New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[Retrorockit]

I f that were true then wouldn't the Watts be high per speed /power produced?

 

[Manbeer]

coming from a factory firmware example so without temp readouts and watts etc, i did 20 miles at 20mph in level 3 of 4 recently, 60 degree day, mtb with risers, 26x2.1s, total weight probably 200-210. no thermal and motor barely warm to the touch. It's going to be cold the next couple of days, but once I have a slightly warmer day I'll give it an hour long hell ride with the assist turned all the way up and 250ish human watts to see what happens

edit: What about cutting a hole in the housing and installing a blower motor like one from a computer? Depending on the voltage you could probably rig it up To use the 6v light output So when you activate the lights from the display it would turn on the fan

 

[Retrorockit]

coming from a factory firmware example so without temp readouts and watts etc, i did 20 miles at 20mph in level 3 of 4 recently, 60 degree day, mtb with risers, 26x2.1s, total weight probably 200-210. no thermal and motor barely warm to the touch. It's going to be cold the next couple of days, but once I have a slightly warmer day I'll give it an hour long hell ride with the assist turned all the way up and 250ish human watts to see what happens

edit: What about cutting a hole in the housing and installing a blower motor like one from a computer? Depending on the voltage you could probably rig it up To use the 6v light output So when you activate the lights from the display it would turn on the fan

It would work for cooling, but then water and dirt would become a problem for the electronics in there.
The motor being barely warm to the touch is because you're not touching the motor, just the cover, which also is not touching the motor. If the cover was touching the motor (by metal,and or thermal pads), then it would get hot by helping cool the motor.

 

[ilu]

I've been riding with the 52V stock firmware using 36V motor with thermal pads, cut side cover and few small cooling fins in the recess below the cut side cover. In the winter with heavy 27.5x3.0" studded tires I usually use level 3, which reaches max power quite easily, probably because my torque sensor calibration sucks. I have throttle, or actually just a switch for full power throttle, which does not make much difference when activated during a steep ascent if I'm already pedalling with level 3 assist.

There's no long steep climbs around here, but often I ride up to 2-3 hours straight, using ~90% of my 600wh battery. Temperature has been between -10 and +10 celsius. But the motor housing has never been warm enough to melt the snow that it gathers.

 

[Retrorockit]

coming from a factory firmware example so without temp readouts and watts etc, i did 20 miles at 20mph in level 3 of 4 recently, 60 degree day, mtb with risers, 26x2.1s, total weight probably 200-210. no thermal and motor barely warm to the touch. It's going to be cold the next couple of days, but once I have a slightly warmer day I'll give it an hour long hell ride with the assist turned all the way up and 250ish human watts to see what happens

edit: What about cutting a hole in the housing and installing a blower motor like one from a computer? Depending on the voltage you could probably rig it up To use the 6v light output So when you activate the lights from the display it would turn on the fan

The motor being barely warm to the touch is because you're not touching the motor, just the cover, which also is not touching the motor. If the cover was touching the motor (by metal,and or thermal pads), then it would get hot by helping cool the motor.
The fan is not a bad idea except dirt and water could become an issue, and a 6V fan that small wouldn't do very much cooling on a 750W motor. Even a 65W computer will usually have a 90mmx90mmx25mm 12V. fan cooling it Almost as big as the TSDZ2 motor itself.

 

[andrea_104kg]

I have had this engine for 4 years and have worked a lot on it, I too was about to leave it for too high a temperature. Then with the thermal pads everything was back under control. I am heavy and I do MTB but the engine hardly exceeds 75 °offroad, on road 60°. But lately with the firmware version of mbrusa 20.01c I have detected a huge temperature increase
In a test climb (2km with peaks over 20%) with firmware 20.01b the temperature does not exceed 67 °, with the new version more than 93 ° ...
So I advise you to give up everything first, put an old version of the software and try again. In addition to installing the thermal pads. I'm sure you fix the temperature difference with the old firmware is huge.

 

[shirk]

Something's not right with your unit.

Can you flash the factory firmware back onto it? Or purchase a factory controller with the the stock firmware and test it.

 

[jbalat]

Something's not right with your unit.

Can you flash the factory firmware back onto it? Or purchase a factory controller with the the stock firmware and test it.

