Reid's Stealth Cruiser: Float your eBOAT? Ideas, anyone? p22

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To make the bike fully proof against submarine running, a variety of
completely untried, time-proven techniques will be employed.


:roll:

First, for the noobs (they include me), let us 'break the chain' because it's in the way of steps to follow.
Also, that giant front chainwheel will require a longer chain.

How to use a "chain breaker", and just how much to push out the friction-fit rivet, and no farther, or you will cuss
trying to get the pin back in, or have to buy a universal chain link-joiner from the LBC.

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P1080752.jpg

Must NOT push the pin clear-out or there will be hell to pay to get it back in. It is friction-fit in the outer links.
P1080753.jpg


---
Next: let us Zerk the bottom bracket.
 
Why install a Zerk here? The topic is covered in earlier postings.
To make the Zerk grease-able by a simple glue syringe, we remove its spring loaded check valve.
If desired, a rubber cover-tip can be put over naked Zerks. Nude Zerks are a public embarrasment. :oops:

P1080746.jpg


For this USA type Zerk, drill #3 drill size, tap 1/4"/28TPI. Install with some red loctite, or spit, as you like it:
P1080749.jpg


Now the bottom bracket, so generally a final resting place for rust, water, debris, can be pumped full of grease.
A few of its vent holes (the vertical tube hole and the forward hole, have been pre-sealed with epoxy putty.
TWO holes remain open. Those two holes are the chainstay tube holes. Why?
 
No water can ever intrude into this most vital of structural areas.
I know, the bike, even untreated, would outlive me by a number of years.
I don't care. I want it to be right: I want it to live at the bottom of Biscayne Bay for years, without rusting out:

P1080760.jpg

White lithium grease, very soft, made very much softer yet by pre-heating in the oven.
PUMPING the chainstays, horizontal, until:
P1080761.jpg


Now, the vent holes at the dropout-ends are to be cleaned of grease and plugged with a bit of epoxy putty.

The same grease-filling is also done to the upper chainstays (or whatever those up-tubes are termed).

________________

What about the seat tube: seat of all rust-evils?
I bought an LED penlight tonight, so I might have a look-see at this never-washed nor wetted bike.
What I can see at the bottom of the seat post tube (which was once open-vented to the BB, would make a sailor swear!
There was, when first opened at the NEW bottom bracket, droplets of RUSTY Chinese water: no doubt left-over from sanding and painting
the frame at the factory.

I shall try to get a picture of that bit of rust-ola, using the penlight and the digicam.
Then later, I'll RUSTPROOF the tube bottom and sides with BLACK BEAR brand rust preventive.
Or stuff it full of molten grease.

This bike is gonna rock, not rot.
Remember, this will be a YELLOW and black submersible e-bike.
I will paint the frame after a tear-down, probably in February, when our humidity is lowest,
and so, least chance of paint blushing (I use Krylon Fusion here).

Rust? Rot? Weiler? I will rot, but hey, I'm expendable. :lol:
 
Reid Welch said:
. . .And as I cruise at 20mph or 25mph (est), I'll pedal assist, put in my 100 watts or so,
and gain leg exercise and upper body exercise, as I lean back and PULL into the pedals.

IF I want, in practice, a higher or lower fixed gearing: the rear sprocket is standard fit: comes in a range of tooth-numbers.. .
Reid you can only go so small on the rear. Sometimes you'll run into frame clearance issues with sprockets under ~13T.
You'll also be very fortunate to find one with fewer than 14T.They're usually available in sizes from 14T- 23T.

So let's see, 52 T/14T on 26" wheels and 170mm cranks would yield:
17.2 mph @ 60 rpm (that's casual)
23 mph @ 80 rpm (that's around my favourite cadence though I'm not always in a 96.6" gear)
25 mph @ 90 rpm (it's easy to maintain that against little resistance)
28.7 mph @ 100 rpm (that's about where the lycra boys cruise)
34.5 mph @120 rpm (they're still gonna drop you if your motor doesn't go faster) *

Mine does but what is more fun is to catch and pace them after they've passed you. I was careful to not get into their draft so they didn't think I was wheel sucking. Nor did I even close within earshot on the hills where they'd have been toast. I just hung back and harried them.

