Reid's Stealth Cruiser: Float your eBOAT? Ideas, anyone? p22

[Reid Welch]

Hi Zoot!

Good points, all noted and well-taken here. Although you are not speaking specifically of this pack installation,
I'd like to note for others who wander into this page:

=The pack is not epoxy potted (nor did you imply that it were so-treated).
It is only double-wrapped now with an added layer of super-quality duct tape (that Gorilla brand stuff).
Prep for that step: the pack was scuff-rubbed with steel wool and then super-cleaned with wipings with isopropyl alcohol,
to ensure best bonding of the Gorilla brand tape. The tape applied, was then rubbed, rubbed, rubbed with a pressing cloth
between a warm, small footprint sealing iron, to fully melt and bed the thick adhesive of the new tape, to the OEM cheap quality duct tape. This, for water sealing, as too, the corners and wire exit points were also sealed with Perfect Glue (silicone)#1.

=Now, the cementing of the pack into the basket should be more or less permanent, yet, reversible if the pack
should ever need to come out. To remove the pack: I'd invert the bike for several days and see if the RTV begins to lose its grip to the scuff-rubbed bottom of the taped pack. If not, then I'd flood the area with mineral spirits or naptha, which will weaken the RTV and allow the pack to be removed (with that gravity assist of fifteen pounds of upside down PING battery.

The BMS is the only portion fully epoxy encapsulated. It is a non-servicable part, should it ever fail, yet can be swapped out easily enough if it were to fail.
The plug connector to the BMS can be disconnected in situ, which will allow manual checking of cell balances at any time in the future: that is, I can tell if ever a cell goes bad.

This type of battery is not prone to cell puffing, but if a cell were to puff at all, visual examination will reveal that fact,
and the battery pack then removed and sent in (or serviced by myself) to replace any bad cell.

------
Center of gravity: a basket mount battery pack is not ideal for nimble handling;
but then again, neither is a rider sitting tall above the saddle in non-aero stance.
Advantage of this mount: the bike still looks like a ho-hum, uninteresting single speed bike = less curiosity raised in onlookers and thieves, etc.

It will pedal normally, freewheel as any normal bike, and with its coaster brake freewheel: dead silent whilst manual pedaling/coasting.

The weight at present is sixty five pounds. The range of this 36V, 20Ah, geared front hub motor bike (no front brake)
has yet to be determined.

The fore-aft weight distribution is heavily biased to the rear, especially as it is now a sort of "crank forward" bike.
This will limit traction on wet roads or uphill climbs in mud. The only uphill of note around here is a century old rockpit
a couple of blocks away: grassy, a park now, it will be fun to bomb down its steep sides (the half city block park is about fifteen feet deep, with sloping sides all round of about 1 in 4 grade: I expect front wheel slippage when climbing out if the grass is wet.

But most all my riding will be on normally dry, paved, level roads. Headwinds, on occasion, will be the only real load against the bike;
that, and wind resistance to be expected when going more than about 15 mph.
But this is a 20 to 25mph bike.

I may want to exchange the present rear wheel cog for a smaller tooth count for easier spinning when I cover distances at 20mph or greater;
the start-up torque of the eZee will take care of the difficulty of starting off from a standing stop, as at a stop sign, etc.

I plan to use the assist for starting and for long distance, relatively high speed cruising.
I plan to leave the car at home and use the bike for local errands, with plenty of mileage range available
in case I really want to go somewhere...and yet, be able to pedal manually back home without difficulty....so long as there's no headwind.

Living in a flat area really simplifies this bike design. I just don't need multiple gearing: the assist function sort of takes there place (because we have no hills).
IF I lived with various slight to moderate grades, as most of you have, this cruiser concept would not be so nifty.
But as it is, I think I have an ideal formula for my needs: a bike that still looks all-bike without odd additions which only
put off the general public against wanting an ebike.

A year from now all this will be obsolete, as ebikes for light duty already are on the market, looking as bike-like as can be;
but will they go as far and as robustly as this all-steel bike?
I plan to hop curbs with ease (so little weight at the front of the bike) and take air as much as possible
and never break a spoke or bend a rim: Big, soft, Big Hanks, 2.5" are my primary shock absorbers.
The chainwheel has already been exchanged from a 48T (I forget) to a 52T, the largest readily available.

The bike trailer is ready too for those odd jobs, like fetching five gallon pails of paint from the hardware store five miles away.

Musing instead of soldering....let's fire up that butane iron and finish this little job today, roughed in.
Repainting the frame: later, after all trials and mods are done, and the bike can be stripped down to its bare frame.



Cheers, thank you for your thoughts, pro, con or neutral,

Reid

 

[Reid Welch]

IT'S ALIVE



To do: cosmetics for the wiring, fix a fender rattle, hook up a broken speedo sensor wire...
but for now, it WORKS and it runs about 20mph (I guess) without assist, and is very quiet.
It is a simple ebike, and early indications are that the coaster brake alone is going to be sufficient.

A video of the very first running is in upload. A crude video made with my mate's lousy, tiny digicam.
I had a friend ride the bike up and down his quiet street whilst I stood by. The motor is so silent that the bike cannot be heard.

It's all good. Only details remain to be ironed out.
Someday I hope to take the bike down to a bare frame and paint it safety yellow;
meantime, a yellow Nike biking shirt serves for daytime visibility.