Very good advice. Before you do any mods to your bike you need to know how it runs in stock condition.. If there is something wrong you can get a replacement.. Once its modified there is a lot of finger pointing at what went wrong.. I realise in this case you may have bought it already modified but go back to the shop and flash it back to stock just to make sure the hardware is working properly

 

[Blacklite]

I'm baffled... either this motor sucks, or something is wrong with mine. Rode the bike to work this morning again... this stupid piece of shit start overheating 3.7mi into my ride, at assist level 6, while maintaining 150-200w of motor power. My ride to work is 6.1 miles total with an elevation gain of 164' total, which mostly comes in the last 3 miles. Ambient temps on my ride were

I definitely regret buying this thing. The information in this thread made it seem at least capable of 200-250w nominal over an hour, and in my experience, it's not capable of anything close to that.

3.7 miles in, and it's starting to shut down due to heat...

.4 miles later, it's toast. been running at 100w of power since then.

I shut it off for 1 mile and just pedaled on my own.

From here, even letting it pull 50-100w of output was causing it to overheat.

So yeah... Where does that leave me? This thing sucks. I'm a tinkerer and I'm for sure willing to mess around with something to make it better or get the most out of it. However, I've got around $1,200 into this conversion and I don't even see a shred of capacity in this thing for any real cycling usage. I'm without a doubt, better off as a cyclist, and even a commuter without this thing on my bike.

I guess what bums me out the most is that I over spent in this case to buy the thing pre-setup for eco-ebike. Those guys did a great job, and provided some of the best pre-purchase customer service I've experienced in a long while (bike industry or otherwise). However, this motor is purely a letdown and if I could do it all over again, I'd just forgo buying a tsdz2 entirely.

So where to now? I'm going to tear this thing down, look for anything obvious and install the temp mods... Once that doesn't work (I'm pretty certain it's not going to work, I can't even get this thing to do 4 miles without overheating)... I guess I'll take it off the bike and sell it. I wish it were at least good enough to sell the bike whole on craigslist and profit off of the Santacruz name and lack of availability... but I can't in good conscious do that with how utterly shit this thing is.

I was running the same firmware and motor from eco-ebike... took about an hour of riding to get to high temperatures. Did the heat mods and it’s much better, but for my use would have been ok without. Very strange it’s getting so hot so quickly, I would expect it to take a lot longer to get hot. Does it feel hot? If I’m doing the conversion correctly 179degF is 80degC... I only managed to get my motor that hot once, and it was definitely very hot to the touch on the outside. Even though thermal coupling from the motor to the case is terrible, still might give an idea if you are actually reaching those temps or it’s some sort of sensor malfunction.

I’ve only used the OSF in metric units, so have to keep trying to convert the values in your screenshots. Most (?) on this forum seem to work in metric... maybe you could change the unit setting so it’s easier for your screen pics to make sense?

 

[casainho]

Which firmware are you using? I see reports of that issue of overheating with some new firmware.

I am on 1.1.0. I do have field weakening enabled and my cadence is ranging from 80-110. I am wondering if I should disable that... To be honest, I sorta struggle with the explanation of exactly what field weakening is doing. It's a bit over my head at this exact moment.

Maybe this motor is not for you, maybe you should buy another Ebike with a motor from some of the well known brands.

Here in Portugal the law got recently an update and the ebikes can now have a motor up to 1000 watts but the speed limit remains to 25 kms/h, so, anyone can safely have a bigger motor but I am pretty sure this change on the law is to target the cargo bikes <3

Meaning you're saying that this motor isn't for me because I lack the ability/knowledge to get it working properly or that it's not for me because of things specific to my usage and cycling style?

If it's not for me because of ability/knowledge... then I'd suggest it's not for most of the people buying it. I have done pretty absurd amounts of research on this thing basically reading anything that was available. I doubt most, would go down that road and while there are plenty (damn near most) that have more knowledge of electric drive systems... This isn't my first rodeo with engineering, projects, bicycles etc.

If it's not for me due to reasons regarding cycling... that's interesting. I am just struggling because I'm not totally outside of the realm of usage and window of normal conditions here. I didn't expect to be able to have this thing hammer along at 500w all day... I picked up on that much from reading every single post in this thread before buying the motor. I did however expect to be able to motor along at assist level 5-6-7ish at 150-250w of motor power and 150-250w of human power without issue. I'm not sure if that's expecting too much out of diy ebike kits?

If others are happy with this motor but you not, maybe you should try the other alternatives. I think is up to you if you want to spend your next money on any other motor or keep trying with this one. If you want to keep trying this one, I would suggest you to buy a fully new TSDZ2 and test it.

 

[Waynemarlow]

On road bikes for commuting without a sweat, the Bafang BBS02 and BBSHD if you want a heavy duty 1200W beast are incrediably reliable and relatively easy to convert over similar to the TSDZ2. They are well documented and have many forum threads advocating their plus points for commuting.