*53 T/11 T on 700C wheels and 170mm cranks is 37.7 mph @ 100 rpm.
I can spin 140 rpm on a well fitted bike with secure attachment to the pedals, just not very long.
 
Dear Zoot! The GREASE-filling idea came from you. Thanks!

As for the present gear ratio (yet un-ridden, not installed the crank again yet),

I have the new 52T front chainwheel.
Cranks are about 165mm center to center of the pedal. Oversized 26" tire.
Rear cog, easily changed if that becomes the best path--won't know until miles get on the ebike,
is 19T
P1080793.jpg


I will study your gear ratio choices and figure out my cadence.
Being a beginner, basically, with experience only with the old Currie cruiser,
with which I'd done this same trick: the big front chainwheel gave me great cadence at 20 plus-per.
My knees did not suffer nor did I windmill toooo much.

We all remember, too, that a bigger front chainwheel and / or a smaller rear sprocket, increases coaster brake skidding power;
more "leverage".

-----

The seat tube, which I regret, that I cannot get a good image of what must be factory-wash-water rust:
I can't get a good photo of its bottom, but I can see.....
P1080794.jpg

P1080801.jpg
This is brand new gear.
There are no holes into the vertical tube, other than the seat post-top, and the water bottle mount-holes, and a now-epoxy-plugged seal at the bottom of the seat tube. That grey, epoxy putty plug, is visible in the image.

One of these pictures shows, perhaps, that beginning of rust: I can see red-orange.
There was a bit of water in there from the factory. It is dry now, and will be rust-treated with snake oil.
And the perfect-fitting Thud-Buster will go in with a coating of very thick, waterproof "Green Grease" (USA synthetic).
No water can ever get in to this seat post again.

I will study single gearing options now, but mostly, later, after I get the bike up and running.
Time to plug the grease-input holes, do a bit of filing, refit the rear wheel, install the crank,
make a longer chain up from stock on hand, and go for a manual ride, and then tinker with the still-dead
eZee system (which failure was/is my fault, somehow).

Thanks, Zoot; 8) thanks for the grease idea and for gearing/cadence advice given to a lightweight beginner.
 
Zoot Katz said:
Reid Welch said:
. . (quote snipped to the essence to be savoured:
Mine does but what is more fun is to catch and pace them after they've passed you. I was careful to not get into their draft so they didn't think I was wheel sucking. Nor did I even close within earshot on the hills where they'd have been toast. I just hung back and harried them.

*53 T/11 T on 700C wheels and 170mm cranks is 37.7 mph @ 100 rpm.
I can spin 140 rpm on a well fitted bike with secure attachment to the pedals, just not very long.
I have met many Canadians; and Brits, too, who,
by some circumspect skill in their viewing of Life, live happily and long;
and yet, they are competitive and happy at the same time, by nature, well being.

---
an entirely off-topic post-response, but one worth remembering, for once and forever.
 
The fifty year can of Black Bear Par-Al-Ketone (still made today), can of ketone, seen in the earlier postings.
P1080806.jpg


As noted earlier, the bottom hole of the seat tube (that path of all water to the bottom bracket,
is epoxy-putty plugged. I poured in a few ounces of this brown, oily liquid (it has very little solvent or oil odor),
and sloshed it around by turning the frame every which way: so my hand (as a "cap" is oily).

P1080807.jpg


P1080809.jpg


P1080812.jpg


Will let it air in the draft of an electric fan overnight, then dump and drain any liquid excess,
and let it air-dry in the sunshine (this is Florida), before wiping off any excess from the outside with
a mineral spirits rag. Then grease the seatpost well and install the Thudbuster.

