The BEST and FIRST Qulbix Raptor mid-drive build!

I'm really pleased to hear that you're enjoying your bike. This really is the ideal way to make a mid drive. Reducing the motor down 30x so that you can overdrive it back up 4x makes no sense. Much better to O.D. the pedals 4x and reduce the motor 8x separately.

Yes you saw the frame for my new mid mount. It's a Ruff cruiser which is readily available to anyone. The mid mount drive will adapt right over. It fits any frame with some room between the bottom bracket and rear wheel.

I shipped the first Q76R bottom bracket drive off to Mammalian today. The three prototype rear hubs are at the anodizer in Portland right now. As soon as they're back I'll get his 19" moto rim laced in with 10 gauge spokes and send his swingarm drive as well.

I'm working on a 165-170mm hub with the ratchet ring for a free hub. This will allow users to install a 7 or 8 speed cassette.
 
LightningRods said:
I'm really pleased to hear that you're enjoying your bike. This really is the ideal way to make a mid drive. Reducing the motor down 30x so that you can overdrive it back up 4x makes no sense. Much better to O.D. the pedals 4x and reduce the motor 8x separately.

Yes you saw the frame for my new mid mount. It's a Ruff cruiser which is readily available to anyone. The mid mount drive will adapt right over. It fits any frame with some room between the bottom bracket and rear wheel.

I shipped the first Q76R bottom bracket drive off to Mammalian today. The three prototype rear hubs are at the anodizer in Portland right now. As soon as they're back I'll get his 19" moto rim laced in with 10 gauge spokes and send his swingarm drive as well.

I'm working on a 165-170mm hub with the ratchet ring for a free hub. This will allow users to install a 7 or 8 speed cassette.
Click to expand...

you make the coolest stuff.
 
LightningRods said:
I tore a freehub all the way down to the bare alloy hub today. I'm sure that we can make a 10 speed freehub right side for this new billet hub. The tricky bit is the ratchet ring and you can buy that as a replacement part. I've heard that it's possible to get the ratchet ring and pawls for a DT Swiss. If so that's the way I plan to go.

I also got a BeamTS hall effect torque sensor working with a CA3 today. This nifty little gadget will read the tension on a run of human powered drive chain and translate that tension into a throttle signal. This will work on this new swingarm drive because the human power and motor power run separately. My mid mount drives for cargo bikes and cruisers will also work with this torque sensor.
Click to expand...

________________________

I wasnt paying attention when you made this post--- or i would have been on you for advice--- You showed me where the BeamTS should go and i think it was the right side--

And I am interested in learning more about your trike build for UT-- i may get another trike--they sure are easy on the hind end... but too low for where i prospect... maybe a small block on one of them

Your Quilbix is a beauty
 
Here is how the BeamTS fit on the Madsen cargo bike build that I did:

IMG_5464.jpg


I just got the 3D model back on an adapter hub I designed to fit a 12 magnet PAS ring to the larger diameter ISIS BB axle.

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Here is the hub in place on the ISIS axle. You can also see the plate that I fabricated to position the PAS sensor behind the magnet ring.

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I have two BeamTS units in stock with the adjustable alloy mounting bracket.

The Utah Trike drive turned out great. The trike I had in the shop for the design work was a Big Tad fat tire trike.

UtahTrike1.jpg


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I'm sorry that you're having problem with the head bolts on your frame. Other than using Locktite or Nylock nuts I wouldn't know what to do to stop them from working loose. A telescopic front fork would be a nice addition for off road. You should contact the frame builder and ask them if they have a fix for their head unit.

I'm eager to get the Qulbix 165mm rear wheel hubs back from the plater so that I know what my all up costs will be. The swingarm drive itself will be very affordable. There are cheaper solutions than my billet hub for people wanting to bodge something together on the cheap. I'm a bit concerned what the Big Block would do to those left side sprockets that attach to the spokes. I wouldn't go that cheap.
 
PM sent to Jazzman.

I finally got the hubs back from the plater. They're beautiful! I'll be posting photos soon. Now the hubs are off to the wheel builder to lace to 19" motorcycle rims with 10 gauge spokes.
 
LightningRods said:
PM sent to Jazzman.

I finally got the hubs back from the plater. They're beautiful! I'll be posting photos soon. Now the hubs are off to the wheel builder to lace to 19" motorcycle rims with 10 gauge spokes.
Click to expand...

Sweet! Can't wait!
 
Mike, I dont know if you saw it -----but if the torque sensor you have will work with the CA3 on mine , I would like to buy one from you---


Now, on another note-----I am thinking ..... dangerous....