Video in an hour, though its not much of a video and will not impress experienced ebikers here.
I am happy.
-----

Now I can catch up on other things: send off the promised Unite motors, and Kim: I will be sending your Drain Brain;
I even found the manual for that unit.

The eZee is torquey enough, and is almost equal in pulling power to the old Currie/Unite at its 36V, but ever so much quieter.
Wide open throttle gives about 20mph, and is quiet, and draws about 400W on average--depending on the headwind or lack thereof.
3 and 4 percent grades raise the power demand into the 600 to 700 watt territory.
I ride full upright, not aero, high on the steed, in fine comfort leaning back, pulling against the longhorn handlebars.
It is, like the old, modified Currie, very stable and safe to steer with just one hand if I choose to operate a camera with the free hand.

NO brake levers. No clutter (well, not much, anyway :wink: )

For what it was and is meant to be: the eZee-equiped cruiser is just about perfect for my wants.
A smaller rear cog is wanted now so that I can spin-assist the bike to 25mph, gain exercise that way, and leave lycras wondering, "wth!"

A 48V battery, in retrospect, might have been preferable, but at too much added cost, weight and bulk.
A 48V battery would give about 25mph unassisted. I am pleased enough, though, with 20mph... It's a bike, not a moped.

 

[Reid Welch]

Not much of a video, but here it is, first run, fwiw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmyyGHHEsaE
Sort of blurry and all out of focus: I used Ernie's mini digicam. It's not good for video.

Next time I'll use the Canon HV30 and obtain real near-high definition.
But details...further riding, over the roughest stuff, DID break loose the battery from its glued place;
the silicone adhesive let go from the duct tape bottom of the battery. I'll have to strap it in after all.
Gorilla brand duct tape for the short term: ugly, but it secures the Ping safely. I jump curbs.

----
Future updates will detail neatening-out the wiring and perhaps some good video of cruiser runs.
I just came back from a 4AM run to the local CVS...got there faster and with more fun than I'd have gotten from the car.
The bike looks just like a plain old cruiser (good because it raises no eyebrows), but it runs like a sewing machine: smooth
and lots of cush for the tush.

Cheers all----submarine work will come later on.

 

[Reid Welch]

The bike now has 65 miles on its odometer. Justin's eZee kit and Cycle Analyst run flawlessly, and the 36V,20Ah PING pack is working just fine.

Doing around town errands today, running with Miami traffic, in my high visibility Nike yellow shirt, sitting tall in the saddle:
I'm seen but not seen as some guy riding a freakish cycle: it looks just like a regular bike.

It goes 20mph, drawing an average of 400W at that speed. 18Wh per mile average, 14 miles of run today, no pedaling, used less than 7Ah of the battery's capacity; 217Wh expended.

Visited a restaurant and two bike shops miles apart. Bought a bungee cord net-cover for the battery box. Ordered from Coral Way bike shop (where the basic cruiser bike was bought, a spare rear wheel to use for brake and rim parts if ever needed, plus a 14T and 16T rear cog (don't know which one I'll prefer), in order that I can pedal assist at 20mph, and go 25 by adding my own leg power...the no-load speed of the eZee is 28mph, so I can do some high speed pedaling and still have most of the power supplied by the hub motor. Got also, a pair of very bright green flashing-LED valve stem caps:
You can't be too visible at night, especially from the sides. Cool, I am not with such gee-gaws; Alive, though, I plan to remain.

On the way home, a pit stop for a cup of whipped vanilla cold stuff.
It is a sunny warm day here.

Ordered from Justin's firm today,
his 12LED front light, a "see me" and light duty night road flood light.

The lighting needs: most of my pleasure riding is to be done at night.
Most bike lights look too interesting and are too easy for thieves to snatch.
Justin's little unit looks like...what it is: something integrated to this plain-looking bike, not attractive to grab-and-run types;
it will be zip-tied to the handlebar.
So this is what I'll have then for my modest night time lighting needs,
powered simply by wiring it to the Cycle Analyst:
http://ebikes.ca/lights/

_____________

The motor: WOULD YOU BELIEVE....it is running with about six ounces of oil inside.
I've added syringe-fulls of oil, one at a time, noting whether there'd be any drag or churn (which would evidence by increased current draw, indicated by the Analyst).
No increase in current draw with oil in the eZee. The motor runs so very quietly at full speed, and the oil cushioning accounts for some of this quietness.
There will be no wear of the plastic planet gears and the motor will run cooler and quieter for the oil slosh.
The oil, once the wheel is spinning, is all thrown at the periphery of the housing ID, on the ring gear, not at all in the motor rotor itself:
so, no added drag.
___________________

TIRE PRESSURE: Have found that a mere 10PSI front is perfect for the fat, Big Hank slick. There is so little weight
up front, and the tire is so large, this allows maximum balloon cushioning. I can call it a shock absorber superior, nearly,
to telescoping front forks, but here I have a solid, hefty steel fork, indestructable as can be.

__________

Cosmetic finishing touches and lots more riding to break in things and ferret out any potential weaknesses.
It goes, and the coaster brake, for this 20mph bike on our level ground, is just fine enough. I won't need a front brake after all.

It's a done deal. Thanks for following along. In time I'll add some half-way decent videos of the bike in action,
and all the whats-and-why-fors in summation of the project. Nobody looks at my ebike in public; no stares:
that was the goal from the very beginning. Nearly absolutely silent, no clicking of any freewheel pawls,
no tire tread noise; just a rolling steel steed that eats no gasoline nor oats, and does not spook stupid cars..

