United States Ends ICE

[Hillhater]

^^ hmm, so they use 1500kW to produce 250cum (20kg) of H2 per hour..
..which they plan to use for “heavy equipment” ? .... Presumably with fuel cell.
So that might just realise approx 600 kw of electrical power for that “heavy” equipment ?
Thats about enough for just one Nikola truck ! (750 kW )

 

[boars]

...that IF someone can develop a gas turbine to run at all on H2 ( not done to date !)

First Hydrogen Fueled Aircraft Flight Martin B-57 Canberra (1955)

On 13 February 1957, the first of three successful flights was made and the fuel system worked well. The transition to hydrogen was made in two steps. The hydrogen lines were first purged, then the engine was operated on JP-4 and gaseous hydrogen simultaneously. After two minutes of operations on the mixture, Algranti switched to hydrogen alone. The transition was relatively smooth and there was no appreciable change in engine speed or tailpipe temperature. The engine ran for about 20 minutes on hydrogen. The pilots found that the engine responded well to throttle changes when using hydrogen. When the supply was almost exhausted, the speed began to drop. As this became apparent, Algranti switched back to JP-4 and the engine accelerated smoothly to its operating speed. The engine burning hydrogen had produced a dense and persistent condensation trail, while the other engine operating on JP-4 left no trail.

They fuelled a test jet over 60 years ago with hydrogen, heck they could even switch between JP-4 (Kero) and h2 on the fly to do their testing.

One of the reasons it was not pursued further was a giant condensation trail behind a high altitude spy plane was not exactly ideal :lol:
More info on the text desc of the video if you're curious.

I'm sure there's some newer turbines and such that are more than capable of burning whatever you want to throw down them.

I'm really not convinced by h2 myself but I'd love it to be a success if it is possible.

Toyota have seemingly put all their chips in on hydrogen (at least for now) and I'm sure they've pulled a calculator out at least twice.
They've been pumping out hybrids for ages and still haven't got a full electric on the market which is interesting.

 

[Hillhater]

.
I'm sure there's some newer turbines and such that are more than capable of burning whatever you want to throw down them.

You might think so, and the Japanese are desperate to make one work ( yes, they seem to have pitched their energy future on H2 ?)
Maybe they should drag out those old B57 engines ?
And i am certain there were bigger issues than just a vapour trail !
But the major utility turbine makers are finding it not so easy to make one run reliably on H2

. But despite millions of operating hours spent to improve hydrogen combustion by the petrochemical industry, hydrogen power currently suffers major drawbacks. Welch noted that at least 60% of hydrogen gas turbines under development by an assortment of manufacturers use DLN combustor technology, which is “a challenge because of the way gas turbines have evolved over the years.” Power conversion also needs additional equipment and water.
As significantly, today, running electrolysis to produce 50 MW for one hour at a CCGT running at 50% efficiency could require 175 MW of renewable power and 3,400 kilograms (more than 14,000 gallons) of hydrogen, he said. “So, the affordability part of the equation could be an issue,” which is why hydrogen power could prove more economical as short-term (three or four hours a day) renewable support in places such as Europe, he added.

.. Successful 30% hydrogen combustion represents a major step toward a hydrogen society
Easy-to-burn hydrogen and the battle with “flashback

https://power.mhi.com/special/hydrogen/article_1

 

[Balmorhea]

Hydrogen makes sense for motor vehicles the same way gasoline makes sense for them. They're both inefficient, hazardous, and laden with huge externalities that make you question the moral sense of anyone who thinks they’re okay— but they both work, in the most limited sense of the word.

 

[ZeroEm]

by Hillhater » Sep 30 2020 11:05pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Sep 30 2020 9:06pm
Anyone know of any cheap fuelcells.

Or efficient ?
..or cheap/efficient Electrolisers for producing H2 ?
..or cheap (unsubsidised ) RE electricity to feed the H2 industry ?
..or cheap/ efficient methods of storage and transport ?

Must admit have not looked for any in years. They are costly for the watts they produce even if they are efficient.
In Texas we (not all, mostly cities) have Natural Gas piped to our homes. Thought about Natural gas powered generators or Fuel Cells. Fuel Cells is a great idea but does not exist on a cost level. Does some one know something I don't know, the great secret.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The company "Plug Power" started off developing fuel cells for home use. I think they may have eventually gone in a different direction, but you may want to check them out just in case.

 

[ZeroEm]

WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency raised concerns about California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s plan to ban sales of new gasoline and diesel-powered passenger cars in the state by 2035, arguing that the mandate is impractical and possibly illegal.marketwatch

 

[Dauntless]

WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency raised concerns about California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s plan to ban sales of new gasoline and diesel-powered passenger cars in the state by 2035, arguing that the mandate is impractical and possibly illegal.marketwatch

Right. Gavin Grewsome. Impractical, illegal, nephew of Nancy. I forget, he's also related to Gerry Brown and some rich family like the Getty's.

To have all electric fleets we need things like the smart grid upgrade, if only to remove vulnerable old equipment, as well as enough stable power. But Grewsome doesn't care about that, he cares about self importance.

 

[ZeroEm]

I have an all Electric fleet, don't know any laws that are being broken.

 

[Dauntless]

It would be the Governor breaking the law, referred to as 'Under Color of Authority.' Telling himself he can virtue signal as he pleases because HE is the Governor.

 

[nicobie]

Really... Who does he think he is anyway? trump?

 

[Dauntless]

Really... Who does he think he is anyway? trump?