In the meanwhile, the liquid Par-Al-Ketone setting at the bottom of the seat tube, does not leak through the epoxy grease/water plug
(not so far, anyway).

I hope this will serve to fully protect the seat tube bottom, and, of course, further prevent any possibility of any sort of water ingress,
condensation, etc, from ever touching the steel.
This is all overkill. I like overkill.

When, later tonight (perhaps) I install the crank and its oversized chainwheel, and re-fit the rear wheel...and chain it....
and it will look like a bike again. The bottom bracket may then be well-pumped with white grease;
the former vent holes at the chain stay-ends (where the dropouts are), are plugged with sandable, solid (not the metal filled) epoxy putty.

Much later, I will tear down this bike to its frame, prep for painting, and make it YELLOW, and at that time, treat the front fork and head bracket,
both for water-ingress prevention, and for Zerk lubing at will. I will!

Next step: ride the damned bike.
Then get the electric portion to operate. It will work.
________________

Addendum: a half hour later after the Black Bear slosh, it is noted that this is a "drying oil";
that is, that it contains some small component of volatile solvent, plus, it probably "dries",
in a manner similar to linseed oil does "dry" over time. Yet, I suspect this proprietary rust preventive,
on the market for so many decades, remains "plastic", by means of heavy petroleum distillates, and, perhaps,
chemical action unknown to myself.

It is little remembered or known today, that at one time, linseed oil was considered by many painters as the rust-preventive par-excellence:
that no other oil or coating so effectively killed rust action on steel. A bi-annual coating of boiled linseed oil was considered perfect rust protection
for wrought iron and even, steel.

Steels, alloys of iron, vary greatly in their rust resistance.
Real life example: Henry Flagler's "Overseas Railway", completed in 1910, although converted to be a highway for autos
during the Depression era, bears iron rails, recycled, in some places, to support the "modern steel" framework that would become the two lane auto roadway.

I inspected this great engineering job a few years ago. The Overseas Highway was condemned as unsafe (rusted Depression-era steel) three decades ago.
Yet, Flagler's iron rails, visible here and there, are all perfectly sound, with no more than an thin, inert, oxide crust---such as you see on manhole covers (cast iron);
and all this in tropical, salt water conditions: a "highway", first for a train, then for autos, connecting one hundred miles, nearly, of Florida keys.

The Eiffel Tower, the Brooklyn Bridge: all made of irons and steels resistant to corrosion.
The STEEL cables of the Bridge: specially treated with oils and tar concoctions: today as un-rusted as when new.
The bridge, the tower, will never fail due to rust. So, why should any mere bicycle suffer oxidation from within?
 
Where did you get the 52T gear at?
 
D-Man said:
Where did you get the 52T gear at?
Local Bike Shop ordered it through the importer, JB importers (you all know that firm, am sure): they have something like 11 USA location/warehouses.

It is a generic, stamped steel wheel, probably available from other sources as well.
I note that it has universal bolt patterns for optional attachment to modern crank systems.
It cost $13 plus shipping and installed by drift-knocking loose the central cone (mechanic did not have a proper spanner wrench).

More trivia: JB Importers is Miami-based. Thirty years ago I worked at a warehouse business (player pianos), just across the street from JB.

Who was "JB"? In the middle to late 60s, he was the star of the locally produced, afternoon kiddy-cartoon show, providing a human touch between cartoons.
Shows like these were produced in every local market. His was the "Jumpin' Jack" show. He jumped around like a good natured clown.
So do I.

I can still sing the theme song: do do do dum dum, dum dum-dum-dum-dum-dum...

Anyway, it's just a cheap but bulletproof chainwheel. Surely can be gotten mailorder from an online retailer, rather than from a LBC.
I forget where I got my last one: the one I put on the old Currie Mongoose. God Bless,

Red Skeleton
(reid after six months buried at sea in Biscayne Bay, lead-belted to his rustless Stealth Cruiser)
 
OK. No pictures today: too late a start to have taken out of doors pictures; ran out of light and steam at the same time.

