Ultra-Power Lipo Cells Now in Stock USA!

[Kirk]

I think that the people at this site http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=33334 would be happy to get a market share of the thousands of battery packs purchased by members of this forum from Turnigy and Zippy. I'm fairly sure your CRM is not doing them any favors here. As always YMMV.

 

[EVDragRacer]

Jozzer,

It was very nice and enlightening speaking with you by phone. I apologize for any remarks and misinformation I may have posted.

In regards to the Haiyin 50C Ultra-Performance cells I am selling, the cycle life I am supporting was provided by the factory. The cell's amps I had confirmed by testing here in the USA, I am not sure of the failure rate of these new cells, but of the 3000+ I have sold not one complaint. I have tested with my own equipment over 600 cells with not one failure.

Ron

 

[Hillhater]

Awww ! Ron... have you been away on a charm course ??...
.... or getting some professional advice on Customer Relations techniques ?
your recent posts almost ooze love and affection :lol: :lol:

( I wonder how long that will last ?)

 

[Hillhater]

......I've got 2 samples of this cell to test and evaluate, hopefully I will be able to get started tomorrow (depending on my load at work).

Luke, any progress on testing these yet ?
.. i believe Ron is planning to run these beyond their max rating now.

 

[parabellum]

......I've got 2 samples of this cell to test and evaluate, hopefully I will be able to get started tomorrow (depending on my load at work).

Luke, any progress on testing these yet ?
.. i believe Ron is planning to run these beyond their max rating now.

Please post a link here if it gets its own tread.

 

[EVDragRacer]

I had a very disturbing exchange of emails today with my buddy Jozzer. I will admit after him calling me a twitt or some stupid remark Brits make, I was a little upset. Anyways, I will update our website with additional info on cycle life so Steve keeps his panties on. The cycle life can be as high as 500 cycles at lower C Ratings, but once you draw the higher amperage the cycle life will be lower than 500. Please review our website for additional testing.

 

[Hillhater]

Is that 500 cycles at 30C then, or some lower discharge rate ?

 

[Spacey]

If it was a Brit that called you a "Twit" or something it's most probable that he said "Twat". Twit is hardly an insult and merely an endearing term for doing something without thinking.

I am regularly called both

 

[Hillhater]

Is that 500 cycles at 30C then, or some lower discharge rate ?

OK, so now the site has been updated to show that " >500 cycles" is at 0.5C ( 3 amp) charge and discharge rates .. which is probably a standard test.
but what is the cycle life likely to be at 50 C discharge and "normal" (20amp ?) charge rates .

 

[flathill]

Ron has the spec sheet that states the cycle life at 30C but it is a secret. Ron will only publish the cycle life at 0.5C which is useless (also note the % DOD is missing on the website). Giving him the benefit of the doubt maybe he wants to provide cycle life at 50C with only 80% DOD which probably represents real world use more than 100% DOD. Lipo has great energy density but you can't really pull it all out without rapidly aging the cell.

Lithium-titanate cells have much promise as you can pull all the advertised energy, so the "real world" energy density is greater than it first appears only relying on spec sheets. Efficiency vs discharge rate also has to be considered.

 

[kek_63]

I've got 2 samples of this cell to test and evaluate, hopefully I will be able to get started tomorrow (depending on my load at work).

Any results yet? Everyone has been pretty quiet about these cells for a while.

 

[Hillhater]

:lol: :lol:

I notice over on the " Haiyin Battery Build Thread" Ron has continued his battery "development" by designing a cell connection system that will add 70kg of copper to his pack !
..and that is just the parallel connects ! , without even thinking of the 90+ series connects that will be needed

 

[AussieJester]

:lol: :lol:

I notice over on the " Haiyin Battery Build Thread" Ron has continued his battery "development" by designing a cell connection system that will add 70kg of copper to his pack !
..and that is just the parallel connects ! , without even thinking of the 90+ series connects that will be needed

Superb!! Good to hear ol RoN is on the job and forever ::cough:: "improving"
his battery pack designs.. Keep up the good work there RoN, no need to be worrying about pesky
weight saving, when it comes to racing more weight the better right!?

KiM

 

[EVDragRacer]

:lol: :lol:

I notice over on the " Haiyin Battery Build Thread" Ron has continued his battery "development" by designing a cell connection system that will add 70kg of copper to his pack !
..and that is just the parallel connects ! , without even thinking of the 90+ series connects that will be needed

Superb!! Good to hear ol RoN is on the job and forever ::cough:: "improving"
his battery pack designs.. Keep up the good work there RoN, no need to be worrying about pesky
weight saving, when it comes to racing more weight the better right!?

KiM

Yes, the silver coated copper bus bars added weight, but not 70kg, a little less. The tabs will never get warm with such a "heavy duty" connection method. The bus bars were cut, punched and coated by Storm Copper in Tenn, nice job. The car will still weigh under 2300LBS! :lol:

 

[Hillhater]

Several people were asking for test data on the Hayin cells.
Some independent test data has been posted over on the DIY EV car forums.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/warp-factor-iii-now-alive-74864p17.html

It would appear that Ron is having to limit the current draw on the cells to 250-300 max in order to control the voltage sag.

 

[EVDragRacer]

Several people were asking for test data on the Hayin cells.
Some independent test data has been posted over on the DIY EV car forums.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/warp-factor-iii-now-alive-74864p17.html

It would appear that Ron is having to limit the current draw on the cells to 250-300 max in order to control the voltage sag.