Mike, Can you think of a way i could get 4 gears with a cassette---or ANY WAY? Or is this delta/wye electronic transmission thing something that may work for me?

Is there a way to make a 4 gear cassette?

If so could i have the last gear pull like the 14th gear of the Rohloff? It is so smooth, but i think it is too much for my application-- i would have loved it on my tadpole trike!!!!!!

I find myself grabbing four to five gears at a time on the Rohloff...

i have been busy at a new travel nurse contract in Dallas----between that and learning about my new Icom ham radio--i have been distracted~~~~

i cant wait for the videos of the Quilbix in action
 
You can always just use the four outer gears of a five speed thread-on cassette. You'll only have a range from 14t to 28t at best and I can't tell you how long the freewheel in the cassette will last. Unfortunately 5 speed cassettes are now the red headed step children of the derailleur world. Running 3000 watts through one- maybe not the best idea.

I know what you're saying about the Rohloff. You have 14 gears and need 4 or 5 tops. It's the ideal transmission otherwise but the super close ratio gazillion gears approach that the pedal humpers want is not ideal for high powered ebikes. We need very few gears with a wide ratio spread.

I'm in the process of making custom stainless steel gear sets with spacers. They fit a Shimano free hub spline. You can have a single speed, or two speeds, or as many as you want up to eight. I'm using 5mm spacing which is standard for 8 speeds. If you want to run fewer gears you just set the stops on your 8 speed derailleur to limit the range of motion. I use 8 speed because that's the lowest sprocket count for really decent derailleurs.

What I don't know is how large a ratio jump you can have from one gear to the next and still have decent shifting. 15% per gear is fairly typical. Over 8 gears you can get a decent spread. I'd like to have 300%.

I have a Beam TS chain tension torque sensor in stock. I also just made an adapter hub to attach a PAS magnet ring directly to the ISIS large diameter axle. Everything I could find off the rack was for small diameter square tapers or bolted to the chainring. Email is best for dealing with that transaction, Paul. It's off topic here.
 
Thanks E-G. The idea was to take a motorcycle hub and scale it down to fit a bicycle. I've never been a huge fan of cup and cone bearings, especially for off road use.
 
LightningRods said:
Thanks E-G. The idea was to take a motorcycle hub and scale it down to fit a bicycle. I've never been a huge fan of cup and cone bearings, especially for off road use.
Click to expand...

Even road use they get grunge in them. Sealed bearings are far better.
 
Fantastic products Mike, will the rear hubs be available via your website? Perhaps I missed it in the thread but are the hubs designed for specific dropout size? 155mm? Cheers
 
Rube said:
Fantastic products Mike, will the rear hubs be available via your website? Perhaps I missed it in the thread but are the hubs designed for specific dropout size? 155mm? Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks Rube. I appreciate the kind comment. All of my products including the hubs will be available on our online store. http://lightning-rods10.mybigcommerce.com/?ctk=4E0J7466PN14D53BX8AJC78N

My plan is to initially make hubs only for the 165mm dropout Qulbix swingarm. My reasoning is that the wider dropout allows more space for the sprocket and brake rotor on the left while keeping the spoke flanges centered in the hub. We won't have to resort to offset wheel dishing when the rims are laced up.

There is a lot of room on the right side of the hub right now. I'm looking for a durable freehub that is readily available with a thread in ratchet ring and 12mm sealed bearings. My plan is to have an "Alpine" 8 speed cassette with the widest possible range of gears. So you can drive the hub with the motor single speed on the left and pedal along, or use a bottom bracket mid drive driving though the chainwheel and drive the 8 speeds on the right.
 
I have a complete bike coming next week to do extensive testing on. I've designed a heavy duty gear set that bolts together. I also have a midline Alpine gear set that I'm going to test. I expect the stress on the driveline to be so much lower that the higher tooth count bicycle gear set may be strong enough. Custom parts are going to cost more to make than mass produced parts. I only make custom parts when there is a need for them. If the Big Block folds the bicycle parts like a taco shell then I'll know that my .135" thick stainless gears are needed.

Shim_Sprockets_1.jpg


Shim_Sprockets_2.jpg


This is actually a very versatile system. The spacers can be used to create a complete 8 speed gear set, a partial gear set of as many gears as you want, or a single speed 1/2" or #219. If you're running 72V or more through a Big Block you probably don't need more than one speed. A 72V Big Block will pull hard up to 50 mph in one gear. That's enough for most people.
 
