Qulbix Q76R Frame Kits & Complete Bikes PRE-ORDER

[BoomerChomsi]

Thank you! How does it fits?
Any special parts are required?

Most bicycle hubs are now axle fitted and 9mm QR is kinda old...

 

[Offroader]

Thank you! How does it fits?
Any special parts are required?

Most bicycle hubs are now axle fitted and 9mm QR is kinda old...

That is a good question, I never considered doing something like this as I always intended to use a hub motor. I have seen others use a regular rear wheel but I don't know what they used exactly.

 

[BoomerChomsi]

Thanks, no problem I will wait for Qulbix answer(s).

Yaah I would like to have a of-road e-bike.
So mid-drive would be a better choice

 

[Offroader]

Thanks, no problem I will wait for Qulbix answer(s).

Yaah I would like to have a of-road e-bike.
So mid-drive would be a better choice

To be honest, I would like a mid-drive bike also and in a few years that will probably be what most of us will use. However, the problem is that the mid-drive technology isn't developed enough for a reliable bike. There are almost no frames made to support a mid-drive and the other issue is there is less room for battery placement.

I wouldn't bother with a mid-drive just yet, i would wait a few years for that when more people are using them and frames are made for them. There is a reason why practically nobody uses a mid-drive.

To be honest, a hubmotor bike isn't all that bad off-road and are extremely reliable and handle well. If you are building it for off-road I would go with the MXUS motor because it is light in weight compared to the QS 205 or Cromotor.

 

[BoomerChomsi]

Yes I have Mxus 4T motor wit 20S battery.
I don't like the load (motor weight) at rear wheel.

That is why I prefer chain drive for of-road.
I would like to ride some of-road hills, gaps etc..

I like hub motor for on-road riding...

I have another Giant DH frame, but too much hassle again for carrying battery etc.
So ready to build frame is better choice now, less time, less spending money

 

[madin88]

the biggest benefit of a hubdrive is we can use REGEN and safe brakepads^^
with a middrive this is hardly doable because you want to have a freewheel somewhere.

 

[Mammalian04]

Thanks, no problem I will wait for Qulbix answer(s).

Yaah I would like to have a of-road e-bike.
So mid-drive would be a better choice

I have 2 Cromotor bikes and I am building a MXUS 3000 bike and a QS 205 bike so I do appreciate the high power but heavy hub motors. Even so, I still like the idea of Mid-Drive so I am building 4 mid-drive bikes.

2 of the Mid-Drives I am building are Qulbix.
One is a Qulbix 140 that I am converting from hubmotor. The Cromotor will go to a different bike and a Lightning Rods Big Block Mid-Drive will be installed.
The other Qulbix will be a Q76 that Lightning Rods will install. He will have the frame for a while to Prototype a few options for people (small block, big block, MAYBE a Cyclone if there is enough interest, ect). Check out this thread where people are talking about the Q76 mid-drive right now.

The Qulbix makes a pretty good platform for the mid-drive kits because of the boxy frame to bolt into. There is some trickiness to high power mid-drives, as Offroader has noted. The big one is getting the power to the rear wheel in with different gears. With single speed, you can run stronger chains and gears and set it up for perfect alignment to get a pretty reliable and easily serviceable drivetrain. The multiple gears, it gets tougher. You end up running weaker multi-speed chains and rear 6 speed cassettes. The current solution I plan on taking for the Qulbix mid-drives are quite expensive custom 6 speed hubs. I hope a cheaper solution comes about but that's about it for now. Some people just feather the throttle and do ok with the Big Block motors but I don't fancy breaking stuff and pushing the bike home when way out in the woods.

 

[Offroader]

Mammalian04, Thanks for the link never really looked in the non-hub motor drive section, I should start keeping updated on this mid drive setup.

The thing with hub motors for off-road is that if your bike is setup properly it handles very well off-road. When I say setup properly, you want a 10.5x3.5 coil shock for long travel and also a 17x3.00" fat rear tire run at 11-14 PSI, You really want is a shinko 241 in 3", 3" is important because the tire has soft rubber and flexes easily as the 2.75" are harder rubber.

These things will make the bike handle extremely well off-road because I run the bike very hard without issues and a good smooth ride. The only issue is if I really hit something large the front will roll over it without issue but when that rear hits it will kick up the rear of the bike. This is only when I hit something large and fast, like a curb which is rare. I assume this is mostly because of the heavy hub?

I have yet to try a mid-drive and what it feels like to remove all that weight in the rear. Maybe it will be a huge improvement that will surprise me.

