Trying to put back wheel on bike - makes strange sound

[Cyclomania]

Hi

So I am trying to put a backmotor-wheel on a bike-frame that I have. 28 wheels. I have a sw900 display available and the controller I have has the metrics as in the screenshot here.

The battery is a 36 volt battery from an old bike I had. I am now trying to see if they are all going to work with each other.

Now I put the gas throttle on it and try to make the wheel spin. See video:

IMG_3743 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

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Any idea why it only makes this sound? What should I do to make it work?


Thanks

 

[amberwolf]

It's a phrase older than I am, dunno when I first heard it, but I didn't even know what they looked like then.

His windings look a bit cooked too, do they not?
Regardless, a new motor would be in order.

The windings look normal, but without a replacement axle, the motor is less than useful. I can think of a few interesting ways to use one broken like this, or to "fix" it for a non-normal-bicycle usage, but not applicable to regular bikes, and not really easy to do.

Hmm so this is probably unsaveable? Or if not, a lot of work that could be spent elsewhere. I think I am going to seal this motor and go on to do something else bicycle-related. Maybe if I have a lot of time in the future I will come back to this thread to try to to actually weld the whole thing like Amberwolf talks about. But that is only if I get the time over.

Maybe some of the components in this motor could be used in another motor that goes bad in the future? So dumb thing to throw it away maybe?

If you have the space to store it, I'd stick it in a box labelled for what it is and how it's broken, and save it for a rainy day project or parts use, etc. You may get lucky and find a compatible motor that's got say, busted gears or fried windings, and then they can be parts for each other.

 

[Cyclomania]

It's a phrase older than I am, dunno when I first heard it, but I didn't even know what they looked like then.


The windings look normal, but without a replacement axle, the motor is less than useful. I can think of a few interesting ways to use one broken like this, or to "fix" it for a non-normal-bicycle usage, but not applicable to regular bikes, and not really easy to do.



If you have the space to store it, I'd stick it in a box labelled for what it is and how it's broken, and save it for a rainy day project or parts use, etc. You may get lucky and find a compatible motor that's got say, busted gears or fried windings, and then they can be parts for each other.

It does not look very similar to any other motor I have opened. Are ebike motors very specific or something? What are the interesting things you would have done with it?

I cannot weld it because I don't know how to weld yet. So maybe best to keep in the drawer yeah.

 

[Cyclomania]

So I gave up on that motor-wheel above, which I am going to fix if possible, but for another bike in the future maybe. It is in another thread here on Endless sphere.
But now I have another headache..

I have tried another motor-wheel, which I think is fine and everything. 250watt. But.. it works when I spin this new wheel with the throttle.
Two first vids are of me not on the bike(and then the sound from the motor is good). But when I step on the bike and throttle or try to pedal assist. It all starts again. With the noise.

The bike also works with pedal assist, with me not on the bike.
But.. When I step onto the bike it cuts out again and makes strange sounds.

Could anyone tell me what is wrong with this bike? I am starting to think I should get another controller or something or what am I doing wrong?.. Maybe this is the bike from hell that are trying to make ruin my life .

IMG_3931 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

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The throttle also works with me off the bike:

IMG_3933 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

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Here the strange sound arises:

IMG_3932 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

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[Cyclomania]

Hmm seems to work with another controller. Weird. The two controllers are very similar in their features. Anyone have an idea on why oe of the controllers might work so much better?

The one who is giving ALL motor wheels I have used on this bike that weird noise is this first image and link controller:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2012504563.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.57.6e181802zPjQ8g

From this one I got all of those issues.

 

[Cyclomania]

But this other one, that now seems to work with the bike, is this controller below, along with another gas throttle. Any idea why this worked and why the first one made the motors give of that weird sound? This one gives of good sounds from the motor and makes it spin normally. Weird huh?

It is perplexing to me because they both have similar max current and so on.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002935808402.html?pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21US%20%2414.84%21US%20%2411.13%21%21%21%21%21%402103011016967536388092751ef34b%2112000022890583786%21im%21%21

 

[amberwolf]

It does not look very similar to any other motor I have opened. Are ebike motors very specific or something?

Most are very very similar to each other, for the DD hubs, and for the geared hubs, in each size class.

