Terrible Experience from E-BikeKit.com !!!

[gensem]

Hahaha... and I was thinking I was the only one that fried a throttle because I didnt have a multimeter at the time. Lesson learned, now I have a fluke and spare throttles, controllers, etc
E-bike should be about having fun, just let it go.

 

[yopappamon]

This thread is still going?

These point by point rebuttles remind me of the whole Joshua Goldbrick fiasco.

Everyone knows Jason is a stand up guy.

 

[Pharther Phurther]

spinningmagnets: Yet another one who doesn't read the posts well.

"You noticed that the wire colors were not the same" Wrong .. they were the same.

"You could have posted here for free, to ask how to tell what unknown wires went to"

I would have if I knew about it .. or that I didn't get the email that 'believed' they were the same.

"E-bikekit.com is a well-known vendor. They are doing the best that they can" .. I agree. If Jason knew more about it .. then this problem would not have existed.

I don't like censorship, lack of communication, and accountability.

The first kit I got from EBK had weak plugs to the hub motor. One of the 3 power wires melted enough to cause concern .. so I replaced them with military grade surface mount waterproof screw locking plugs.

A year later or more the bike died.

I immediately bought a whole new EBK kit because I was a week away from an exposition.

I got a full kit so I didn't have to worry about which part was dead.

The first part I tried to replace was the throttle. It was fixed! The original throttle died.

The expo / event ... 50,000 plus people .. is where I exhibited my e bike for 5 days. I told everyone I bought the kit at e-bikekit.com.

A week later I replaced the old controller with the new one from the last kit and updated the battery box with more surface mount quick connectors ... which was last year.

A few months ago I was carrying a heavy load .. and one of the connectors melted and shorted out. After checking everything I found out the controller blew up.

I installed the older working controller and got a set of newer quick mount connectors with higher amp ratings.

The new setup was 80% or less power .. so recently I ordered a new motor controller in hopes that it would increase the power rating.

The harness for the new controller was not available. So I asked about the color codes.

It never occurred to me that the color codes would be different than what I was told.

It never occurred to me to shop somewhere else.

I was never told to buy someone else's controller.

I was never told to search on Endless Sphere for tech support.

I wired the controller the same way my last one was.

Doesn't this seem logical?

So .. to answer another question .. why I fried 3 throttles? Because I experienced a bad throttle once .. and thought it may have happened again.

I am happy to learn about this forum .. and soon I will have a better motor controller and a new throttle that I ordered.

I am sending the fried motor controller to be examined by a ES specialist so I know what exactly happened ... and I am paying for it to be fixed if it can or if it is a reasonable cost. I was going to send it back .. but if I do .. I will never learn exactly what wires went wrong where. I am sure EBK will not tell me .. and I want to know.

When I find out the facts .. I will post my finding in the appropriate place in the ES forums .. less the drama.

Would anyone else like to attack my character or my logic?

If you want to .. you can PM me ... I will answer any questions or comments you may have .. just don't give me some rap about nonsense or another opinion that has no foundation to the facts posted in this thread.

yopappamon: "Everyone knows Jason is a stand up guy." OK .. and thats why his personal attack about me posted here is professional. Keep them coming boys ... not.

 

[dnmun]

nothing we can do for you since you have an agenda and no sense of how to repair things.

i think it can be locked up now.

too bad you didn't come here and ask advice first rather than just trashing jason for not jumping through a hoop with your first post here.

maybe you can read up on what a hall sensor is now and how they work. nobody else has shorted that many without at least stopping to think. you can't blame someone else for your own lack of skill or knowledge. others learn from their mistakes.

 

[Ykick]

Some people can't sharpen a pencil - 'not the pencil's fault...

But hey, look on the bright side we found your avatar photo:

 

[Pharther Phurther]

dnmun: Your another case of not reading the post and commenting.

There was no sign to point to the first throttle being smoked .. It just didn't work when I turned on the bike for the first time.

It was that first time that the both the throttle and controller fried.

Since the bike didn't work I switched throttles .. since I had a problem with a previous kit .. and I had another throttle. That did not work.

That is when I called EBK. When I talked with David from tech .. and he mentioned that the wire color code are not the same .. that is when I tried his advice of using other colored wires and smoked the third throttle.