 

[The Stig]

TIRE PRESSURE: Have found that a mere 10PSI front is perfect for the fat, Big Hank slick. There is so little weight
up front, and the tire is so large, this allows maximum balloon cushioning. I can call it a shock absorber superior, nearly,
to telescoping front forks, but here I have a solid, hefty steel fork, indestructable as can be.

Nice and cushioned yes, but hit a a bump or pot hole at speed and bye bye 10PSI. You'd be left with zero wouldn't you?

When you are you going to make the suba ebike video??

The lights should be great! And they'll keep you alive more than anything else.

 

[Reid Welch]

TIRE PRESSURE: Have found that a mere 10PSI front is perfect for the fat, Big Hank slick. There is so little weight
up front, and the tire is so large, this allows maximum balloon cushioning. I can call it a shock absorber superior, nearly,
to telescoping front forks, but here I have a solid, hefty steel fork, indestructable as can be.

Nice and cushioned yes, but hit a a bump or pot hole at speed and bye bye 10PSI. You'd be left with zero wouldn't you?

When you are you going to make the suba ebike video??

The lights should be great! And they'll keep you alive more than anything else.

Hi Stig,
Surprise. This soft, fat tire cannot pinch flat or bottom out. the eZee rim is very narrow, the tire is very fat,
and I've jumped curbs at speed with nary a problem.

A photo might make this point clear. It is a classic rule known since the earliest days of balloon tires (about 1924):
An oversize, wide tire need only be aired sufficient to carry the load. Here, the static load is quite small.
IF I ran a 1" wide racing tire: 100PSI might then be needed to prevent pinch flats or explosion upon heavy road shocks.
A soft, fat tire is not only the supreme shock absorber (look at its volume of air at low pressure), but, being soft, it is far less likely to pick up glass or nails, etc.

Time will tell, but for now, 10PSI seems just grand: the tire shows only slight flattening-deflection as I ride.
It retains low rolling resistance, as proved by both manual pedaling, and by the Cycle analyst's watt meter;
The bike draws no more power at this 10PSI than it did the other day when I aired that tire to 45PSI:
the only difference: the ride was harsh at that higher pressure.

Fat slick tires are a whole 'nother ball game. At the local bike shops today I marveled against this modern mindset
of super light frames and teeny-weenie tires aired to 120PSI, to support 240 pound blubbermen with heavy wallets and little common sense.
______________________

When you are you going to make the suba ebike video??

When I've finalized all the details,
waterproofed the Cycle Analyst, and put some long miles on the bike,

then I will dunk it in the neighbor's pool, let it soak, see if it runs, and then if it passes that test,
I think I'll make a covert (illegal) circular run around inside the DeSoto Fountain in Coral Gables.

It is from 1924, a landmark in Coral Gables.
The basin is flat bottomed, about two to three feet deep and about 30 feet in diameter;
deep enough to soak the motor and submerge the controller, but not wet the battery proper, unless I faw down,
or the fountain is running, which it usually is, and then...
...in my circular runs, must hope that no cop cars catch me (cop cars will not fit in the fountain, ha ha).

Falling once or twice when I do this is a likely result, as I won't be able to go very fast in water.

 

[Reid Welch]

I've got the answers for two of the three questions above.
It has been in oil for months now: no bad effects have yet cropped up.
This is no guarantee, though that some trouble might come after a year or three. You're on your own.
However, I am optimistic that the oil will cause no harm. And oil instead of grease does indeed add benefits,
as will be explained next:

WHAT: running geared transmissions in light oil is a universal practice...except in these new, geared-type hub motors.
WHY: light oil cushions gear teeth, actually preventing contact of the pressure surfaces, through a phenomenon known as
hydrodynamic lubrication: the parts surf upon each other, oil as the separating agent. This form of lubrication prevents all wear
((think of your auto's automatic transmission, how quiet its helical gears run, and with no wear-out))

IS THERE LONG TERM HARM? Ans: No, not unless the oil were to somehow degrade hall sensor adhesive (unlikely, it seems)

Q: How much oil to be installed? A: Enough to fill the motor about one third full. Then, when running, centrifugal force
throws the oil at the perifery of the gear casing, bathing the soft steel ring gear and the plastic planets. Plus, oil contantly
washes all the bearings and constantly wets the lip seals of the axle. Some slight weepage at the axle "seals" is inevitable.

About heat and expansion: when the motor warms up, its contained air expands, and will push out a minute amount of oil.
Upon cooling down, the motor will slightly inhale some of this weeped oil.
Now, consider the stock (dry, not oiled) run in the rain: it will gradually ingest small amounts of water, eventually rusting internal parts to some small extent.

Oil is dielectric and has no effect on nylon gears nor synthetic rubber seals, which are DESIGNED to run in oil.
Oil, sloshing around the inside of the hub motor, is not of sufficient quantity to drown the rapidly spinning central rotor
of the motor, itself, so no fluid spray/strain/churn on the copper windings.
The oil will all be at the ring gear, surfing the planet gears, dampening noise, and fluid polishing the parts over time (perhaps)
to make, in time (thousands of running miles) a super quiet motor, with each planet gear tooth of the three planets, shoulder exactly the same amount of the load.
Benefit accrued: maximum robustness of the geared motor: it should never "peanut butter" any teeth, until some long-away day, when plastic fatique finally breaks off a tooth, which then spells instant destruction for all the remaining planet gear teeth.