I think we are pretty universal here in saying the TSDZ2 may just not be the engine for him and if he says thats he's from an engineering background, then I would suspect that he may well be the shouty tell all on the internet type when it goes wrong from his own lack of engineering understandings. As soon as you take a standard engine and modify it then you are in no mans land other than your own.

 

[Retrorockit]

I think we are pretty universal here in saying the TSDZ2 may just not be the engine for him and if he says thats he's from an engineering background, then I would suspect that he from his own lack of engineering understandings. As soon as you take a standard engine and modify it then you are in no mans land other than your own.

I don't feel that way at all. The TSDZ2 is a known problem child. There is a 340 page thread telling all about it.
YOU seem to " be the shouty tell all on the internet type when it goes wrong ".
If a version of the firmware is causing overheating I think he should be thanked for sharing that with others so they don't damage their motors.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I think we are pretty universal here in saying the TSDZ2 may just not be the engine for him and if he says thats he's from an engineering background, then I would suspect that he from his own lack of engineering understandings. As soon as you take a standard engine and modify it then you are in no mans land other than your own.

I don't feel that way at all. The TSDZ2 is a known problem child. There is a 340 page thread telling all about it.
YOU seem to " be the shouty tell all on the internet type when it goes wrong ".
If a version of the firmware is causing overheating I think he should be thanked for sharing that with others so they don't damage their motors.

Really, the only thing I have had problems with is water ingress. We use these motors far harder than most and even on the latest version we now have 4 motors on the latest 20.1C all doing some pretty tough off road, without problem.

The water ingress is to be expected considering we are using a design way out of its comfort zone and in parameters that never ever was designed for. Have we resolved that issue, maybe.

I’m starting to think that there are some on here which are seeing a problem written about on the thread and putting the engine into a zone where it fits the the musings of the internet. For example none of the recent whiners have yet to eliminate the human element and run the motor over a fixed climb over a fixed time just using the throttle over say 5 passes for each version measuring WH’s used.

I come from an engineering background and if I want to diss something on the internet then I will rigorously test in a number of ways to confirm absolutely what my deductions are. I don’t simply say I’ve done 1 run with a dozen parameters all different and then say it must be shit.

 

[andrea_104kg]

I don't know I agree. It is useless to test the engine with the accelerator if the test was done the same afternoon on the same climb by the same person, with the same ratio at the same speed and with the same power on the wattmeter.
It is not a difference of 5 degrees but a good 27 °
Personally I did the test after 2 weeks of using the engine and since I see the temperature in real time I noticed too high values. and I certainly do not give up using the tsdz2 since I am satisfied with the previous software, I am not obliged to use the latest version

 

[ferum]

I fixed the reduction, made it 1:1. The problem didn't go away. The motor helps on three pedal rotations, then no help. If you just wait 15 seconds without rebooting, the situation repeats itself. Help from the engine is restored by 3 turns. Maybe it's something with the settings? The battery is charged and healthy.

Discovered that the Technical tab does not show cadence. Value - 0

Checked the rev sensor, it's not damaged. But there is no information from it. Has this ever happened since the firmware?

 

[dameri]

Is this a new or old controller? It’s 6-wire, although I think I ordered 8-wire. It can be programmed at least according to the ST Visual Programmer. I have tried programs for KT-LCD3 for and 850C. Different versions. Nothing is working. The displays remain blank when I turn on the power. The displays are working because they are turned on when programming.

 

[Elinx]

Is this a new or old controller? ....

This is the old controller which can be prgrammed with OSF

Here you see how components are placed on the new 2020 controller:


This is the "old" one:

 

[dameri]

Is this a new or old controller? ....

This is the old controller which can be prgrammed with OSF

Here you see how componenst are placed on the new 2020 controller:
NewTsdz2controller.jpg

Thank you. I'll keep on trying.

 

[casainho]

Is this a new or old controller? ....

This is the old controller which can be prgrammed with OSF

Here you see how componenst are placed on the new 2020 controller:
NewTsdz2controller.jpg

This is the "old" one:
oldcontroller.jpg

Soon I hope to start documenting the TSDZ2 motor controller V2 and start developing the early firmware for it. Meanwhile where is the repository that I will be using: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_motor_controller_v2

 

[casainho]

I finish a new build of the TSDZ2 EBike wireless controller and it is really easy to build - here the step by step in a few pictures:

 

[mdumdei]

I'm baffled... either this motor sucks, or something is wrong with mine. Rode the bike to work this morning again... this stupid piece of shit start overheating 3.7mi into my ride, at assist level 6, while maintaining 150-200w of motor power. My ride to work is 6.1 miles total with an elevation gain of 164' total, which mostly comes in the last 3 miles. Ambient temps on my ride were

I definitely regret buying this thing. The information in this thread made it seem at least capable of 200-250w nominal over an hour, and in my experience, it's not capable of anything close to that.

