Winter Riding "Often or Not" Is it safe?

[edventure]

found the thread if anyone wants to see the bruise again. I hope it's enough of a reminder for me to stay upright this year.

That's one nasty bruise and is exactly why I purchased the studded tires. Lucky it wasn't your face. Ouch!

 

[edventure]

unless you've tried good studs (like the marathon schwalbe winter), you can't imagine the traction.

did you see how fast i was riding on ice?

just walking on that stuff with boots was treacherous!

you don't have to ride fast either... but for me, riding to work on ice w/ studs is safer than walking 5 blocks to the metro in boots...

I saw how fast you're riding and was impressed. It also makes me feel a bit more comfortable that the studs were the way to go and I'm not a complete nut case for thinking this makes sense. I don't need to ride that fast if its that icy, but its good to know if I hit an ice patch its likely the bike will stat upright. Not sure why, but I feel like I need to prove to everyone it is not just for summer riding. I am not selling the damn thing, but it almost seems that way.

The salt damage is insane. Luckily they don't use as much salt out here, instead they use a type of gravel that breaks a lot of car windshields.

Thanks for the pics and posting the video.

Ed

 

[biohazardman]

Been riding nearly everyday for three years now. Lots of rain here but not much in the way of ice and snow. Last time I rode in the snow, with my road tires, I crashed bad at near 25MPH. I was down in an instant and did the superman type of belly slide with my arms out in front for about fifteen feet. Several inches of snow kept the abrasion level at near zero but it took three months for my arms to heal up from that one. I used to just ride my pedal bike, with big knobby tires, if it snowed think I will stick to that from now on. Really not worth buying specialty tires to use a few days a year.

Sorry I have been a bit slow responding to everyones feedback. Busy as always, "like everyone". I have already ordered and just received my studded tires today, attached a photo. I am hoping to install them this weekend sometime, although a may not need to since they are calling for high 50s to low 60s all next week. That's Denver for you, but thats why I need to be prepared because it can change literally within an hour. Sorry to here about your meeting with the ground, it sounds painful. This is why I purchased my self a dirt bike style helmet since I have a little more than 40 miles per day there is plenty of opportunity for meetings with the ground. It's because of this distance that using a pedal bike would not be an option, but thanks for the feedback. Not sure why my photo, "no matter how I orient it" keeps displaying upside down?? Guess it doesn't matter, its not a great shot anyway.

Nice tires Now you can ride like a madman through the nastiest of winters. ;^) Have fun be safe.

 

[Eskimo]

I got a set of suomi w240 tires towards the end of the season last year and put only maybe 200 miles on them. The tires work great, make it possible to go out.

Good to hear. I am bit impressed those have found their way that well around the globe.
They are made by the small factory few miles away from Russian border up north in Lieksa.
I would maybe do some winter riding, but have to make my throttle/controller working again.

 

[scotticeberg]

A singlespeed fat bike with a mac hub and studded tires could be a go anywhere ebike during winter. They even make full suspension fat bikes. If you're just rocking a normal ebike go with studded tires. Invest in winter cycling clothing. It can get expensive quickly.

Salt is your enemy. As great as studs are in ice and snow they can be dangerous on dry pavement. Be careful on the corners. Expect to lose studs. More if you ride on aforementioned dry pavement.

 

[GCinDC]

fat tires with studs would be pretty awesome, but skinny studded tires are very effective in snow 6" or less, and slush and ice. they may be better at splitting the snow to get traction on the pavement, whereas the fat tires ride on top of the stuff.

i can't remember where i researched the tires, but since it's a PIA to change tires every time it snows, i needed a tire that worked well on pavement. i chose the schwalbe marathon winter and while skinny, was very impressed at how long they've lasted. i rode it all season a couple years ago - last year we got no snow - and it's still in great shape. only lost a couple studs.

of course the studs aren't as sharp and vicious as they first were. check out this vid!:
[youtube]HrNzxPp40Jg[/youtube]

 

[chrisvw]

My lower limit has always been 20 degrees F (for a 10 mile each way commute). My hands, feet and ears can't take it any longer than that. The Barmitts did help my hands tremendously. (Also called pogies). I swear by them. My feet are too big for any of the bike shop shoe covers, so I've had to buy neoprene and make my own (or more correctly, my wife has been kind enough to make mine). I keep to the bike trails a lot more in winter as they are quick to brush them off here and you aren't worrying about cars.

