voilamart/otherbrands wheel rim

[amberwolf]

So, what kind of hypothetical modification(s) can you propose to the events of the story of my wheel failure if it had better spokes (either 13s with washers at both sides with the same nameless rim or 13s with washers only on the hub side)? i.e. what could've happened.

Assuming the scenario I outlined is what actually happened to your wheel:

Then if the rim had *always* been laced with whatever the appropriate spokes were for it, vs ones that required too high a tension and damaged the rim, then the wheel would just keep working like it's supposed to.

If you ever hit something hard enough / etc to damage the rim itself such that it deforms and loosens spokes, then it would still fail, because the spokes are then loosened...but if you stopped right then and retensioned the spokes, assuming the spokes weren't damaged at the same time as the rim, and could accept the out-of-roundness and lateral displacement of the rim you get in the bargain (probably forcing you to disconnect the rim brakes from it so they won't rub on it), the wheel would continue to be a wheel and you could keep riding.

I've had that happen on normal bicycle wheels, and even on one of the SB Cruiser's wheels...I am still using that wheel on SBC...


But if I had the scenario where the spokes damaged the rim from too high tension, nothing will fix the wheel without a new rim apprporiate to the usage, and appropriate spokes for that rim.

 

[Vincenzo]

Assuming the scenario I outlined is what actually happened to your wheel:

Then if the rim had *always* been laced with whatever the appropriate spokes were for it, vs ones that required too high a tension and damaged the rim, then the wheel would just keep working like it's supposed to.

If you ever hit something hard enough / etc to damage the rim itself such that it deforms and loosens spokes, then it would still fail, because the spokes are then loosened...but if you stopped right then and retensioned the spokes, assuming the spokes weren't damaged at the same time as the rim, and could accept the out-of-roundness and lateral displacement of the rim you get in the bargain (probably forcing you to disconnect the rim brakes from it so they won't rub on it), the wheel would continue to be a wheel and you could keep riding.

I've had that happen on normal bicycle wheels, and even on one of the SB Cruiser's wheels...I am still using that wheel on SBC...


But if I had the scenario where the spokes damaged the rim from too high tension, nothing will fix the wheel without a new rim apprporiate to the usage, and appropriate spokes for that rim.

So, in my case, where the rim damage had nothing to do with over-tensioned spokes, the rim was abused with so many hard hits and gone pads that it become weak and lost its roundedness a few mms and that made some spokes become repetitively loose and the the rim deformation got worse and loose spokes kept braking until finally the combined effects of the worn out rim side walls and out of order spokes cracked it.

 

[Vincenzo]

update: After they forced me to give my info to this pedo paypal organization because of their monopoly and not accepting anything else for payment, it took them three days to finally inform us that they the might have shipped the rim. goodeee. That's exactly why I started this thread. This pain.

 

[Chalo]

update: After they forced me to give my info to this pedo paypal organization because of their monopoly and not accepting anything else for payment, it took them three days to finally inform us that they the might have shipped the rim. goodeee. That's exactly why I started this thread. This pain.

You would have preferred to pay with strings of seashells? Maybe copper ingots? Hard to have both buyer and seller protection that way.

I hope you didn't buy the same rim again, because it would most likely suffer the same failure again. What did you decide on?

 

[Vincenzo]

You would have preferred to pay with strings of seashells? Maybe copper ingots? Hard to have both buyer and seller protection that way.

I hope you didn't buy the same rim again, because it would most likely suffer the same failure again. What did you decide on?

We, Americans pay with pieces of paper with American presidents on them that we call dollars. They used to be backed by gold until Pres Nixon (I think there are 2 "x"s) did a genuine screw up in 1970.

I guess it's obvious that I bout the tried and true (up to thousands of miles of bad treatment) rim. It's only overpriced and takes forever and supports the evil in more than one way

 

[Vincenzo]

Last update. Record arrival time. 3 days, and shipped from the left coast. I guess the high price was for a very fancy shipping method. I could've saved my last job and avoided becoming homeless if I only knew. Thanks again to everyone who educated me.

 

[99t4]

Which vendor?

 

[Vincenzo]

Which vendor?

The original I bout the kit from. I'm just wondering if this is normal in a new rim:

 

[Chalo]

The original I bout the kit from. I'm just wondering if this is normal in a new rim:

View attachment 337237

It's normal for a very cheap, bottom of the barrel rim. The gap will close when spoke tension is turned up. But if the ends aren't perfectly aligned, the rim will bend into a potato chip curve at that point, and it will take large spoke tension excursions resulting in very tight and very loose spots around the wheel just to get it flat again. The loose spots will tend to loosen further with use, and the tight spots will tend to pucker or crack.

That very coarse machine finish on the braking surface is another hallmark of a super cheap and crappy rim. The deep tool marks can serve as score lines at which the rim sidewall cracks and folds away from the rest of the rim.

 

[Vincenzo]

It's normal for a very cheap, bottom of the barrel rim. The gap will close when spoke tension is turned up. But if the ends aren't perfectly aligned, the rim will bend into a potato chip curve at that point, and it will take large spoke tension excursions resulting in very tight and very loose spots around the wheel just to get it flat again. The loose spots will tend to loosen further with use, and the tight spots will tend to pucker or crack.

That very coarse machine finish on the braking surface is another hallmark of a super cheap and crappy rim. The deep tool marks can serve as score lines at which the rim sidewall cracks and folds away from the rest of the rim.

thank you Chalo. You're gold. Do you think there is 100 tera watt in the sun? . I was almost terrified that I'll have to waste more time dealing with a replacement.
So how are those rims attached under the crack? There is room for some kind of pin (probably). see first pic.
I do not see the alignment that bad, or may be I'm just comforting myself. I was totally convinced here that I should never deal with this bizarre business again, and the next time I'll probably deal with bafang or something, or even find a different method for commute like setting up a tent downtown and pretending to be homeless and only coming home weekends, at least they have affordable buses there.
BTW, after more careful inspection, I found some thick spokes caused damage in the old rim, see below. Ignore the paint scratches, they were caused by my retarded circular spokes tool that has all sizes.
Putting "damaged bicycle wheel rim" in google images is great education.

 

[Chalo]

So how are those rims attached under the crack? There is room for some kind of pin (probably). see first pic.

Yes, they're pinned in those channels on either side. The pins align the rim and provide some shear strength, but the high compressive force from all the spoke tension is what holds the ends tightly together to take bending loads.

 

[Vincenzo]

First test ride. Replacing both wheels in a bicycle (or a rim and a wheel, around $135 in my case) makes it feel like a new ride. It is a world of difference when I put the brand name wheel in the front and the cheap chinese truing stand is very useful and I'll probably look for a budget and small tension meter that works for the very small 12 spokes and for regular long ones. Amazing. From now on, I'll keep two extra wheels for quick replace during work days mishaps in the future, it's worth it. The lesson is, wheels/rims/spokes are frigile but not very pricey to replace the whole thing.

Compare that, to rebuilding an engine or transmission in a car/truck!

 

[nicobie]

After all the advice, you went with 12 gauge spokes? Or did I read it wrong?

 

[Vincenzo]

After all the advice, you went with 12 gauge spokes? Or did I read it wrong?

yes, sir. I did. As I explained above I couldn't afford experimentation with the sole transportation that help me put food on the table. I totally trust everybody's advice and will use it for the second (hopefully folding) built that will add redundancy and flexibility. There complicated math that made me make the decision. Just go over the whole discussion above.