New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[Jil]

Hi,

I plan to install this motor on the Riverside 520 of my girlfriend, with a 34T chainring, using this adapter : https://www.pswpower.com/products/tongsheng-tsdz2-electric-bicycle-mid-motor-chain-wheel-ring-adapater-for-replace-34t-36t-38t-chain-131
Has anyone tried it ? How does it work ? And what about the chain line ? Is it better than with a BBS ?

More generally (I haven't read the 379 pages of this thread ), is the relability of the TSDZ2 ok, for use at low power levels (300-350 watts max) ?

For use with 52V batteries, I guess that I have to choose the 48V version, or is the 36V useable also ?

Thanks

 

[pxl666]

Hi,

I plan to install this motor on the Riverside 520 of my girlfriend, with a 34T chainring, using this adapter : https://www.pswpower.com/products/tongsheng-tsdz2-electric-bicycle-mid-motor-chain-wheel-ring-adapater-for-replace-34t-36t-38t-chain-131
Has anyone tried it ? How does it work ? And what about the chain line ? Is it better than with a BBS ?

More generally (I haven't read the 379 pages of this thread ), is the relability of the TSDZ2 ok, for use at low power levels (300-350 watts max) ?

For use with 52V batteries, I guess that I have to choose the 48V version, or is the 36V useable also ?

Thanks

you can get 110bcd 36t chainring and it will be ok without adapter . at 350w motor will get hot much slower so it's good thing . get 48v version

 

[Speady]

More generally (I haven't read the 379 pages of this thread ), is the relability of the TSDZ2 ok, for use at low power levels (300-350 watts max) ?

For use with 52V batteries, I guess that I have to choose the 48V version, or is the 36V useable also ?

Thanks

Running a 52V battery is possible as long as you dial in your charger from 58.8V to 56.3V, as that's the max voltage before the overvoltage protection from controller kicks in. That means you can charge your 14s battery to about 4V cell voltage and lose usable capacity accordingly. Low voltage protection is at 42.8V, so a 36V battery on a 48V controller is a big no no. Let alone the granny style candence.
I fully understand you don't want to read the whole thread, ever since the little portuguese elf hijacked it for his daily hacker talk. But the first 50 pages do offer some valuable content.
The TSDZ2 comes with plenty flaws of all kinds and calling it reliable would be an outrageous lie.

 

[Speady]

Hi,

I plan to install this motor on the Riverside 520 of my girlfriend, with a 34T chainring, using this adapter : https://www.pswpower.com/products/tongsheng-tsdz2-electric-bicycle-mid-motor-chain-wheel-ring-adapater-for-replace-34t-36t-38t-chain-131

Keep in mind that the Bolt Circle Diameter of the new TSDZ2B differs from the old version. So there's no such thing like an one fits all adapter.
If you get to bolt that 34T on, you'll soon find out your chainline goes from bad to worse, so what's the point?

 

[Speady]

bcd spiders new/ old

 

[Jil]

Thank you !
So to sum up :
- reliability isn’t very good
- chain line will be bad if I go below 36T.

Should I choose a BBS instead ?
At least I know this one…

 

[endlessolli]

... ever since the little portuguese elf hijacked it for his daily hacker talk. But the first 50 pages do offer some valuable content.
The TSDZ2 comes with plenty flaws of all kinds and calling it reliable would be an outrageous lie.

I find this statement of yours highly offensive and inappropriate:
By "little portuguese elf" you can only refer to the person who developed a new firmware for this motor and gave it to the community - free as opensource.
This firmware improves the motor in many ways (including reliability and efficiency).


Also,wrt reliability: I and many others run this motor for thousands of km w/o issues.

 

[Jil]

By "little portuguese elf" you can only refer to the person who developed a new firmware for this motor and gave it to the community - free as opensource.
This firmware improves the motor in many ways (including reliability and efficiency).

Also,wrt reliability: I and many others run this motor for thousands of km w/o issues.

Interesting feedback also endlessolli, thank you.
The use of this motor will really be for minimal assistance, generally around 100-150 watts (we live in a very flat area), sometimes up to 300-350 watts when we go biking in the mountains
Visually, I must admit that I strongly prefer the low-profile of the TSDZ2 compared to the BBS.
What is this open-source software ? This one : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=98281&start=517 ?