Your comment "have an agenda and no sense of how to repair things." is brilliant.

As I mentioned before .. your Hero .. Jason Kraft .. never mentioned coming to Endless Sphere for tech support prior to this problem .. or I may have .. but I continue to get lame comments on this thread.

Ykick: Great post .. I hope you keep up with the child support payments .


Back to my so called 'agenda' ...

Since I was told from EBK tech that I am not the only customer with problems ( I think tech said 6 or more customers with issues ) .. may have tried this same color code wiring ( I am not sure ) ... maybe the other owners and users of the newer EBK controllers will find there way here to this forum. Maybe they figured it out .. or had problems too. Maybe they found the resistance I did in replacement .. or they were told to send their controller back for a refund and shop elsewhere.

Isn't this the forum to share experiences and comment about electric bike info?

This is my experience. I tried to be as accurate as possible.

And some of you continue to try to attack me .. how rude.

 

[Gordo]

Pissing matches seldom end well.
I am tempted to add gas to the fire, but will not.
One thing I will add;
It is very sad that this is the state of e-bike development. No standard colour codes and no schematic or flow chart for trouble shooting included with components. This stupidity will continue to cripple the spread of e-bikes and relegate them to a frustrating hobby, for a few curious fools. I am also one of these fools currently trying to match a 12FET controller to a 3500W hubmotor.
After a lifetime of servicing and repairing everything electronic, I KNOW E-BIKES SHOULD be very simple. The starting point is a schematic. Without one, you draw one yourself. Using a chart/spreadsheet to match one component to another is not the way to go. Open the parts up or use a meter, or a tester to FIRST determine the colour codes, then and only then connect things up.

 

[gensem]

I wonder what are you trying to achieve saying ebikes are too complicated.
We have motorcycles and cars for alot of time and 90% of the owners dont dare to mess with the internals. Why would an ev be diferent?
As soon as you decide to not taking it to the "mechanic" if anything fails the blame is on you.


BR

 

[Pharther Phurther]

Now I found more info ... and another reason this situation arisen.

Here is the link: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28510

One EBK owner posts: "I was surprised at the low quality of the connecters on my ebike kit"

and "I have personally seen 3 friend's Ebikes break down on rides due to loose / bad connectors."

So I was able to find others whom had the same original problem ..

The new kits look like they have solved these issues. Too bad the new EBK connectors are not available to experiment with .. although I prefer locking ones .. such as this :

Gordo: Opening the part ( controller ) up "VOIDS" the warrantee .. EBK policy.

No schematic is definably a no-no.

How many basic installers will have a situation if any company .. not just EBK .. provides the wrong or no info about this problem? More than just me .. I am sure.

 

[Gordo]

Now I found more info ... and another reason this situation arisen.
Here is the link: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28510
One EBK owner posts: "I was surprised at the low quality of the connecters on my ebike kit"
and "I have personally seen 3 friend's Ebikes break down on rides due to loose / bad connectors."
So I was able to find others whom had the same original problem ..
The new kits look like they have solved these issues. Too bad the new EBK connectors are not available to experiment with .. although I prefer locking ones .. such as this :

Gordo: Opening the part ( controller ) up "VOIDS" the warrantee .. EBK policy.
No schematic is definably a no-no.
How many basic installers will have a situation if any company .. not just EBK .. provides the wrong or no info about this problem? More than just me .. I am sure.