WHAT OIL TO USE?
At present, for just now, I've run 65 miles with the first fill of SAE 20 Mobil One brand synthetic oil.
Why synthetic? It is super-duper oily, and I sort of like that aspect of synthetic lubes. They are very resistant to wash-off
from your hands, or from parts: the parts stay oily.

NEXT OIL TO USE, and WHY? I'm going to switch to synthetic ATF, for it is a much lighter bodied oil yet,
and here, we do not need a thick oil: the very velocity (high) of plastic planets working against a high speed motor's geared shaft (5 to 1 stepdown ratio overall), means that only a light oil is needed: less drag, and still obtaining the full effect of hydrodynamic lubrication.

FOR RIGHT NOW: one more fill of Mobil SAE 20, and a few miles more of running with that stuff,
then I will drain the SAE 20out and refill with Mobil ATF, and note if the oil drag (slight) is further reduced;
the Cycle Anylyst will tell the tale objectively.

The images below were just taken.
You see the drainage of 65 mile-old oil. It is turbid, owing to its emulsification with the former grease of the internal ball or roller bearings of this motor.
In time, with occasional oil changes, the old oil will come out virtually as clean as when it went in.
Note the glass of used oil. There I've place a rare earth magnet to check for any metallic particles of steel, stray from the manufacturing process: I see no metal particles, but will know for sure when I wipe that magnet with a clean paper towel.

This procedure is yet in the experimental stage. IF you do this, it is at your own risk. Time and long running, alone,
will prove the expected benefit of running an eZee motor in light oil.

NOTE the orientation of the two open oil holes: this, so I do not overfill the motor.
The paper towel is absorbing the overflow. About six syringes of oil are in the motor at this time of writing.

More info later...now, for the images taken just a half hour ago:

Filling with fresh oil, to a point below the axle, and allowing the excess to drain before recapping the oil fill holes (the disc brake rotor screws)

The old oil drainage: this was run 65 miles

The next filling will be with this ATF: much lighter in body, should be even better for the motor's free running: less fluid friction owing to its lighter viscosity

Saga to be continued after running this fill of oil for a few miles. Then comes a flush with ATF and a fill with ATF.
PS: generally speaking, USE NO SOLVENTS, even the weak aliphatics like white spirit or mineral spirits, to flush any sort of motor: use only oil to flush these things;
petroleum solvents can degrade rubber-like lubrication seals and swell up or even destroy some silicone rubber type sealants.

----
Living on the edge of reality is fun. My granddad, unlike me, was a genuine inventor. Me? I'm a piker...a turnpiker. :lol:

 

[docnjoj]

Thats great info, Reid, for those of us who love geared motors. I have some Nye Damping grease that I intend to try first to see if it helps, but the oil thing looks good. I think Rabittool used an oil bath in the motor Sanyo bought from them with good results. Thanks again for your expertise and wonderful writing style!
otherDoc

 

[Reid Welch]

Hi otherDoc,

Lubrication theory is fascinating, and became a practical science in the 1880s, when a pair of researchers,
studying the difficulties of locomotive plain bearing lubrication, discovered an amazing, natural fact:

a plain journal in a plain bearing, with just the right oil clearance,
if fed oil by drip or by bath, produces its own oil pumping action,

an action which lifts the journal from the plain bearing, stopping all metallic contact;
riding on a fluid film, obviating all wear. This effect depends on velocity of the rotating parts:
at start-up, there is no lift. At speed, given a proper viscosity of oil (or even water in some kinds of bearings),
perfect separation is achieved.

This is called hydrodynamic lubrication; it can be likened to a surfer on his surf board:
if he has velocity sufficient: he surfs, otherwise, he falls over flat.

Now, if the parts are rapidly running, as are the plastic planetary gears,
a very light oil is most desirable.

If the motor were, instead, to be run at only very low speeds and under heavy load,
a thick oil would be called for, to maintain the surfing effect.

This hydrodynamic action applies not only to shafts running in plain bearings,
but also to ball bearing balls: oil is best for ball bearings run fast in oil containing housings, such as a hub motor.
And even more importantly: spur gear teeth also truly surf on a live oil film, actually preventing their physical contact with the mating teeth.
A cushioning and quieting effect is also gained.

Grease on gears running fast is a very poor second choice, as compared against oil.
It is my aim to optimize the lifespan of this eZee's gears and ball or roller bearings.

Now, off for a ride of a few miles, then drain the SAE20 oil, and change over to thinner bodied, super oily synthetic ATF.
The Cycle Analyist, as stated earlier, will quantify any efficiency gains. But what can be heard is even more important:
the eZee or other geared motor, running with oil-wetted gears, runs quieter than one that was simply factory greased.

Let's all have fun doing and daring to be different than the rest of the pack. :wink:

Cheers,

Oil Can Reid

 

[Reid Welch]

The Practice of Lubrication, 1920, a free for download book, easy to read and to digest
http://tinyurl.com/cckans GET IT NOW
Courtesy of Google Book Search, this is a free-use, out of copyright text, highly recommended.

