For such a sharp spoke angle, seriously consider the option of a 16"/17" single-wall aluminum moped rim
https://www.electricbike.com/moped-rims-tires-hubmotors/
The wheel-building spoke-lacing thread, post your tips
- Thread starter spinningmagnets
- Start date
For such a sharp spoke angle, seriously consider the option of a 16"/17" single-wall aluminum moped rim
https://www.electricbike.com/moped-rims-tires-hubmotors/
ZeroEm
1 MW
Would not want one on my trike.
Think a road bike would be different, long streatches of road, very little stopping and starting. The loses could not be to bad. Search for a low resistance tire or grind off the nobbies. What would be the smallest spokes 12ga.
Chalo
100 TW
spinningmagnets said:
Radial lacing big hubs into 20" rims has been trouble-free for me for years now, with high torque and very heavy weight-- not a single loosened or broken spoke so far. I use 14 gauge spokes, good and tight. The long lever at the hub, combined with the short spoke length, means negligible windup.
markz
100 TW
Is that on front or rear hub?
Chalo said:
Chalo
100 TW
markz said:
That's front hubs. But the rear should be about the same unless there's a lot of dish.
markz
100 TW
Front hub on a cargo bike with cargo on the front axle?
Cargo weighing about the same as you or more (380lbs)?
The reason I ask is I am still trying to figure out why I couldnt get a decent rear hub without getting flats all the time, following advice, quality components etc etc etc. 375lbs, rear hub, trued, never lasted a month without a flat. Go to front hub, hub is currently in less then ideal shape, wobble, 5 spokes missing yet still ride 500+km for months and months and no flats.
Cargo weighing about the same as you or more (380lbs)?
The reason I ask is I am still trying to figure out why I couldnt get a decent rear hub without getting flats all the time, following advice, quality components etc etc etc. 375lbs, rear hub, trued, never lasted a month without a flat. Go to front hub, hub is currently in less then ideal shape, wobble, 5 spokes missing yet still ride 500+km for months and months and no flats.
Chalo said:
Chalo
100 TW
markz said:
Rear punctures are about 75% of them. The explanation that makes sense to me is that most sharps lie flat on the surface where your tire will usually roll over them harmlessly. But the front tire can flip or toss them, and then the rear tire catches them when they're still unsettled.
More weight on the rear means more likelihood of pinch flats, more ability to tear through the tire with objects that aren't very sharp, etc. Whatever forces are at work, most punctures occur in the rear tire.
The front wheel of my cargo bike carries some of my weight, but I rarely have more than 100 lbs in the front box. I had a spate of about five front punctures in a row during pandemic, when I'd worn out my Maxxis Hookworm but couldn't get any similarly tough or armor belted 20" tires from my suppliers. I eventually ordered a Kenda Kwick Drumlin Cargo and haven't had any punctures since then.
Hello all,
I trying to build my first ebike and got stuck at the spoke lacing part.
Have been trying to lace a relatively large rear hub motor to a 20" rim.
I read that it is important to lace the spokes with some angle toward the rim, especially with rear hubs, due to the torque applied.
It seems that it is not possible to make any crosses (even not a single cross) with this large hub and small rim because there are sharp angles (the spokes are around 85mm length).
I have a rim with 36 holes and corresponding motor with 18 holes on each flange evenly spaced.
I am struggling between two options for lacing and would appreciate any thoughts you guys have.
The first option is to get some 14G spokes and to do radial lacing.
The second option is to create angles artificially, i.e., to drill holes in the hub motor (between every existing hole)
and then to lace the spokes using the new holes, which will create angles (although it will be close to radial).
This second option follows some instructions found in sheldonbrown.com.
Would be happy to hear your thoughts or any ideas I haven't thought about.
Thanks
I trying to build my first ebike and got stuck at the spoke lacing part.
Have been trying to lace a relatively large rear hub motor to a 20" rim.