 

[LSBW]

And this is how it's done. In Russia

 

[GCinDC]

snow and ice family fun...
[youtube]e3UsPTa3xAs[/youtube]

[youtube]yIrutg3TT5Y[/youtube]

 

[Joppo]

i love that video with the kids, gonna do that myself with kiddo one day

 

[Wheazel]

I ride the bike all winter here in mid-sweden. It starts to get challenging to wear the "right amount" of clothes under -20Celcius, but before that its comfortable.
I do not use an ebike during winter currently. Just an old mtb with Suomityres Hakka 300.
Great wintertyres in my opinion! High roll resistance but I can live with that to stay safer.

To add ive had some nasty crashes with other worn spiketyres of lesser quality over the past years. I guess you learn from the mistakes...

 

[gogo]

snow and ice family fun...

[youtube]yIrutg3TT5Y[/youtube]

Those kids seem quite eager for their turn.

As seen in this video, the four-point riding technique is how I rode a winter on a moped without ever going down. If I was going too fast I'd do a 360 and then ride out of it with reduced speed. I did lots of 'three-point' riding partially sideways in order to steer with my rear wheel on crowned roads. Makes you feel like Kenny Roberts on an oval dirt track.

You can't pedal the four-point, so people equate [bicycling + ice = crash]. You can't four-point a motorcycle because of the rear brake pedal and shifter, so people equate [motorcycle + ice = crash]. The four-point can only be done with a lightweight 2-wheeler that has the brakes and throttle hand-controlled, as with a moped or electric bicycle.

Riding with two feet down on streets nobody else is willing to brave is like having the ski park to yourself. I've experienced both and they're awesome!

 

[Lebowski]

And this is how it's done. In Russia

Why, in my minds eye, am I seeing that rear wheel kick up a whole bunch of snow into the childrens faces ?

 

[GCinDC]

As seen in this video, the four-point riding technique is how I rode a winter on a moped without ever going down.

yeah, my studs were a bit worn down. if new, i might not have needed to do that, tho the weight of the sled rider might have brought me down too! in the 2nd to last scene when i went fast, my feet were on the pedals...

depending on your studs, you can be more aggressive:

w/o studs, 4 point is nec on ice for sure!

 

[doctorGONZO]

I started riding motorcycles and cars as soon as I was legal age of 16. I am now a ripe old 71 and have driven close to a half million miles.

I have safely driven cars on ice so slick that I had great difficulty walking on the stuff. The main trick is to drive slow ENOUGH. Even when that means 5MPH. Or slower. And MAKE NO SUDDEN MOVES that are too sudden and make the car lose traction.

In my wild and crazy days of youth I rode motorcycles on ice that was too slick to easily walk on. I know whats happnin with ice and 2 wheels.

So, an astute biker might be riding on studs and extended legs and feet, and might be pretty much in control of his situation. BUT the driver of every car around him is in a very delicate situation. Any sudden unexpected move by anything near him could panic him and cause him to brake or swerve and lose all traction. And his sliding car could have gotten lined up to squash you flat against that parked car or brick wall on your other side.

Most drivers are not as good as me in my youth or as Mark Martin now. Most drivers around you on ice have really very little control of their car if something, such as a bike, makes a sudden move making them panic and lose traction. And some good drivers are so disciplined that if you do swerve into their path, they will not try to brake because then they might go out of control and kill more people than one more biker, so they slam into you.

Think about it and make your choice. You may be such a good rider you CAN ride on junk so slick you cant easily walk on it. But unless you have magic powers you cant survive being squashed by a panicked car driver sliding completely out of control.

 

[Joppo]

I started riding motorcycles and cars as soon as I was legal age of 16. I am now a ripe old 71 and have driven close to a half million miles.

I have safely driven cars on ice so slick that I had great difficulty walking on the stuff. The main trick is to drive slow ENOUGH. Even when that means 5MPH. Or slower. And MAKE NO SUDDEN MOVES that are too sudden and make the car lose traction.

In my wild and crazy days of youth I rode motorcycles on ice that was too slick to easily walk on. I know whats happnin with ice and 2 wheels.

So, an astute biker might be riding on studs and extended legs and feet, and might be pretty much in control of his situation. BUT the driver of every car around him is in a very delicate situation. Any sudden unexpected move by anything near him could panic him and cause him to brake or swerve and lose all traction. And his sliding car could have gotten lined up to squash you flat against that parked car or brick wall on your other side.

Most drivers are not as good as me in my youth or as Mark Martin now. Most drivers around you on ice have really very little control of their car if something, such as a bike, makes a sudden move making them panic and lose traction. And some good drivers are so disciplined that if you do swerve into their path, they will not try to brake because then they might go out of control and kill more people than one more biker, so they slam into you.

Think about it and make your choice. You may be such a good rider you CAN ride on junk so slick you cant easily walk on it. But unless you have magic powers you cant survive being squashed by a panicked car driver sliding completely out of control.