And what is the cost of that Amphenol style connector? 2 or 3 X the cost of the the throttle? Our throttles cost $9, thumb or twist.
Who cares about the value of warranty on a $30 controller? Forget the warranty, it is normally worthless, as the cost of shipping exceeds the cost of the part. I was suggesting to open the throttle and look at the colours on the HALL legs. After you fried the first one, not after 3 or 4.
In hindsight, if anyone at EBK had 1/2 a brain they would have changed the plug for you, knowing what you had to begin with.
Until the re-sellers of this Chinese junk adopt a NA Standard of colour codes and Andersons, for EVERYTHING, and don't buy components until they meet specs, we are going to go through this over and over. Because our e-bike re-sellers are so small and inexperienced, they take anything that is shipped and just pass it on to the customer. Connectors that melt, "we will take it up with the manufacturers". Batteries that fail, "We are getting better cells now." They mark this stuff up enough (they hope) to cover failures and survive. You, the customer are the QC.
Try, as we have, selling lumber to these fellows and see what happens. They specify the size of 150mm +/- .000, and then reject it because it shrunk in the heat or grew because of moisture in transit. They specify the moisture content at 8% or less, and then claim after it gets wet in transit and the moisture content has increased. We have been educated in a very different manner. This will continue to be our downfall until we change.
Most e-bikers are too young to know that this is how products from Japan were at first, with IC motorcycles, cars and everything else. The next wave of junk came from South Korea. Now if you want a good e-bike battery, you specify made in Japan or Korea. Even with that, Dewalt and Mikita just double the price of a tool pack and give you a free one if it fails in 12 months.
Because we are such a tiny e-bike market compared to their domestic market, I have my doubts any colour/plug standard will ever be adopted. They have no incentive.

 

[Pharther Phurther]

Gordo: I fried 3 throttles not 4 .. and it was the third one that pointed to the problem that existed directly after the first one was burnt. It was directly after the second throttle .. which was brand new and never used .. that I realized the problem was bigger that a simple throttle replacement. When the bike was all connected and it didn't work .. I had no idea that I 'should' have opened up the throttle and looked at the hall sensor terminals .. as you suggest.

EBK had no opportunity to change the plug. It is not their fault for that. My custom harness used their older style connectors .. except the 3 larger hub wires in which the original EBK plugs melted ( not fully ) and caused me enough concern to replace them. I didn't know the newer controller wires would be different .. even with the same colors in the harness .. so to be sure I asked anyway. Again I wish I was informed of Endless Sphere .. for I would have checked for posts .. or possibility posted a request for info.

I enjoy the innovative builders here on ES. I will be posting my bike pics soon after I get the new controller installed ...

 

[johnrobholmes]

What model amphenol (or knockoff) connector is that?

 

[chroot]

What I suggest is someone who is most experienced nearby your location for example. Edward Lyen, HTK, Ilia Brouk and etc. They are closest where I live. I could come their shop or their home to help me diagnostic the problem.

If you are near San Francisco, I would glad come help you with bunch of gurus provide you inspect, find whats wrong with the throttle connectors that shorted and fried your controller 3rd times. But remember everything is not free and sometime I had to pay for the service.

I tried help.

 

[Gordo]

Gordo: I fried 3 throttles not 4 .. and it was the third one that pointed to the problem that existed directly after the first one was burnt. It was directly after the second throttle .. which was brand new and never used .. that I realized the problem was bigger that a simple throttle replacement. When the bike was all connected and it didn't work .. I had no idea that I 'should' have opened up the throttle and looked at the hall sensor terminals .. as you suggest.

Several people have asked you how you managed to put full battery pack voltage to the throttles? Do you understand the question? If so why haven't you answered? I have just taken 2 new throttles, one twist and one thumb and connect 5V DC every way possible and I don't get any smoke and have not damaged either of them. This might help us all, if we understood what not to do?

I hope you own a multi-meter and spend some time reading posts on ES. There is lots of basic electronic help already posted and many talented people here who help. You should consider spending $29 on a Lyen tester or make a basic tester from a 5V battery, a 100 ohm resistor and a diode.

You got off to a bit of a bad start with your first post, even if it is 100% factually accurate. I'm one of the first guys to go after a supplier who is a screw-up, but in the end, Jason made a mistake getting into a matter he did not understand. He has stated this. He has also made the decision of not to support you because of your abuse. That is his choice and he will accept the cost of this choice.

Don't you have some responsibility to stop after your first attempt at connecting the throttle, not continue to burn up everything in site and then expect 100% refund for your ignorance? You also made a mistake of contacting several people over one problem. This is seldom an effective method of solving a problem. It is often best to stick to one person, until the problem is solved.

I would consider editing your own posts and make a fresh start on ES, from a different perspective.

 

[Pharther Phurther]

chroot: Thank you. Ed was the first person I contacted directly after my situation .. and I purchased a controller, throttle, and and dc - dc converter.

My next purchase is a HTK hub.