Theory and actual practice. BTW, I have an attic fan spinning in the pitched roof just above my head.
It's a GE direct drive motor and has plain bearings. It has been running without interruption, other than for power failures,
for fully 25 years. The bearings are oil fed, and oiled once every six years. There is NO wear out to hydrodynamically
lubricated bearings; the only wear is at start-up, and only for a fraction of a second. This fan could well run for centuries,
or for as long as the windings do not short out. Such is the nature of well engineered, simple machinery.

_____________

New and on the way, in upload to Youtube: video #31, showing the cruiser bike, with its eZee motor filled with ATF oil,
and taken on a 13 minute tour of the neighborhood, showing you our local sites. I wish you Northerners could live here:
our weather is ideal for year-round ebiking, and the scenery is generally gorgeous. It is a casually made video with a low resolution digicam, as my HD camera is at present out of order until I get a new cable by which to feed its output into this computer.

But you will see how rugged this bike is, albeit that I had to ride it with just one hand on the bar and the other hand to hold the tiny digicam.

Video demo and neighborhood tour next (just made this afternoon).
I like to keep my build progress and errors of adventure here in this thread for archival purposes, and for future ease of finding this fluff stuff.

:wink:

 

[Reid Welch]

Right hand steering, left hand holding a digicam, and the third, uh, hand holding the seat of my pants :lol:

Look, Ma: no crashes! :lol:
Part A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXHcqnk3hnU
Dangerous driving, but what the hell. The scenery shakes, not meeeeee :wink:

Oh, and never sink too much about your own personal poverty :wink:

Part B http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwMZp2sAiEU
Kids test the tire pressure
:
----
Please press the Youtube "HQ" button for best resolution of these casual videos

________________

My next build project: a putt-putt boat, candle powered, for the bathtub, as seen above. (jk)

 

[Reid Welch]

DSL service yesterday and today is flunky: five times now I've tried to upload #31A, but lose the upload just before it completes (it's a 440mb upload for relatively "HQ" playback, considering the poor quality digicam used).

Notes about that front tire at such low pressure: The Big Hanks are very thinwalled tires, which reduces rolling resistance.
If I had a front brake, as I did with this same tire two years ago when I ran it on the Currie Mongoose, it could not be run at this low a pressure. Why? Because the super-supple sidewalls would wrinkle excessively upon heavy braking force.

Here, in this concept cruiser bike, there is no braking strain on the front tire.
Therefore it can be run a this seemingly absurdly-low pressure, gaining for me a perfectly effective shock absorbing action,
yet retaining the strength and simplicity of a plain steel front fork.

The battery mount: the rack of steel and steel basket are adequate, but how to prevent upthrow of the 15lb Ping on rough, offroad turf, or bombing over a curb? The first idea was to silicone-glue the duct taped battery to the basket.
Too bad: silicone rubber glue does not actually bond to the vinyl (?) coating of duct tape.

Therefore, the next step (and the battery must always be removable for inspection or service, will be to try this:
Blue Tack the bottom perimeter of the Ping pack. Press it home into the mesh basket.
The battery stands a bit taller than the sides of the little mesh basket. Mason's cord, high strength nylon, white color
(the only color the hardware store sells, and I want it to be black color) is at present soaking in Rit fabric dye...nylon takes dye color through and through.

With this Blue Tack on the bottom doing the basic sticking-down of the battery, and then a lacing-over of the top of the pack,
I think a bump-proof mounting will be achieved. When this is done I'll helmet mount the little casio digicam and make a wild ride,
to prove the security of the battery mounting, and prove the bullet-proofness of this steel bike.

Another great advantage of the 2.5" wide Big Hank slick at ten PSI, is that its primary shock absorbing ability not only babies the rim and the spokes against any chance of bend or break, but cushions the eZee internals:
keep in mind that this tire can deflect and wrinkle and rebound all day: NO shock to the motor's planetary gears can occur.
Rear tire, which bears most all of the weight and shocks, is fine for me at 20PSI: its static deflection (contact patch) is moderate, but helpful for added braking traction. I am feeling no want whatsoever for a front brake; I simply drive this bike
like I drove my rear-wheel-brake-only 1922 Model T, for 25k miles...just look well ahead and anticipate what idiot drivers and pedestrians might do, and so don't run faster than conditions indicate as prudent.
Another justification for omitting a front brake: I will never suffer an over the bars front wheel lock-up, or skid-fall that would result from a front wheel lock up.
If I brake the coaster brake too hard, forgetting to lean back when I do, all that happens is a momentary skid, but no loss of bike verticality. Verticality is not a real word, but you get the picture :wink: As you know, too much front brake on wet or snow or sand, etc, leads to a lay-down of the bike. I will never lay down this bike in a braking error situation.

But...what's sauce for this gander could be poison for other riders. By common consensus, ALL bikes should have a front brake;
I just happen to have a setup and riding style and locale where I can do without that second brake.

So, in a few days or a week I'll have the Ping pack remounted as described above and take you for a vicarious ride around
the sunken rockpit park, at 18 to 20 mph, over tree roots and sidewalk ledges, with me sitting fully on the Thudbuster saddle.
It will be a wild ride across the flats of the park, up the very steep sides, over ruts, rocks, grass, dips and tree roots,
and the battery must stay put and the bike suffer no strain damages at all. It will be a sight to see in person;
video will be interesting too.

Now to try again to upload #31A. It's a good talking video, casually made as it is; you'll see the local terrain and a one-handed ebiker and...a shaky cameraman's lazy effort to just get the story told.