Got the new chainwheel fitted. Bike pedals great--it is NOT too high a gear ratio for flat land, no head wind.
Its OD just clears the controller (water bottle mount location), just fine.
The latter clearance, by luck of the Irish, serves as a pants leg protector (a free bonus suprise here);
I do not think I can ever snag a pants cuff in the chain.

The wiring of the controller that was seen, loose, looking like a bird's nest, is now stuffed neatly away.
A short length of split, black, corrugated plastic wire sheath-tubing "disappears" the wiring.

Am not one to boast, being, as you all know, a most modest and reticent person :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ,
but this will be the neatest-looking, least e-bike looking ebike on the road.

Manana, I'll dummy-fit the battery carrier and battery again and pose the bike against the wall for a silver portrait.
Compare the bike portrait with those NOS and early aspect portraits of a month ago? Details, details, yet to work out:
The kickstand placement and its clamp-shaping-conformation (cosmetic) are nearly the last to do.

Then we get the mysterious electric trouble (it does not go) fixed,
and THEN, we strip the bike to bits and wet sand, prep and paint the frame and front fork YELLOW.

And then we call it a job and then we throw it into Biscayne Bay or other large body of water;
if in Scotland: Loch Ness would do
. Nessie would be pleased. :wink:

Having fun,
Herr Reid
 
Long lay off from the dead bike project.
Progress report!


=a new, optional-large PING charger arrived last week. 5A instead of the standard supplied 2.5A.
It works grand. It runs uber-cool, too.

=trouble shooting the Dead Bike: rather than get into the process as advocated by Justin and one other here,
I ordered instead a spare, new, known-good, eZee controller from Justin's firm.
I shall do a simple wire-in (minimal, at the hub motor: this will tell me for sure if the trouble was
a)in my original hard wiring job, or
b)in the controller,
c)in the hub motor itself.

Reason: I want a spare controller anyway. Substitution for a trial will answer all questions.

Pictures later, pretty soon. I want a running (but not submarine-capable) bike ready to take to an EV meet in Jupiter, Fl, next month.
I'm gonna meet Tyler Durden! And we'll run the bike and see electric vehicles galore, and have a good time and maybe a break a bottle of champagne
over the stupid bike. Submarine work comes later, much later, after the bike is fully working: we will break it again, electrically, short

ly.

:mrgreen:
 
Good too hear you are 'back on track' well at least closer anywayz...fingers crossed for you the motor is a-ok Reid ;)

Reid Welch said:
I'm gonna meet Tyler Durden! A and maybe a break a bottle of champagne
over the stupid bike.

:shock:

Avoid temptation to break said bottle over TD's head...then again..
trust your judgement ;)
 
^ ^

Master Tyler brings me luck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLFqfmvTYps
Watch this in HD. The running sound: a happy sound.

Jupiter, by Jove, here we come!

----

Meanwhile, I recommend all to watch CAPTAIN BLOOD (1935)
Accept no substitute for Victory, or for a mere case of the gout.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-jg2Hpwv9o&feature=related


:D
 
Sorry, cant watch the video's. I'm on dial-up.
 
D-Man said:
Sorry, cant watch the video's. I'm on dial-up.
Darn, I am sorry for that. It's like having to deal with a hand cranked telephone today.
Millions of people are still stuck with dial up. The internet of today and tomorrow is moving pictures, and in relatively high definition. That said, this video is a great big nothing: a spinning wheel in a sloppy shop. You're missing nothing.

However, if i get the bike to the Jupiter, Florida EV meet next month: VIDEO of all the fun. I'll put the bike into that video, and Tyler too, if he allows.

----
Ypedal:: I am with you on your suspicions: I ruined the first controller by cutting out that red, diagnostic LED, or by that belt sanding of the FET heat sink. I won't do either of those operations to this controller.