Some companies actually design their own motors, so theirs will be the first of a design type...but often they get cloned and the clones get cloned, etc., being made more cheaply each iteration, usually. (same thing with controllers and everything else, not just with ebike stuff).

What are the interesting things you would have done with it?

It could be used without it's gearing and housing to drive something directly at high RPM (fan blades, even a lightweight mower, etc), bolted directly to the rotor bell.

Or to chain or belt-drive something that needs high rpm via that rotor bell.

Could be used as-is for an interesting cieling fan. Would need the axle replaced with a hollow tube to pass the wiring up thru the other side, and the sun gear either cored and transplanted to that, or machined into the tube's surface.

Bench grinder...stick a belt between teh spoke flanges to drive a grinding wheel. Would need to add a support on the broken side that holds that side aligned and tensioned, hollow tube for the wiring to go thru.

Even a middrive on a bike using one of the above methods....


Of course, you could use a working hubmotor for these, too...but without the axle support on both sides you can't use this one for a bicycle wheel. (the axle of just one side can't take the load, though there are designs that can).

 

[Cyclomania]

Even a middrive on a bike using one of the above methods....

Hmm I like this idea esepcially. Any threads here on how to convert it into a mid drive? That would be nice when the axle is gone. But how do do this with the pedals and all?

 

[99t4]

Here you go:

Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Hi folks, The idea is to use the axle of a geared hubmotor as output shaft. No one ever did post anything about this in the past ( I searched a lot), that's why I wanna show how it might work. I use a 24V 250W front driving MBG Goldenmotor for this mod (reviewed the 36V rear version here...

endless-sphere.com

You could search and find many more...

 

[Cyclomania]

Here you go:

Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Hi folks, The idea is to use the axle of a geared hubmotor as output shaft. No one ever did post anything about this in the past ( I searched a lot), that's why I wanna show how it might work. I use a 24V 250W front driving MBG Goldenmotor for this mod (reviewed the 36V rear version here...

endless-sphere.com

You could search and find many more...

Cool very cool. Still don't understand how they do with the pedals.

Maybe ths is not possible for me since I have a broken axle? Looks like the dude in that thread uses the axle for support. I would then have to get another axle or somthing?

 

[Cyclomania]

It is an issue of the controller. Because I have now tried two of them. None of them work. Don't know if it because I solder them badly or something? Had to put on a special throttle and xt60 to make it work with the rest of the bike. Looks like this:

 

[glennb]

So I gave up on that motor-wheel above, which I am going to fix if possible, but for another bike in the future maybe.

Good idea

I have tried another motor-wheel, which I think is fine and everything.

Yeah, the motor seems fine

Could anyone tell me what is wrong with this bike?

First thing with pairing motors and controllers is always to ensure that the phase and motor hall wires are correctly matched. The colours need to combined for correct functionality. Read about it. It’s not difficult to do, just annoying.

Don’t worry, you don’t have the bike from hell, and do not need another controller. They’ll work together.

 

[Cyclomania]

Good idea



Yeah, the motor seems fine



First thing with pairing motors and controllers is always to ensure that the phase and motor hall wires are correctly matched. The colours need to combined for correct functionality. Read about it. It’s not difficult to do, just annoying.

Don’t worry, you don’t have the bike from hell, and do not need another controller. They’ll work together.

What is really strange is that this first controller(I have now tried two of the exact same version of this one) gives of that strange sound.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2012504563.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.57.6e181802zPjQ8g

I am then talking about the one above.

Now the other on(that does not have Pedal assist but only throttle) works just fine. I have no idea why. I have soldered the two exactly the same way. Where I have soldered the ignition wire along with the red motor wire. The one that works but only have throttle is this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002935808402.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.107.499f180237K1aS

Any idea why the first version gives of that strange sound. While the other does not?

 

[glennb]

Sorry, I’m a little confused.

Please correct these statements for me if they are wrong.

1. You want to use PAS.

2. You have two identical “greentime” controllers that support PAS.

3. These greentime controllers cause funny motor noises

4. You have a third, different brand, throttle-only controller

5. The throttle-only controller “works just fine”

6. You’d prefer to use a greentime controller, because it supports PAS

7. You want to know why the greentime controller is not working, and what you should try to make it work

8. You tried the greentime “self-learning” procedure (???)

 

[Cyclomania]

Sorry, I’m a little confused.

