Streetfighter/Sportbike build

[kuoppis]

Cool that you are getting this street legal. That should be a very strong frame. I liked the look of the bike. Like a fighter style. Cool cool. Why did you go for the hub motor over a mid drive?

Hub motor just seemed easier to fit. And i like how the cables look going into the motor Also more space for batteries and stuff and more importantly no chain noise. Only thing you can hear driving is little electric wheeze and little chiming from brake pads hitting the rotor. (and bms peeps after hard acceleration )

One more picture with fairings on. Lots of work to be done during winter to get these ready for some black paint

 

[Redsea Rider]

[youtube]C-78omkkURg[/youtube]

 

[Redsea Rider]

Today some more testing, had to lower battery amps to 200A otherwise bms would cut due to low voltage
Cells were supposed to be able to 270A continuous

Hi How's it going - as the Nanjing Far Driver, North American Region, District Manager and Business Development Lead I am so proud you chose our product. For this bms limitation issue specifically I may have a suggestion. If the cells are indeed rated for 270A continuous discharge I reccomend bypassing the BMS output and routing the DC output directly from the battery to the DC terminals of the controller.

There is a low voltage setting in the controller and the safety net of the MOE overcurrent fault which ceases controller processing instantly if an overcurrent moment arises. It's there to protect both battery and motor.

One other suggestion I can offer is that you ensure that the bus cables are equal to or greater mm² diameter then the phase cables. It's difficult to ascertain whether your build meets or exceeds this requirement. Keep in mind that the controller can, but rarely will double your bus current. Although when it does it is only pulsing that current for a third of the time that the bus cable is so its carrying its load one third of the time the bus cable carries its load which is constant. Even when it is double or even triple it would be less or equal to what the bus carries constantly over time.

Hopefully that is understood and not too confusing.
Great build and hopefully you'll be enjoying your mean green machine on the road soon!
Sincerely

 

[Redsea Rider]

... The nanjing bluetooth app does not let me choose the right temp sensor so it thinks my motor is 100C°( i guess i have to wait for update or try with android phone). It does accelerate like a beast with bike weighing around 180kg plus my 75kg...

I'm unclear as to which platform you are using to adjust parameters. On the iOS and android apps you can adjust the motor temperature sensor coefficient.
You'll find the parameter on the first page in the last (lowest) second from bottom on the left. The iOS version is in english it reads "temp coefficient".
Using the Android app the parameter is located in the same position.

You can try making some ajustments until your temperature reads correctly in the digital instrument panel.

 

[kuoppis]

Today some more testing, had to lower battery amps to 200A otherwise bms would cut due to low voltage
Cells were supposed to be able to 270A continuous

Hi How's it going - as the Nanjing Far Driver, North American Region, District Manager and Business Development Lead I am so proud you chose our product. For this bms limitation issue specifically I may have a suggestion. If the cells are indeed rated for 270A continuous discharge I reccomend bypassing the BMS output and routing the DC output directly from the battery to the DC terminals of the controller.

There is a low voltage setting in the controller and the safety net of the MOE overcurrent fault which ceases controller processing instantly if an overcurrent moment arises. It's there to protect both battery and motor.

One other suggestion I can offer is that you ensure that the bus cables are equal to or greater mm² diameter then the phase cables. It's difficult to ascertain whether your build meets or exceeds this requirement. Keep in mind that the controller can, but rarely will double your bus current. Although when it does it is only pulsing that current for a third of the time that the bus cable is so its carrying its load one third of the time the bus cable carries its load which is constant. Even when it is double or even triple it would be less or equal to what the bus carries constantly over time.

Hopefully that is understood and not too confusing.
Great build and hopefully you'll be enjoying your mean green machine on the road soon!
Sincerely

I did try to set bms lvc to 2,1V and after that raised max amps to 250A but bms still kicked in when accelerating. I also noticed that i do have quite big imbalance between cells since i did not paraller balance them before assembling the pack. I will first try to balance and see if that helps.
Phase and battery cables are both 25mm² and they should sufficient as they wont even get warm.

Do you happen to have a way to get me EU CE certificate for this controller? On https://www.far-driver.com/about-us/ they say they have the certificates and i have tried to contact them but no answer?

... The nanjing bluetooth app does not let me choose the right temp sensor so it thinks my motor is 100C°( i guess i have to wait for update or try with android phone). It does accelerate like a beast with bike weighing around 180kg plus my 75kg...

I'm unclear as to which platform you are using to adjust parameters. On the iOS and android apps you can adjust the motor temperature sensor coefficient.
You'll find the parameter on the first page in the last (lowest) second from bottom on the left. The iOS version is in english it reads "temp coefficient".
Using the Android app the parameter is located in the same position.

You can try making some ajustments until your temperature reads correctly in the digital instrument panel.