-----

Motor running on Ping battery, no load, spinning fast: will probably run for many hours before the Ping BMS cuts out the power at a shade under 37V.
I want now to just run the bike, inverted, to be really sure the controller and motor are going to keep on running. This means for days.
The new five amp Ping (modified SLA) charger can easily keep the battery fully charged at this super-light load of about 50W.

---

Then begin, carefully, to swap in the thumb throttle (see that it works, and hard wire the motor after pulling the thick, stiff, grey controller cable through the tube.

That controller's grey-sheathed cable is so stiff due to the scuff-proof plastic, that it makes pulling and then "folding" the excess wire needed for removal of the eZee for tire changing, impossible.
Therefore, the thick grey sheath will be stripped from the controller cable, almost totally, and the slender eZee wires wrapped well in silicone tape and then wire-lubed for the pulling-througfh job. No nicks or tears of those wires' insulation can be risked.

It's gonna look workmanlike. The controller box is going to be ventilated, not sealed.
The controller board will be epoxy encapsulated, much like I've done with the Ping BMS.
This controller, a mere 20A controller, is going to run very, very cool.
It will be impossible to self-short if it gets wet. It will get very wet at times:
like every time the bike gets a hosing down.

Thanks all. More later.
R.
 
OK, beginning again. The motor has been running at full, unloaded speed for a day and one half. I even injected it with three syringes of light oil (again), as done early-on before I ruined the original controller.

The motor is thus proved safe from oil damage to its hall sensor adhesives, at least for a month, if not forever. It runs so quiet with some oil bathing the planet gears...

Now for the new controller: one step at a time. It's survived its first hours of infancy.
I will re-use the old controller's modified case (the silver case), and have gutted the new controller already, just for its known-good board. The rest of it, the case, gets binned.
The diagnostic LED: superglued tight into its peep hole. A hammer and vise grips and such to shatter and break away the die cast from that little LED: it and its leads, intact, go into the original controller's container.

The thick, really stiff, grey main cable to the motor: all that gets stripped off.
Then I pull that set of wires after a light taping with silicone tape, =carefully= through the bike tube, so as not to skin off any insulation.

Then it's just a matter of a zillion solder splices of the various wires: motor, throttle, cycle analyst, and a tucking-inside of the excess lengths (much of which lengths I can cut off from the main cable, in particular because it is so very long.

The bike will run soon. That will be my next report/showing. Will have some pictures.
Waterproofing the controller board will be done much later, after I KNOW the bike runs right well. Epoxy. I love epoxy.

And so, to bed, with dreams of acetone in my little head. Whatever that stock eZee controller board is painted with, it is not a true epoxy coating, as proved by the fact that it yields to acetone. However, it is a bonding coat, and so, a light brushing-over with a paint brush and naphtha, then with acetone, for bond-insurance, followed by a low temperature bake for many hours to ensure the absence of any water at all (practically speaking), and then a pour-over job of super-duty table top epoxy (really applied in drips from a chopstick), repeated twice, one side of the controller board at a time, and it should all run just the same as before, yet be waterproof in any weather or water depth to 100 meters (I joke about the latter).

BTW: ALL epoxies yield to heat carefully monitored. None withstand more than about 200F before softening to a cheesy weakness, capable of brushing or picking off.
Even the much vaunted JB Weld, a fine, "high temperature", filled epoxy, turns to cheddar at 250F or far below, lies of the makers to the contrary. Try it and see.
 
:lol:

I love a good joke. Zoot, that is great humour.
My former post here of off topic ha ha was not so good as yours,
so it's erased and replaced now by this post: informative, relatively, for me:
I'm learning as I go along.

Tonight, right now, am doing an epoxy pour to protect the new controller board.

Pictures to follow. Captions later. All the process will be explained later.
This is controller #2; I ruined the first controller by cutting an LED or by grinding the heat sink (we don't know).