Gordo: I don't think I said that .. or I wasn't clear. When I measured the voltage of the green-red-black wires ( after the second test which failed - the first being the first throttle - and the second being the replacement throttle - along with my logic thinking that the first throttle was bad .. and whereas it already fried the first throttle - and the controller - and I didn't know it .) .. I got nothing ( no voltage between red-green-black or any combination thereof ) That's when I called EBK and soon after got a call back from David at tech. The tech from EBK said the black wire was not to be used .. but it was too late . Measuring the voltage of the wires color coded brown and yellow .. with either the red or green .. registered 4.5 VDC. I did not write this down so I can't be sure. Maybe a combination are shunted because of the hall sensor being fried .. but one of the throttle hall sensor wires burnt right off it ( one on each throttle ) .. one seem to be fine .. but when tested with my older motor controller didn't work anyway. I know the last throttle was fried because my friend .. another EBK owner came over .. and we tested his throttle on the old controller and it worked fine. I am sending the controller to be fixed .. if possible .. and I hope they can determine what went wrong. David from EBK tech said to follow the black wire to the pc board and look for a component labeled '22r?' .. but again I'm not sure. I was unable to fully open the motor controller .. and only could see the edge of the breadboard and which wires were solder where .. and David mentioned that he has seen two different types of color codes for these new controllers.

EBK is welcome to correct me about any of this tech info .. but I posted what I remember to the best of my knowledge.

I don't believe that 4.5 VDC can fry a hall sensor either .. and it would make more sense that the red - black wires used for the older EBK motor controllers and the throttle may be power wires .. a color code that has been used for generations to signify DC 'power'.

I'm not sure where the mentioned 'abuse' occurred .. I know what I said and I know what he said .. and I did get very heated and loud when he told me to go buy a throttle. I refuse to be personally attacked by him here .. especially with his attitude .. and misinformation. I didn't stoop that low .. why did he? Why don't you answer that.

You continue to not understand the timeline in the post

I will take no responsibility to wire a system accordingly .. per instructed .. by someone I trusted and the owner of EBK .. and then not have it work.

Why it didn't work .. I did not know at the time.

You are saying .. Why didn't I get the multimeter out then? .. Because the last component of my last EBK kit that failed was a throttle .. I had a spare throttle that was brand new. I hooked it up. Do you see my logic? If my logic at that point is considered 'irresponsible' by you then you are still trying to harass me.

So you recommend:

a.) Wire E Bike Kit Per Instructions.

b.) Turn On Bike.

c.) If it doesn't work .. get a multimeter out and check your three throttle harness wires from the motor controller while it is on. If you don't find 4.5 VDC in any combination .. or a higher voltage than 4.5 VDC then STOP and contact a professional or the company where you purchased it.

OK. Please post this in the appropriate Forum .. and I will add to the thread "Agreed".



Again another exaggerated statement "continue to burn up everything in site and then expect 100% refund". I did not ask for a 100% refund. I asked for the shipment of one throttle .. so I could re-install my older controller .. which I knew worked .. and have a working throttle .. which I did not have .. and could not get within any immediate local drive. If I could have bought one local .. I may not have asked for one .. but I needed one asap. I thought about looking for scooter parts on Craigslist .. but my call to EBK was first .. and resulted in this fiasco.

"You also made a mistake of contacting several people over one problem" ... Excuse me? I called EBK and only EBK. I talked to Jason .. and he had David from tech call me. I did not have any issues with David .. whom seemed very knowledgeable that things have changed .. and it seemed that we were both 'discovering' the problem. I even told David that if can't figure it out .. check inside the throttle assembly and see if one the hall sensor wires is burnt off completely. I don't remember if he already knew about that or not. At the time I thought that this problem was still not defined at EBK .. and both of us didn't know all the facts .. and that sharing this folly openly was shedding light on the real issue .. that the color codes have changed.

Hope that clarifies things.

 

[John in CR]

JasonEBK,

A small percentage of customers can't be satisfied, and as you mentioned they will suck the life out of you. It's best to just identify them as early as possible and terminate the business relationship. Give them a return authorization number and process the refund when the package arrives. It's just a cost of doing business and trying to support such customers would be far more costly and reduce the service level for your good customers. Learning to identify them early is the key and is the hardest part.