I read that it is important to lace the spokes with some angle toward the rim, especially with rear hubs, due to the torque applied.
It seems that it is not possible to make any crosses (even not a single cross) with this large hub and small rim because there are sharp angles (the spokes are around 85mm length).
I have a rim with 36 holes and corresponding motor with 18 holes on each flange evenly spaced.
I am struggling between two options for lacing and would appreciate any thoughts you guys have.
The first option is to get some 14G spokes and to do radial lacing.
The second option is to create angles artificially, i.e., to drill holes in the hub motor (between every existing hole)
and then to lace the spokes using the new holes, which will create angles (although it will be close to radial).
This second option follows some instructions found in sheldonbrown.com.
Would be happy to hear your thoughts or any ideas I haven't thought about.
Thanks
thundercamel
10 kW
I always figured if I ever motorized a 20" wheel, I'd do radial spokes with no cross like this: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=94721
For a 20-inch size of bicycle wheel, I'd prefer a one-cross on a 16-inch moped rim (same actual size, but has angled nipple holes), but...nothing wrong with a radial-laced bicycle rim...
thundercamel said:I always figured if I ever motorized a 20" wheel, I'd do radial spokes with no cross like this: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=94721
Thanks! In the picture the motor has holes which are not evenly spaced so there are some angles at the spokes.
I guess it’s similar to the “drilling holes I in the motor” idea..
https://www.electricbike.com/moped-rims-tires-hubmotors/
Thanks again, to the many ES members who contributed data and pics for this article. It has been read many thousands of times...
Thanks again, to the many ES members who contributed data and pics for this article. It has been read many thousands of times...
The Toecutter
100 kW
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
- Messages
- 1,312
I have a wheel build stand that is scheduled to arrive sometime late this month.
I'm going to try my hand at wheel building. I did some searching for parts and multiple searches looking for answers to questions I have about said parts and could not find answers.
My plan is to use Mitas MC2 16x2.25 tires for an upgrade to my KMX-framed electric velomobile. I need a rim that will fit this tire, and insist on using this tire due to its low rolling resistance, in order to keep the trike pedalable to decent speeds with the motor disabled. Does that mean I need a 16x2.25" rim to fit a 16x2.25 moped tire? Such a rim looks awfully wide for that specified tire size, especially considering that this same tire will fit a much more narrow double-walled 20" bicycle wheel.
https://www.treatland.tv/sava-MC2-moped-tire-p/sava-mc2-16x2.25-tire.htm
I plan not to go tubeless:
https://myronsmopeds.com/category/wheel/tires/
I'll need to get the rims in my possession in order to take measurements to size the spokes, but I do not yet know what rims would be of appropriate size for the tires I want to use.
I'm also having difficulty finding DOT rims with 32 spoke holes instead of 36 spoke holes. The KMX hubs have 32 holes and I need a rim that matches that number. evolutiongts built custom wheels for his 10 kW KMX-based Death Trike, but I think photos of his work have been scrubbed from the internet.
I will soon have a 3T wind 1000W Leafbike motor built into a 20" bicycle rim, which will also be upgraded to the same type of rim/tire I use for the front wheels.
I'm looking for the lightest DOT rims I can find that will work for the job, and plan to run 12ga spokes. I'm going to set this thing up to be able to cruise at about 60 mph(with rare bursts to much higher speeds), and have about 7-10 kW peak to the motor.
I'm going to try my hand at wheel building. I did some searching for parts and multiple searches looking for answers to questions I have about said parts and could not find answers.
My plan is to use Mitas MC2 16x2.25 tires for an upgrade to my KMX-framed electric velomobile. I need a rim that will fit this tire, and insist on using this tire due to its low rolling resistance, in order to keep the trike pedalable to decent speeds with the motor disabled. Does that mean I need a 16x2.25" rim to fit a 16x2.25 moped tire? Such a rim looks awfully wide for that specified tire size, especially considering that this same tire will fit a much more narrow double-walled 20" bicycle wheel.
https://www.treatland.tv/sava-MC2-moped-tire-p/sava-mc2-16x2.25-tire.htm
I plan not to go tubeless:
https://myronsmopeds.com/category/wheel/tires/
I'll need to get the rims in my possession in order to take measurements to size the spokes, but I do not yet know what rims would be of appropriate size for the tires I want to use.