THIS controller does work, and will work, and NOW is the time to epoxy-seal it: two, full, thick coats on each side, no crannies missed.

First, the simple bottom. As soon as set up drip-free, flip....
P1080917.jpg

First pour of the top. As soon as it sets up, still gummy, a second pour, then let it harden,
then do the bottom of the board again. This is only the first pour. I have yet to do the second pours.
P1080919.jpg

It is the same technique that I used recently for the Ping BMS. I no longer have to shrink wrap that BMS: it's short-proof
and water proof.

Other images, showing more or less how the cables run.
All this was done for controller #1, so installing this new controller board will be relatively, a piece of cake:
just a lot of wires to solder and shrink wrap with sealant in the shrink wrap.
P1080925.jpg

P1080928.jpg

P1080929.jpg

P1080930.jpg

P1080931.jpg


The next photo essay will make all of this very clear. It is not complicated; only fiddly for a first-timer.

Goal repeated: a totally submersible e-bike, just to beat the band.
 
The Stig said:
How is the motor waterproofed/going to be waterproofed?
This is easy. As supplied, the wire entry point at the hollow axle is daubed with some sort of putty. It is not really water tight, and can be picked off the joint.
You all may recall that one of the first things I did with the eZee motor, was to inject several ounces of SAE 20 Mobil One motor oil.
The motor ran fine in test mode and was very quiet due to the oil cushioning of the planet gears. However, oil leaked out freely from that ineffective seal at the axle. This was fixed by removing all that putty crap, and repeatedly degreasing the wire exit point using naphtha and then acetone, and then injecting with a glue syringe, "Perfect Glue #1", which is a runny sort of silicone sealant. It is not acetic acid cure, but is of a different sort than the usual silicone rubber, being a methyl-something cure, activated by exposure to water vapor in the air, same as conventional acetic acid-cure silicone rubbers. It is only slightly hygroscopic, as is regular silicone rubber. It is totally oil proof and it is proof against water submersion too.

But what about the "sealed" bearings? Water, especially if I submerge the bike, would eventually work past any "sealed" bearing.
There is no such thing as a "sealed from the elements" bearing of the usual variety: their seals are designed ONLY to keep grease or oil IN. They cannot forever keep water out: splash water: no problem. But eventually.... think how boat trailer bearings are lubed and fitted with positive-pressure constant grease-feeding systems, sometimes.

This eZee motor, so far, runs fine with three syringe-fills of oil inside of it. This oil, and I do not yet know what will be the optimum (minimum amount) is installed by removing one of the disk brake rotor attachment screws and squirting in the oil.

I do not know yet how much oil is "safe" for the motor, long term: too much would churn against the windings and waste a lot of power.

But here's the beauty: I can, if I've been in the pool or driving through waist-deep water (as if that's likely to happen often, NOT), I can DRAIN the oil from the motor. Then FILL the motor totally with fresh oil, turn it slowly, very slowly, for a few minutes, and this will emulsify and mix out all of any water. THEN drain the motor and look at the resulting drainage: specks? Would be wear products. Clear, clean oil? Then my mind is eased, knowing that no water of note is in the motor, ever.

In fact, I plan to do oil changes to this motor at intervals, just to see: WILL the motor's hall sensor adhesive ever fail due to the presence of oil? Silicone rubber glues are generally oil resistant: they will swell and they will weaken, a bit, but then that's it.

At any rate, my bike is a test sled. I do not advocate oil-filling with even one ounce of oil, an eZee motor or any other motor.

ALL oils are wonderful dielectrics and none of them adversely affect wire enamel insulation at all.

I do not expect problems next month. If the bike's eZee motor runs well for a year with oil always present:
I'll consider this to be a Good Practice.