 

[Mammalian04]

Mammalian04, Thanks for the link never really looked in the non-hub motor drive section, I should start keeping updated on this mid drive setup.

The thing with hub motors for off-road is that if your bike is setup properly it handles very well off-road. When I say setup properly, you want a 10.5x3.5 coil shock for long travel and also a 17x3.00" fat rear tire run at 11-14 PSI, You really want is a shinko 241 in 3", 3" is important because the tire has soft rubber and flexes easily as the 2.75" are harder rubber.

These things will make the bike handle extremely well off-road because I run the bike very hard without issues and a good smooth ride. The only issue is if I really hit something large the front will roll over it without issue but when that rear hits it will kick up the rear of the bike. This is only when I hit something large and fast, like a curb which is rare. I assume this is mostly because of the heavy hub?

I have yet to try a mid-drive and what it feels like to remove all that weight in the rear. Maybe it will be a huge improvement that will surprise me.

No sweat Offroader. My build progress has pretty much stopped until I get my shoulder healed up but I'll post up photos of the mid-drive bikes when I get healed up and start to assemble.

Yep, 17-3.00 tire is where its at with the hub motor. For the mid-drive though, I would like to use the larger 19" since I can get torque through gearing and the larger wheel will go over stuff easier. However, I haven't found a 19" Shinko 241 in 3.00 wide. I see 2.75 and 3.50 but no 3.00 which is a bummer. Maybe it doesn't exist. I like the wider tire but 3.5 may be a little TOO wide and heavy.

 

[Offroader]

Mammalian04, the perfect tire for you is a 18 x 3.00 shinko 241. This is about the same size as a 2.75 x 19.

http://www.shinkotireusa.com/tire/sr-241-series

 

[Mammalian04]

Good call. Will give one a shot in an 18" Moto wheel.

 

[Offroader]

the biggest benefit of a hubdrive is we can use REGEN and safe brakepads^^
with a middrive this is hardly doable because you want to have a freewheel somewhere.

I agree without regen the rear brakes wear away super fast.

I always thought this was partly because of the heavy hub motor also in the wheel that takes a lot of braking to slow it down. Maybe with a mid-drive the brakes would wear away slower so it isn't as much of an issue?

 

[BoomerChomsi]

To be honest I have never used regenerative braking feature, I really don't care about brake pads. I care more about chain drive durability

If we use single speed we can use use (maybe) a moped chain?

I really like hub, but for smooth terrain...

 

[ziltoid81]

If you use single speed, you delete one big advantage of a middrive.......

We need some shiftable ebike chain system, stronger chains and sprokets with 2 to 5 gears.
Even only 2 gears would be ok.
Or a middrive with some sort of built in transmission.

 

[BoomerChomsi]

Yes I am aware of this issue, yes two/three gears will be still fine (I hope).
I don't like to have 9 or more gears at rear, very weak link for maintenance

 

[Mammalian04]

Mike Backus (LightningRods) has been working with Mike Vidovich of TImberline Cycles. Check out the posts about his beefed up six speed.

Also check out CheekyBloke's 3 speed he made from 3 different sized single speed cogs and widened the deraileur. Derailleur hanger was a challenge and shifting is tough but he came out a lot cheaper than the the TImberline option and can run a heavier chain.

 

[Offroader]

This lighting rod mid drive kit does look interesting. Since it is able to bolt to the Q76R bike and doesn't take up battery compartment space it may be worth using if you want to really off-road the bike.

I'll have to see how it all works out and how reliable it is. Seems like you can always convert your bike over to this kit and Lighting Rod even says it works really well with the Qulbix frames.

It would be really nice to finally have a proper rear suspension. The only thing that I don't like is I can't use the Max-E controller.

 

[Mammalian04]

This lighting rod mid drive kit does look interesting. Since it is able to bolt to the Q76R bike and doesn't take up battery compartment space it may be worth using if you want to really off-road the bike.

I'll have to see how it all works out and how reliable it is. Seems like you can always convert your bike over to this kit and Lighting Rod even says it works really well with the Qulbix frames.

It would be really nice to finally have a proper rear suspension. The only thing that I don't like is I can't use the Max-E controller.

Yeah. Mike and I are working through that one. I will miss the Adaptto display and BMS system. I think I would like to try Grin's FOC Phase Runner (although this version is a bit light on power and not a simple setup but it is super small) and a sine wave Kelly. Not interested in square wave at all. Clunky, noisy. I picture 1980s dos green screen when I think of square wave.... Ok, maybe that's a stretch but I want to stick with some smoother quieter tech.