 

[Reid Welch]

BIG THANKS go again to Coral Way Bike Shop of Miami, the folks who sold me the Sun Kruiser, a quality, basic steel bike, for $200 last November; the solid foundation for this project.

I wanted to obtain a complete, spare rear wheel, in case I ever break a spoke or bend a rim or wear out any of the coaster brake mechanism.
And too, I want to decrease the rear cog from 18T OEM to as small as possible, to gear up the bike for pedal assisting above the eZee's 20mph.
As it turns out: the smallest cog they can get for this rear wheel hub is 16T; that will be a help.

Ordered on Monday, the wheel and the 16T cog were ready to pick up from their shop today.
Cost? $35 for the complete wheel with all the OEM hardware, free for the 16T cog, and 12 bucks for a skinny chain,
derailleur chain, which fits this single speed bike's cogs better; less side slop,
and the long chain is lighter too than regular single speed chain, and will run even quieter.

I'm swapping in the new cog and replenishing the coaster brake's grease now.
Pictures coming to this posting shortly.


Also to do: mount the 36/20 PING pack again to its mesh basket, this time with a different fastening approach
as was described in a posting above. Must go to the fabric supply store and get some PVC-E glue (fabric glue):
it will stick to duct tape and will make the final sealing of the Ping pack's wire exits,
and also cement, removably, black fake suede cloth to the top and two or three sides of the pack.
It should all look pretty neat when done, perhaps tomorrow. Then: bombs away! I go pounding and flying over rough stuff,
as if this were a rugged mountain bike...yet, it's just a plain old beach cruiser.
I don't suppose any ebike has ever been built quite like this mild-speed but rugged beast, so simple that no advanced ebiker
would even think it worth a tinker's damn...until he takes it for a flight and gives it his worst punishment, without getting a punished buttski.

 

[Reid Welch]

click here for a slideshow showing today's work done
see there:
= a new, spare rear Sun Kruiser wheel to have on hand for parts-needs in the future. It cost only $35US from the LBS.
=exchanging the OEM 18T rear cog for a 16T cog, for better (slower) spinning-assist at 20mph and over
=swapping out the standard singlespeed chain for narrower, standard derailleur chain: it fits the cog and chainwheel better,
illustrating the use of a chainbreaker tool.
=showing how I've modded the coaster brake hub for regreasing without disassembly. This pushes out dirty grease;
the brake shoes of a coaster brake generate metal fines, and also, the primitive dust shields cannot keep water and dirt
from getting into the hub in time. Therefore, regular grease-feeding will make this coaster hub last for thousands of miles
with only the small chore of injecting fresh, soft lithium grease from time to time
=cleaning the re-cogged wheel with Lexol leather cleaner: a glycerin based soap harmless to rubber, but solvent to grease.
=reinstalling the wheel and giving it a spin. Now, instead of the OEM 48 front chainwheel, the bike has a 52T chainwheel,
and that 16T rear cog: harder to manually pedal at slow speeds, but ideal for speeding the bike with human assist at 20mph.

__________

Next up: beautifying the PING 36/20 pack and SECURELY mounting it to the steel mesh rear basket
so that it can never shift or hop out or attract the interest of bikenappers.

TBC....

 

[The Stig]

I'm thinking of flooding my puma with oil to clean it out. Then leaving some in there for normal running. Doesn't that sound like a good idea?

 

[Reid Welch]

I'm thinking of flooding my puma with oil to clean it out. Then leaving some in there for normal running.
Doesn't that sound like a good idea?

To me it does. But you run that tiny chance of mishap of something like an adhesive failure (most unlikely, it seems) of a senor or wire.

For how long that I've had oil in the eZee, and it is running like a champ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CKzRzry0Yk
old video showing the oil fill and drain operation,
made last December, so: four months so far and no problems at all,
just oil weepage out of the seals and though the wiring bundle's sheath length:
oil creeps. So do I in making progress, ha ha.

hth,
Reid

 

[Reid Welch]

Today's work, in progress, more images coming soon

denuding a 45A blade fuse. the controller uses no more than 20A; this is merely a disaster fuse

clipped off excess metal. these fuses are simply made of tin: a low melting point metal

bending the tab for a firm, mechanical crimp, in preparation for soldering

soldered, permanent, yet easy to replace.
the twinned output wires: both will feed + to the controller, and one is
for the + of the charger connection

epoxy putty to mechanically protect the blade fuse from vibration breakage

now to apply a first coat of water-based, waterproof-when-dry PVC glue

it dries rubbery and clear, but how well will it bond to the vinyl coat of the duct tape? answer to be determined by service success or failure

speed curing/drying the first thin coat at 140F. more coats will be applied.

POINT: this bike is going to be fully dunkable in fresh water, without harm to any of its components.
It will be more than a ride-in-the-rain ebike: it's going to be a stunt bike capable of running fully underwater in a pool.

More images soon: more coats of Sobo glue, then Blue Tacked to the basket, tied across the top to the basket,
covered with fabric, wires lead out from the bottom of the basket, run through the seatpost tube to the waterproofed eZee controller,
and other then-minor wiring neatening to be done,

and then mount the new 12LED general purpose headlight designed by Justin Elmore-Lemoir, powered from the Cycle Analyst,
and seal the Cycle Analyst bottom panel and its mode-change push button against water ingress.