John

 

[ambroseliao]

Well said, John in CR,

I feel as if the same thing is happening to ES here. We need to terminate this relationship before his replies to all of us exceed 100 lines per reply.

Unsubscribed.

Ambrose

 

[Gordo]

Gordo:
"You also made a mistake of contacting several people over one problem" ... Excuse me? I called EBK and only EBK. I talked to Jason .. and he had David from tech call me. I did not have any issues with David ..
Hope that clarifies things.

I quote from your post;
"I asked both employee Pat and president Jason Kraft to advise me about the color codes for the new controllers."

Pat, Jason, David.....SEVERAL PEOPLE.

And from Jason;
"He kept calling and calling and even texting David over the weekend (we were not open) on his personal cell phone. He could not wait for a proper answer and had to go messing around and made things worse."
Not quite the same picture you have painted.

I made a suggestion that you do a reset and start again. You, instead have decided to dig a bigger hole to bury yourself in.

 

[dnmun]

no reset!!!!

this thread is a horrible experience. please lock it and throw it away. wow.

 

[Pharther Phurther]

Gordo: You keep inventing a series of events with no knowledge but inaccuracies from only skimming posts.

email Aug 13: "Since I would be replacing a older motor controller .. would you include the adapter / newer plugs that mate with the motor controller I see on the web site?"

Reply: "We do not sell or have any adapter for the controllers." (Pat)

My response: "Im gonna have to hot wire the connectors since I have the older hub .. are all the color codes the same?" ( Sent to Pat & Jason )

Reply: "The colors underneath I believe are the same too. You should be able to figure it out." (Jason)

3 days later ... I called after it failed on Aug 19.

I did not make things worse. It is a complete fabrication by Jason.

That day .. after my first call .. Jason sent me a email: "Our tech has figured it out and will call you shortly."

I received my first call from David EBK tech. We discussed the problem. He said he would call me back. When I was waiting I found another good used throttle to test with the wires David pointed out were the correct ones. That is when I saw the 3rd throttle smoke. I opened the throttle up and noticed one wire on the hall sensor fried. I then opened the other two previous ones .. and found one fried and no visible damage to the other. I called David with the update (once) .. I called once more ?? min. later. Then I texted him if he could receive texts and that I would send pics .. which I sent two pics of my bike and no message. After that I received one phone call from David. I was still confused to what happened and what was at fault. David texted me back a coupon code for 20% any purchase. I sent a email thanking EBK for the discount ... but when reviewing the previous emails it occurred to me that I was not at fault .. and I attached the original emails the same reply.

The next day - Saturday I texted my issue concerning the email I wrote .. and asked if David could help Jason figure this out during the weekend.

On Monday Aug 22 I received two emails from Jason.

First One: "Please send the controller back for a full refund."

Second One: "Dave just told me your were 100% told that opening the controller would void your warranty. Is this correct?"

I called Jason and stated that the controller was long since fried prior to my conversation with David .. and David on Friday was on the phone with me while we were assessing which wires were the culprit to determine the problem .. in which yes .. I did have the controller opened to see where each wire was attached to the pc board. Jason said just send it back. That was no problem. I asked for him to ship another throttle so I could get the bike running. He said no. That's when I got angry.

There is your picture ... painted. I hope you are satisfied.

There are additional details / comments .. but I'm being accused of too many posts and "exceeding 100 lines" replying to accusations from people with no purpose but to try to defend somebody's lame response to a problem they created and harass me.

John in CR: Replacing items in full when they are damaged due to the inaccuracy of the installation instructions given is the cost of business .. and good business practice.

 

[joe tomten]

I've always been treated fairly by Jason and the good e-bikekit folks. They take responsibility.

No one is even bothering to skim your posts at this point.

You life will always be miserable until you begin to take responsibility for your own self and actions. Best of luck on that score.

Meanwhile you are just creating this wonderful image of youself as a incompetent and miserable malcontent. Maybe that is all you are about?

Again, Good luck!

 

[Spacey]

I can't believe this thread is still going on!

 

[gensem]

I dont think this should be locked.
Best thing would be to delete it.