 

[macribs]

If you use single speed, you delete one big advantage of a middrive.......

We need some shiftable ebike chain system, stronger chains and sprokets with 2 to 5 gears.
Even only 2 gears would be ok.
Or a middrive with some sort of built in transmission.

What about a variable internal gear hub used as a jack shaft? Like one of those, Rohlhoff, nuvinci, alfine, nexus etc. Or just put that hub in the rear and lace up the rim.

I know it has been debated if those IGH's are strong enough to handle mid motors, but some has used such hubs with success. One in particular I can remember is the Dogati bike.

Here you can see the bike, and hear! the bike as he shifts up during acceleration up a hill. The Dogati got power from a Astro 3220, and IIRC those puppets can deliver peak power for 12-14 kw for very short bursts. It seems Dogati's IGH hub worked.

[youtube]DDkfWFVioNw[/youtube]

 

[BoomerChomsi]

I have emailed Qulbix about rear wheel mounting, but no reply.
Can anyone ask for me?

Thank you 8)

 

[Offroader]

I have emailed Qulbix about rear wheel mounting, but no reply.
Can anyone ask for me?

Thank you 8)

Rear wheel mounting with the mid drive lighting rod kit? You will have to see what people are using for the rear hub. It all matters about the hub basically and Qulbix will not know. Once you know the hub you can build and use any wheel and tire you want.

The hub will depend on how the chain links with the Lighting Rod kit. I don't know if there is even a consensus about which is the best hub to use for the kit. You will have to decide on what dropout width you will need. I am not sure if you need a certain drop out width for the hub.

Best talk with Lighting Rod and ask in the lighting rod thread about what hub and rear dropouts width you need. Then tell Qulbix if you need a certain width for the dropouts.

Maybe Mammalian04 knows more about what hub you need?

 

[Mammalian04]

Have been trying to talk get hold of Mike Vidovich at Timberline cycles but haven't reached them by phone yet. I was in Denver this week and wanted to stop by but unfortunately Timberline had some important personal matters to attend to and this wasn't a good week for them. I will try again next week. You guys will be sure to know as soon as I get a hub sorted with them. They seem to have the best cassette gear based solution right now so I am hopeful.

 

[Offroader]

Have been trying to talk get hold of Mike Vidovich at Timberline cycles but haven't reached them by phone yet. I was in Denver this week and wanted to stop by but unfortunately Timberline had some important personal matters to attend to and this wasn't a good week for them. I will try again next week. You guys will be sure to know as soon as I get a hub sorted with them. They seem to have the best cassette gear based solution right now so I am hopeful.

Isn't the way to go to use a Rohloff transmission for the hub? Lightning Rod mentioned it but I don't think he tried it because of the price. I'm not sure if it can handle the power but if it can It is probably the best bet so you can change gears.

If no one has tried it maybe you will be the one to test it. I assume it is best to get the fatbike version at 170mm, should fit your 165mm dropouts.

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/fatbike_rohloff_speedhub_xl_mtb/index.html

 

[Mammalian04]

Isn't the way to go to use a Rohloff transmission for the hub? Lightning Rod mentioned it but I don't think he tried it because of the price. I'm not sure if it can handle the power but if it can It is probably the best bet so you can change gears.

If no one has tried it maybe you will be the one to test it. I assume it is best to get the fatbike version at 170mm, should fit your 165mm dropouts.

http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/fatbike_rohloff_speedhub_xl_mtb/index.html

It could be. Eric Hicks (Luna) has run the Rohloff at high power and it held up so I think it can take it. The bigger issues are cost, serviceability, and availability. If I was looking for a one-off solution I would try one but I am looking for a more practical solution that will work for more people. Also, I will be installing a few of these on personal bikes. I'd like consistency in this particular "wear" component so the parts can be interchangeable amongst the bikes. I also don't want to spend $1000 every time I need a mid-drive rear hub!

While the Timberline solution is even MORE one-off than a Rohloff, I am hoping the production can go up and costs can come down after a little development and user testing.

EDIT: Eh... Maybe I WILL try a Rohloff XL 500/14 if I can't get a Timberline in a timely manner. I'm slightly concerned about the 10mm axle but it may be a non-issue.

 

[Offroader]

Do you guys have any updates on your Q76R preorder. I know mine is going to be built and shipped after you guys who preordered because I have custom modifications done to my frame.

Just wondering if you guys heard anything yet on your frames?