 

[Jil]

you can get 110bcd 36t chainring and it will be ok without adapter

This one, for example ? https://www.ebay.fr/itm/314105867886?hash=item49222b2e6e:g:GnMAAOSwIJVihGd3&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsO%2Bvy7bFBbAJMS7zCoXkuSRwMYx%2FHQC3qhi1o6MnzUDLUEKMy%2BW9fq6L2ef0mob%2Fe0ihLhGcJLj7ZjFtLYOyFzysLWsTaPwKQlXAf3UWrzpR5DtzmCLRDz4MUbWT5Y6%2BEOwxg0NyQaak3cCHYQsHaRsbLiTCDX3x6x7rYlLyatxmeiRyitrfbZ9ba%2B63hIIKP7v5VlEN6Xejxc7%2B%2BLBUTynZoPhUeS0pRPt9XMqxj0Y5%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR66NnMLcYA
Will it be possible to use the entire cassette with it ?

 

[Jil]

bcd spiders new/ old

Noted. Do I still have to use a 110BCD chainring on the new one ?

 

[pedalfettal]

I find that comment offensive too.

What is wrong with being little?

What is the issue with Portuguese?

Why label a person as a fantasy creature? Why not a dwarf? Or an orc? Or even an unicorn?

Also what is the issue with hackers?

The person I think you are referring to has provided a very valuable service to those who wish to utilise the strengths of the Child's Voice TSDZ2.

I suggest that you follow grand ma/pa advice - if you have nothing/constructive nice to say then shut tha cake-hole.

 

[Speady]

Do I still have to use a 110BCD chainring on the new one ?


Yes, still 110

 

[Elinx]

....
So to sum up :
- reliability isn’t very good
- chain line will be bad if I go below 36T.

Should I choose a BBS instead ?
...

If you coming in this way and want reliability out of the box. Yes, better is to choose a BBS with PAS sensing.

If you want torque sensing for that price and you are you willing to invest some time.
Add two bearings, some heatpads and Open Source Firmware to improve the reliability of the tdsz2.
I ride a Riverside 500 with Tsdz2 for 3 years now on flat windy Dutch roads. Never had problems with the motor.
Eventually, if you got problems. The Tsdz2 is relative easy to service, spareparts are relative cheap and easy to get.

FYI: OSF developing started by a Portugues gentleman and improved as it is now by two Italian fan's
With OSF and 36V Tsdz2 you can choose a 36V or 48V full charged batterie, with 48V engine you can choose 48V to 54V full charged.
Also you are free to choose the different support levels and support modes.

imho the chainline is never perfect with a BB motor like BBSxx and Tsdz2. There are some options to line up the front gear.
I don't know your reasons to change the front gear, before you tried the stock gear.
imho you better can try first if this is really needed for your use.
If you have the motor and want to change the front gear, you will have a better overview and can better judge what is needed.

If you are planning to go for tsdz2, don't buy it at Enerprof, becasue this version can't be flashed with OSF.

 

[scianiac]

Depending on the bike and what you are willing to do you can improve or totally fix the chain line by modifying the BB shell and careful spacing. I took about 5mm off the bottom bracket shell and use a 30T chain ring carefully spaced to be as close to the plastic cover as possible. Chain line is pretty much dead on.

 

[Jil]

Thanks to all for your useful answers

I don't know your reasons to change the front gear, before you tried the stock gear.
imho you better can try first if this is really needed for your use.

The reason is that my girlfriend will be using also this bike in mountainous areas (including light offroad), and the idea is to have a bike still able to clim steep hills slowly and without too much power.
With 29" wheels and 11-46 cassette, 42T chainring is too much for this. Currently she has 30T chainring, which is perfect without motor. I guess that 34 or 36T will do the job with a motor.