3.7 miles in, and it's starting to shut down due to heat...

.4 miles later, it's toast. been running at 100w of power since then.

I shut it off for 1 mile and just pedaled on my own.

From here, even letting it pull 50-100w of output was causing it to overheat.

So yeah... Where does that leave me? This thing sucks. I'm a tinkerer and I'm for sure willing to mess around with something to make it better or get the most out of it. However, I've got around $1,200 into this conversion and I don't even see a shred of capacity in this thing for any real cycling usage. I'm without a doubt, better off as a cyclist, and even a commuter without this thing on my bike.

I guess what bums me out the most is that I over spent in this case to buy the thing pre-setup for eco-ebike. Those guys did a great job, and provided some of the best pre-purchase customer service I've experienced in a long while (bike industry or otherwise). However, this motor is purely a letdown and if I could do it all over again, I'd just forgo buying a tsdz2 entirely.

So where to now? I'm going to tear this thing down, look for anything obvious and install the temp mods... Once that doesn't work (I'm pretty certain it's not going to work, I can't even get this thing to do 4 miles without overheating)... I guess I'll take it off the bike and sell it. I wish it were at least good enough to sell the bike whole on craigslist and profit off of the Santacruz name and lack of availability... but I can't in good conscious do that with how utterly shit this thing is.

My first thought would be something is either wrong with the motor or the temperature sensor. I had a "false" over temp warning one time (one time meaning one time until I fixed it). I felt the motor which was not warm at all, so just shut the sensor off after I was sure it was a false alarm. It's been a long time ago, so don't remember all the details, but I wound up changing the sensor out. At the same time I was changing it out, I noticed when I re-assembled the case I had pinched some of the wires. Could have been the temp sensor, could have been the pinched wires (in my case), because it has worked fine since. Sounds like I'm running the same software you are and run on assist level 7 mostly and pull about the same number of motor watts you say you are. Even in Texas summer heat I have no temperature issues. Now, if I run the watts way up and pull a bunch of power it will overheat, but doesn't sound like that is what you are doing. Could be something else, but doesn't sound right to me. Feel the motor - see if it really hot or just the temperature sensor thinks it is.

 

[skestans]

I remember a while back seeing a post about the crank arms that come with the tsdz2 and how they’re not symmetrical: one side sticks out more than the other from the frame.

I was fine with it until recently where I started going for much longer rides (50–70km). After these longer rides, I’m getting pain in my left knee. I suspect this is due to the uneven crank arms.

What was the solution? I think I remember they could be swapped with another set of cranks that were symmetrical but I don’t remember which cranks it was. Can anyone share the reference for these replacement cranks?

 

[Elinx]

..
What was the solution? I think I remember they could be swapped with another set of cranks that were symmetrical.

The tsdz2 default cranks are bowed and has a relative wide Q factor.
Mostly the advice is to replace only the right (drive side) crank for a more straight Bafang type for symmetrical Q factor.
See here too

 

[Retrorockit]

I remember a while back seeing a post about the crank arms that come with the tsdz2 and how they’re not symmetrical: one side sticks out more than the other from the frame.

I was fine with it until recently where I started going for much longer rides (50–70km). After these longer rides, I’m getting pain in my left knee. I suspect this is due to the uneven crank arms.

What was the solution? I think I remember they could be swapped with another set of cranks that were symmetrical but I don’t remember which cranks it was. Can anyone share the reference for these replacement cranks?

Back in Septenber 2020 there were a series of posts on this subject in this thread.I think Bafang crank arms were one of the solutions.
The Shimano FC-E5000 cranks have similar offset to the bfangs and come in 165mm if that would help your issue. They're very affordable. This can help with pedal strikes in turns due to the extra width of mid drives. I prefer 175mm cranks but am running 170mm due to the width isssue.

 

[dameri]

I’m so confused. I programmed the new controller and STVisual Programer flash software and says memories succesfully veryfied. Then I turn the power on and nothing happens. I've tried different cables, changed the TX and RX cable places, not success. I also have a brand new TSDZ2 motor with exactly same problem. Although I didn't try to see if it worked with the stock software, I immediately installed OSF, but it doesn't work. I've tried to put stock firmware back to motor according the instructions of the Eco cycles but motor do not start. Displays stays blank.

I have not had any problems with previous motors. OSF has been installed right away and everything has worked fine. Now nothing works. Would there be any solution to the problem