I have tried on both IOS and android apps to select KTY83-122 which is the temperature sensor the motor has but it does not change when i click it. I can choose KTY84-130 which is why controller reads 100°C instantly. I do not have temp display and i am just worried that the controller will start limiting power when the motor gets warm. Does the coefficient affect this?
I suppose i could just raise the max temperature, it seems the multiplier between KTY84 and KTY83 is x4

 

[j bjork]

Hi How's it going - as the Nanjing Far Driver, North American Region, District Manager and Business Development Lead I am so proud you chose our product.

Hi, if you want more people to choose the controllers you could share some info in this thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=112177

I think the controllers looks interesting, but it is hard to find good info. Some info is contradictory on different sites, some seems obviously wrong etc. Thanks

Sorry for hijacking :wink:

 

[Redsea Rider]

I have tried on both IOS and android apps to select KTY83-122 which is the temperature sensor the motor has but it does not change when i click it. I can choose KTY84-130 which is why controller reads 100°C instantly. I do not have temp display and i am just worried that the controller will start limiting power when the motor gets warm. Does the coefficient affect this?
I suppose i could just raise the max temperature, it seems the multiplier between KTY84 and KTY83 is x4

Would you mind sharing which version of the android app you're using and more importantly sharing a screen capture of the app parameter page(s). I think it would help in troubleshooting.

As far as the cells imbalance try to achieve a close balance before bypassing the bms output. and of course use the bms input for charging.

No promises - but I submitted a request through headquarters and was bounced back to the EU regional director. I'm still waiting for a response.

 

[Redsea Rider]

Hi How's it going - as the Nanjing Far Driver, North American Region, District Manager and Business Development Lead I am so proud you chose our product.

Hi, if you want more people to choose the controllers you could share some info in this thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=112177

I think the controllers looks interesting, but it is hard to find good info. Some info is contradictory on different sites, some seems obviously wrong etc. Thanks

Sorry for hijacking :wink:

No worries bjork - there wasn't a specific build but the complaint allegedly was a sound unlisted on the website... I'm unsure what this referred to but I was able to watch a great deal of videos created by the poster's channel but found nothing regarding our controllers nor any upgrade projects...

Thanks for the suggestion. the only thing I can think of is the beeps emitted when the firmware has been corrupted. This can happen during autoconfigure mode if configuration is interrupted. Its not common though I have bricked a controller myself so its not impossible. The good news is that firmware is easily loaded through the app.

Issues concerning hall sensor voltage are of extremely questionable veracity due to vigorous testing of all product prior to shipping. this is akin to the Tesla brake failure claims.

I had prepared a post but an internal investigation team absorbed the responsibility is all I can say.

Again thank you.

 

[j bjork]

The thread is about collecting information about the controllers.
Like what models are there, what are the true specifications (as the info varies on different sites)
What functions are there? etc.

That one poster reported a problem is not the whole thread.

I had prepared a post but an internal investigation team absorbed the responsibility is all I can say.

 

[kuoppis]

I have tried on both IOS and android apps to select KTY83-122 which is the temperature sensor the motor has but it does not change when i click it. I can choose KTY84-130 which is why controller reads 100°C instantly. I do not have temp display and i am just worried that the controller will start limiting power when the motor gets warm. Does the coefficient affect this?
I suppose i could just raise the max temperature, it seems the multiplier between KTY84 and KTY83 is x4

Would you mind sharing which version of the android app you're using and more importantly sharing a screen capture of the app parameter page(s). I think it would help in troubleshooting.

As far as the cells imbalance try to achieve a close balance before bypassing the bms output. and of course use the bms input for charging.

No promises - but I submitted a request through headquarters and was bounced back to the EU regional director. I'm still waiting for a response.

Android app version is 1.5.4 and IOS app version 2.0.1 both have the same issue; can see option for KTY83-122-> can select it -> but it wont actually change. Saving and reconnecting does not help. I can post couple screenshots when i can if needed?


In the meantime i can share circuit diagrams which i made. If anyone is interested.
Its mostly in Finnish though

 

[Redsea Rider]

The thread is about collecting information about the controllers.
Like what models are there, what are the true specifications (as the info varies on different sites)
What functions are there? etc.

I will post a chart with full specifications of all models this weekend! (in your thread )

For now I will say this the 96xxxx/108xxxx - extended voltage limits are available with the special editions only. All other models adhere to the 28S / 32S LI-ON standards.

 

[kuoppis]

Had brake tests done yesterday, no problems with brakes, clean papers.

One issue with controller: It started to limit power due to high temperature. Reason is the wrong temperature sensor which cannot be changed with software on IOS nor Android. Motor itself was something aroun 40°C and controller thought it was 160°C. I will buy a USB-RS232 adapter and try with PC software.

Another issue with rear wheel balance, I need to somehow try to balance with weights. Its not that bad inbalance, little bouncy around 100km/h+.