Amazing, though, how oil, synthetic oil in particular, will creep down the entire lengths of the hall and power wires;
it won't "leak out" anyplace, but it will end up blocked at the hard wired solder joints of the motor to controller, at the fork.
Water behaves in a somewhat similar fashion: hard to keep water from following any past of ingress, such as through an unsealed quick connector of the miniature, multiple pole type. In which case: grease the darned connectors well with an inert, silicone grease you can get in a tiny tube from the auto parts store, for instance. That will keep water vapor from getting into your motor, long term, I hope.

Mine? Full of oil, and motor oils are rust preventing (they work this way in auto engines, heavily contaminated with the water which is the great byproduct of internal combustion engines.

Also, oil is a better lubricant for ball and roller bearings than is grease. That's just a fact. It is only a matter of seal-lip design capable of retaining the oil. In the case of the eZee motor, these lips are sealing in the oil very well! not a hint of oil loss through the axle seals so far on this new motor.

I wish I could be more brief, but to be brief I'd have to leave out a lot of rubbish too! :D
 
marty said:
For some waterproofing tips go way back to my topic.
Crystalyte Controller / Does it Rain in China?
Dee Jay said:
X
Very cool. Remember when R2D2 fell into the Degoba swamp? R2 was water proof! Coolest scene in the Star Wars series, I thought. 8)
X
J
R2-D2 was a Robot.
An excellent thread full of good, practical advice.
I'm with fecter: it is virtually impossible to truly seal an enclosure that bears wire entry points,
has seams, screws, etc.

So my controller is going to be an "open box", practically, but with an epoxy sealed board.
I think it will work. You'll see a garden hose, full pressure, flooding this controller.
If anything fails---the next failure will be documented in this thread.

Perhaps some pictures (a video will be simpler) to show the general idea here.
This eZee brand controller is small, simple and malleable by amateur inventors.
 
It's in HD and just shows the ready-to-reinstall epoxy sealed controller board
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQk21G1QfuU
Notes for those who have no broadband or otherwise cannot view videos:

=The standard eZee controller (I'll get a picture of some other one, I forgot to photograph mine) is a small, die-case box.
It has FOUR separate cables exiting the bottom of the box. A huge amount of ugly, black caulking sealant "seals" these cables. It looks like hell, for one thing. The other thing: the bundles of wires are shrink wrapped, but not all sealed at their connectors (the shrink wrap). Also, water, wetting the quick connectors is capable to travel up a wire crimp, under the wire insulation, and condense eventually inside the sealed diecast box. Only thing is: the box is not even sealed: there are four, tapped and threaded mounting holes on the back plate of the box for factory mounting to an eZee brand bike.
IF you were to hold this box loose and let it be flooded with water it would sink like the Titanic: water would simply fill the box through the those backplate holes if you have not SEALED them with dabs of silicone rubber, or by using them to mount the controller.

=Note the small sized black zip ties. ALL the "hydras" of motor leads, throttle, motor, halls, have been stripped of their shrink wrap and their quick connectors cut off.
This lets me with the zip ties, tie all the wires into ONE bundle, center exit, instead of having four or more "hydras" sticking out the bottom.

=If an eZee controller or other controller is mounted inside a protective case such as a pannier bag: no problem!
Even the open holes in the back are a plus then: they will let the box ventilate, and so, prevent mold and other biological life from forming: the box can "breathe".

=My board, now coated, will fit back into its box with its two stock screws (the heat sink screws) and from there, attach to the back plate, which is married to the water bottle mounting screw points (see pictures earlier page, and pictures to come).

=Latest thought on the single cable bundle that I must pull: the motor cable: am not going to pre-wrap it in anything.
instead: zip-tie it at about ten inch intervals. Why? Then the needed-for-tire-changing excess wire length will "fold" back upon itself as needed.
Where the cable exits the bike tube, to head for the fork and motor, it will be shrink wrapped or silicone rubber taped.
The oval hole in the frame will be lined with an anti-chafe material of felt or of sponge rubber.

And so it goes. Sealing the board instead of the box. I wrote a crude primer about epoxy types and application, here:


fwiw,
R
 
Reid Welch said:
General epoxy information from a hobbyist. I am not an epoxy engineer.