Please correct these statements for me if they are wrong.

1. You want to use PAS.

2. You have two identical “greentime” controllers that support PAS.

3. These greentime controllers cause funny motor noises

4. You have a third, different brand, throttle-only controller

5. The throttle-only controller “works just fine”

6. You’d prefer to use a greentime controller, because it supports PAS

7. You want to know why the greentime controller is not working, and what you should try to make it work

8. You tried the greentime “self-learning” procedure (???)

Yup.

Actually you got it precisely right

 

[glennb]

Great.

It seems like you have synchronisation problems, meaning that the greentimes’ self-learning feature has probably let you down.

You could try to repeat the self-learning.

If that does not solve the problem, you can attempt to manually configure the hall and phase wires.

 

[Cyclomania]

Great.

It seems like you have synchronisation problems, meaning that the greentimes’ self-learning feature has probably let you down.

You could try to repeat the self-learning.

If that does not solve the problem, you can attempt to manually configure the hall and phase wires.

Hmm how is that done? Have ordered a new controller that will arrive in a couple of weeks. But maybe I could try the manual configure thing. Is this hard or how do you go about doing this?

 

[glennb]

Another one!

You’re supposed to blow them up then pull them apart to see what caused the smoke, not stack them on the shelf as ornaments.

Anyway, no harm, you’ll have plenty to scavenge spare parts from if you decide to start treating them badly and burning them up.

It’s not hard. You just have to set aside the sensible notion that the wire associations between motor and controller are colour matched, and methodically try all the different combinations. The red and black will be ok, it’s the permutations of yellow blue green that you need to work through. There’s no shortage of information about the methodology, you’ll have no trouble figuring it out.

 

[Cyclomania]

Another one!

Haha yes

 

[Cyclomania]

Another one!

You’re supposed to blow them up then pull them apart to see what caused the smoke, not stack them on the shelf as ornaments.

Anyway, no harm, you’ll have plenty to scavenge spare parts from if you decide to start treating them badly and burning them up.

It’s not hard. You just have to set aside the sensible notion that the wire associations between motor and controller are colour matched, and methodically try all the different combinations. The red and black will be ok, it’s the permutations of yellow blue green that you need to work through. There’s no shortage of information about the methodology, you’ll have no trouble figuring it out.

Maybe I will have to check it out yeah

 

[Cyclomania]

Anyway I am now driving it only with the gas throttle and that seems to work fine.

But it gives off a pretty big sound during acceleration. Not like the other controller did, with bad noise. But sounds quite a lot when accelerating. Any idea if this is normal. Check it out

IMG_3973 - VEED - Online Video Editor - Video Editing Made Simple

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[Cyclomania]

Is this sound normal during acceleration? Maybe it is the frame that is shaking?

 

[glennb]

They’re fair questions.

The odds are slim of getting confirmation from someone with an identical motor in guaranteed perfect order. Or finding a useful audio recording for reference.

Either way, unless you’re intending to file a warrantee claim it makes no difference what the motor is supposed to sound like, because all you can do is take all the practical steps to eliminate sources of “abnormal”, and whatever it sounds like after that is what you’re stuck with.

You’ll want to dig out some threads here that cover geared hub motor servicing. (Skip the ones that chronicle people’s dilemmas). I’ll just give some pointers that might save you a little time.

You’re looking at everything that moves or meshes. Anything that’s wobbly, worn, binding, chewed up, or lacking lubrication, will generate noise.

In most cases you can feel roughness in parts while manually rotating them. To discover rough bearings you might need to press firmly on the inner race while turning it.

Grease can disguise damage on gear teeth, but you’re unlikely to miss it because there’s normally shreds and dust embedded in the vicinity. And if you discover spur gears rather than helical, the motor will be relatively noisy..

After the above, your only practical option to further reduce noise is via sine or FOC controllers. Some motors run noticeably louder on trapezoidal controllers.

P.s. you’ll get better forum support for Kunteng controllers. Might be worth considering one for your next purchase.

 

[amberwolf]

The axle is heavily modified, including cutting it and adding supports for it's "new" ends, so you could either get a new axle or modify / repair the one you already have for the purpose. Since it wouldn't be holding up the whole bike *and* handling motor torque, the repair type wouldn't be quite as critical for this application as it would to keep using it as a hubmotor in a wheel.