort of unified body setup if you will, really made a big difference. I'm really, really not wanting to deliver this. And I've only got to ride it a few times, but it is my new favorite thing.. lol

 

[rborger73]

The entire bottom deck is 3/16" diamond plating, or maybe quarter... and it attaches to the stock frame, then all the aluminum strips are attached from the seat frame down to the diamond plated deck. Then all the aluminum strips are attached via rivets to all the others with the sheet metal riveted to each strip. Additional aluminum angle in the rear connects the seat frame to the bottom frame. This this is a tank, and I can still hold it out at chest level in front of me off the ground. Around 65lbs.

 

[dogman dan]

Keep it non toxic please.

 

[rborger73]

Ya honestly think I'm done contributing here. Constantly have these "know it all" types running their yaps. Ran their yaps about my ebike build too. That has 13,000 + miles on it now. Gets a little annoying when you are trying to share your work, and just always have a negative element replying.

 

[rborger73]

Ya honestly think I'm done contributing here. Constantly have these "know it all" types running their yaps. Ran their yaps about my ebike build too. That has 13,000 + miles on it now. Gets a little annoying when you are trying to share your work, and just always have a negative element replying.

Not keen on having my posts deleted either Dogman. Delete the one that started issues, my post took time to write, not a fan of having my time deleted..

 

[farmerjoe99]

Very cool build, thanks for sharing!
How are you liking the Mxus 3T? and what size battery pack did you put in it?
I like your adaptto screen mount. interested to know what front brakes you used
and if you ended up using a steering dampener? if you did could you post some details on that.
Interesting battery box never seen one quite like it, would love to see some more pics.