 

[Reid Welch]

third coat of the rubbery Sobo stuff; slow baked between coats, it becomes clear, also gaining great thickness

refresher view of the battery basket. the three Ping wires will exit from the front left corner bottom of the basket

the beauty of single speed: 52T front and 16T rear and narrow chain in a straight line: maximum power transfer,
great ease of maintenance. and it looks... manly (jk, but true).

bike as it is at the moment, ready for a manual pedal ride which I just completed. this ratio is still fine for level roads,
provided there's no headwind. it makes for stronger legs too. I'll use this ratio for pedal assist, especially above 20mph.

So you see, it's a medium speed ebike, but ultra clean and simple looking, and it will be bulletproof as can be,
and also take to water waist deep like a duck: a true, triple hybrid bike like none the world has ever seen before.


Pardon my dreaming aloud. Dreams do come true, and this is a wet dream, ha ha! :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz5SbsROsFU
The only gas I'll pass in water is this kind

And you see, no-one yet has submarined a land-style ebike, but I will, or drown in the trying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70E74cISPmo


Failbread!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7erm00aOqY

Now for Reid Welch's success run to come!
Need lead weights and a snorkle! Watch me ampda-aquavolts

Little man, big aspirations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QszoMZRtins

I've had this bug to ride a bike successfully in water since the year 1960, when I was six years old.
Hurricane Donna had just dumped many inches of water on our area. The local sunken park, the century old former rockpit,
had become a temporary lake, about three or four feet of water.
Neighborhood boys were bombing down its steep side slopes and into the drink, but not getting very far.
I decided then, almost fifty years ago now, that someday I would do that same stunt, but stay on the saddle
and plow right on through and on and up and out, and call it an automatic bike wash job.

 

[Reid Welch]

Real-time photos, slow baking to speed cure between coats

This brand is a bit thicker and is better for building up coats, yet, below, you'll see an even better product: the cauking stuff

See how the thickness of this soft, rubbery, removable, waterproof stuff builds up?

I "invent" as I go along, sometimes with successful results. Instead of cloth or foam under the battery: 1/4" foam board.
This will have its edges blackened with a magic marker, and then heavily cemented to the bottom of the PING with...

Black edges to make the mount invisible when the pack is put into the black mesh basket

Learning by doing: what I should have used all along instead of the fabric glues above. This Polyseamseal is the -identical-
chemistry (PVC-E), just more viscous. It spreads on thick and smoothly with a brush and can be filleted with a wetted finger

We heavily glue the foam board to the entire bottom of the pack; this will take some time to fully cure, as it is not
fully exposed to air, but in time it will fully dry, turn clear and fully bond to the bottom of the pack

The stuff is tacky to the touch, but not sticky. It is anti-slip unless dusted with talcum powder. This coat on the bottommost
side of the foam board is very thickly applied, and will bed into the mesh of the basket bottom, preventing side-slippage.
Nylon string, dyed black, will then be laced over and around the pack multiple times to secure the 15 pound battery from jumping up.
The foam board will offer some slight compression and will take some compression set to make the unit-seating pressure even across the bottom of the pack:
this is a hardtail bike and the upthrows will be contrained by the tie cords, and the down-slams absorbed to some extent
by the slightly crushable, yet slightly resilient foam board.

---

Now we just let it bake at 140F for a number of hours, and then lay it into the bike's basket, feeding the three wires down and out the bottom of the basket. And then lace the battery in place with my custom-dyed high strength masons' nylon string.

I'll show you a picture of this home-dyed string: Rit fabric dye in a pot on the stove, a couple hours at simmer,
rinse, and see how attractive a black this white string becomes?

NYLON can be dyed any color, through and through. String is the easiest, fastest to dye. Connectors and nylon screws require days of soaking to fully dye-through.

Here is glossy white nylon twine, made black.

Note that the black twine is not wet: that's its natural gloss.
This will be used to lace, tie, secure the ping into the basket: curb-jump proof, yet, removable if and when the pack needs servicing;
also, quite thief-proof.

----now for a shot of the pack in the oven again; it will soon be ready to lay into the basket and lace-tied for jumping curbs

----
With the remaining daylight, it's 7:30PM as I write, I will enlarge and grommet the wire basket's wire exit hole,
and route the power wires from the bottle-mounted eZee controller, through the seatpost tube, to the kill switch,
and from there, compression connectors to connect the battery to the kill switch, etc.

Progress, when I make progress, is sometimes rapid. We'll see...

 

[Reid Welch]

Fishing battery leads from controller backing plate, through the seatpost tube, to the kill switch, to the basket pack
(all remaining related images will go into this form...check back later to see also
the final mounting of the pack, laced into the basket. Thanks,

Reid, the trial and lots of error guy :lol:

fresh images just made, these may serve as idea fodder for other builders. more to come in this form later

Exit point for the battery wires

Grommetted

The entry hole for the red and black battery wires will be drilled here in a moment

Right through the diecast controller backplate, through the bike tube. More holes, swiss cheese, will go into that plate,
and its bottom is totally open: maximum air flow through the controller. See, the BOARD is waterproof, not the enclosure.
Epoxy is our friend

That little air space will be water sealed after the wires are pulled

---
Now for the hard part: fishing the wires. It's getting dark. I may have to finish this tomorrow, as I need really good daylight by which to see. Bad eyesight sucks; over-40s understand....

 

[Almasi]

Nice work, I really hope for you that the battery will not need any servicing (like changing 1 cell)!