Yes, you are correct. We can pull 300amps per cell safely with a 3.3v sag. So, we know now that a 3000amps battery pack will deliver 3.3 volts per cell. Our new design for 2013 is two smaller pack for each Shiva, most likely 10P 65S each pack. :lol:

 

[neptronix]

Let's keep in mind that these are similar to what we see in middle-upper RC Lipo cells.
li-co is not known to have long cycle life. RC aircraft lico is not known to have long cycle life either.
Yes, manufacturers do awful things like rate their 20C battery cycle life at 1C ( like you're really going to use it at that ), so you often have to dock their figures some for higher discharge situations.

All cells i have ever seen tested ( and tested myself ) perform poorly at their continuous rated current. That's just how it is. Either overspec the C of the cells you're using, or run more amp hours in parallel to get the desired output.

So if you take a 60C continuous cell, you'd not want to run it at more than 30C continuously.
If you take a 20C cell, you don't want to run it at more than 10C continuously.

And for high power you are of course going to require stupid amounts of copper, or you run an insanely high voltage / low amperage ( any controller out there capable of handling 1000v? :lol: ). Give the poor guy a break!

 

[Hillhater]

Let's keep in mind that these are similar to what we see in middle-upper RC Lipo cells.

So if you take a 60C continuous cell, you'd not want to run it at more than 30C continuously.
If you take a 20C cell, you don't want to run it at more than 10C continuously.

You might be content to accept this if these were just another RC cell sold cheap by a on line Asian vendor.
Keep in mind also that these are very expensive cells ( see OP) and have been touted as the best high performance cell for racing, ( high discharge , thick tabs, etc),.... and these are being sold by a USA vendor. !
.... so its disappointing to see the real data from independent tests show they sag below 3V when discharging at their 50C (300A) continuous rating .

 

[neptronix]

I just looked at that graph. Yes, that is rather bad.
Some Turnigy 20C cells might respond similarly at a 20C load ( IE, they will function as a battery, produce wicked heat, but not explode in a fireball ).

To be fair, that's probably how the RC world rates their batteries.

But i see your point how it is rather dishonest for someone in the USA selling these to go off the same metrics.

 

[Hillhater]

Ron could have saved himself a lot of time, money, and effort, if he had done these tests back in May 2011, when he was designing his packs and advertising their high output capacity.
It must be irritating ( putting it mildly) for those ES members who had spoon fed him the information that enabled him to assemble a Turnigy based pack that got him through the previous season and to the 10.08 ET,..only to see him go his own way with these cells that are so saggy !

 

[neptronix]

Allright guys, sorry for jumping in this thread and being behind and missing info , just saw this:

Derek, says I can run the cells for 10 seconds at 250amps (2500amp 10P) with a sag of 3.3volts per cell

250 / 6AH = ~41.66C.

Why are these being advertised as having a 65C burst rate if they can only handle ~41.66C for 10 seconds? Burst rate is defined as what, 2-5 seconds then?

The continuous would be lower then, like 30C..
Or maybe 20C..

Uh yeah, hope you didn't buy too many of these & plan on selling too many.

 

[neptronix]

Ron could have saved himself a lot of time, money, and effort, if he had done these tests back in May 2011, when he was designing his packs and advertising their high output capacity.
It must be irritating ( putting it mildly) for those ES members who had spoon fed him the information that enabled him to assemble a Turnigy based pack that got him through the previous season and to the 10.08 ET,..only to see him go his own way with these cells that are so saggy !

I think me, maybe you, and some others did mention this long ago.
I don't mean to bag on the guy too much but battery irrationality seems to be a defining characteristic of EV people .. this thread doesn't compare to the drkangel ultrafire 3400/4000mah cell debacle though

Coulda just used double or triple the amp hours worth of cheapo turnigy cells and saved some cash. That would have been a lot easier.

 

[Hillhater]

Coulda just used double or triple the amp hours worth of cheapo turnigy cells and saved some cash. That would have been a lot easier.

:lol: :lol: .. Tell me about it !
I am pretty sure the Nanotech would perform as well ( probably better ?) than these, but there doesnt seem to be any detailed data of performance at this level of discharge ( 50 -100C)...other than the initial work Luke did on the original Nanotech's.. ( didnt he push 200C from them ?)

 

[Jozzer]

Luke reckons the tabs are stronger on the Haiyin cells, but I guess it then depends how well you construct the pack. I've never tried a big pack of Nano's, but I would certainly expect much less sag than Ron is experiencing..
But yeah, I had a dingdong with Ron precicely because he was advertising these (as well as bashing any potential competition) without having actually doing any real testing..(of this, or any other cell).

 

[EVDragRacer]

Luke reckons the tabs are stronger on the Haiyin cells, but I guess it then depends how well you construct the pack. I've never tried a big pack of Nano's, but I would certainly expect much less sag than Ron is experiencing..
But yeah, I had a dingdong with Ron precicely because he was advertising these (as well as bashing any potential competition) without having actually doing any real testing..(of this, or any other cell).

Yes, when building a large pack 3000amps+ you need large tabs, this has been confirmed by Luke, Thomas Cook (Lithium Start), etc...true engineers in their field. You on the other hand tell people they can build the largest pack ever just by connecting the balance leads on series packs, well my long lost friend Jozzer, you are definitely wrong. Your advertisements that the Hybrid Formula Series, using packs in series will gain you some serious lawsuits when the wires/ tabs melt and the packs go up in flames. Just ask "Black Current" the electric VW record holder, he burnt his car to the ground with series packs!