I'm also having difficulty finding DOT rims with 32 spoke holes instead of 36 spoke holes. The KMX hubs have 32 holes and I need a rim that matches that number. evolutiongts built custom wheels for his 10 kW KMX-based Death Trike, but I think photos of his work have been scrubbed from the internet.
I will soon have a 3T wind 1000W Leafbike motor built into a 20" bicycle rim, which will also be upgraded to the same type of rim/tire I use for the front wheels.
I'm looking for the lightest DOT rims I can find that will work for the job, and plan to run 12ga spokes. I'm going to set this thing up to be able to cruise at about 60 mph(with rare bursts to much higher speeds), and have about 7-10 kW peak to the motor.
Same here, on my very heavy (hundreds of pounds on the rear wheels!) SB Cruiser trike's 20" rear wheels, using 13/14 single-butted spokes and eyeletted rims with heavy hubmotors.Chalo said:
Only problems I have had were broken motor axles (multiple times) and smashed rims, from unavoidable potholes (no suspension)...but the spokes haven't broken.
aroundqube
10 kW
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2012
- Messages
- 577
New USA source for custom cut 14 ga. Sapium silver stainless steel spokes. 80mm-305mm . Straight gauge only . Powder coated colors will be added . This BMX shop just invested in a new Phil Wood spoke machine. https://porkchopbmx.com/any-length-non-refundable-stainless-steel-j-bend-bicycle-spokes-made-in-usa-14g-2-0mm-non-butted-each/
LewTwo
1 MW
Thank thee :thumb: :thumb:aroundqube said:
Edit Update:
Unfortunately their checkout pages keep blowing up. Does not work with either Amazon-Pay or PayPal.
Unfortunately we do not offer shipping to your country. If however, you *know* we do ship to your country, you have possibly entered some information incorrectly. For instance, you will get this message if you do not enter your full phone number.
They refuse to acknowledge that they could have a problem with their order page.
For spokes, I have had good luck with Danscomp, used them twice. Their phone customer service can provide options that are not on the website...
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
I never found an appropriate spoke tension for a big hub in a 20” wheel and no tension meter fits anyway but in my short experience I’ve had breaking and creaking and it seems worth going tighter and definitely using some kind of thread lock..and then even burly rims end up bulging from big-hit stress at the nipple. A big hub in a little wheel I don’t trust to last long without suspension
ZeroEm
1 MW
You don't have thick spokes do you? 12's or 10's?
Hummina Shadeeba
1 MW
I forget exactly but opted for narrower on advice here
ZeroEm
1 MW
I'm no expert but would think that the nipples should not put thru the rims, they should give. I'm with you on small wheels and large motors. Look up Chalo's thread he's running 14's not sure if they are single butted and radial, no crosses but don't think he does curb jumping. You may not but them pot holes at speed are not much different.
I will look, there are threads that talk about tighten until it starts popping. I don't have anything to tension with but have been lucky. I worry mine are on the slack side.
I will look, there are threads that talk about tighten until it starts popping. I don't have anything to tension with but have been lucky. I worry mine are on the slack side.
LewTwo
1 MW
I ordered what I needed from wheelbuildingparts.comspinningmagnets said:
Paid a bit more but I ordered "Sapin" stainless spokes and brass nipples
To be honest, I should say "I ordered what I think I needed".
Will not really know until I start lacing the first rim
Chalo
100 TW
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Works fine for me for years now, no maintenance and no problems. 14ga spokes, about 65mm long.
You only have to match a sturdy rim to relatively thin spokes with lots of tension. Then no worries.
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