Isn't that the same hole pattern as a typical brake rotor? I guess you can run a 5mm bolt through all those holes and lock each one of those spacers together. If you marked each spacer with a number to indicate order and specific placement, they could all be tapped straight through and held together with 6 screws. Either way the screws would help distribute the load across more surface area of the hub.
 
Hey E-G,

It looks like a disc brake pattern but the bolt circle diameter is different. I do plan to run six hardened M5 bolts though the entire assembly. It will function as a solid block of metal.

I was on the phone with a mountain bike shop for about 45 minutes today. There are some big tooth count sprockets available today but they're thin 12 speeds designed to squeeze the most power out of a cyclist. SRAM is apparently making a 50 T, but it's probably paper thin. The best cassette I've found is a beefier 8 speed 13-40T by Interloc Racing Design. It's $150.

I have a complete Qulbix bike arriving on Monday. I plan to install one of the new single stage reduction Big Blocks on it and use it as a test mule for gearing development.
 
I bought my own Qulbix 76R to play with. The 3000 watt, 20 lb hub motor that the bike came with is going away in favor of a 5000 watt swingarm mounted Big Block with a sinusoidal controller. The controller will run to 97 volts but I'm going to stay with the 20s (84V hot off charger) for now. I was pleased to see that in addition to the 219 kart chain driveline being perfectly straight, I also worked the pedal side out so that there is a very straight 3:1 single speed gear. I'll be able to pedal into the low 20 mph range, which is over the e-bike speed limit here. Top speed on the motor should be around 50 mph.

IMG_6410.jpg


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When I first designed this drive all I had to work with was a customer's Q76 frame and swingarm. I hate trying to design a drive without all of the components involved but many times that's what I get dealt. Turns out that this swingarm drive fits the bike perfectly. I have to run a long spindle bottom bracket and the brake caliper needs a new mounting bracket but that's it.

The hub motor that came with the bike actually wasn't bad. It's quiet of course and with a 72V system it had some decent top end. Super soggy off of the line and no help at all lifting the bike's front end at any speed. I'm excited to get twice the wattage with 8:1 reduction to the rear wheel.
 
I look forward to some test videos, hopefully someone will push some decent watts into this to give it a comparison to what the frame was made for hub motors.

No need to try to reach what they do at 18kw easily, even 5kw would be plenty to give it some cred. A fun lighter well sprung bike neat frame has its place.

Can't wait to see and hear the bike riding without a freewheel to the motor too.
 
Hell yeah! And if someone wants even more power just gear down to like 25-30mph top speed 5kw. Should be bulletproof John, and a front hub would be awesome to add in at that point for topend and 2wd?

LR, I hope you work out room for a full fw or cassette for pedal power. Does a freewheel body fit, and there's just issue with the chain? I found if I kept both drives on the right it gave more room. I did have to use a pulley on the tense side of pedal chain, and did have to dish the wheel and offset dropouts, but that's on an old XC klein FS w/ 135mm d/o originally.

I'm still planning on finishing my foe-raptor mid, and if keeping pedals I want full ratio for them. But will need a stronger hub, pref with sealed like you made.

As yours sits, maybe you could widen pedal tread a bit more to give room, or add a pulley for bike chain?

Looks awesome, have fun!
 
I rode this bike around quite a bit with the 3000 watt hubbie on it. The bike came with 5 level PAS. I found that I left the rear derailleur in 8th gear and worked the PAS power button instead. I'm going to put the PAS back on, with an even better Grin Tech potentiometer to adjust the PAS power with. The way that the bike is geared I can pedal to just beyond the legal e-bike speed limit. It's a convenient way of knowing whether I'm riding at in front of cop speeds or when nobody is watching speeds. The police do like to see us pedaling away.

The left side of the motor is as far to the left as possible. I even flipped the driver sprocket over to gain another 1/2". The disc rotor clears the frame by a gnat's booty and the driven sprocket just clears the brake caliper. I am going to make a small block version of this drive that will weigh 4 lbs less, be 1" narrower and will still put out 3000 watts. That drive will have clearance for a full cassette on the right. It will be the drive for people who want to do some pedaling. Running that drive will require making a new hub with two disc brake flanges on the left and a free hub ratchet threaded in on the right.

I've sourced mid drive motors that go up to 35kW and will fit on this frame. They still weigh far less than a 3kW hub motor. 2WD is cool but won't give you the best performance under normal traction circumstances. Accelerate hard enough and the front wheel is off of the ground. 2WD is best for going slow on snotty, slick terrain. I'd have a 2WD fat bike for getting off of my hill when it snows.
 
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