No, he thinks he can do all kinds of things Trump would never do.
Because it's always alright with those like you.

 

[ZeroEm]

Texas is considering whether to impose additional registration fees on electric and hybrid vehicles, following nearly half the states that already impose higher fees on battery powered vehicles to compensate for lost gasoline taxes used to maintain roads and highways.

The bills in Texas are unlikely to get through the legislative session, which ends Monday, but the issue is almost certain to resurface as Texas and other states wrestle with depleted highway funds as cars become more fuel efficient and federal gas taxes remain unchanged from their levels 26 years ago. With electric vehicles representing 2 percent of U.S. vehicle sales last year, lawmakers look to revamp the way the nation pays for its transportation network.

States, recognizing that they are losing revenue from gasoline sales, are weighing how to generate funds to fix potholes, repave roadways and build new roads and bridges to support population growth. Lately, focus has shifted from unpopular measures such as higher gas taxes and more toll roads toward a new source of funds: electric vehicle owners who use the roads but don’t pay for the privilege at the pump.

Let's raise the gasoline tax to promote the move to EV's. Later report miles driven and pay a road tax on that.

 

[Balmorhea]

Let's raise the gasoline tax to promote the move to EV's. Later report miles driven and pay a road tax on that.

Road tax should be an exponential function of vehicle mass (like the effect on pavement wear) and speed (like the threat to other road users), so it correctly places the burden where it belongs.

 

[ZeroEm]

Should not be to hard when the tags are renewed and mileage reported. If I get a tag for an 18 wheeler and driven a 100,000 miles or tags for my little leaf with 2,000 more miles on it.

 

[Hillhater]

Something tells me that google could already list every vehicle’s mileage, speed, travel time and probably dates, start/finish destinations ec etc . ??

 

[ZeroEm]

Yes, they are trying to link up all cars for updates, so guess they can track where you are and down load the mileage.

 

[Balmorhea]

Something tells me that google could already list every vehicle’s mileage, speed, travel time and probably dates, start/finish destinations ec etc . ??

Certainly connected cars, like those that are moving towards self-driving, will be able to log and upload all movement data if the manufacturer or data services provider wants to do that. I think it would be great if this data were correlated with phone data and used to apprehend hit and run drivers, habitual speeders, etc.

Google can’t distinguish drivers from passengers using only phone location data. In most cases, they probably don’t have any means to ID the specific vehicle being used. But they can tell a lot of things.

 

[ZeroEm]

My car is not connected anymore, needs an update but everything is there for Nissan to chat with it. They want a fee but i'm sure it will be free soon. All car's ICE or EV will be on the network soon.

 

[neptronix]

California ends ICE by 2035

Will they do it? Can they go all electric or just 90%.

They tried to do this back in the 90's. The technology to completely replace ICE vehicles did not exist then. We're still not exactly there just yet. But close..

You can make a mandate all day, but there needs to be a means to meet the mandate if you want it to be reality.

 

[Hillhater]

Google can’t distinguish drivers from passengers using only phone location data. In most cases, they probably don’t have any means to ID the specific vehicle being used. But they can tell a lot of things.

Mobile/Cell phones are one source of data, but there are many others.
Traffic cameras, car GPS systems, and increasingly more civil surveilance cameras can/could all be used and linked if someone wanted to.
Lots of computing power required maybe...but i dont think that would be an issue for the likes of Google or an authority prepared to waste billions on other uneccessary projects

 

[Balmorhea]

Google can’t distinguish drivers from passengers using only phone location data. In most cases, they probably don’t have any means to ID the specific vehicle being used. But they can tell a lot of things.

Mobile/Cell phones are one source of data, but there are many others.
Traffic cameras, car GPS systems, and increasingly more civil surveilance cameras can/could all be used and linked if someone wanted to.

None of the cars I have used featured GPS. More and more of them do, I guess.

As for the rest of that, sure. It's technically feasible. But in a country that won't bother to do contact tracing during the MAGA plague, it doesn't seem very likely.

 

[Hillhater]

The point is still..... it is technically possible if someone decided to do it....
..and it would not take much for it to be compulsory for every vehicle to carry an electronic “tracker” in the same way they have to carry a Licence plate.. (registration) ..
Currently, many Commercial vehicles already have to do this.
Personally, i would prefer to “pay per mile” than by some random average fixed taxation.

 

[ZeroEm]

by Hillhater » Oct 12 2020 6:25pm

Balmorhea wrote: ↑Oct 12 2020 2:25pm
Google can’t distinguish drivers from passengers using only phone location data. In most cases, they probably don’t have any means to ID the specific vehicle being used. But they can tell a lot of things.

Mobile/Cell phones are one source of data, but there are many others.
Traffic cameras, car GPS systems, and increasingly more civil surveilance cameras can/could all be used and linked if someone wanted to.
Lots of computing power required maybe...but i dont think that would be an issue for the likes of Google or an authority prepared to waste billions on other uneccessary projects

Uneccessary projects..... you not talking about Trumps border wall again. A waste of billions for two miles.

 

[markz]

Road sensors are being used to track you, here they track your cell phone to calculate how long it takes on the main highway to get from point A to point B takes X minutes. Especially useful in the rush hours, they claim its anonymized data, just like they claim the same with covid app, just like Google claims.

None of the cars I have used featured GPS. More and more of them do, I guess.

As for the rest of that, sure. It's technically feasible. But in a country that won't bother to do contact tracing during the MAGA plague, it doesn't seem very likely.