These are general truths so far as I know. I've used epoxies all my adult life.

PS ADDENDUM: you cannot re-pour epoxy onto itself after the "amine blush" has occurred;
you'd get no bond then. In case of pouring over a previously epoxied surface, one must sand, roughen, tooth, key,
the surfaces! The West System people are so strong and respected in their line of marine epoxies, I bet that by now they have a comprehensive website containing all this information and more ( last used their products in 1999, and they were so excellent with customer help/information. I bet it's all online today.


=+The slower-setting the epoxy, the stronger and more heat resistant it is.
Marine grade (West System) epoxies are excellent. But so are any quality epoxies that are designed to set slowly. I generally use the hardware store syringe type stuff (slow set!!!!), but for my controller job I wanted the "best": a slow set designed for laminating table tops that must resist hot plates and platters.
I had a small kit on hand from many years ago. Beat buying a $50 or thereabouts, West System brand kit, and seems to give fine, equal results.

=Any liquid epoxy can be admixed with an almost endless variety of fillers in order to thicken the material against being runny. Anything from metal powder, plastic dust, talc (easy to sand). Again, the West System brand and other pro brands offer a variety of powders to admix into their liquid epoxies.
Glass microbeads are the most inert filler of all, and easy to sand and shape.

=Epoxy putties are filled epoxies with fillers of various sorts.

=Pure, liquid, slow setting epoxy is the least hygroscopic of all kinds.

=Slow setting epoxies are the most heat resistant.

=All epoxies completely soften to cheese-like strength and consistency in heat, and I mean in low heat: sub- 250F turns all pure epoxies so soft as to be removable by wire brush or dental pick. There is no extant "600F" epoxy, JB Weld claims are lies. Overheated epoxy, so long as it is not burned by the heat, returns to its original state of hardness upon cooling down again.

=Some epoxies are rock hard and would be considered brittle if the substrate is flexed.
=Some epoxies are less than rock hard, and will endure some flexing.

=Bonding: Absolute cleanliness. Solvent wash more than once. The slightest trace of oil, invisible,
will compromise the bond.
=More about bonding: some materials have a natural affinity to bond fully (if they are clean) to epoxy.
=Many materials, mostly plastics of polyethylene type, cannot chemically bond to epoxy; they are "non polar" to epoxy.
In these cases a semi-reliable mechanical bond can be gotten by coarse sanding of the surfaces.

=Epoxies of the slow set, hard kind, are the least hygroscopic of all coatings...far superior to water ingress, long term, than polyester resins, which otherwise seem so similar.
It is for this reason that premium watercraft are gel coated with epoxy and not with the much cheaper polyester resins of yore: Polyester resin boat gel coats eventually blister and fail if the boat is constantly kept in water.

RTVs: silicone rubbers are excellent aids, but are, for sensitive work, sometimes not suitable: they are all hygroscopic. That is, if the item is going to be submerged in water long term, the silicone "rubber" stuff will take on a considerable percentage of water, though it will not blister or "leak" massive water through to the substrate.

I favor the marine epoxies, slow setting (I used to use West System when I worked with old cars and their wooden frames. Nothing is better for wood reinforcement and filleting and even for "saving" rotted wood, than a very slow epoxy: it will wick well into well-dried wood before it sets up.

For my submarine ebike controller, see the gradual progress at my "show your ebikes thread".
I think it will work. ONLY the controller board itself is "potted"; and I won't be relying solely on
the table-top coating resin chosen for this job.

See my thread for updates, reasonings, and best guesses. I'm not an expert, but I do have some
slight experience with epoxies for some decades, and hope to have a submarine-capable ebike before long. The controller enclosure: completely open to the cooling, drying breezes. It will be a cool little eZee controller, thanks to waterproofing the part that counts: the board and its wire-take off points.

hope this helped,

Reid
 
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