 

[pxl666]

you can get 110bcd 36t chainring and it will be ok without adapter

This one, for example ? https://www.ebay.fr/itm/314105867886?hash=item49222b2e6e:g:GnMAAOSwIJVihGd3&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsO%2Bvy7bFBbAJMS7zCoXkuSRwMYx%2FHQC3qhi1o6MnzUDLUEKMy%2BW9fq6L2ef0mob%2Fe0ihLhGcJLj7ZjFtLYOyFzysLWsTaPwKQlXAf3UWrzpR5DtzmCLRDz4MUbWT5Y6%2BEOwxg0NyQaak3cCHYQsHaRsbLiTCDX3x6x7rYlLyatxmeiRyitrfbZ9ba%2B63hIIKP7v5VlEN6Xejxc7%2B%2BLBUTynZoPhUeS0pRPt9XMqxj0Y5%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR66NnMLcYA
Will it be possible to use the entire cassette with it ?

they look fine . I can use all chainrings on the cassette

 

[Jil]

FYI: OSF developing started by a Portugues gentleman and improved as it is now by two Italian fan's
With OSF and 36V Tsdz2 you can choose a 36V or 48V full charged batterie, with 48V engine you can choose 48V to 54V full charged.
Also you are free to choose the different support levels and support modes.

Is this software useable on Mac interface, or only Windows ?

 

[Elinx]

....
Is this software useable on Mac interface, or only Windows ?

Inside the OSF wiki there is a special page for OS-X and Linux too, but I personally use Windows so have no experience with it.
I know some OS-X/Linux users did use a virtual image of Windows for flashing.

If you go for the new Tsdz2B, look carefully what you need if you change the spider.
The fitting of the fontgear is changed, because of the bigger new improved doublecluth maingear

See the German forum

 

[Jil]

Ok thanks !

 

[badtrader]

Hello friends. I like this project but I am quite confused by the organization of the project. It is highly fragmented.

I have gotten all the parts and started to build the casainho display. Is this the correct route? I am confused which motor firmware goes along with this display. I am using the v0.20.0 of the display firmware. The last motor firmware release in the main repo is 2020, very old.

The most up to date firmware seems to be from the emmebrusa project. But this project doesn't mention EasyDIY display at all but rather VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18. I also have the VLCD5 display which came with the motor.

Should I be building the EasyDIY display or just using the emmebrusa firmware with the VLCD5? I was under the impression that VLCD5 were no longer supported because of the main repo wiki endorsing the easyDIY display.

Sorry I am just very confused

 

[Elinx]

.... gotten all the parts and started to build the casainho display. Is this the correct route? I am confused which motor firmware goes along with this display. I am using the v0.20.0 of the display firmware. The last motor firmware release in the main repo is 2020, very old.

The most up to date firmware seems to be from the emmebrusa project. But this project doesn't mention EasyDIY display at all but rather VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18. I also have the VLCD5 display which came with the motor.

Should I be building the EasyDIY display or just using the emmebrusa firmware with the VLCD5? I was under the impression that VLCD5 were no longer supported because of the main repo wiki endorsing the easyDIY display.
....

There are several builds from different developers. That is why it is confusing.
The first OSF builds are done and coördinated by Casainho, for KTLCD3, SW102 and 850C/860C display. He never supported stock display's like vlcd5.
He also edit the main wiki in line of his personal developement, meaning that old, by him abandoned, developments aren't there anymore. (If you know how to handle Github history, it is possible to find old wiki info)
Later he developed a wireless version for Garmin,and again later he made a diy display based on that.
Because Casainho has moved to Bafang M500, he has abandoned almost all Tsdz2 developement. That is why you find his last release for 2020.

Based on the original development, but still up to date are:
mspider65 build. This is with stock display, but settings wireless done with smartphone. For that you must build a wireless module.
mbrusa builds, for stock display, KT lcd3 display and 860C display based on mspider65 build
With stock display basic settings are done on PC before flashing, other settings are done with display
With Lcd3 and 860C all setting are done with display which must be flashed too.

imho it isn't possible to use diy display with mbrusa build, without knowledge how to do that.

mbrusa OSF for stock display is the most simple one, because you only need to flash the controller
For other displays you need to flash the display too, and there is no guarantee that something has changed with third party display's, which is the case with KTlcd3, SW102 and 850C with the consequence they aren't flashable anymore.
That was also the reason why Casainho started with the diy display.
For diy display or mspider65 module you have to build something yourself with hardware.