I understand your thinking but I was to take your advice and not ride in winter I would only have about 4-5 months every year I could use my e-bike, I got most fun in the winter whit my e bike. Sideways trough corners at high speed, jumping on the hard snow, riding in blizzards and lets not forget the cool sound of the studs when your running on ice I have so much fun, love it

Yes there are a lot of crazy stupid drivers out there, but I always respect the Car even if I got the right to ride in the middle of the road or something like that. I'll always let the car do what it want to do, use common sense and you'll be fine!
It's not fun to get hit, done that. (And it was summer)

 

[alsmith]

I must have looked at the picture of how it's done in Russia a dozen times and just noticed the front wheel isn't a wheel.

 

[dannyboyohyeah]

That video that GCinDC posted says it all for me. I'm getting studded tires asap. I ride in all but the worst weather, which includes a good bit've snow this year. A couple've evenings, conditions worstened while I was out (all the slush turned to ice as it got cold)...and I got off and pushed. Not interested in any more broken bones. Past 37yrs in Hawaii and California, so this is new to me. Good post.

 

[GCinDC]

w/ only a studded tire on the front and my MC tire on the back, i had a hard time staying up on the very uneven frozen packed snow the other day:
[youtube]jjtEeOofoTc[/youtube]
but it was sooo fun, and i was practically the only one on the road... beats taking the metro!

and at the end of a warm day yesterday, i could cut through the snow like butter:
[youtube]F6Fr8bmcuwM[/youtube]

 

[Kingfish]

I've had one chance this year to use the studded tires in snow:

We had a snowfall in January that put down 2-3 inches of fluff that hung about for a day in Redmond. My 2WD has the Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro with 361 studs (26x2.35) on the front, and Panaracer Fire FR (Black wall; 24x2.4) knobby on the rear. This ebike weighs about 111 lbs and can deliver up to 2 hp per wheel. At 40 mph I could just start to feel the back end get a little squirrely - and that speed was plenty fast enough for me in the city; way faster than vehicle traffic during snowy conditions. Stopping ability was not compromised, though with studs & knobbies turning and stopping need a bit more care to execute.

Alas - I was in China when Redmond got a 5-inch dump last weekend. That would have been a fun test for sure

Overall - I designed my 2WD for EXACTLY these types of conditions and terrain, and as far as I am concerned, it did the job well enough and was quite good fun. The downside: Battery doesn't last too long... but that is expected. All my cycling gear worked as well as it could, including the full-face helmet with the Fog-City visor liner; still had some fogging - but it was manageable.

Waiting for the next dusting!
Woo hoo! KF

 

[Joseph C.]

Snow is relatively rare here but icy roads are quite frequent.

From the end of November onwards I switch to Schwalbe Marathon Winters and at the start of spring (end of February) they are swapped for summer tyres. One hidden patch of black ice on the road and you could end up for several weeks in hospital.

I use the Veltop canopy all year round. In winter I add ski gloves and glove liners to the hands; a hat to the head; a pulled-up neck warmer to the face and thermal underwear to the legs. If the temperature drops below zero I then add thermal trousers to the mix and of course use suitable layers of clothing.

Throughout the season I wear the same Gore-tex jacket and will soon be purchasing mud flaps to stop my feet from annoyingly getting wet through water from the front wheel.

That's my recipe.

 

[Joppo]

[youtube]Jbzi0sg_bAk[/youtube]

 

[GCinDC]

awesome, joppo. that looks like a lot of fun, and is a great demo of traction on ice w/ studs.

 

[DrkAngel]

My Homemade Medley

Top picture - 3/8" screws for the inner rows and 1/2" screws for the outer rows seems to be perfect ... for these tires and my needs.

Studded Tires?

 

[mclark999]

[Sorry I have been a bit slow responding to everyones feedback. Busy as always, "like everyone". I have already ordered and just received my studded tires today, attached a photo. I am hoping to install them this weekend sometime, although a may not need to since they are calling for high 50s to low 60s all next week. That's Denver for you, but thats why I need to be prepared because it can change literally within an hour. Sorry to here about your meeting with the ground, it sounds painful. This is why I purchased my self a dirt bike style helmet since I have a little more than 40 miles per day there is plenty of opportunity for meetings with the ground. It's because of this distance that using a pedal bike would not be an option, but thanks for the feedback. Not sure why my photo, "no matter how I orient it" keeps displaying upside down?? Guess it doesn't matter, its not a great shot anyway.

How'd it work out for you? I live in Denver, too and want to commute via the Platte trail over the winter. Was thinking I'd buy a trike for that, but two studded winter tires would be a lot cheaper. I won't ride on snow days, but since snow here melts off so fast want to ride the rest of the winter. Mostly worried about the ice in the shady spots that sticks around all winter.