Clean stealth look!

 

[Lucky_Hoodlum]

Been lurking on the forum for sometime now reading and gathering as much information as possible, your build has been a wealth of information thankyou for taking the time to document it so well for us 'noobs' looking to build up an electric bicycle, i very much like the videos in your worklog, it helps greatly in understanding. Best of luck with your underwater ride also.

 

[Reid Welch]

^
Thanks, guys, for bearing with my interminable 'adventures' in detailing this modest bike.
This afternoon I've been fishing and pulling the power wires. Meanwhile, the pack remains in the oven,
baking/curing its thick (yet easily removed) waterproofing coat of PVC-E material. When it's fully cured,
all the white will have turned clear.

Now, the eZee controller, as supplied, is a supposedly sealed box containing a modest but robust 20A controller board,
with a plethora of quick connect lead outs from its bottom, all "sealed" with black butyl rubber caulk. No way this system is truly sealed, because water WILL get into it in time, if the bike is soaked: green would grow inside and the controller would malfunction.
Why, there are even four, open screw holes in the back plate for proprietary mounting on eZee brand bikes: if we don't seal those, at least: it's a perfect ingress for water to flood into the box, but not be able to get out.

My concept was and is to epoxy-pour (like a bar top) the controller board itself, only. And the box? Fully open at the bottom
and at its sides, allowing full ventilation, both for air-rush-through cooling whilst riding, and for drying out when wetted.
This controller will work underwater without the least trouble.

Today: pull the two power wires up the seat post tube. Holes have to be made.
At the top of the seat tube, but below the point where the Thudbuster post stops, two exit holes are made.
One exit hole is for the red wire, to feed right into the kill switch. That wire will continue out from the other side of the kill switch.
In the photos you see the hole-making operations, and pulling the wires, and disguising the bright red plus wire at its exit point
with a couple of inches of black heat shrink.
These holes all will be "grommeted " with PVC caulk later, so that no water can ever enter the seat post tube;
this caulking stuff is adhering, yet easily removed when and if the need arises.

This set of images is more or less self explanatory if you have read the description above.
The rack is now leveled, secured, ready for the battery pack to install (when it's finished baking its coating),
then a simple connection to the kill switch and installation of the trailer-type charger plug, all under the basket out of normal sight.
The wire run from basket to seat tube will be more or less invisible to the casual eye.
And then string-tie that pack securely to the basket, and decide how or if to cover it with cloth or nylon cloth for neat appearance.

Images of an hour ago:

More notes: the fabric glue stuff does two things: seals and prevents screws from backing out of their own accord:
the case, you see, is only clamped partially closed; note the air gap? That's for water drainage and for ventilation.
The smears of PVC-E glue hold the screws from working out, yet they are removable by a screwdriver, and the smears
of glue in the corners of the box gaps set and maintain an even, small gap.

Lots of grinding dust and dirt and scuffed paint. I will repaint the bike someday in Krylon Fusion Yellow, a super nice bright yellow,
nothing fancy: I think I'll just strip down the bike of the battery rack, fenders, wheels and fork and wet sand and otherwise prep,
and go to work with the spray can.
Such a paint, if sprayed in low humidity and at 75F, lays out very smooth and glossy.
But this is a working bike, not a piece of the painter's art: I just want it to be drivable and also a beater,
and not cry if I lay it down: I can retouch scrapes and scratches with a small brush: yellow is an easy color to retouch,
unlike fancy clearcoat candy or metallic or pearl paint jobs.

Yellow with satin black Planet bike fenders....someday...it will look good and so that's about the end of the story for today.

Tomorrow afternoon: in with the pack, lace it tight, hook up the connecting wires, and maybe wrap and tuck the front fork cable,
and mount Justin's LED light to the Cycle Analyst, and call it a done deal.

Whew! :lol:

 

[Lucky_Hoodlum]

Very nice work with wires in the frame much neater than taping to outside. I worry of the joins in wire, have you also epoxied these to seal them not just taped?

 

[Reid Welch]

Very nice work with wires in the frame much neater than taping to outside. I worry of the joins in wire, have you also epoxied these to seal them not just taped?

Yes. All wires are soldered, sealed with glue-bearing shrink wrap, painted over with sealant or epoxy: no water can get into the wires anywhere to creep under and along the insulation.

It will be more dunkable than a donut, for sure. I hope to make some pretty exciting videos of running off sidewalk curbings at high (20mph) speed, banging over tree roots and rough turf, etc. And mostly: I want to make videos sharing the bike with
curious people in public, getting their reactions on video for youtube, selling the hybrid bike concept:

an ebike need not look weird or moto-like, though that's OK too.
I just want to make a stealth bike that offers surprises to the vast majority of folks who have never seen an ebike.

For example of what I don't much cotton to: high end commercially offered bikes like the Giant DX: full of cables and shifters
and fancy parts. A two or three thousand dollar bike? Who would dare rough-ride such a bike, or leave it unattended while shopping?

Here's what I mean:

It just looks too nice to leave unstolen...and would it live long if driven like a mountain bike?
It also click-click-clicks in freewheel mode, while you coast.
My bike, a coaster brake bike, makes NO sound while coasting or pedaling, and only a miniscule whine when running electric.
Stealth. Which is why I have that fearsome ding-ding bell!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwMZp2sAiEU
"Scary, eh?"

NO!