 

[badtrader]

.... gotten all the parts and started to build the casainho display. Is this the correct route? I am confused which motor firmware goes along with this display. I am using the v0.20.0 of the display firmware. The last motor firmware release in the main repo is 2020, very old.

The most up to date firmware seems to be from the emmebrusa project. But this project doesn't mention EasyDIY display at all but rather VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18. I also have the VLCD5 display which came with the motor.

Should I be building the EasyDIY display or just using the emmebrusa firmware with the VLCD5? I was under the impression that VLCD5 were no longer supported because of the main repo wiki endorsing the easyDIY display.
....

There are several builds from different developers. That is why it is confusing.
The first OSF builds are done and coördinated by Casainho, for KTLCD3, SW102 and 850C/860C display. He never supported stock display's like vlcd5.
He also edit the main wiki in line of his personal developement, meaning that old, by him abandoned, developments aren't there anymore. (If you know how to handle Github history, it is possible to find old wiki info)
Later he developed a wireless version for Garmin,and again later he made a diy display based on that.
Because Casainho has moved to Bafang M500, he has abandoned almost all Tsdz2 developement. That is why you find his last release for 2020.

Based on the original development, but still up to date are:
mspider65 build. This is with stock display, but settings wireless done with smartphone. For that you must build a wireless module.
mbrusa builds, for stock display, KT lcd3 display and 860C display based on mspider65 build
With stock display basic settings are done on PC before flashing, other settings are done with display
With Lcd3 and 860C all setting are done with display which must be flashed too.

imho it isn't possible to use diy display with mbrusa build, without knowledge how to do that.

mbrusa OSF for stock display is the most simple one, because you only need to flash the controller
For other displays you need to flash the display too, and there is no guarantee that something has changed with third party display's, which is the case with KTlcd3, SW102 and 850C with the consequence they aren't flashable anymore.
That was also the reason why Casainho started with the diy display.
For diy display or mspider65 module you have to build something yourself with hardware.

Well I have already built half the easyDIY display (btw it is not easy haha) . Casainho should update readme wiki to state that project is abandoned. It had a lot of cool improvements on there like heat sensor and such. Could I still continue with the old Casainho firmware or many improvements have been made on the more up to date project? If many improvements have been made ofc I will use the new projects.

 

[Elinx]

..... Casainho should update readme wiki to state that project is abandoned. .... If many improvements have been made ofc I will use the new projects.

I have tried to explain in short the history, fragmentation of OSF and the confusion, mentioned by you and it looks you only read the word "abandoned". But that isn't the same as outdated. Imho you can use Casainho's OSF without fear.

It is an Open Source project, so everything is public. Casainho isn't the only one that can work on OSF development.
His personal OSF build is finished (for now) and he is developing other projects for it, like the latest Easy OS display.
So the complete project isn't abandoned by him, but he can use his time just once.

You are free to develop OSF further if you want, as done by mspider65 and mbrusa too.
I understand the diy display is based on the SW102, so maybe it is possible to use that knowledge to mount this display at the mbrusa 860C/SW102 build too, by changing the bootloader firmware.

 

[theflyingjaguar]

Hey there !

I have bought a 500w 48v TSDZ2 kit, but shortly after installing it, I had an issue with the controller and had to get it replaced by the seller.

I installed the new one, but then I noticed that the battery indicator on my VLCD5 display is wrong : I have to use half my batterie before the display shows that I lost 1 bar.

I don't know if the issue is related to the new controller or not. Is there a way to callibrate it ? How can I know if the seller didn't accidentally send a 36v controller ?

Thanks a lot

 

[pxl666]

Hey there !

I have bought a 500w 48v TSDZ2 kit, but shortly after installing it, I had an issue with the controller and had to get it replaced by the seller.

I installed the new one, but then I noticed that the battery indicator on my VLCD5 display is wrong : I have to use half my batterie before the display shows that I lost 1 bar.

I don't know if the issue is related to the new controller or not. Is there a way to callibrate it ? How can I know if the seller didn't accidentally send a 36v controller ?

Thanks a lot

did u flash the new one ?