 

[kuoppis]

Finally!

After long time waiting to get all tests done I finally got the bike street legal and took it for maiden ride yesterday.

 

[Chalo]

Finally!

After long time waiting to get all tests done I finally got the bike street legal and took it for maiden ride yesterday.

Congratulations! Good job.

 

[Millhouse_5]

How's the performance/range on the 12KW motor. I'm still debating between the 8kw and 12kw for my CBR build.
And if you wouldn't mind me asking, how much wattage are you pulling at 80-100kph?

It's a great looking build. I wish I could do custom fiberglass work like that, but sadly that's just not my talent.

 

[kuoppis]

How's the performance/range on the 12KW motor. I'm still debating between the 8kw and 12kw for my CBR build.
And if you wouldn't mind me asking, how much wattage are you pulling at 80-100kph?

It's a great looking build. I wish I could do custom fiberglass work like that, but sadly that's just not my talent.

I actually have not had the chance to test any of that and probably cant this season as its already pretty cold outside. And things i have to do before any real range or speedtests: balance rear wheel, balance battery cells.


Also fiberglass is not that hard to do, these fairings are actually my first time doing it.

 

[kuoppis]

Little update:
Got my actual license plate, had to pay 400€ taxes for it. Its not bad as ICE builds which are in thousands of euros usually.

Got my rear wheel balanced it was not as hard as i thought. Took about 3h of spinning the wheel and adding weights to the rim.

I started working on fairings. Maybe 10-20h more hours of sanding and adding filler.


I also made little setup to balance the battery:

Now i can have actual charger, a lab power supply and 600W of dummy load all connected at once and controlled with switches.
The reason for this setup is that the charger is "too fast" and as the battery is not balanced some cells reach bms high cell voltage limit while still charging at ~20A. Ant BMS wont start balancing if charging more than 10A. Thats where the lab supply comes in. I can use it to slow charge at 2A which allows the BMS start balancing. And then there is two sauna stove heating elements in parallel which translates around 600W of heating power at ~80V. Those are used to discharge the battery as LiFePo4 does not like to be stored at 100% SOC.

I will update again when i get my fairings done.

 

[MonsterPower]

How did you resolve the temp probe issue?

 

[kuoppis]

How did you resolve the temp probe issue?

At the moment probe type is set to "NONE" in the app. I am not very concerned as motor does not seem to generate much heat. I will be checking the temp manually next summer and hoping they would fix the nanjing mobile app.

 

[kuoppis]

Got everything painted and done. The bike was on display last weekend in Helsinki. Also today i took her for first ride this spring, i drove around 30km and the bike felt amazing. It is so effortless to accelerate and so peaceful to ride. I will still have to tests for 0-100, max speed and range.

 

[speedy1984]

Needs an R6 tail section :thumb:

 

[ebike11]

The thread is about collecting information about the controllers.
Like what models are there, what are the true specifications (as the info varies on different sites)
What functions are there? etc.

I will post a chart with full specifications of all models this weekend! (in your thread )

For now I will say this the 96xxxx/108xxxx - extended voltage limits are available with the special editions only. All other models adhere to the 28S / 32S LI-ON standards.

You mean that there are so.e fardrivers that can handle more than 28S lipo??

 

[BareKuda]

At the moment probe type is set to "NONE" in the app. I am not very concerned as motor does not seem to generate much heat. I will be checking the temp manually next summer and hoping they would fix the nanjing mobile app.

Did you ever fix this? The problem is the your firmware doesn’t have the KTY83-122 in it. You might be able to ask for the firmware for your model that has it.

If you cant update firmware but your controller accepts sensor 4:Cacu, it will simulate motor temp based on the thermal mass of your motor (set in parameters RatedPower), and the current you are using.

If it underestimates your motor temperature just enter a lower RatedPower. If if says your motor is too hot, just enter a higher RatedPower. RatedPower setting has no effect on power going to the motor.

Since its a simulation, it resets each power on, using the mosfet temperature sensor as reference. So if simulation temperature is 120c and you cycle the controller, it will be back at 30c or whatever the controller temperature is.

In my case i have fhe firmware with KTY83-122 but no sensor. Lol. So in my 2000w motor I use Cacu and RatedPower of 1000w.

This simulation will still shut off the controller if it reaches 160c, so it does actually serve a purpose.


Hopefully you can get the firmware to make the real sensor work, thats much more accurate.

 

[Jacka98]

Got everything painted and done. The bike was on display last weekend in Helsinki. Also today i took her for first ride this spring, i drove around 30km and the bike felt amazing. It is so effortless to accelerate and so peaceful to ride. I will still have to tests for 0-100, max speed and range.
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Good looking build! I have also thought to do road legal build. I just feel like there is so much hassle with the restrictions especially because I'm also from Finland